Tabs not shrinking any more?!?! - Mozilla

This is a discussion on Tabs not shrinking any more?!?! - Mozilla ; Nik wrote: > "Ron Hunter" wrote in message > news:SfednRDqPLfKehPbnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d@mozilla.org. .. >> Nik wrote: >>> Thanks for the answers, but most of this is too involved for me, I am >>> short of time, and I don't trust Firefox now ...

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Thread: Tabs not shrinking any more?!?!

  1. Re: Tabs not shrinking any more?!?!

    Nik wrote:
    > "Ron Hunter" wrote in message
    > news:SfednRDqPLfKehPbnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >> Nik wrote:
    >>> Thanks for the answers, but most of this is too involved for me, I am
    >>> short of time, and I don't trust Firefox now if such fundamental changes
    >>> are forced on us.
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand what the problem was leaving it the way it was... this
    >>> smacks of change for the sake of change to me.
    >>>
    >>> Why can't the developers make an easy way to change it back in (Tools ->
    >>> Options)? Or just have left it alone.
    >>>
    >>> It's basically a PITA, and a waste of my time :-(
    >>>
    >>> KISS!

    >> Well, you know, I hate to break it to you, but you are NOT the only user
    >> in the world. I know that may be hard to take. If you are too lazy to
    >> make the necessary changes, just go back to the older version, and take
    >> your chances with any security problems you may experience.
    >> It is really more trouble to go back to the previous version than to fix
    >> the minor problems, but if you are that dead set on going back, have a
    >> ball.
    >>

    >
    > I realise this Ron, but you have to accept that I can only see things from
    > my own POV. IMHO it is lazy and inconsiderate to make such a large change
    > for the average user, then expect them to write code in files or download
    > whatever extension to 'fix' the supposed improvement. I have fixed this
    > issue now with a quick added user.js file with a little code, but TBH this
    > is not a user friendly way of doing this for average users who find it hard
    > enough to install / uninstall programs, and are not knowledgeable about
    > making settings with txt files in hidden directories. Not everyone is a
    > Linux whizzkid.
    >
    > Adding to this is my own opinion that it is NOT an improvement, and has
    > simply been thrust on users in general, may of whom will not have the time
    > or knowledge to even attempt to find a solution outside of looking in the
    > preferences file in the program.
    >
    > IMHO this was a bad decision to make default, and should be changed back in
    > future updates, and the scrolling nonsense should be turned on (by those
    > that like it) in the program preferences. IMHO it was arrogant to change the
    > functionality in such a way.
    >
    > Cheers!
    >
    >

    For those of us who don't use a lot of tabs (I rarely use more than 4),
    it is a considerable improvement. I suspect that this would be an
    advantage from the standpoint of the 'average' user, who would
    appreciate the change. I certainly like it better. I know it is hard
    to imagine that others don't use the program the same way you do, but I
    believe that using more than 6 or 7 open tabs is rather more the
    exception than the rule. I do think the developers should make
    configuration of such things easier, however.


    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  2. Re: Tabs not shrinking any more?!?!

