question about DST - NTP

This is a discussion on question about DST - NTP ; Hi list, Our Goverment is implementing DST. DST starts on : on Sunday, June 1, 2008 at 12:01 (this is the first time we are going for DST) *So we have to forward our clock by one hour.* In this ...

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  1. question about DST

    Hi list,

    Our Goverment is implementing DST. DST starts on : on Sunday, June 1, 2008
    at 12:01 (this is the first time we are going for DST)

    *So we have to forward our clock by one hour.*


    In this regards I have few questions how to make ready our ntp server which
    is serving all our machine

    All machines using local time not UTC.

    1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?

    1.1. If not do I have to adjust all machine clocks manually?

    As i said before its the first time that we are going for DST here in our
    country and this is totally new thing for me.

    Any help in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

    Note: please reply to me direct as i am not subscribe to mailing list.


    Regards.

  2. Re: question about DST

    Asrai khn wrote:
    > Hi list,
    >
    > Our Goverment is implementing DST. DST starts on : on Sunday, June 1, 2008
    > at 12:01 (this is the first time we are going for DST)
    >
    > *So we have to forward our clock by one hour.*


    NTP knows nothing of time zones or seasonal changes.

    Your OS vendor should have a patch for you to apply that will let your OS
    display the correct local time which is an offset from UTC.

    --
    Peter Laws / N5UWY
    National Weather Center / Network Operations Center
    University of Oklahoma Information Technology
    plaws@ou.edu
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Feedback? Contact my director, Craig Cochell, craigc@ou.edu. Thank you!

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  3. Re: question about DST

    asraikhn@gmail.com (Asrai khn) writes:

    >Hi list,


    >Our Goverment is implementing DST. DST starts on : on Sunday, June 1, 2008
    >at 12:01 (this is the first time we are going for DST)


    >*So we have to forward our clock by one hour.*



    >In this regards I have few questions how to make ready our ntp server which
    >is serving all our machine


    >All machines using local time not UTC.


    >1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    >other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?


    No. NTP knows nothing about DST. It operates in UTC.



    >1.1. If not do I have to adjust all machine clocks manually?



    What operating system?

    >As i said before its the first time that we are going for DST here in our
    >country and this is totally new thing for me.


    >Any help in this regard will be greatly appreciated.


    >Note: please reply to me direct as i am not subscribe to mailing list.


    It is not a mailing list, it is a news group. Keep coming back for
    information.




    >Regards.


  4. Re: question about DST

    Unruh wrote:
    >
    > It is not a mailing list, it is a news group. Keep coming back for
    > information.


    You are right, in that the definitive forum is
    news:comp.protocols.time.ntp, however there is a mailing list gatewayed
    to it, and many people are unaware of its true nature.

  5. Re: question about DST

    > From: Unruh
    > Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 20:10:19 GMT
    > Sender: questions-bounces+oberman=es.net@lists.ntp.org
    >
    >
    > asraikhn@gmail.com (Asrai khn) writes:
    >
    > >Note: please reply to me direct as i am not subscribe to mailing list.

    >
    > It is not a mailing list, it is a news group. Keep coming back for
    > information.


    No. It is both a mailing list and a news group. A great many of us have
    abandoned usenet and read this via the mail list. I assume Asrai sent
    his question to the mail list. You read it via the news group. Since you
    ignored his request to copy him, he will never see your response of:

    > 1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    > other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?


    No. NTP knows nothing about DST. It operates in UTC.



    > 1.1. If not do I have to adjust all machine clocks manually?



    What operating system?

    --
    R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
    Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
    Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
    E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634
    Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751

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  6. Re: question about DST

    Asrai khn wrote:
    > Hi list,
    >
    > Our Goverment is implementing DST. DST starts on : on Sunday, June 1, 2008
    > at 12:01 (this is the first time we are going for DST)
    >
    > *So we have to forward our clock by one hour.*
    >
    >
    > In this regards I have few questions how to make ready our ntp server which
    > is serving all our machine
    >
    > All machines using local time not UTC.
    >
    > 1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    > other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?


    No. NTP does not concern itself with time zones or issues of daylight
    vs. standard time! NTP deals ONLY in UTC! Displaying local time is the
    responsibility of the Operating System. You generally have to configure
    something in the O/S to tell it what time zone you wish to use for the
    display of time and what the current rules for changing from standard to
    DST and back are.

