Good time to move to TB on Vista? - Mozilla

This is a discussion on Good time to move to TB on Vista? - Mozilla ; How well is Thunderbird working on Vista? How does the transition from Vista's Windows Mail work in terms of importing existing messages, accounts and contacts? How well can Thunderbird be customized to work on an 800 x 600 display? (I ...

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Thread: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

  1. Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    How well is Thunderbird working on Vista?

    How does the transition from Vista's Windows Mail work in terms of importing
    existing messages, accounts and contacts?

    How well can Thunderbird be customized to work on an 800 x 600 display? (I
    tried Windows Live Mail at 800 x 600 and it was terrible, as described at
    www.segal.org/tablet/live/).

    Is Thunderbird 3 coming out as soon as Firefox 3, or will there be a much
    longer wait?



  2. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    "Mickey Segal" wrote:

    > How well is Thunderbird working on Vista?


    Thunderbird works exactly the same on Vista as it does on XP, great
    email client, totally sucks as a newsreader.

    > How does the transition from Vista's Windows Mail work in terms of
    > importing existing messages, accounts and contacts?


    Same as importing from XP's OE.

    > How well can Thunderbird be customized to work on an 800 x 600
    > display? (I tried Windows Live Mail at 800 x 600 and it was
    > terrible, as described at www.segal.org/tablet/live/).


    Possible, you'd have to try it and see if it suits your needs.

    > Is Thunderbird 3 coming out as soon as Firefox 3, or will there be
    > a much longer wait?


    Don't know but you're welcome to start your own rumor!



  3. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    > "Mickey Segal" wrote:
    >> Is Thunderbird 3 coming out as soon as Firefox 3, or will there be
    >> a much longer wait?

    >
    > Don't know but you're welcome to start your own rumor!


    Is there a Thunderbird 3 beta out yet? If Thunderbird 2 "totally sucks as a
    newsreader" it would be good to know of progress on newsreader functionality
    before ditching Vista's Windows Mail.


  4. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mickey Segal keyboarded, On 4/21/2008 3:21 PM :
    >> "Mickey Segal" wrote:
    >>> Is Thunderbird 3 coming out as soon as Firefox 3, or will there be
    >>> a much longer wait?

    >>
    >> Don't know but you're welcome to start your own rumor!

    >
    > Is there a Thunderbird 3 beta out yet? If Thunderbird 2 "totally
    > sucks as a newsreader" it would be good to know of progress on
    > newsreader functionality before ditching Vista's Windows Mail.


    The unofficial goal is to release Tb3 late in the year. Do not expect a
    Beta till about July. What is in the works is an Alpha in the next few
    weeks.

    What "Sucks" about Tb2 News is it's filtering. That is being addressed
    with some patches now being tested in the nightly builds.

    FYI, I have Tb running on Vista Home Basic without any problems. I just
    despise Vista because it is not like Windows ME.

    --
    Ron K.
    Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
    Kernel Restore reported BSOD use by Major Error to msg the enemy!

  5. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    "Mickey Segal" wrote:

    >> "Mickey Segal" wrote:
    >>> Is Thunderbird 3 coming out as soon as Firefox 3, or will there
    >>> be a much longer wait?

    >>
    >> Don't know but you're welcome to start your own rumor!

    >
    > Is there a Thunderbird 3 beta out yet?


    http://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Thunderbird3

    > If Thunderbird 2 "totally sucks as a newsreader" it would be good
    > to know of progress on newsreader functionality before ditching
    > Vista's Windows Mail.


    Thunderbird 2 totally sucks as a newsreader but nowhere did I say it
    was anywhere near as bad as Windows Mail or OE!

    Anything (except Google Groups) is better than Windows Mail or OE.

    However, both T'burp and WM/OE share one failing, neither can properly
    killfile or scorefile which makes them useless to me as newsreaders.



    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://improve-usenet.org

  6. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    "Ron K." wrote:

    > FYI, I have Tb running on Vista Home Basic without any problems.
    > I just despise Vista because it is not like Windows ME.


    It isn't like TRSDOS either but I've learned to live with it...




    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://improve-usenet.org

  7. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Could you explain what you mean by "filtering"? It doesn't sound like
    something I depend on, but it would be good to know what it is before trying
    TB.