    C.Joseph Drayton wrote:
    > Nik wrote:
    >> "Ron Hunter" wrote in message
    >> news:SfednRDqPLfKehPbnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >>> Nik wrote:
    >>>> Thanks for the answers, but most of this is too involved for me, I
    >>>> am short of time, and I don't trust Firefox now if such fundamental
    >>>> changes are forced on us.
    >>>>
    >>>> I don't understand what the problem was leaving it the way it was...
    >>>> this smacks of change for the sake of change to me.
    >>>>
    >>>> Why can't the developers make an easy way to change it back in
    >>>> (Tools -> Options)? Or just have left it alone.
    >>>>
    >>>> It's basically a PITA, and a waste of my time :-(
    >>>>
    >>>> KISS!
    >>> Well, you know, I hate to break it to you, but you are NOT the only
    >>> user in the world. I know that may be hard to take. If you are too
    >>> lazy to make the necessary changes, just go back to the older
    >>> version, and take your chances with any security problems you may
    >>> experience.
    >>> It is really more trouble to go back to the previous version than to
    >>> fix the minor problems, but if you are that dead set on going back,
    >>> have a ball.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I realise this Ron, but you have to accept that I can only see things
    >> from my own POV. IMHO it is lazy and inconsiderate to make such a
    >> large change for the average user, then expect them to write code in
    >> files or download whatever extension to 'fix' the supposed
    >> improvement. I have fixed this issue now with a quick added user.js
    >> file with a little code, but TBH this is not a user friendly way of
    >> doing this for average users who find it hard enough to install /
    >> uninstall programs, and are not knowledgeable about making settings
    >> with txt files in hidden directories. Not everyone is a Linux whizzkid.
    >>
    >> Adding to this is my own opinion that it is NOT an improvement, and
    >> has simply been thrust on users in general, may of whom will not have
    >> the time or knowledge to even attempt to find a solution outside of
    >> looking in the preferences file in the program.
    >>
    >> IMHO this was a bad decision to make default, and should be changed
    >> back in future updates, and the scrolling nonsense should be turned on
    >> (by those that like it) in the program preferences. IMHO it was
    >> arrogant to change the functionality in such a way.
    >>
    >> Cheers!
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Sometimes when a programmer makes a change like that it is because they
    > have received a number requests for such a change. How many e-mails were
    > received for the change only they know.
    >
    > Rather than being adversarial, one could simply ask them why they
    > changed it. Personally I hate the fact that tab size can change by
    > default. I just switched to Ubuntu Linux an FireFox 2.0.0.4 and just
    > found out yesterday that the number of tabs per row can be related to
    > the minimum width of tabs. To me that is silly but if that is what
    > people like and request then the programmer has a legitimate right to
    > make such a change.
    >
    > We all use generic programs like web browsers in different ways which
    > means there can not be a universal interface that everyone is going to
    > like. If the program is stable, and you like the program then it becomes
    > incumbent on the user to learn how to customize the interface.
    >
    > Ciao . . . C.Joseph
    >
    > "A promise is nothing more than an attempt,
    > to respond to an unreasonable request."
    >
    > http://blog.tlerma.com/
    > (A Windows professional's view of entering the Linux world)

    I suspect that a number of references to the lack of a close icon on
    each tab as in IE7 and Opera, and Safari, had a lot to do with the change.

    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  3. Re: Tabs not shrinking any more?!?!

    Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
    > Ron Hunter wrote:
    >> Nik wrote:
    >>> Hi,
    >>>
    >>> My Firefox has just updated to version 2.0.0.4
    >>>
    >>> I use Firefox all day for my work. My work is a fairly involved
    >>> website admin task. I loved the way that tabs on pre v2 Firefox would
    >>> shrink so I could have 20 or so tabs open in one window, as I often
    >>> needed this many open so I could refer to many pages quickly. The new
    >>> method of scrolling has totally broken my work flow now, and I will
    >>> probably have to go back to 1.5 :-(
    >>>

    >>
    >> WHY do so many people think that they must go back to an older version
    >> rather than just solving their configuration problem? What you want
    >> to do can be done rather easily with 2.0. Check the mozillazine
    >> database for how to configure your 2.0 to look like earlier versions.
    >> For those of us who don't open a ton of tabs, the new way of doing
    >> things is better. If you open a lot of tabs, you might want to
    >> configure the program to display tabs the old way.
    >>
    >>> I cannot for the life of me think why the old functionality was
    >>> thrown out. It worked great!
    >>>

    >> See answer above, and it wasn't 'thrown out', it was configured
    >> another way as default. The old functionality is still there.
    >>
    >>> I see lots of other discussions about other solutions like multiple
    >>> rows, expanding tabs etc, but TBH I think these are all solutions in
    >>> search of a problem.
    >>>
    >>> If people find they can't read the tabs, or do not have the spatial
    >>> awareness to remember what tab was what, then they should simply not
    >>> open as many tabs, or open another window.
    >>>
    >>> Scrolling the tabs is horrible. I need a compact and fast interface,
    >>> not big icons with lots of space all round them and 14 characters and
    >>> scrolling tabs jumping all over the place.
    >>>