    (from the man page for date)
    " -u Display (or set) the date in Greenwich Mean Time
    (GMT-universal time), bypassing the normal conversion
    to (or from) local time."

    A single machine might display different times for users in different
    time zones!

  7. Re: question about DST

    Asrai khn wrote:
    >
    > In this regards I have few questions how to make ready our ntp server which
    > is serving all our machine


    There is nothing that you can do to NTP, as it does not deal with
    anything but UTC.

    >
    > All machines using local time not UTC.
    >
    > 1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    > other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?


    No.

    >
    > 1.1. If not do I have to adjust all machine clocks manually?


    Except for MS-DOS, you should be able to update them all in advance of
    the change, although, in some cases, you may need to reboot. I wrote
    more detail about this in reply to a similar question very recently, so
    please read the archives.

    In the mean time, you may find
    helpful.

    Unfortunately, you don't identify your country, and your name is not one
    whose language I recognize, so I cannot, easily, check that the Olson
    timezone data has been updated, or whether Microsoft have issued an
    official update. In both cases, you can update the data yourself,
    although, if the Olson data is not correct, they should be informed.

    As others have hinted, if you are paying for support for any OS, the
    vendor should be providing the necessary procedures.

  8. Re: question about DST

    On Fri, 30 May 2008, Kevin Oberman wrote:

    >> From: Unruh
    >> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 20:10:19 GMT
    >> Sender: questions-bounces+oberman=es.net@lists.ntp.org
    >>
    >>
    >> asraikhn@gmail.com (Asrai khn) writes:
    >>
    >>> Note: please reply to me direct as i am not subscribe to mailing list.

    >>
    >> It is not a mailing list, it is a news group. Keep coming back for
    >> information.

    >
    > No. It is both a mailing list and a news group. A great many of us have
    > abandoned usenet and read this via the mail list. I assume Asrai sent
    > his question to the mail list. You read it via the news group. Since you
    > ignored his request to copy him, he will never see your response of:


    Ah, ok. But then he should subscribe to the mailing list while he is asking
    questions of the list or the newgroup. Ie, expecting people to privately
    email him answers to questions which he asks in public is not a good idea.
    It deprives others of the benefit of the answers ( or of the benefit of
    having the mistakes in the answers pointed out by other more knowledgeable
    people.)
    >
    >> 1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    >> other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?

    >
    > No. NTP knows nothing about DST. It operates in UTC.
    >
    >
    >
    >> 1.1. If not do I have to adjust all machine clocks manually?

    >
    >
    > What operating system?


    Just to amplify, Under Linux, BSD and others, the crucial file in something
    called
    tzdata.
    ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata*.gz
    which can be downloaded from the web. In that file are listed all the known
    time regions together with their DST rules. They update it about 10 times a year, every time they become aware of some new time zone information from somewhere in the world. Compiling it with zic, installing it,
    and pointing your system to the appropriate file is all you need. That will
    handle all changes like DST automatically with no intervention needed.

    Under Windows, I do not believe any such structure exists, and you have to
    persuade Microsoft to publish a patch for your system which contains the
    info. But I may be wrong. Under Mac, I think that they also use the tzdata
    database to handle time, but again I could be wrong.
    Thus his telling us what OS he uses would enable more helpful answers to
    be given.


    >


  9. Re: question about DST

    Bill Unruh wrote:

    > Ah, ok. But then he should subscribe to the mailing list while he is asking
    > questions of the list or the newgroup. Ie, expecting people to privately


    Definitely.


    > ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata*.gz
    > which can be downloaded from the web. In that file are listed all the known


    "known" may be the issue. Unless the country is Morocco, in which case
    it is untrue that they have never had DST changes (although the last one
    was quite possibly before the questioner was born (1978), there is no
    trace of a matching rule in asia or africa, the two files that have
    changed recently.

    If it is is Morocco, Olson believes that the change is at 00:00:00 UTC,
    not at 12:01:00, or even 00:01:00 UTC. If it is actually one of these,
    Olson needs an urgent update - it may be too late to not do it
    retrospectively. (The Olson data indicates a change to DST at 12:00:00
    UTC 1967, so it is certainly possible that the 12:01 was in 24 hour
    format and doesn't mean 12:01 am.)

    I think Morocco is quite likely.