    My main motivation for ditching Vista's Windows Mail is that it is a dead
    end, and such software tends to develop problems. There are a few
    annoyances to Windows Mail (the funniest is the typing your name backwards
    workaround in Contacts detailed at www.segal.org/vista/) and no one cares
    about fixing them.

    "Ron K." wrote in message
    news:YsydnQkbqebcb5HVnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    > What "Sucks" about Tb2 News is it's filtering. That is being addressed
    > with some patches now being tested in the nightly builds.



  8. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mickey Segal keyboarded, On 4/21/2008 5:35 PM :
    > Could you explain what you mean by "filtering"? It doesn't sound like
    > something I depend on, but it would be good to know what it is before
    > trying TB.
    >
    > My main motivation for ditching Vista's Windows Mail is that it is a
    > dead end, and such software tends to develop problems. There are a
    > few annoyances to Windows Mail (the funniest is the typing your name
    > backwards workaround in Contacts detailed at www.segal.org/vista/) and
    > no one cares about fixing them.
    >
    > "Ron K." wrote in message
    > news:YsydnQkbqebcb5HVnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >> What "Sucks" about Tb2 News is it's filtering. That is being
    >> addressed with some patches now being tested in the nightly builds.

    >


    Single purpose newsreaders such as Xnews offer a "Kill File" function
    which is really a filter that intercepts messages that match a pattern
    and does not display it in the threads view. Another example would be
    to apply a Tag or a color label to preferred matches.

    The Mail reader has had filtering which permits many actions such as
    moving messages between folder. When the Mozilla.Org project started up
    many features were deliberately postponed. I doubt that those making
    the decisions expected it would take 8-9 years for some of the
    postponements to be worked on.

    --
    Ron K.
    Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
    Kernel Restore reported BSOD use by Major Error to msg the enemy!

  9. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    XS11E keyboarded, On 4/21/2008 4:13 PM :
    > "Mickey Segal" wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> "Mickey Segal" wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Is Thunderbird 3 coming out as soon as Firefox 3, or will there
    >>>> be a much longer wait?
    >>>>
    >>> Don't know but you're welcome to start your own rumor!
    >>>

    >> Is there a Thunderbird 3 beta out yet?
    >>

    >
    > http://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Thunderbird3
    >
    >
    >> If Thunderbird 2 "totally sucks as a newsreader" it would be good
    >> to know of progress on newsreader functionality before ditching
    >> Vista's Windows Mail.
    >>

    >
    > Thunderbird 2 totally sucks as a newsreader but nowhere did I say it
    > was anywhere near as bad as Windows Mail or OE!
    >
    > Anything (except Google Groups) is better than Windows Mail or OE.
    >
    > However, both T'burp and WM/OE share one failing, neither can properly
    > killfile or scorefile which makes them useless to me as newsreaders.


    When the Tb3a1 becomes available You can try its Kill function. The
    backend patch is being tested now in the nightlies. The front end UI
    patch is in the works. Bugzilla Bug
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11054

    --
    Ron K.
    Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
    Kernel Restore reported BSOD use by Major Error to msg the enemy!

  10. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    "Mickey Segal" wrote:

    > Could you explain what you mean by "filtering"? It doesn't sound
    > like something I depend on, but it would be good to know what it
    > is before trying TB.


    Filtering is a way of eliminating what you don't want, just as a coffee
    filter keeps the grounds out of the coffee, a newsreader needs a means
    of preventing unwanted messages from being seen. Notice my signature,
    I kill posts originating from Google Groups as that's the source of a
    huge amount of Usenet spam. Xnews has a killfile/bozobin/plonkfile
    that allows me to eliminate all posts from a specific person and it
    also allows scoring with is a feature that lets me assign a score to
    messages. I assign -9999 to posts from Google Grouper so that I don't
    see their posts and a score of -5000 to replies to posts from Google
    Groupers so that they're flagged but I can read them if I want to.
    Scoring also does the reverse, it allows me to assign a higher score to
    posts or threads I want to follow.

    Probably a better explaination here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorefile

    BTW, I think T'burp is pretty weak on email filtering as well but I use
    an external program, POPFile, to catch spam emails.


    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://improve-usenet.org

  11. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    On 21.04.2008 14:16, XS11E wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > Thunderbird works exactly the same on Vista as it does on XP, great
    > email client, totally sucks as a newsreader.


    Why?

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  12. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    > > Thunderbird works exactly the same on Vista as it does on XP, great
    > > email client, totally sucks as a newsreader.

