NTP does not reply to IP addresses that start with 69 - NTP

This is a discussion on NTP does not reply to IP addresses that start with 69 - NTP ; Martin Burnicki wrote: > Danny, > > Danny Mayer wrote: >> Ronan Flood wrote: >>> mayer@ntp.isc.org (Danny Mayer) wrote: >>> >>>> 4.1.0 was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. >>> "The code is out there." >>> ...

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Thread: NTP does not reply to IP addresses that start with 69

  1. Re: NTP does not reply to IP addresses that startwith 69

    Martin Burnicki wrote:
    > Danny,
    >
    > Danny Mayer wrote:
    >> Ronan Flood wrote:
    >>> mayer@ntp.isc.org (Danny Mayer) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> 4.1.0 was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
    >>> "The code is out there."
    >>>

    >> That doesn't matter. We only support the current current unless there's
    >> a paid contract to maintain some other version. Dave was concerned about
    >> something that he wants to ensure control of but that's in the recent
    >> versions.

    >
    > I don't think I've read a request where this should be fixed in an older
    > version.
    >
    > The problem in this NG seems to be that some insiders seem to assume all
    > users are running a very recent version of NTP, and I'm pretty sure this is
    > not the case.
    >
    > I think most users run the version which comes with their OS or
    > distribution, and stuck with it unless they stumble across a bug or
    > limitation, in which case it's normally sufficient to point them to the
    > latest version.
    >
    > Martin


    I understand all this. However, with such an old version it's almost
    impossible to figure out what's wrong. In most cases where something
    used to work and is no longer working, it's environmental changes or
    configuration changes. Someone who says that 69/8 addresses don't work
    must have a configuration/environmental issue rather than a code issue
    but without finding the old source code, searching, building and
    deploying it, how is anyone going to know what's wrong?

    Danny

  2. Setting up a NTP Time Server

    Hi all,

    Can someone point me to a good document that
    shows how to setup a Time Server? I have an
    isolated network that cannot get to the Internet
    to sync time. I have Solaris 8,9,10 and Red Hat Linux
    Advanced Server 4 servers as potential time server
    candidates.

    I've never setup a time server so please be gentle
    with my ignorance on this issue.

    In the past I was just cron'ing the ntpdate command
    to query a Windows 2003 server. I kept this Win Server's
    time up-to-date weekly and manually by visually checking the
    time on the Naval Observatory Atomic Clock.

    This Win Server option is no longer an option thus my
    need for the Unix/Linux replacement.

    Thanks for your help and ideas.

    George

  3. Re: NTP does not reply to IP addresses that start with 69

    Danny Mayer wrote:
    > Martin Burnicki wrote:
    >
    >>Danny,
    >>
    >>Danny Mayer wrote:
    >>
    >>>Ronan Flood wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>mayer@ntp.isc.org (Danny Mayer) wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>4.1.0 was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
    >>>>
    >>>>"The code is out there."
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>That doesn't matter. We only support the current current unless there's
    >>>a paid contract to maintain some other version. Dave was concerned about
    >>>something that he wants to ensure control of but that's in the recent
    >>>versions.

    >>
    >>I don't think I've read a request where this should be fixed in an older
    >>version.
    >>
    >>The problem in this NG seems to be that some insiders seem to assume all
    >>users are running a very recent version of NTP, and I'm pretty sure this is
    >>not the case.
    >>
    >>I think most users run the version which comes with their OS or
    >>distribution, and stuck with it unless they stumble across a bug or
    >>limitation, in which case it's normally sufficient to point them to the
    >>latest version.
    >>
    >>Martin

    >
    >
    > I understand all this. However, with such an old version it's almost
    > impossible to figure out what's wrong. In most cases where something
    > used to work and is no longer working, it's environmental changes or
    > configuration changes. Someone who says that 69/8 addresses don't work
    > must have a configuration/environmental issue rather than a code issue
    > but without finding the old source code, searching, building and
    > deploying it, how is anyone going to know what's wrong?
    >
    > Danny


    "Upgrade to the latest version" is the usual and, IMHO, proper response
    to problems in earlier versions. If the problem is truly a bug in a
    prior version, perhaps he can PAY for "prior version support"!