    >
    > Under Windows, I do not believe any such structure exists, and you have to
    > persuade Microsoft to publish a patch for your system which contains the


    The information is held in the registry, or similar. The Morroco (and
    Pakistan) changes were too late for Microsoft, but there is a, possibly
    unofficial, advisory

    pointing to the manual procedure.

  10. Re: question about DST

    On 2008-05-30, Kevin Oberman wrote:

    > Unruh wrote:
    >
    >> asraikhn@gmail.com (Asrai khn) writes:
    >>
    >>> Note: please reply to me direct as i am not subscribe to mailing
    >>> list.

    >>
    >> It is not a mailing list, it is a news group. Keep coming back for
    >> information.

    >
    > No. It is both a mailing list and a news group. A great many of us
    > have abandoned usenet and read this via the mail list. I assume Asrai
    > sent his question to the mail list. You read it via the news group.
    > Since you ignored his request to copy him, he will never see your
    > response of:


    Actually, one _must_ be subscribed to the mailing-list to post to it.
    And subscribers automatically receive a copy of all list traffic.

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  11. Re: question about DST

    Bill Unruh wrote:
    []
    > Just to amplify, Under Linux, BSD and others, the crucial file in
    > something
    > called
    > tzdata.
    > ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata*.gz
    > which can be downloaded from the web. In that file are listed all the
    > known
    > time regions together with their DST rules. They update it about 10
    > times a year, every time they become aware of some new time zone
    > information from somewhere in the world. Compiling it with zic,
    > installing it, and pointing your system to the appropriate file is
    > all you need. That will
    > handle all changes like DST automatically with no intervention needed.
    >
    > Under Windows, I do not believe any such structure exists, and you
    > have to
    > persuade Microsoft to publish a patch for your system which contains
    > the
    > info. But I may be wrong. Under Mac, I think that they also use the
    > tzdata
    > database to handle time, but again I could be wrong.
    > Thus his telling us what OS he uses would enable more helpful answers
    > to
    > be given.


    Bill,

    Under Windows, the equivalent information is held in the registry. There
    is a Time Zone Editor available to allow you to define the details of your
    time zone, if needed.

    http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...52f/TZEDIT.exe

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229

    There is no need to "wait for Microsoft to publish a patch....."

    Cheers,
    David



  12. Re: question about DST

    Its mix of OS Linux, Unix (sun, freebsd) and yes we also have some hardware
    of Lucent (MaxTNT) that running thers OS TAOS,

    As i said we dont' have this DST before and its first time government is
    implementing it (coz of sever power crises)

    So you thinks its not good practice to change system clock with 'date'
    command? by forwarding it by one hour.

    I thinks to change it manually will also requires me to disable ntp sync
    otherwise machine will correct its time again.

    regards.

    On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Kevin Oberman wrote:

    > > From: Unruh
    > > Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 20:10:19 GMT
    > > Sender: questions-bounces+oberman=es.net@lists.ntp.org
    > >
    > >
    > > asraikhn@gmail.com (Asrai khn) writes:
    > >
    > > >Note: please reply to me direct as i am not subscribe to mailing list.

    > >
    > > It is not a mailing list, it is a news group. Keep coming back for
    > > information.

    >
    > No. It is both a mailing list and a news group. A great many of us have
    > abandoned usenet and read this via the mail list. I assume Asrai sent
    > his question to the mail list. You read it via the news group. Since you
    > ignored his request to copy him, he will never see your response of:
    >
    > > 1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    > > other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?

    >
    > No. NTP knows nothing about DST. It operates in UTC.
    >
    >
    >
    > > 1.1. If not do I have to adjust all machine clocks manually?

    >
    >
    > What operating system?
    >
    > --
    > R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
    > Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
    > Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
    > E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634
    > Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751
    >


  13. Re: question about DST

    On May 31, 1:52 am, David Woolley
    wrote:
    > Asrai khn wrote:
    >
    > > In this regards I have few questions how to make ready our ntp server which
    > > is serving all our machine

    >
    > There is nothing that you can do to NTP, as it does not deal with
    > anything but UTC.
    >
    >
    >
    > > All machines using local time not UTC.

    >
    > > 1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    > > other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?

    >
    > No.
    >
    >
    >
    > > 1.1. If not do I have to adjust all machine clocks manually?

