Questions about beta Versions - Mozilla

This is a discussion on Questions about beta Versions - Mozilla ; Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF? Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions are held. -- Pete Holsberg Columbus, NJ Senility Prayer God grant me the senility to forget the people ...

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Thread: Questions about beta Versions

  1. Questions about beta Versions

    Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?
    Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions are held.

    --
    Pete Holsberg
    Columbus, NJ

    Senility Prayer
    God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the
    good fortune to run into the ones that I do, and the eyesight to tell
    the difference.

  2. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 03-04-2008 19:03 CET, Pete Holsberg composed this enchanting statement:
    > Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?
    > Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions are
    > held.
    >

    I believe the rc and/or beta posts should go to:

    news.mozilla.org/[mozilla.dev.qa | mozilla.dev.appl.firefox |
    mozilla.test.firefox | mozilla.qa.firefox]. Yes, I'm aware the latter
    two do not exist, yet.

    --
    Kind regards,
    Melchert

    (MacOS 10.3.9 / Firefox 2.0, Thunderbird 2.0)

  3. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    > Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?


    If it's a support question, yes.

    > Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions are held.


    See
    .

    --
    Chris Ilias
    List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia

  4. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 03-04-2008 19:26 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    > On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?

    >
    > If it's a support question, yes.
    >
    >> Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions are
    >> held.

    >
    > See
    > .
    >
    >

    See these individual messages in that thread, by Gervase Markham:

    .

    and the reply on that by AC (A. Chevreau?):



    --
    Kind regards,
    Melchert

    (MacOS 10.3.9 / Firefox 2.0, Thunderbird 2.0)

  5. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 4/3/08 1:47 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    > On 03-04-2008 19:26 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    >> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?

    >>
    >> If it's a support question, yes.
    >>
    >>> Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions are
    >>> held.

    >>
    >> See
    >> .
    >>
    >>

    > See these individual messages in that thread, by Gervase Markham:
    >
    > .
    >
    >
    > and the reply on that by AC (A. Chevreau?):
    >
    >


    What about them?

    --
    Chris Ilias
    List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia

  6. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    Chris Ilias has written on 4/3/2008 1:26 PM:
    > On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >
    >> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?
    >>

    >
    > If it's a support question, yes.
    >


    All I've seen could be regarded as bug reports or complaints about
    behavior. How do you define "support question"?

  7. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 4/3/08 2:02 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    > Chris Ilias has written on 4/3/2008 1:26 PM:
    >> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>
    >>> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?
    >>>

    >>
    >> If it's a support question, yes.
    >>

    >
    > All I've seen could be regarded as bug reports or complaints about
    > behavior. How do you define "support question"?


    Looking for help on using Firefox.
    --
    Chris Ilias
    List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia

  8. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    * Chris Ilias wrote, On 4/3/2008 11:06:
    > On 4/3/08 2:02 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >> Chris Ilias has written on 4/3/2008 1:26 PM:
    >>> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>>
    >>>> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of
    >>>> FF?
    >>>
    >>> If it's a support question, yes.
    >>>

    >>
    >> All I've seen could be regarded as bug reports or complaints about
    >> behavior. How do you define "support question"?

    >
    > Looking for help on using Firefox.


    Believe it should be defined as "looking for help on current final and
    past versions."

    Since most users are not using a beta version I agree that all such msgs
    should be elsewhere. As far as I am concerned, it's similar to sorting
    through newsgroup spam -- an inconvenience and a waste of time.

    If we wanted to learn how a particular beta was working out, we could go
    to that separate NG or wherever it's decided it belongs.
    Miles

  9. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 03-04-2008 20:01 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    > On 4/3/08 1:47 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    >> On 03-04-2008 19:26 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    >>> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>>> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?
    >>>
    >>> If it's a support question, yes.
    >>>
    >>>> Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions
    >>>> are held.
    >>>
    >>> See
    >>> .
    >>>
    >>>

    >> See these individual messages in that thread, by Gervase Markham:
    >>
    >> .
    >>
    >>
    >> and the reply on that by AC (A. Chevreau?):
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > What about them?
    >

    What about your reference above?

