Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units? - NTP

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  1. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Out of curiosity: what is wrong with the Garmin GPS 18LVC that someone
    would like to look at an alternative? At < $70, it's practically free.

    /ji

  2. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    John Ioannidis wrote:
    > Out of curiosity: what is wrong with the Garmin GPS 18LVC that someone
    > would like to look at an alternative? At < $70, it's practically free.


    Well, one downside is that it's "free" plus the time, materials, and
    knowledge to make yourself a custom cable, do RS-232 level-shifting,
    and provide a voltage source.

    It's not hard if you're already a electrical engineer, radio HAM,
    hardware hobbyist, etc, but it's still extra hassle. For example, if
    there was something similar that was ready to plug into a RS-232 port
    with the right levels and PPS already on DCD and a standard DC power
    input plug tee'd off, it would be pretty convenient.

    Also, in general it's natural to want to know about alternatives (or the
    lack of them) so as to be able to make quality decisions.

    --
    Wesley J. Landaker
    OpenPGP FP: 4135 2A3B 4726 ACC5 9094 0097 F0A9 8A4C 4CD6 E3D2

  3. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    On 2007-11-12, Wesley J. Landaker wrote:

    > John Ioannidis wrote:
    >
    >> Out of curiosity: what is wrong with the Garmin GPS 18LVC that
    >> someone would like to look at an alternative? At < $70, it's
    >> practically free.

    >
    > Well, one downside is that it's "free" plus the time, materials, and
    > knowledge to make yourself a custom cable, do RS-232 level-shifting,
    > and provide a voltage source.


    Perhaps I missed something here. But all I had to do was find a serial
    header cable in my junk box, look up the Soekris header pin out,
    match the connections, solder, and plug it in. For some odd reason it
    JustWorks(tm). Didn't need an RS-232 level shifter.

    --
    Steve Kostecke
    NTP Public Services Project - http://support.ntp.org/

  4. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Wesley J. Landaker wrote:
    > John Ioannidis wrote:
    >
    >>Out of curiosity: what is wrong with the Garmin GPS 18LVC that someone
    >>would like to look at an alternative? At < $70, it's practically free.

    >
    >
    > Well, one downside is that it's "free" plus the time, materials, and
    > knowledge to make yourself a custom cable, do RS-232 level-shifting,
    > and provide a voltage source.
    >
    > It's not hard if you're already a electrical engineer, radio HAM,
    > hardware hobbyist, etc, but it's still extra hassle. For example, if
    > there was something similar that was ready to plug into a RS-232 port
    > with the right levels and PPS already on DCD and a standard DC power
    > input plug tee'd off, it would be pretty convenient.
    >
    > Also, in general it's natural to want to know about alternatives (or the
    > lack of them) so as to be able to make quality decisions.
    >


    There are damned few alternatives. The Garmin is the only one I've ever
    heard of in the under $100 price class. At $300-$400 there are a few
    alternatives. At $1000 and up there are even more alternatives.

    If there were a market for several hundred Plug-N-Play systems, I'm sure
    someone would be delighted to serve that market for $100-$125 each.
    $70 for the Garmin
    $5 for a DB-25 or DB-9 connector
    $1 for 5 feet of cable
    $5-10 for a 5 Volt "wall wart"
    $1 for a mating connector for the "wall wart"
    A soldering iron, some solder, and you're in business. Pricing is
    "S.W.A.G."

    D.I.Y. is a bit cheaper.



  5. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?


    >> Well, one downside is that it's "free" plus the time, materials, and
    >> knowledge to make yourself a custom cable, do RS-232 level-shifting,
    >> and provide a voltage source.

    >
    >Perhaps I missed something here. But all I had to do was find a serial
    >header cable in my junk box, look up the Soekris header pin out,
    >match the connections, solder, and plug it in. For some odd reason it
    >JustWorks(tm). Didn't need an RS-232 level shifter.