    >
    > Except for MS-DOS, you should be able to update them all in advance of
    > the change, although, in some cases, you may need to reboot. I wrote
    > more detail about this in reply to a similar question very recently, so
    > please read the archives.
    >
    > In the mean time, you may find
    > helpful.
    >
    > Unfortunately, you don't identify your country, and your name is not one
    > whose language I recognize, so I cannot, easily, check that the Olson
    > timezone data has been updated, or whether Microsoft have issued an
    > official update. In both cases, you can update the data yourself,
    > although, if the Olson data is not correct, they should be informed.
    >
    > As others have hinted, if you are paying for support for any OS, the
    > vendor should be providing the necessary procedures.


    Pakistan.

  14. Re: question about DST

    On May 31, 3:17 am, David Woolley
    wrote:
    > Bill Unruh wrote:
    > > Ah, ok. But then he should subscribe to the mailing list while he is asking
    > > questions of the list or the newgroup. Ie, expecting people to privately

    >
    > Definitely.
    >
    > >ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata*.gz
    > > which can be downloaded from the web. In that file are listed all the known

    >
    > "known" may be the issue. Unless the country is Morocco, in which case
    > it is untrue that they have never had DST changes (although the last one
    > was quite possibly before the questioner was born (1978), there is no
    > trace of a matching rule in asia or africa, the two files that have
    > changed recently.
    >
    > If it is is Morocco, Olson believes that the change is at 00:00:00 UTC,
    > not at 12:01:00, or even 00:01:00 UTC. If it is actually one of these,
    > Olson needs an urgent update - it may be too late to not do it
    > retrospectively. (The Olson data indicates a change to DST at 12:00:00
    > UTC 1967, so it is certainly possible that the 12:01 was in 24 hour
    > format and doesn't mean 12:01 am.)
    >
    > I think Morocco is quite likely.
    >
    >
    >
    > > Under Windows, I do not believe any such structure exists, and you have to
    > > persuade Microsoft to publish a patch for your system which contains the

    >
    > The information is held in the registry, or similar. The Morroco (and
    > Pakistan) changes were too late for Microsoft, but there is a, possibly
    > unofficial, advisory
    >
    > pointing to the manual procedure.


    Pakistan Government will change from GMT +5:00 to GMT +6:00 June 1,
    2008, at 12 midnight (local time).

    So switching from +5:00 to +6:00 GMT is what i have to do at OS side?


  15. Re: question about DST

    asraikhn@gmail.com wrote:

    >
    > Pakistan.


    The Olson data indicates that there was a previous use of DST in 2002.
    If that didn't happen, it needs fixing to give correct historic information.

    It has had data for 2008 since May 19th, although it looks like they
    could do with more official information; if the transition time is
    actually 00:01:00 local wall clock time, rather than 00:00:00 please
    submit a correction, and if possible include a copy of, or a link to, an
    official document - English would be better, but I'm sure they would be
    able to find someone who can read Urdu (the submission information is at
    the top of the relevant file (asia) - it doesn't require supporting
    documents, but I can't see that they will do any harm:

    =========================================
    # From Arthur David Olson (2008-05-19):
    # XXX--midnight transitions is a guess; 2008 only is a guess.

    # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE
    LETTER/S
    Rule Pakistan 2002 only - Apr Sun>=2 0:01 1:00 S
    Rule Pakistan 2002 only - Oct Sun>=2 0:01 0 -
    Rule Pakistan 2008 only - Jun 1 0:00 1:00 S
    Rule Pakistan 2008 only - Sep 1 0:00 0 -
    =========================================
    "man zic", on a system that supports Olson data, tells you how to
    interpret the files and how to create new binary versions.

    The Microsoft article also gives information for manually updating
    Windows for the Pakistan change. I believe they are using 00:00:00 as
    the transition time.

    It looks like neither Pakistan nor Morocco has considered computer
    useres in the timing of the announcement of the DST legislation.

  16. Re: question about DST

    asraikhn@gmail.com wrote:

    > Pakistan Government will change from GMT +5:00 to GMT +6:00 June 1,
    > 2008, at 12 midnight (local time).
    >
    > So switching from +5:00 to +6:00 GMT is what i have to do at OS side?
    >


    Assuming all your systems are Windows NT family, or Olson (Linux and
    modern Unixes) based, and were previously correctly configured for the
    Pakistan timezone, rather than explicitly set to five hours ahead of
    GMT, you need to perform the Windows procedures, I referenced, on the
    Windows systems. The Windows changes will repeat at the same change
    each year, so will need undoing, after September, if that is not
    appropriate.