    --
    Kind regards,
    Melchert

    (MacOS 10.3.9 / Firefox 2.0, Thunderbird 2.0)

  10. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 4/3/08 2:15 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    > On 03-04-2008 20:01 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    >> On 4/3/08 1:47 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    >>> On 03-04-2008 19:26 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    >>>> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions
    >>>>> are held.
    >>>>
    >>>> See
    >>>> .
    >>>
    >>> See these individual messages in that thread, by Gervase Markham:
    >>>
    >>> .
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> and the reply on that by AC (A. Chevreau?):
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> What about them?

    >
    > What about your reference above?


    It's a link to the very discussion, that addresses what Peter was
    asking, and the conclusion.
    If you're looking of support, this is the place. It doesn't matter which
    version of Firefox you're using, just like it doesn't matter which OS
    you're using. This is not be confused with reporting or triaging bugs,
    which belong elsewhere.
    --
    Chris Ilias
    List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia

  11. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 4/4/2008 12:01 AM India Time, _Chris Ilias_ wrote:

    > On 4/3/08 2:15 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    >> On 03-04-2008 20:01 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    >>> On 4/3/08 1:47 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    >>>> On 03-04-2008 19:26 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    >>>>> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions
    >>>>>> are held.
    >>>>> See
    >>>>> .
    >>>> See these individual messages in that thread, by Gervase Markham:
    >>>>
    >>>> .
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> and the reply on that by AC (A. Chevreau?):
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> What about them?

    >> What about your reference above?

    >
    > It's a link to the very discussion, that addresses what Peter was
    > asking, and the conclusion.
    > If you're looking of support, this is the place. It doesn't matter which
    > version of Firefox you're using, just like it doesn't matter which OS
    > you're using. This is not be confused with reporting or triaging bugs,
    > which belong elsewhere.


    good answer. good policy.

    I feel that occasional users should be allowed to ask questions about
    anything related to FF on this single forum. (Except the testing,testing
    messages). Even about beta, even about add ons, even about bugs and
    suggestions, etc. right here. May be some veteran can repost the
    suggestion/ bugs questions in relevant forum so that others can refer to it.

    But, those who r frequent posters should strive to learn about various
    ngs and go to specific forum and ask questions there.

    And I see it already happening sort of. Whenever a new person asks a
    question, it always gets answered. (Even ie related or other non-ff
    questions also get answered for that matter. :-) ) And that is a real
    good policy that has earned a high repute for this ng.

    --
    Rawat


  12. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 4/3/2008 11:45 PM India Time, _Miles_ wrote:

    > * Chris Ilias wrote, On 4/3/2008 11:06:
    >> On 4/3/08 2:02 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>> Chris Ilias has written on 4/3/2008 1:26 PM:
    >>>> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of
    >>>>> FF?
    >>>> If it's a support question, yes.
    >>>>
    >>> All I've seen could be regarded as bug reports or complaints about
    >>> behavior. How do you define "support question"?

    >> Looking for help on using Firefox.

    >
    > Believe it should be defined as "looking for help on current final and
    > past versions."
    >
    > Since most users are not using a beta version I agree that all such msgs
    > should be elsewhere. As far as I am concerned, it's similar to sorting
    > through newsgroup spam -- an inconvenience and a waste of time.
    >
    > If we wanted to learn how a particular beta was working out, we could go
    > to that separate NG or wherever it's decided it belongs.
    > Miles


    Beta-s need to be used/ tested by more and more people. And such
    questions help increase the awareness about beta. from Beta questions in
    this forum I came to know that it has got released, so I went and
    downloaded and installed it, then I came to know that 3b3 got released
    so I updated to it.

    And, then, there are questions about beta's new features, that help
    generate a lot of enthusiasm and more users venture to try beta just
    because they like some particular new feature.

    So, beta discussions here are helping beta, so it shud be allowed. (me
    think.)
    --

    I also feel that the original question arose (that whether beta
    questions are allowed) only because there is a major version change. I
    mean people enthusiastically look for a ff1 ff2 ff3 ff4 sort of releases
    assuming that it will carry a lot of new feature so they jump to try it
    whereas not many try for ff2.1.15 beta.

    I also find that in almost all the other software I am using, there is
    no separate ng/ forum for betas. All the questions are allowed in a
    single forum. Cud be that ff users are increasing (what is our current
    market share?) and a large num of them are coming to this ng so there
    are more posts, the volume of which people are finding difficult to
    handle so finding ways to reduce the volume. seems reasonable to me.
    --
    Rawat

  13. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    Pete Holsberg wrote:
    > Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?
    > Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions are held.
    >

    No, you are in the correct NG.