    If the bug is found to exist in the current version, it may be possible
    to "back port" the fix to one or more earlier versions with very
    little effort.

    I don't recall the details of the original complaint but I think the
    first thing the OP should do is to *ping* some known valid address in
    69/8. If that works, the problem may be in ntpd. The problem might
    also be due to a firewall or router blocking port 123 or perhaps even
    the entire 69/8 net!



  4. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    GEORGE.E.SULLIVAN@saic.com (Sullivan, George E.) writes:

    >Hi all,


    >Can someone point me to a good document that
    >shows how to setup a Time Server? I have an
    >isolated network that cannot get to the Internet
    >to sync time. I have Solaris 8,9,10 and Red Hat Linux
    >Advanced Server 4 servers as potential time server
    >candidates.


    So do you have something which can give you the time (Windows is a bad
    idea). A gps (eg for $60 and a bit of soldering you can set up a Garmin
    18LVC gps to give usec accuracy time to the server).



    >I've never setup a time server so please be gentle
    >with my ignorance on this issue.


    >In the past I was just cron'ing the ntpdate command
    >to query a Windows 2003 server. I kept this Win Server's
    >time up-to-date weekly and manually by visually checking the
    >time on the Naval Observatory Atomic Clock.


    Hmm, Use chrony/chronyc. It is set up to allow you to use wristwatch
    setting to set the server. Then you can use eitehr ntp or chrony on the
    other machines to get the time from that server.

    chrony cannot use refclocks ( hardware clocks).



    >This Win Server option is no longer an option thus my
    >need for the Unix/Linux replacement.


    >Thanks for your help and ideas.


    >George


  5. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    George,

    Try http://support.ntp.org/Support/ConfiguringNTP4 .

    There will be a section on local refclocks and orphan mode.
    --
    Harlan Stenn
    http://ntpforum.isc.org - be a member!

  6. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    Unruh wrote:
    > GEORGE.E.SULLIVAN@saic.com (Sullivan, George E.) writes:
    >
    >> Hi all,

    >
    >> Can someone point me to a good document that
    >> shows how to setup a Time Server? I have an
    >> isolated network that cannot get to the Internet
    >> to sync time. I have Solaris 8,9,10 and Red Hat Linux
    >> Advanced Server 4 servers as potential time server
    >> candidates.

    >

    []
    > A gps (eg for $60 and a bit of soldering you can set up a
    > Garmin 18LVC gps to give usec accuracy time to the server).

    []

    Here's a very simple example, George.

    http://www.david-taylor.myby.co.uk/n...SD-GPS-PPS.htm

    Cheers,
    David



  7. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    Harlan Stenn wrote:
    > George,
    >
    > Try http://support.ntp.org/Support/ConfiguringNTP4 .
    >
    > There will be a section on local refclocks and orphan mode.


    Harlan, I think that URL could be wrong. I get:

    "Note: This topic does not exist
    "The topic 'ConfiguringNTP4' you are trying to access does not exist,
    yet."

    Cheers,
    David



  8. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    >Try http://support.ntp.org/Support/ConfiguringNTP4 .
    I got a "This topic does not exist"

    Try http://support.ntp.org/Support/ConfiguringNTP
    (no 4 on the end)


    >There will be a section on local refclocks and orphan mode.


    The orphan mode page is mostly a link to:
    http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp...pt.html#orphan

    That page exists, but the tag doesn't and searching for orphan
    doesn't get any hits on that page.

    google finds this:
    http://www.cis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/h...oc.html#orphan
    It looks good, but I didn't check carefully.