    For the Olson systems, you need to download the current data (URLs have
    already been given) and run zic on them. You may need to override the
    directory, and, if you do it on a live system, it may be advisable to
    build in a temporary directory and move them to the correct place, as I
    don't know zic updates the files in a safe way. Some systems soft link
    ...../etc/localtime to the the correct timezone data file, but others
    hard link or copy that file, and you should make sure that you actually
    end up with the right file. The file you should actually be using is
    ..../zoneinfo/Asia/Karachi; if you weren't using that before, you may
    need to compensate for any side effects of your old solution. Double
    check that this file has the same contents as
    ..../zoneinfo/posix/Asia/Karachi. If you really needed the "right"
    versions, you ought already do know about them.

    The current Olson data will not affect subsequent years, so you will
    need new data for next year. If you actually know that the legislation
    covers several years, you can update the Olson data to reflect this,
    before installing. Please then submit the correction.

    Olson changes don't need a reboot. I believe the same is true for
    Windows, but could be wrong.

    Some older Unix systems set an environment variable, on boot, that
    encodes the rules. This can be overriden by user login scripts, or in
    the master login script. Some versions of this will be able to encode
    the Pakistan transition times, but it is possible that some cannot.
    This change will repeat every year, like on Windows. You will probably
    need to reboot systems after doing this.

    By my reckoning you have about 7 hours to do the above, and get a
    seamless transition.

    Some very old Unix systems have the, obsolete, US rules hard coded, and
    you will need to change an environment variable setting as close as
    possible to the transition and reboot, also close to the transition.

  17. Re: question about DST

    On Sat, 31 May 2008, Asrai khn wrote:

    > Its mix of OS Linux, Unix (sun, freebsd) and yes we also have some hardware
    > of Lucent (MaxTNT) that running thers OS TAOS,
    >
    > As i said we dont' have this DST before and its first time government is
    > implementing it (coz of sever power crises)


    Which country?

    >
    > So you thinks its not good practice to change system clock with 'date'
    > command? by forwarding it by one hour.


    You can do anything you want. BUt on a linux/Unix system it is all handled
    by the zoneinfo files. Just update your tzdata file and forget about it.

    >
    > I thinks to change it manually will also requires me to disable ntp sync
    > otherwise machine will correct its time again.


    Yes. So why do it. Just download the file and install it and be happy.


    >
    > regards.
    >
    > On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Kevin Oberman wrote:
    >
    >>> From: Unruh
    >>> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 20:10:19 GMT
    >>> Sender: questions-bounces+oberman=es.net@lists.ntp.org
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> asraikhn@gmail.com (Asrai khn) writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Note: please reply to me direct as i am not subscribe to mailing list.
    >>>
    >>> It is not a mailing list, it is a news group. Keep coming back for
    >>> information.

    >>
    >> No. It is both a mailing list and a news group. A great many of us have
    >> abandoned usenet and read this via the mail list. I assume Asrai sent
    >> his question to the mail list. You read it via the news group. Since you
    >> ignored his request to copy him, he will never see your response of:
    >>
    >>> 1. Is it possible to adjust only the ntp server for DST thing and let all
    >>> other machines automatically get the new time from ntp server?

    >>
    >> No. NTP knows nothing about DST. It operates in UTC.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> 1.1. If not do I have to adjust all machine clocks manually?

    >>
    >>
    >> What operating system?
    >>
    >> --
    >> R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
    >> Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
    >> Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
    >> E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634
    >> Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751
    >>

    >


    --
    William G. Unruh | Canadian Institute for| Tel: +1(604)822-3273
    Physics&Astronomy | Advanced Research | Fax: +1(604)822-5324
    UBC, Vancouver,BC | Program in Cosmology | unruh@physics.ubc.ca
    Canada V6T 1Z1 | and Gravity | www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/

  18. Re: question about DST

    asraikhn@gmail.com writes:

    >On May 31, 3:17 am, David Woolley
    > wrote:
    >> Bill Unruh wrote:
    >> > Ah, ok. But then he should subscribe to the mailing list while he is asking
    >> > questions of the list or the newgroup. Ie, expecting people to privately

    >>
    >> Definitely.
    >>
    >> >ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata*.gz
    >> > which can be downloaded from the web. In that file are listed all the known