    >> Then you will love the extension that reduces each tab to a favicon!
    >> Then you can have LOTS of tabs, in very little space.
    >>
    >>
    >>> IT WASN'T BROKEN, SO PLEASE DON'T FIX IT!
    >>>

    >>
    >> sigh.
    >> Sometimes what one considers broken another considers a better way. I
    >> like the new tab action, if you don't, then CHANGE it through the
    >> config file, or extensions, and we can both be happy.
    >>

    >
    > usually the one thinking the new way is a better design, is the
    > developer. they have no use for user input. Applications are made for
    > users to use. Not for some developer to strut his/her stuff.
    >
    >
    >
    >>> Thanks for all the hard work and the best browser, despite this hiccup.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >

    I think that the developers should do more 'market research' before
    making changes, but to call them arrogant may be a bit much. I suspect
    that they are just confident they know what the users want, and
    sometimes they miss the mark.
    Note that they thought no one would miss the 'mail' button... Grin.


    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  4. Re: Tabs not shrinking any more?!?!

    Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
    > Ron Hunter wrote:
    >> Nik wrote:
    >>> Thanks for the answers, but most of this is too involved for me, I am
    >>> short of time, and I don't trust Firefox now if such fundamental
    >>> changes are forced on us.
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand what the problem was leaving it the way it was...
    >>> this smacks of change for the sake of change to me.
    >>>
    >>> Why can't the developers make an easy way to change it back in (Tools
    >>> -> Options)? Or just have left it alone.
    >>>
    >>> It's basically a PITA, and a waste of my time :-(
    >>>
    >>> KISS!
    >>>

    >> Well, you know, I hate to break it to you, but you are NOT the only
    >> user in the world. I know that may be hard to take. If you are too
    >> lazy to make the necessary changes, just go back to the older version,
    >> and take your chances with any security problems you may experience.
    >> It is really more trouble to go back to the previous version than to
    >> fix the minor problems, but if you are that dead set on going back,
    >> have a ball.
    >>
    >>

    > My solution to the problem is I don't use tabs, noway, no how.
    >

    Well, that is up to you, but after you get used to them, they can be a
    good tool. Like most things, moderation is probably preferable.


    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  5. Re: Tabs not shrinking any more?!?!

    Ron Hunter wrote:
    > Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
    >> Ron Hunter wrote:
    >>> Nik wrote:
    >>>> Hi,
    >>>>
    >>>> My Firefox has just updated to version 2.0.0.4
    >>>>
    >>>> I use Firefox all day for my work. My work is a fairly involved
    >>>> website admin task. I loved the way that tabs on pre v2 Firefox
    >>>> would shrink so I could have 20 or so tabs open in one window, as I
    >>>> often needed this many open so I could refer to many pages quickly.
    >>>> The new method of scrolling has totally broken my work flow now, and
    >>>> I will probably have to go back to 1.5 :-(
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> WHY do so many people think that they must go back to an older
    >>> version rather than just solving their configuration problem? What
    >>> you want to do can be done rather easily with 2.0. Check the
    >>> mozillazine database for how to configure your 2.0 to look like
    >>> earlier versions. For those of us who don't open a ton of tabs, the
    >>> new way of doing things is better. If you open a lot of tabs, you
    >>> might want to configure the program to display tabs the old way.
    >>>
    >>>> I cannot for the life of me think why the old functionality was
    >>>> thrown out. It worked great!
    >>>>
    >>> See answer above, and it wasn't 'thrown out', it was configured
    >>> another way as default. The old functionality is still there.
    >>>
    >>>> I see lots of other discussions about other solutions like multiple
    >>>> rows, expanding tabs etc, but TBH I think these are all solutions in
    >>>> search of a problem.
    >>>>
    >>>> If people find they can't read the tabs, or do not have the spatial
    >>>> awareness to remember what tab was what, then they should simply not
    >>>> open as many tabs, or open another window.
    >>>>
    >>>> Scrolling the tabs is horrible. I need a compact and fast interface,
    >>>> not big icons with lots of space all round them and 14 characters
    >>>> and scrolling tabs jumping all over the place.
    >>>>
    >>> Then you will love the extension that reduces each tab to a favicon!
    >>> Then you can have LOTS of tabs, in very little space.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> IT WASN'T BROKEN, SO PLEASE DON'T FIX IT!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> sigh.
    >>> Sometimes what one considers broken another considers a better way.
    >>> I like the new tab action, if you don't, then CHANGE it through the
    >>> config file, or extensions, and we can both be happy.
    >>>