    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


  9. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    "David J Taylor" writes:

    >Unruh wrote:
    >> GEORGE.E.SULLIVAN@saic.com (Sullivan, George E.) writes:
    >>
    >>> Hi all,

    >>
    >>> Can someone point me to a good document that
    >>> shows how to setup a Time Server? I have an
    >>> isolated network that cannot get to the Internet
    >>> to sync time. I have Solaris 8,9,10 and Red Hat Linux
    >>> Advanced Server 4 servers as potential time server
    >>> candidates.

    >>

    >[]
    >> A gps (eg for $60 and a bit of soldering you can set up a
    >> Garmin 18LVC gps to give usec accuracy time to the server).

    >[]


    >Here's a very simple example, George.


    > http://www.david-taylor.myby.co.uk/n...SD-GPS-PPS.htm


    It is also straightforward on Linux. (On my Linux, the std dev is less than
    3usec).




  10. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    >Can someone point me to a good document that
    >shows how to setup a Time Server? I have an
    >isolated network that cannot get to the Internet
    >to sync time. I have Solaris 8,9,10 and Red Hat Linux
    >Advanced Server 4 servers as potential time server
    >candidates.


    I don't know of any document that covers this case.
    It does come up occasionally. There might be some
    ideas in the newsgroup archives.

    I think your top level decision is do you want to setup
    a refclock or do you want to coast between manual corrections.

    For under $100 you can rig up a GPS clock. The Garmin
    GPS 18 LVC is usual suggestion. That will give you good
    time. I don't know anything about Solaris. Linux needs
    a serious patch to get PPS support. Without PPS support,
    your time won't be "good". It will be much better than
    coasting without any refclocks.

    If you don't use a refclock, you can set things up
    to distribute the local system clock.
    http://www.cis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/h...s/driver1.html

    It will drift between (manual) corrections. You can
    minimize that drift by calibrating your clock drift
    and putting the right value in the drift file.
    If your temperature and workload are reasonably stable,
    I'd expect you can get close to a second per week.


    A few odds and ends....

    The documentation for ntp is web pages, not man pages.

    There are generally 2 versions of ntp available: stable and dev.
    (There are also older version floating around too.)
    The dev version has new features, like the orphan mode. Maybe
    it has new bugs too. If you find web page via google, you
    don't know which version it is refering to. If you can, use
    the documentation that comes with the version of ntp you are running.

    I'd suggest a pass through all of the web pages. Skim the stuff
    that doesn't look interesting. Go back and read the important stuff
    more carefully.

    Linux 2.6 kernels have a bug in the tsc calibration code. That will
    confuse things if you try to manually calibrate the drift. (I'll say
    more if you get that far.)


    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


  11. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    Hal Murray wrote:
    >> Can someone point me to a good document that
    >> shows how to setup a Time Server? I have an
    >> isolated network that cannot get to the Internet
    >> to sync time. I have Solaris 8,9,10 and Red Hat Linux
    >> Advanced Server 4 servers as potential time server
    >> candidates.

    >
    > I don't know of any document that covers this case.
    > It does come up occasionally. There might be some
    > ideas in the newsgroup archives.
    >
    > I think your top level decision is do you want to setup
    > a refclock or do you want to coast between manual corrections.
    >
    > For under $100 you can rig up a GPS clock. The Garmin
    > GPS 18 LVC is usual suggestion. That will give you good
    > time. I don't know anything about Solaris. Linux needs
    > a serious patch to get PPS support. Without PPS support,
    > your time won't be "good". It will be much better than
    > coasting without any refclocks.


    Solaris has some sort of "PPS support". My Motorola M12+T feeds the PPS
    into, I believe, the DCD pin on the serial port. I'm not familiar with
    the Garmin driver; it may or may not have that support built in. If
    not, ISTR reading about a PPS driver.

  12. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    Hello all,

    I want to thank all of you for your suggestions and for
    pointing me to those URL solutions. It seems I have
    joined a great community of people. This was my
    first posting for I only joined the group yesterday.

    I must fly to Denver tonight, so it won't be until next week
    that I can try some of your suggestions.