    The PPS signal is TTL rather than RS-232. (It's probably actually
    CMOS rather than TTL.)

    Some people think you need a level shifter. Reality says
    you don't, at least on most systems including mine and yours.

    I expect there are a few RS-232 ports that won't work. I think
    they may have tweaked the RS-232 specs to handle this case
    officially.

    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


  6. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    John Ioannidis wrote:
    > Out of curiosity: what is wrong with the Garmin GPS 18LVC that someone
    > would like to look at an alternative? At < $70, it's practically free.


    Absolutely nothing wrong with it.

    I personally got one to work in a couple of hours, including the drive
    to the parts store to pick up an RS232 connector and a short USB cable.

    The USB cable has 4 wires, with +5V on Red (Black is Ground), so I
    simply soldered the relevant Garmin wires to TX/RX/DCD/PWR/GND,
    connecting the USB Red/Black wires to the last two.

    That's all I needed, and the GPS "just works" like this. :-)

    Terje

    --
    -
    "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

  7. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Terje Mathisen wrote:
    > John Ioannidis wrote:
    >> Out of curiosity: what is wrong with the Garmin GPS 18LVC that
    >> someone would like to look at an alternative? At < $70, it's
    >> practically free.

    >
    > Absolutely nothing wrong with it.
    >
    > I personally got one to work in a couple of hours, including the drive
    > to the parts store to pick up an RS232 connector and a short USB
    > cable.
    >
    > The USB cable has 4 wires, with +5V on Red (Black is Ground), so I
    > simply soldered the relevant Garmin wires to TX/RX/DCD/PWR/GND,
    > connecting the USB Red/Black wires to the last two.
    >
    > That's all I needed, and the GPS "just works" like this. :-)


    After a lot of looking around, I think I'm going to go with this one as
    well. Thanks to everyone who replied with advice and suggestions.

    --
    Wesley J. Landaker
    OpenPGP FP: 4135 2A3B 4726 ACC5 9094 0097 F0A9 8A4C 4CD6 E3D2

  8. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Hi there


    John Ioannidis wrote:

    > Out of curiosity: what is wrong with the Garmin GPS 18LVC that someone
    > would like to look at an alternative? At < $70, it's practically free.


    Where can get one in Europe?
    USD 68.50 is ca € 50.-
    Some EU webshops sell it for € 114.-, which is ca USD 156.-
    Or can I order one from the Garmin site?


    Regards,
    Rob
    --
    Avoid alphabet soup. Include the charset in your HTML header;
    META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=Your_Charset"

  9. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Rob van der Putten wrote:
    > Hi there
    >
    >
    > John Ioannidis wrote:
    >
    >> Out of curiosity: what is wrong with the Garmin GPS 18LVC that someone
    >> would like to look at an alternative? At < $70, it's practically free.

    >
    > Where can get one in Europe?
    > USD 68.50 is ca € 50.-
    > Some EU webshops sell it for € 114.-, which is ca USD 156.-
    > Or can I order one from the Garmin site?


    Garmin sells it from their website for 74.50 USD:
    https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?...3&tab=gps18oem

    I bought mine from MegaGPS.com for 64.99 USD + 5.95 USD shipping:
    http://www.megagps.com/index.asp?Pag...ROD&ProdID=121

    MegaGPS.com ships internationally. I don't know about Garmin.

    > Regards,
    > Rob


    --
    Dennis Hilberg, Jr. timekeeper(at)dennishilberg(dot)com
    NTP Server Information: http://saturn.dennishilberg.com/ntp.php

  10. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    >Where can get one in Europe?
    >USD 68.50 is ca € 50.-
    >Some EU webshops sell it for € 114.-, which is ca USD 156.-


    Be sure you get the bare/OEM version, not one with mapping software.

    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


  11. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Hi there


    Hal Murray wrote:

    > Be sure you get the bare/OEM version, not one with mapping software.


    With software it's € 280.-

    BTW, the USD is € 0.68 right now. So EU companies are charging 150 % extra.