    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  14. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    Pete Holsberg wrote:
    > Chris Ilias has written on 4/3/2008 1:26 PM:
    >> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>
    >>> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?
    >>>

    >>
    >> If it's a support question, yes.
    >>

    >
    > All I've seen could be regarded as bug reports or complaints about
    > behavior. How do you define "support question"?


    In many cases, a complaint, or 'bug' is really something that can be
    solved by configuration, or changing the user's operating technique. In
    this case, this is the correct place for those messages. If the poster
    wants to discuss the technical aspects of a particular bug, or how to
    fix it, as in how to code it, this isn't the place.


    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  15. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    * V S Rawat wrote, On 4/3/2008 12:18:
    > On 4/3/2008 11:45 PM India Time, _Miles_ wrote:
    >
    >> * Chris Ilias wrote, On 4/3/2008 11:06:
    >>> On 4/3/08 2:02 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>>> Chris Ilias has written on 4/3/2008 1:26 PM:
    >>>>> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of
    >>>>>> FF?
    >>>>> If it's a support question, yes.
    >>>>>
    >>>> All I've seen could be regarded as bug reports or complaints about
    >>>> behavior. How do you define "support question"?
    >>> Looking for help on using Firefox.

    >>
    >> Believe it should be defined as "looking for help on current final and
    >> past versions."
    >>
    >> Since most users are not using a beta version I agree that all such
    >> msgs should be elsewhere. As far as I am concerned, it's similar to
    >> sorting through newsgroup spam -- an inconvenience and a waste of time.
    >>
    >> If we wanted to learn how a particular beta was working out, we could
    >> go to that separate NG or wherever it's decided it belongs.
    >> Miles

    >
    > Beta-s need to be used/ tested by more and more people. And such
    > questions help increase the awareness about beta.


    Good point!

    from Beta questions in
    > this forum I came to know that it has got released, so I went and
    > downloaded and installed it, then I came to know that 3b3 got released
    > so I updated to it.


    A pity if that's the only method a user has of being noticed.
    >
    > And, then, there are questions about beta's new features, that help
    > generate a lot of enthusiasm and more users venture to try beta just
    > because they like some particular new feature.
    >
    > So, beta discussions here are helping beta, so it shud be allowed. (me
    > think.)


    and that's why I claim they should be in a beta group.
    > --
    >


    > I also find that in almost all the other software I am using, there is
    > no separate ng/ forum for betas. All the questions are allowed in a
    > single forum. Cud be that ff users are increasing (what is our current
    > market share?) and a large num of them are coming to this ng so there
    > are more posts, the volume of which people are finding difficult to
    > handle so finding ways to reduce the volume. seems reasonable to me.


    Exactly!

    I should add that I believe Chris believes that it beta testing belongs
    here just as does discussion as to the current version on different
    operating systems or browsers. With this I have a basic disagreement,
    particularly since we need to consider volume. For instance, I'm using
    windows and it's tolerable to have a few msgs Linus specific, but when
    it comes to the multitudes of beta msgs, that's a different story.

  16. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    Miles wrote:

    > particularly since we need to consider volume. For instance, I'm
    > using windows and it's tolerable to have a few msgs Linus specific,
    > but when it comes to the multitudes of beta msgs, that's a different
    > story.


    I don't find it a problem, but if you want you could file a bug for
    creation of m.s.firefox-beta or somesuch, a group to hold peer support
    for alphas, betas, and RCs. It would probably help convince the people
    who'd make the call if someone would compile stats about the volume of
    beta posts here.

    Another option would be to convince people to use tags in the Subject,
    like [alpha] or [beta], so that filtering would be easy. Given the
    percentage of new posters with questions, I don't know how much good
    that would do.

  17. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 4/4/08 1:43 AM, _Q_ spoke thusly:
    > Miles wrote:
    >
    >> particularly since we need to consider volume. For instance, I'm
    >> using windows and it's tolerable to have a few msgs Linus specific,
    >> but when it comes to the multitudes of beta msgs, that's a different
    >> story.

    >
    > I don't find it a problem, but if you want you could file a bug for
    > creation of m.s.firefox-beta or somesuch, a group to hold peer support
    > for alphas, betas, and RCs. It would probably help convince the people
    > who'd make the call if someone would compile stats about the volume of
    > beta posts here.


    I'd have no problem with a mozilla.support.firefox.prerelease newsgroup.