    Thanks
    George

    ________________________________

    From: questions-bounces+sullivang=saic.com@lists.ntp.org on behalf of Richard B. Gilbert
    Sent: Tue 4/8/2008 8:01 AM
    To: questions@lists.ntp.org
    Subject: Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server



    Hal Murray wrote:
    >> Can someone point me to a good document that
    >> shows how to setup a Time Server? I have an
    >> isolated network that cannot get to the Internet
    >> to sync time. I have Solaris 8,9,10 and Red Hat Linux
    >> Advanced Server 4 servers as potential time server
    >> candidates.

    >
    > I don't know of any document that covers this case.
    > It does come up occasionally. There might be some
    > ideas in the newsgroup archives.
    >
    > I think your top level decision is do you want to setup
    > a refclock or do you want to coast between manual corrections.
    >
    > For under $100 you can rig up a GPS clock. The Garmin
    > GPS 18 LVC is usual suggestion. That will give you good
    > time. I don't know anything about Solaris. Linux needs
    > a serious patch to get PPS support. Without PPS support,
    > your time won't be "good". It will be much better than
    > coasting without any refclocks.


    Solaris has some sort of "PPS support". My Motorola M12+T feeds the PPS
    into, I believe, the DCD pin on the serial port. I'm not familiar with
    the Garmin driver; it may or may not have that support built in. If
    not, ISTR reading about a PPS driver.

    _______________________________________________
    questions mailing list
    questions@lists.ntp.org
    https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions

  13. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    On 2008-04-08, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

    > Solaris has some sort of "PPS support". My Motorola M12+T feeds the PPS
    > into, I believe, the DCD pin on the serial port. I'm not familiar with
    > the Garmin driver; it may or may not have that support built in. If
    > not, ISTR reading about a PPS driver.


    You don't need a "Garmin driver" for the GPS-18LVC.

    Just use the Atomized NMEA driver (with built-in PPS support).

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  14. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    On 2008-04-07, Sullivan, George E. wrote:

    > Can someone point me to a good document that shows how to setup a Time
    > Server?


    The Official NTP Quick Start page is at
    http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/quick.html

    The Community Supported Quick Start Page is at
    http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/GettingStarted

    The NTP FAQ addresses configuration at
    http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-config.htm

    For general NTP documentation start at
    http://www.ntp.org/documentation.html
    http://support.ntp.org/support
    http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-a-faq.htm

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  15. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    hal-usenet@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) writes:

    >>Can someone point me to a good document that
    >>shows how to setup a Time Server? I have an
    >>isolated network that cannot get to the Internet
    >>to sync time. I have Solaris 8,9,10 and Red Hat Linux
    >>Advanced Server 4 servers as potential time server
    >>candidates.


    >I don't know of any document that covers this case.
    >It does come up occasionally. There might be some
    >ideas in the newsgroup archives.


    >I think your top level decision is do you want to setup
    >a refclock or do you want to coast between manual corrections.


    >For under $100 you can rig up a GPS clock. The Garmin
    >GPS 18 LVC is usual suggestion. That will give you good
    >time. I don't know anything about Solaris. Linux needs
    >a serious patch to get PPS support. Without PPS support,
    >your time won't be "good". It will be much better than
    >coasting without any refclocks.


    If you want I can send you the "Kludge" I use. I have the Garmin pps hooked
    to the parallel port. I have an interrupt reading routine which puts the
    timestamps of the pps input into /dev/gpsint. I altered the shm refclock
    driver to read from /dev/gpsint. It works well.


    >If you don't use a refclock, you can set things up
    >to distribute the local system clock.
    > http://www.cis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/h...s/driver1.html


    >It will drift between (manual) corrections. You can
    >minimize that drift by calibrating your clock drift
    >and putting the right value in the drift file.


    chrony will also do that for you. Ie, you enter the manual times, and it
    calibrates the cpu clock for you from those inputs.

    >If your temperature and workload are reasonably stable,
    >I'd expect you can get close to a second per week.



    >A few odds and ends....