    >
    > Why?


    Some possible reasons (discussed recently over in
    mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird):

    (1) TB works in online mode by default with all Usenet servers and
    newsgroups, meaning that messages have to be downloaded anew for each
    session in which they are viewed. Each newsgroup can be switched over to
    'offline use' mode (where messages are kept between sessions) but it
    seems a little odd to me that an inherently offline mail/newsgroup/RSS
    client like TB defaults to online mode.

    (2) There is no 'Automatically download new messages' option for
    newsgroups. Even when a newsgroup is set for 'offline use' messages are
    still only downloaded and kept offline when you actually read each one
    individually. Surely it would be more consistent for newsgroups to work
    more like POP3 accounts?

    I.e. Provide an 'Automatically download new messages' option for news
    servers allowing newsgroup messages to be downloaded and stored locally
    in advance. This would avoid the annoying delay that one currently
    experiences in some cases when clicking on a newsgroup and waiting for
    its (I presume) new headers to download.

    (3) There is no way to selectively delete messages in newsgroups! Is
    this really true - have I missed the feature? It seems like a very odd
    feature to miss out. Why is this? It means that a busy newsgroup quickly
    becomes 'over-crowded' with messages that you may not be interested in.

    (4) Old newsgroup messages can be purged to keep 'over-crowding' down
    but there is no way to indicate that you wish to /keep/ some messages.

    (5) When you unsubscribe from a newsgroup all its messages are deleted
    (even when you've selected it for 'offline use'). This is bizarre
    behaviour for an offline mail/news client. Surely the previously
    downloaded messages should be kept, even when no longer subscribed to
    the group?



    MarkR


  13. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mark Rousell keyboarded, On 4/21/2008 9:03 PM :
    >>> Thunderbird works exactly the same on Vista as it does on XP, great
    >>> email client, totally sucks as a newsreader.
    >>>

    >> Why?
    >>

    >
    > Some possible reasons (discussed recently over in
    > mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird):
    >
    > (1) TB works in online mode by default with all Usenet servers and
    > newsgroups, meaning that messages have to be downloaded anew for each
    > session in which they are viewed. Each newsgroup can be switched over to
    > 'offline use' mode (where messages are kept between sessions) but it
    > seems a little odd to me that an inherently offline mail/newsgroup/RSS
    > client like TB defaults to online mode.
    >
    > (2) There is no 'Automatically download new messages' option for
    > newsgroups. Even when a newsgroup is set for 'offline use' messages are
    > still only downloaded and kept offline when you actually read each one
    > individually. Surely it would be more consistent for newsgroups to work
    > more like POP3 accounts?
    >
    > I.e. Provide an 'Automatically download new messages' option for news
    > servers allowing newsgroup messages to be downloaded and stored locally
    > in advance. This would avoid the annoying delay that one currently
    > experiences in some cases when clicking on a newsgroup and waiting for
    > its (I presume) new headers to download.
    >
    > (3) There is no way to selectively delete messages in newsgroups! Is
    > this really true - have I missed the feature? It seems like a very odd
    > feature to miss out. Why is this? It means that a busy newsgroup quickly
    > becomes 'over-crowded' with messages that you may not be interested in.
    >


    Check out the activity on this bug. The backend patch has landed and
    front end work is in progress.
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11054

    > (4) Old newsgroup messages can be purged to keep 'over-crowding' down
    > but there is no way to indicate that you wish to /keep/ some messages.
    >


    Yes there is, copy to an archive folder. This may also be one of the
    enhancements to the News filtering that are in progress for news.

    > (5) When you unsubscribe from a newsgroup all its messages are deleted
    > (even when you've selected it for 'offline use'). This is bizarre
    > behaviour for an offline mail/news client. Surely the previously
    > downloaded messages should be kept, even when no longer subscribed to
    > the group?
    >
    >
    > MarkR



    --
    Ron K.
    Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
    Kernel Restore reported BSOD use by Major Error to msg the enemy!

  14. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    XS11E wrote:
    > Thunderbird works exactly the same on Vista as it does on XP, great
    > email client, totally sucks as a newsreader.

    I hear this a lot. I'm curious, what is it about TB as a news reader
    that you find totally sucks? IOW what functionality of other news
    readers do you see that you just have to have that TB doesn't do?
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    Why isn't 11 pronounced "onety one"?