    >>
    >> "known" may be the issue. Unless the country is Morocco, in which case


    He claims to be in Pakistan. The latest tzdata file KNOWS about the change

    #
    Rule Pakistan 2002 only - Apr Sun>=2 0:01 1:00 S
    Rule Pakistan 2002 only - Oct Sun>=2 0:01 0 -
    Rule Pakistan 2008 only - Jun 1 0:00 1:00 S
    Rule Pakistan 2008 only - Sep 1 0:00 0 -
    # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL]
    Zone Asia/Karachi 4:28:12 - LMT 1907
    5:30 - IST 1942 Sep
    5:30 1:00 IST 1945 Oct 15
    5:30 - IST 1951 Sep 30
    5:00 - KART 1971 Mar 26 # Karachi Time
    5:00 Pakistan PK%sT # Pakistan Time


    >So switching from +5:00 to +6:00 GMT is what i have to do at OS side?


    NO. What you have to do is go to that nist site, download the latest tzdata
    file
    tzdata2008c.tar.gz
    to your Linux machine

    untar it
    tar -xzf tzdata2008c.tar.gz
    zic asia
    rm /etc/localtime
    cp /usr/share/zoninfo/Asia/Karachi /etc/localtime

    And you are done.
    You can copy that same file to your other Linux ( and probably unix)
    machines as well, and you are done.

    On Windows follow Moe's suggestion.




  19. Re: question about DST

    David Woolley writes:

    >asraikhn@gmail.com wrote:


    >>
    >> Pakistan.


    >The Olson data indicates that there was a previous use of DST in 2002.
    >If that didn't happen, it needs fixing to give correct historic information.


    >It has had data for 2008 since May 19th, although it looks like they
    >could do with more official information; if the transition time is
    >actually 00:01:00 local wall clock time, rather than 00:00:00 please
    >submit a correction, and if possible include a copy of, or a link to, an
    >official document - English would be better, but I'm sure they would be


    All the web pages state midnight.
    And many also state that DST was used in 2002 but failed to catch on due to
    mass confusion. Announcing a change two weeks before they are to happen
    seems guarenteed to cause mass confusion again.


    >able to find someone who can read Urdu (the submission information is at
    >the top of the relevant file (asia) - it doesn't require supporting
    >documents, but I can't see that they will do any harm:


    >=========================================
    ># From Arthur David Olson (2008-05-19):
    ># XXX--midnight transitions is a guess; 2008 only is a guess.


    ># Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE
    >LETTER/S
    >Rule Pakistan 2002 only - Apr Sun>=2 0:01 1:00 S
    >Rule Pakistan 2002 only - Oct Sun>=2 0:01 0 -
    >Rule Pakistan 2008 only - Jun 1 0:00 1:00 S
    >Rule Pakistan 2008 only - Sep 1 0:00 0 -
    >=========================================
    >"man zic", on a system that supports Olson data, tells you how to
    >interpret the files and how to create new binary versions.


    >The Microsoft article also gives information for manually updating
    >Windows for the Pakistan change. I believe they are using 00:00:00 as
    >the transition time.


    >It looks like neither Pakistan nor Morocco has considered computer
    >useres in the timing of the announcement of the DST legislation.


  20. Re: question about DST

    Bill Unruh wrote:
    > On Sat, 31 May 2008, Asrai khn wrote:


    I didn't see this one on the newsgroup.
    >
    >> Its mix of OS Linux, Unix (sun, freebsd) and yes we also have some hardware
    >> of Lucent (MaxTNT) that running thers OS TAOS,


    Linux and freebsd will use Olson. Sun may or may not, depending on how
    old it is. I have no information on Lucent systems, although, if they
    run NTP one would expect them to have some method of configuring the
    timezone, or it will be designed to run purely on UTC.

    >>
    >> As i said we dont' have this DST before and its first time government is
    >> implementing it (coz of sever power crises)


    The evidence suggests this is the second time, the first being in 2002.

    >
    >> So you thinks its not good practice to change system clock with 'date'
    >> command? by forwarding it by one hour.


    If you are running ntpd, the only reason for changing it manually is to
    get it within 1000s before starting ntpd. Only on MS-DOS based systems,
    of the systems that you are likely to have, do you need to change the clock.
    >
    >> I thinks to change it manually will also requires me to disable ntp sync
    >> otherwise machine will correct its time again.


    If you change the clock by an hour, ntpd will abort. You need to keep
    the clock set to the same time and change the timezone data. If you try
    to restart ntpd, it will either abort or undo the change, depending on
    what options you use.

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