    --
    Chris Ilias
    List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia

  18. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 03-04-2008 20:31 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    > On 4/3/08 2:15 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    >> On 03-04-2008 20:01 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    >>> On 4/3/08 1:47 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    >>>> On 03-04-2008 19:26 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting
    >>>> statement:
    >>>>> On 4/3/08 1:03 PM, _Pete Holsberg_ spoke thusly:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions
    >>>>>> are held.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> See
    >>>>> .
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> See these individual messages in that thread, by Gervase Markham:
    >>>>
    >>>> .
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> and the reply on that by AC (A. Chevreau?):
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> What about them?

    >>
    >> What about your reference above?

    >
    > It's a link to the very discussion, that addresses what Peter was
    > asking, and the conclusion.
    > If you're looking of support, this is the place. It doesn't matter
    > which version of Firefox you're using, just like it doesn't matter
    > which OS you're using. This is not be confused with reporting or
    > triaging bugs, which belong elsewhere.

    Users who have beta versions installed are by definition testers and
    should go to mozilla.dev.quality to discuss matters;
    Some goes for release candidates of Firefox in the interest of Quality
    Insurance for signing off the general availability.
    On Alpha version I differ in opinion, developers should go to the
    mozilla.dev.appl.firefox.

    This is what Gervase Markham has to say on a response by:

    Jay Patel:

    > I think *mozilla.dev.quality* is probably the best place for this

    type of
    > work. If people are ok with that, I welcome all testers to start
    > discussing their experience/testing with the alphas, betas, and RC1
    > here.


    *I agree*. The quality newsgroup is for whatever the QA community wants to
    or needs to discuss. If volume gets so great that people are put off
    from reading the group, then we should analyse the traffic at that time
    and look for a good way to split the group into more manageable chunks.

    Gerv

    --
    Kind regards,
    Melchert

    (MacOS 10.3.9 / Firefox 2.0, Thunderbird 2.0)

  19. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 4/4/08 1:52 PM, _Melchert Fruitema_ spoke thusly:
    > On 03-04-2008 20:31 CET, Chris Ilias composed this enchanting statement:
    >> If you're looking of support, this is the place. It doesn't matter
    >> which version of Firefox you're using, just like it doesn't matter
    >> which OS you're using. This is not be confused with reporting or
    >> triaging bugs, which belong elsewhere.

    > Users who have beta versions installed are by definition testers and
    > should go to mozilla.dev.quality to discuss matters;


    Testers need support too. :-(

    > Some goes for release candidates of Firefox in the interest of Quality
    > Insurance for signing off the general availability.
    > On Alpha version I differ in opinion, developers should go to the
    > mozilla.dev.appl.firefox.
    >
    > This is what Gervase Markham has to say on a response by:
    >
    > Jay Patel:
    >
    > > I think *mozilla.dev.quality* is probably the best place for this

    > type of
    > > work. If people are ok with that, I welcome all testers to start
    > > discussing their experience/testing with the alphas, betas, and RC1
    > > here.

    >
    > *I agree*. The quality newsgroup is for whatever the QA community wants to
    > or needs to discuss. If volume gets so great that people are put off
    > from reading the group, then we should analyse the traffic at that time
    > and look for a good way to split the group into more manageable chunks.


    Yes, that is in agreeance with what I stated.
    "This is not be confused with reporting or triaging bugs, which belong
    elsewhere."

    Just like what I stated in a recent thread

    "Discussion is split by content of discussion, not by community.
    Bug triaging: mozilla.dev.quality
    Opinions regarding code changes: mozilla.dev.apps.*
    Support for recent changes: mozilla.support.*
    Bug reports go in Bugzilla.

    For example, someone asked if it is possible to revert the behaviour of
    the location bar, back to Firefox 2. That's a support question. If the
    answer is no, and someone feels it there should be a way, that person
    should file a bug (which is where developers will see it)."
    --
    Chris Ilias
    List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia

  20. Re: Questions about beta Versions

    On 03.04.2008 19:03, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Pete Holsberg
    to generate the following:? :
    > Is it really appropriate to post questions about beta versions of FF?
    > Surely there must be another forum where beta testing discussions are held.
    >
    >

    of course, and the people who d/l the beta versions were *distinctly
    requested* to post their findings to two addresses:
    * follow-up to: mozilla.dev.planning
    * or, reply-to: dev-planning@lists.mozilla.org

    but ofcourse - they don't get the audience there that they get here!

    reg

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