    >The documentation for ntp is web pages, not man pages.


    >There are generally 2 versions of ntp available: stable and dev.
    >(There are also older version floating around too.)
    >The dev version has new features, like the orphan mode. Maybe
    >it has new bugs too. If you find web page via google, you
    >don't know which version it is refering to. If you can, use
    >the documentation that comes with the version of ntp you are running.


    >I'd suggest a pass through all of the web pages. Skim the stuff
    >that doesn't look interesting. Go back and read the important stuff
    >more carefully.


    >Linux 2.6 kernels have a bug in the tsc calibration code. That will
    >confuse things if you try to manually calibrate the drift. (I'll say
    >more if you get that far.)



    >--
    >These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.



  16. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    Steve Kostecke writes:

    >On 2008-04-08, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:


    >> Solaris has some sort of "PPS support". My Motorola M12+T feeds the PPS
    >> into, I believe, the DCD pin on the serial port. I'm not familiar with
    >> the Garmin driver; it may or may not have that support built in. If
    >> not, ISTR reading about a PPS driver.


    >You don't need a "Garmin driver" for the GPS-18LVC.


    >Just use the Atomized NMEA driver (with built-in PPS support).



    I assume that you mean to use both the refclock_atom and the refclock_nmea
    drivers. (127.127.22.0 and 127.127.20.0)


    >--
    >Steve Kostecke
    >NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/


  17. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    On 2008-04-08, Unruh wrote:

    > Steve Kostecke writes:
    >
    >>You don't need a "Garmin driver" for the GPS-18LVC.

    >
    >>Just use the Atomized NMEA driver (with built-in PPS support).

    >
    > I assume that you mean to use both the refclock_atom and the
    > refclock_nmea drivers. (127.127.22.0 and 127.127.20.0)


    No. All you need is refclock_nmea (127.127.20.x) for a directly
    connected NMEA device. Assuming that you're using a Linux kernel with
    PPS-kit or a BSD kernel (or another kernel which directly supports PPS).

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  18. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server


    >I assume that you mean to use both the refclock_atom and the refclock_nmea
    >drivers. (127.127.22.0 and 127.127.20.0)


    The NMEA driver automagically uses the PPS stuff, whether you want
    it to or not.

    It would be nice to have a flag to disable that feature so you
    could collect data on the NMEA text mode and separately run
    an ATOM driver if you want data on the PPS stuff.

    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


  19. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server

    Steve Kostecke writes:

    >On 2008-04-08, Unruh wrote:


    >> Steve Kostecke writes:
    >>
    >>>You don't need a "Garmin driver" for the GPS-18LVC.

    >>
    >>>Just use the Atomized NMEA driver (with built-in PPS support).

    >>
    >> I assume that you mean to use both the refclock_atom and the
    >> refclock_nmea drivers. (127.127.22.0 and 127.127.20.0)


    >No. All you need is refclock_nmea (127.127.20.x) for a directly
    >connected NMEA device. Assuming that you're using a Linux kernel with
    >PPS-kit or a BSD kernel (or another kernel which directly supports PPS).


    OK, lets assume the kernel does NOT have the PPS support. Then what?



    >--
    >Steve Kostecke
    >NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/


  20. Re: Setting up a NTP Time Server


    >>No. All you need is refclock_nmea (127.127.20.x) for a directly
    >>connected NMEA device. Assuming that you're using a Linux kernel with
    >>PPS-kit or a BSD kernel (or another kernel which directly supports PPS).

    >
    >OK, lets assume the kernel does NOT have the PPS support. Then what?


    If you setup a NMEA refclock, it runs off the text strings
    on the serial port. It works, it just doesn't keep as good
    time as you normally get from PPS.

    How good depends on your GPS device. A lot of them have
    a lot of jitter.

    You also get jitter from the OS (and serial port hardware).
    There should be a simple recipe to minimize that. I haven't
    seen one and several tries haven't produced anything that
    I'd call good-enough. (When I run out of other things to
    work on...)


    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


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