SNMP support - NTP

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Thread: SNMP support

  1. SNMP support

    Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    plans to add support?

    Thanks,
    David



  2. Re: SNMP support

    >>> In article , "David J Taylor" writes:

    David> Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    David> plans to add support?

    I gather nobody has written the .whatever file to build the current sntp
    code under windows.

    We are (slowly) working on a new sntp client - no idea when it will be
    ready.
    --
    Harlan Stenn
    http://ntpforum.isc.org - be a member!

  3. Re: SNMP support

    Harlan Stenn wrote:
    >>>> In article ,
    >>>> "David J Taylor"
    >>>> writes:

    >
    > David> Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are
    > there any David> plans to add support?
    >
    > I gather nobody has written the .whatever file to build the current
    > sntp code under windows.
    >
    > We are (slowly) working on a new sntp client - no idea when it will be
    > ready.


    Harlan,

    Not SNTP - the management protocol SNMP.

    Cheers,
    David



  4. Re: SNMP support

    David J Taylor wrote:
    > Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    > plans to add support?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > David
    >
    >


    I never noticed any SNMP support. I never expected any. Why should
    there be any?


  5. Re: SNMP support

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > David J Taylor wrote:
    >> Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    >> plans to add support?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> David
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I never noticed any SNMP support. I never expected any. Why should
    > there be any?


    It would be very handy if one could monitor NTP with the same tools used
    for monitoring other aspects of performance, rather than having to use
    special programs like ntpq and parse its output. I'm thinking of this an
    addition to the present tools, though, not a replacement.

    Cheers,
    David



  6. Re: SNMP support

    David J Taylor wrote:
    > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >
    >>David J Taylor wrote:
    >>
    >>>Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    >>>plans to add support?
    >>>
    >>>Thanks,
    >>>David
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>I never noticed any SNMP support. I never expected any. Why should
    >>there be any?

    >
    >
    > It would be very handy if one could monitor NTP with the same tools used
    > for monitoring other aspects of performance, rather than having to use
    > special programs like ntpq and parse its output. I'm thinking of this an
    > addition to the present tools, though, not a replacement.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David
    >
    >


    I just use the peerstats file if I'm curious. Stuff it into Gnuplot. . . .


  7. Re: SNMP support


    >It would be very handy if one could monitor NTP with the same tools used
    >for monitoring other aspects of performance, rather than having to use
    >special programs like ntpq and parse its output. I'm thinking of this an
    >addition to the present tools, though, not a replacement.


    Is there anything you want to look at that isn't available via ntpq?

    If not, it should be a reasonable task to write a module that plugs
    into some local snmp server package and returns the desired info.

    [But there is a lot I don't know about SNMP.]


    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


  8. Re: SNMP support

    >>> In article , "David J Taylor" writes:

    David> Not SNTP - the management protocol SNMP.

    Ah, I read too quicklky.

    That is being discussed in the IETF NTP Workgroup.
    --
    Harlan Stenn
    http://ntpforum.isc.org - be a member!

  9. Re: SNMP support

    Harlan Stenn wrote:
    >>>> In article ,
    >>>> "David J Taylor"
    >>>> writes:

    >
    > David> Not SNTP - the management protocol SNMP.
    >
    > Ah, I read too quicklky.
    >
    > That is being discussed in the IETF NTP Workgroup.


    Thanks, Harlan, I'm pleased to hear that.

    Cheers,
    David



  10. Re: SNMP support

    Hal Murray wrote:
    >> It would be very handy if one could monitor NTP with the same tools
    >> used for monitoring other aspects of performance, rather than having
    >> to use special programs like ntpq and parse its output. I'm
    >> thinking of this an addition to the present tools, though, not a
    >> replacement.

    >
    > Is there anything you want to look at that isn't available via ntpq?
    >
    > If not, it should be a reasonable task to write a module that plugs
    > into some local snmp server package and returns the desired info.
    >
    > [But there is a lot I don't know about SNMP.]


    Thanks, but it seems that the IETF NTP Workgroup think this worthy of
    their consideration.

    Cheers,
    David



  11. Re: SNMP support

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    []
    > I just use the peerstats file if I'm curious. Stuff it into Gnuplot.
    > . . .