    >>
    >> usually the one thinking the new way is a better design, is the
    >> developer. they have no use for user input. Applications are made for
    >> users to use. Not for some developer to strut his/her stuff.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>> Thanks for all the hard work and the best browser, despite this hiccup.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    > I think that the developers should do more 'market research' before
    > making changes, but to call them arrogant may be a bit much. I suspect
    > that they are just confident they know what the users want, and
    > sometimes they miss the mark.
    > Note that they thought no one would miss the 'mail' button... Grin.
    >
    >

    They also missed on "grippes" in Thunderbird as well.

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Phillip M. Jones, CET mailtojones@kimbanet.com
    If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! http://www.vpea.org
    http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

  6. Re: Tabs not shrinking any more?!?!

    Phillip Jones, CET wrote:
    > Ron Hunter wrote:
    >> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
    >>> Ron Hunter wrote:
    >>>> Nik wrote:
    >>>>> Hi,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> My Firefox has just updated to version 2.0.0.4
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I use Firefox all day for my work. My work is a fairly involved
    >>>>> website admin task. I loved the way that tabs on pre v2 Firefox
    >>>>> would shrink so I could have 20 or so tabs open in one window, as I
    >>>>> often needed this many open so I could refer to many pages quickly.
    >>>>> The new method of scrolling has totally broken my work flow now,
    >>>>> and I will probably have to go back to 1.5 :-(
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> WHY do so many people think that they must go back to an older
    >>>> version rather than just solving their configuration problem? What
    >>>> you want to do can be done rather easily with 2.0. Check the
    >>>> mozillazine database for how to configure your 2.0 to look like
    >>>> earlier versions. For those of us who don't open a ton of tabs, the
    >>>> new way of doing things is better. If you open a lot of tabs, you
    >>>> might want to configure the program to display tabs the old way.
    >>>>
    >>>>> I cannot for the life of me think why the old functionality was
    >>>>> thrown out. It worked great!
    >>>>>
    >>>> See answer above, and it wasn't 'thrown out', it was configured
    >>>> another way as default. The old functionality is still there.
    >>>>
    >>>>> I see lots of other discussions about other solutions like multiple
    >>>>> rows, expanding tabs etc, but TBH I think these are all solutions
    >>>>> in search of a problem.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If people find they can't read the tabs, or do not have the spatial
    >>>>> awareness to remember what tab was what, then they should simply
    >>>>> not open as many tabs, or open another window.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Scrolling the tabs is horrible. I need a compact and fast
    >>>>> interface, not big icons with lots of space all round them and 14
    >>>>> characters and scrolling tabs jumping all over the place.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Then you will love the extension that reduces each tab to a favicon!
    >>>> Then you can have LOTS of tabs, in very little space.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> IT WASN'T BROKEN, SO PLEASE DON'T FIX IT!
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> sigh.
    >>>> Sometimes what one considers broken another considers a better way.
    >>>> I like the new tab action, if you don't, then CHANGE it through the
    >>>> config file, or extensions, and we can both be happy.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> usually the one thinking the new way is a better design, is the
    >>> developer. they have no use for user input. Applications are made for
    >>> users to use. Not for some developer to strut his/her stuff.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>> Thanks for all the hard work and the best browser, despite this
    >>>>> hiccup.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I think that the developers should do more 'market research' before
    >> making changes, but to call them arrogant may be a bit much. I
    >> suspect that they are just confident they know what the users want,
    >> and sometimes they miss the mark.
    >> Note that they thought no one would miss the 'mail' button... Grin.
    >>
    >>