  15. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Ron K. wrote:
    > Single purpose newsreaders such as Xnews offer a "Kill File" function
    > which is really a filter that intercepts messages that match a pattern
    > and does not display it in the threads view. Another example would be
    > to apply a Tag or a color label to preferred matches.

    Hmmmm... My TB can do both of those...
    > The Mail reader has had filtering which permits many actions such as
    > moving messages between folder. When the Mozilla.Org project started
    > up many features were deliberately postponed. I doubt that those
    > making the decisions expected it would take 8-9 years for some of the
    > postponements to be worked on.

    Still don't get it. AFAICT you're main gripe is that you say TB can't do
    a kill file - but it does. Or it can't color things - but it can...
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    If a person with multiple personalities threatens suicide, is that
    considered a hostage situation?


  16. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mark Rousell wrote:
    >>> Thunderbird works exactly the same on Vista as it does on XP, great
    >>> email client, totally sucks as a newsreader.

    >> Why?

    > Some possible reasons (discussed recently over in
    > mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird):
    >
    > (1) TB works in online mode by default with all Usenet servers and
    > newsgroups, meaning that messages have to be downloaded anew for each
    > session in which they are viewed. Each newsgroup can be switched over
    > to 'offline use' mode (where messages are kept between sessions) but
    > it seems a little odd to me that an inherently offline mail/newsgroup/RSS
    > client like TB defaults to online mode.

    Huh? I know about "offline mode" but I've really never used it. To me
    it's an asset that TB defaults to being in online mode. IOW I have 0
    need for the above.
    > (2) There is no 'Automatically download new messages' option for
    > newsgroups.

    Again - Huh? There's a check for new messages every x minutes in the
    account settings. Or did you mean that it doesn't download the body of
    the message automatically? If so then good! There are way more messages
    that I don't care about the body than messages that I do. Downloading
    stuff I don't want to read is a waste of time.
    > Even when a newsgroup is set for 'offline use' messages are still only
    > downloaded and kept offline when you actually read each one individually.

    Exactly! And why should it be any other way? I *scan *newsgroups - not
    read each and every message religiously. Truth be told there is way more
    junk or at least uninteresting garbage being posted than stuff I need
    downloaded for quick access. I *want* to only download messages IFF I
    signal that I want to read it.
    > Surely it would be more consistent for newsgroups to work more like
    > POP3 accounts?

    Ah... no.
    > I.e. Provide an 'Automatically download new messages' option for news
    > servers allowing newsgroup messages to be downloaded and stored
    > locally in advance. This would avoid the annoying delay that one
    > currently experiences in some cases when clicking on a newsgroup and
    > waiting for its (I presume) new headers to download.

    This would be totally useless and a waste of bandwidth for most users.
    > (3) There is no way to selectively delete messages in newsgroups! Is
    > this really true - have I missed the feature? It seems like a very odd
    > feature to miss out. Why is this? It means that a busy newsgroup
    > quickly becomes 'over-crowded' with messages that you may not be
    > interested in.

    Yes but we want to make sure we download all of that useless information
    locally first right? You contradict yourself within a paragraph or two.
    You don't delete messages in a news group any more than you delete posts
    in a forum.
    > (4) Old newsgroup messages can be purged to keep 'over-crowding' down
    > but there is no way to indicate that you wish to /keep/ some messages.

    You wish to keep a message? Copy it to a local folder. Pretty easy eh?
    > (5) When you unsubscribe from a newsgroup all its messages are
    > deleted (even when you've selected it for 'offline use'). This is
    > bizarre behaviour for an offline mail/news client. Surely the
    > previously downloaded messages should be kept, even when no longer
    > subscribed to the group?

    Again, I have no use for offline messages and quite frankly I rarely, if
    at all, feel compelled to get a personal copy of a Usenet message. Seems
    to me like you're not understanding what offline use is for. Again, if
    you wish to copy messages from Usenet to your personal machine you can
    do so. It's not the norm however or at least it's not my norm.
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?