    Thanks, Richard. What I'm after is automated monitoring of a number of
    systems, and plotting results along with other parameters. Here's an
    example:

    http://www.david-taylor.myby.co.uk/m...e_stamsund.asp

    Cheers,
    David



  12. Re: SNMP support

    Harlan Stenn wrote:
    > David> Not SNTP - the management protocol SNMP.
    >
    > Ah, I read too quicklky.
    >
    > That is being discussed in the IETF NTP Workgroup.


    No, what's being discussed is the MIB, not the implementation. Noone has
    stepped up to implement this and I'm not volunteering for this one.

    Danny

  13. Re: SNMP support

    >>> In article <475CC784.8040109@ntp.isc.org>, mayer@ntp.isc.org (Danny Mayer) writes:

    Danny> Harlan Stenn wrote:
    David> Not SNTP - the management protocol SNMP.
    >> Ah, I read too quicklky.
    >>
    >> That is being discussed in the IETF NTP Workgroup.


    Danny> No, what's being discussed is the MIB, not the implementation. Noone
    Danny> has stepped up to implement this and I'm not volunteering for this
    Danny> one.

    Gimme a break Danny.

    What would SNMP do with NTP if there was no MIB?
    --
    Harlan Stenn
    http://ntpforum.isc.org - be a member!

  14. Re: SNMP support

    Harlan Stenn wrote:
    >>>> In article <475CC784.8040109@ntp.isc.org>, mayer@ntp.isc.org (Danny Mayer) writes:

    >
    > Danny> Harlan Stenn wrote:
    > David> Not SNTP - the management protocol SNMP.
    >>> Ah, I read too quicklky.
    >>>
    >>> That is being discussed in the IETF NTP Workgroup.

    >
    > Danny> No, what's being discussed is the MIB, not the implementation. Noone
    > Danny> has stepped up to implement this and I'm not volunteering for this
    > Danny> one.
    >
    > Gimme a break Danny.
    >
    > What would SNMP do with NTP if there was no MIB?


    Exactly.

  15. Re: SNMP support

    David J Taylor schrieb:
    > Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    > plans to add support?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > David


    When the MIB for NTP has been standardized, I will try to write a module for
    net-snmp which supports that standard NTPv4 MIB. Our current NTP server
    appliances (like others on the market) already offer NTP related data objects in
    their enterprise MIB.

    The current draft can be found here:
    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/...pv4-mib-03.txt

    Best Regards,
    Heiko


  16. Re: SNMP support

    Heiko Gerstung wrote:
    > David J Taylor schrieb:
    >> Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    >> plans to add support?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> David

    >
    > When the MIB for NTP has been standardized, I will try to write a
    > module for net-snmp which supports that standard NTPv4 MIB. Our
    > current NTP server appliances (like others on the market) already
    > offer NTP related data objects in their enterprise MIB.
    >
    > The current draft can be found here:
    > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/...pv4-mib-03.txt
    >
    > Best Regards,
    > Heiko


    Heiko,

    I'm delighted to see this so well advanced, and even more delighted that
    we may even see an implementation! I would be after a Windows SNMP
    implementation which worked with MRTG and perhaps other reporting tools.

    A quick read suggests that you could get with SNMP everything which you
    can currently get from NTPQ, with the addition of optional notifications
    when things change. There is no other writeable input.

    Would that be a fair summary?

    Cheers,
    David



  17. Re: SNMP support

    David J Taylor schrieb:
    > Heiko Gerstung wrote:
    >> David J Taylor schrieb:
    >>> Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    >>> plans to add support?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> David

    >> When the MIB for NTP has been standardized, I will try to write a
    >> module for net-snmp which supports that standard NTPv4 MIB. Our
    >> current NTP server appliances (like others on the market) already
    >> offer NTP related data objects in their enterprise MIB.
    >>
    >> The current draft can be found here:
    >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/...pv4-mib-03.txt
    >>
    >> Best Regards,
    >> Heiko

    >
    > Heiko,
    >
    > I'm delighted to see this so well advanced, and even more delighted that
    > we may even see an implementation! I would be after a Windows SNMP
    > implementation which worked with MRTG and perhaps other reporting tools.
    >
    > A quick read suggests that you could get with SNMP everything which you
    > can currently get from NTPQ, with the addition of optional notifications
    > when things change. There is no other writeable input.
    >
    > Would that be a fair summary?