    > They also missed on "grippes" in Thunderbird as well.
    >


    You can have them back with the Skypilot Classic theme, if you like
    them. Nice, well-done theme, with lots of features, and very quick
    response to changes, but not at the Mozilla theme site.


    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  7. Re: Tabs not shrinking any more?!?!

    Ron Hunter wrote:
    > Phillip Jones, CET wrote:
    >> Ron Hunter wrote:
    >>> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
    >>>> Ron Hunter wrote:
    >>>>> Nik wrote:
    >>>>>> Hi,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> My Firefox has just updated to version 2.0.0.4
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I use Firefox all day for my work. My work is a fairly involved
    >>>>>> website admin task. I loved the way that tabs on pre v2 Firefox
    >>>>>> would shrink so I could have 20 or so tabs open in one window, as
    >>>>>> I often needed this many open so I could refer to many pages
    >>>>>> quickly. The new method of scrolling has totally broken my work
    >>>>>> flow now, and I will probably have to go back to 1.5 :-(
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> WHY do so many people think that they must go back to an older
    >>>>> version rather than just solving their configuration problem? What
    >>>>> you want to do can be done rather easily with 2.0. Check the
    >>>>> mozillazine database for how to configure your 2.0 to look like
    >>>>> earlier versions. For those of us who don't open a ton of tabs,
    >>>>> the new way of doing things is better. If you open a lot of tabs,
    >>>>> you might want to configure the program to display tabs the old way.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I cannot for the life of me think why the old functionality was
    >>>>>> thrown out. It worked great!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> See answer above, and it wasn't 'thrown out', it was configured
    >>>>> another way as default. The old functionality is still there.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I see lots of other discussions about other solutions like
    >>>>>> multiple rows, expanding tabs etc, but TBH I think these are all
    >>>>>> solutions in search of a problem.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If people find they can't read the tabs, or do not have the
    >>>>>> spatial awareness to remember what tab was what, then they should
    >>>>>> simply not open as many tabs, or open another window.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Scrolling the tabs is horrible. I need a compact and fast
    >>>>>> interface, not big icons with lots of space all round them and 14
    >>>>>> characters and scrolling tabs jumping all over the place.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> Then you will love the extension that reduces each tab to a
    >>>>> favicon! Then you can have LOTS of tabs, in very little space.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> IT WASN'T BROKEN, SO PLEASE DON'T FIX IT!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> sigh.
    >>>>> Sometimes what one considers broken another considers a better
    >>>>> way. I like the new tab action, if you don't, then CHANGE it
    >>>>> through the config file, or extensions, and we can both be happy.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> usually the one thinking the new way is a better design, is the
    >>>> developer. they have no use for user input. Applications are made
    >>>> for users to use. Not for some developer to strut his/her stuff.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Thanks for all the hard work and the best browser, despite this
    >>>>>> hiccup.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> I think that the developers should do more 'market research' before
    >>> making changes, but to call them arrogant may be a bit much. I
    >>> suspect that they are just confident they know what the users want,
    >>> and sometimes they miss the mark.
    >>> Note that they thought no one would miss the 'mail' button... Grin.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> They also missed on "grippes" in Thunderbird as well.
    >>

    >
    > You can have them back with the Skypilot Classic theme, if you like
    > them. Nice, well-done theme, with lots of features, and very quick
    > response to changes, but not at the Mozilla theme site.
    >
    >


    I already use it. On SM/FF/and TB. Just for Grippies alone I'd recommend
    downloading it and ditch the Modern or Classic Themes, as soon as possible.

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
    If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
    http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
    Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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