    Regards,
    Rob
    --
    Avoid alphabet soup. Include the charset in your HTML header;
    META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=Your_Charset"

  12. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?


    >With software it's € 280.-
    >
    >BTW, the USD is € 0.68 right now. So EU companies are charging 150 % extra.


    I got my GPS 18 LVC from Provantage (www.provantage.com).
    Their web page says they ship internationally, but I don't
    know how their total cost compares to any other place.

    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


  13. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Hi there


    Hal Murray wrote:

    > I got my GPS 18 LVC from Provantage (www.provantage.com).
    > Their web page says they ship internationally, but I don't
    > know how their total cost compares to any other place.


    They do American express only (no other credit cards) and bank transfers.
    Transfers in de Euro zone [1] are free of charge. Outside the EU they
    are very expensive.

    [1] Also called Euro land. These are countries which use the euro (not
    the entire EU). It doesn't include the UK.


    Regards,
    Rob
    --
    Avoid alphabet soup. Include the charset in your HTML header;
    META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=Your_Charset"

  14. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Hi there


    Dennis Hilberg, Jr. wrote:

    > Garmin sells it from their website for 74.50 USD:
    > https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?...3&tab=gps18oem


    They don't ship outside the USA.

    > I bought mine from MegaGPS.com for 64.99 USD + 5.95 USD shipping:
    > http://www.megagps.com/index.asp?Pag...ROD&ProdID=121
    >
    > MegaGPS.com ships internationally. I don't know about Garmin.


    Their webform is broken.

    Any suggestions?


    Regards,
    Rob
    --
    Avoid alphabet soup. Include the charset in your HTML header;
    META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=Your_Charset"

  15. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Rob van der Putten wrote:
    >> MegaGPS.com ships internationally. I don't know about Garmin.

    >
    > Their webform is broken.
    >
    > Any suggestions?


    It works fine for me using Firefox 2.0.0.9. Have you tried using a
    different browser?

    > Regards,
    > Rob



    --
    Dennis Hilberg, Jr. timekeeper(at)dennishilberg(dot)com
    NTP Server Information: http://saturn.dennishilberg.com/ntp.php

  16. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Hi there


    Dennis Hilberg, Jr. wrote:

    > It works fine for me using Firefox 2.0.0.9. Have you tried using a
    > different browser?


    Mozilla and Konqueror. Complains about not being able to calculate the
    shipping charges.

    This seems to work though;
    http://www.flash-memory-store.com/ga...em-waas12.html
    I hope it actually does work.


    Regards,
    Rob
    --
    Avoid alphabet soup. Include the charset in your HTML header;
    META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=Your_Charset"

  17. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?


    >> I got my GPS 18 LVC from Provantage (www.provantage.com).
    >> Their web page says they ship internationally, but I don't
    >> know how their total cost compares to any other place.

    >
    >They do American express only (no other credit cards) and bank transfers.


    I got mine with a Mastercard. Is that restriction for out of US
    delivery?

    >Transfers in de Euro zone [1] are free of charge. Outside the EU they
    >are very expensive.


    --
    These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.


  18. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Hi there


    Hal Murray wrote:

    > I got mine with a Mastercard. Is that restriction for out of US
    > delivery?


    Apparently.


    Regards,
    Rob
    --
    Avoid alphabet soup. Include the charset in your HTML header;
    META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=Your_Charset"

  19. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    >>> In article <47447e00$0$226$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, Rob van der Putten writes:

    Rob> Mozilla and Konqueror. Complains about not being able to calculate the
    Rob> shipping charges.

    I would hope you sent email to their webmaster...

    H

  20. Re: Inexpensive OEM GPS units?

    Hi there


    Harlan Stenn wrote:

    > I would hope you sent email to their webmaster...


    No.


    Regards,
    Rob
    --
    Avoid alphabet soup. Include the charset in your HTML header;
    META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=Your_Charset"

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