    Well, I would not go as far as promising that you will get every that NTPQ
    offers, but this was not the intention. We wanted to include as many data
    objects as required to be able to automatically monitor your NTP server
    instance(s) with your standard network management system a la HP Openview or IBM
    Tivoli or whatever.

    Besides the effort to produce an NTP module for NET-SNMP (which is AFAIK also
    available for Windows) it will be required to modify ntpd as well to provide an
    interface that can be used by the net-snmp module (or any other implementation).

    Using mode 6 / mode 7 packets will be working for most objects in the MIB, other
    parts require additional data collecting on ntpd's side (e.g. for the requests
    stats).

    It might be time to implement a new management interface for ntpd which probably
    could use TCP/123 instead of UDP, but I am not sure if everybody involved would
    be willing to go down that road. However, I see a demand for simplifying the
    health and statistics monitoring side of NTP.

    People often tend to say that NTPQ already offers all they need, but the core
    idea behind SNMP (IMHO) is that you need only one piece of software to monitor
    your routers, servers, printers, coffee machines and, yes, time servers.

    Since SNMP is to network monitoring what NTP is to network time synchronization
    (the de facto standard protocol), it is time to enable NTP to provide an SNMP
    interface. One day it might be even a way to replace ntpdc when it comes to
    runtime reconfiguration issues. This would overcome the current problems we see
    with ntpdc, mainly the tight relationship between ntpdc's and ntpd's version.

    But this would require to add more "writable" data objects and since this has a
    major implication on security, we will spare that until the definition of
    NTPv5's MIB :-)

    Cheers,
    Heiko

  18. Re: SNMP support

    Heiko Gerstung wrote:
    []
    > People often tend to say that NTPQ already offers all they need, but
    > the core idea behind SNMP (IMHO) is that you need only one piece of
    > software to monitor your routers, servers, printers, coffee machines
    > and, yes, time servers.
    > Since SNMP is to network monitoring what NTP is to network time
    > synchronization (the de facto standard protocol), it is time to
    > enable NTP to provide an SNMP interface.

    []
    > Cheers,
    > Heiko


    This sounds excellent - more power to your elbow (as we say).

    Cheers,
    David



  19. Re: SNMP support

    David,

    There are no plans that I know of for the reference implementation
    itself to support SNMP directly. There is an alternative that in fact
    was implemented for evaluation some years ago. It used an SNMP agent
    program to send mode-6 (ntpq) commands to an NTP server and translate
    what came back, then respond in the style of the MIB. That actually
    worked quite well, considering the limitations of SNMP. While that
    program is lost in the dust of time, it would not be too hard to
    re-create it.

    The hard part in the agent implementation was how to translate the
    episodic data from an NTP association into something a NOC engineer coul
    see on a meter or tally light. The attraction of the agent aproach was
    that the translation can be done by the agent without tinkering the NTP
    server in possibly ugly ways.

    An approach that saw action some years ago was to embed the translator
    in an expert system programmed in smalltalk, for example. The project
    was funded by DARPA not specifically for NTP monitoring, but for
    Internet NOCs in general. I just love that approach.

    Dave

    David J Taylor wrote:

    > Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    > plans to add support?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > David
    >
    >


  20. Re: SNMP support

    Heiko,

    We should reveal that at least some GPS/NTP appliances already do
    implement some form of MIB.

    Dave

    Heiko Gerstung wrote:

    > David J Taylor schrieb:
    >
    >> Does NTP include SNMP support (on Windows), and if not, are there any
    >> plans to add support?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> David

    >
    >
    > When the MIB for NTP has been standardized, I will try to write a module
    > for net-snmp which supports that standard NTPv4 MIB. Our current NTP
    > server appliances (like others on the market) already offer NTP related
    > data objects in their enterprise MIB.
    >
    > The current draft can be found here:
    > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/...pv4-mib-03.txt
    >
    > Best Regards,
    > Heiko
    >


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