  17. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mickey Segal wrote:
    > Could you explain what you mean by "filtering"? It doesn't sound like
    > something I depend on, but it would be good to know what it is before
    > trying TB.
    >
    > My main motivation for ditching Vista's Windows Mail is that it is a
    > dead end, and such software tends to develop problems. There are a
    > few annoyances to Windows Mail (the funniest is the typing your name
    > backwards workaround in Contacts detailed at www.segal.org/vista/) and
    > no one cares about fixing them.
    >
    > "Ron K." wrote in message
    > news:YsydnQkbqebcb5HVnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >> What "Sucks" about Tb2 News is it's filtering. That is being
    >> addressed with some patches now being tested in the nightly builds.

    Bottom line is: IF your current newsreader is Windows Mail, NOT a
    problem, TB provides better capabilities than OE or WM.

    Most of what people complains about are 'Special' stuff, used by 10% of
    the people .... not to worry.


  18. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    On 21.04.2008 21:47, XS11E wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > markr-usenet@signal100.com (Mark Rousell) wrote:
    >
    >>> > Thunderbird works exactly the same on Vista as it does on XP,
    >>> > great email client, totally sucks as a newsreader.
    >>>
    >>> Why?

    >>
    >> Some possible reasons (discussed recently over in
    >> mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird):
    >>
    >> (1) TB works in online mode by default with all Usenet servers and
    >> newsgroups, meaning that messages have to be downloaded anew for
    >> each session in which they are viewed. Each newsgroup can be
    >> switched over to 'offline use' mode (where messages are kept
    >> between sessions) but it seems a little odd to me that an
    >> inherently offline mail/newsgroup/RSS client like TB defaults to
    >> online mode.
    >>
    >> (2) There is no 'Automatically download new messages' option for
    >> newsgroups. Even when a newsgroup is set for 'offline use'
    >> messages are still only downloaded and kept offline when you
    >> actually read each one individually. Surely it would be more
    >> consistent for newsgroups to work more like POP3 accounts?
    >>
    >> I.e. Provide an 'Automatically download new messages' option for
    >> news servers allowing newsgroup messages to be downloaded and
    >> stored locally in advance. This would avoid the annoying delay
    >> that one currently experiences in some cases when clicking on a
    >> newsgroup and waiting for its (I presume) new headers to download.
    >>
    >> (3) There is no way to selectively delete messages in newsgroups!
    >> Is this really true - have I missed the feature? It seems like a
    >> very odd feature to miss out. Why is this? It means that a busy
    >> newsgroup quickly becomes 'over-crowded' with messages that you
    >> may not be interested in.
    >>
    >> (4) Old newsgroup messages can be purged to keep 'over-crowding'
    >> down but there is no way to indicate that you wish to /keep/ some
    >> messages.
    >>
    >> (5) When you unsubscribe from a newsgroup all its messages are
    >> deleted (even when you've selected it for 'offline use'). This is
    >> bizarre behaviour for an offline mail/news client. Surely the
    >> previously downloaded messages should be kept, even when no longer
    >> subscribed to the group?

    >
    > All of the above and no scoring.. plus an OE looking UI.


    1. Works in "online" mode by default.

    Well of course it does, how else can you download messages unless
    you're ONLINE ???

    2. Sure there is. But act like a POP server ?? no, 'fraid not.

    3. You can't delete newsgroup messages, they reside on the server. You
    can't delete messages that reside on somebody else's server. You only
    download the headers followed by reading the message off the server.
    Marking as READ effectively removes the message and header.

    4. Sure you can /keep/ any message locally after downloading.

    5. If you've downloaded a group of messages for offline reading you can
    keep those same messages after unsubscribing. Ever heard of "Local Folders"?

    So, do you have any original thoughts other than those posted above by
    someone else? Dunno about the OE UI, never used OE, it's not on my
    system. And besides ... so what? Re: scoring .. install XNews, IMHO it's
    a useless feature.

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  19. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Jay Garcia wrote:

    > So, do you have any original thoughts other than those posted
    > above by someone else?


    Yes, as posted, didn't you read before replying?

    > Dunno about the OE UI, never used OE, it's not on my system. And
    > besides ... so what?


    So it's an unacceptable UI, why should T'bird emulate it?

    > Re: scoring .. install XNews, IMHO it's a useless feature.


    I use Xnews, don't you read headers? Scoring is the difference between
    usable and not usable in a newsreader.

    Your opinion is pretty weird, you're either a newbie to Usenet or you
    really enjoy spam.




    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://improve-usenet.org

  20. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    XS11E wrote:
    >> Dunno about the OE UI, never used OE, it's not on my system. And
    >> besides ... so what?

    > So it's an unacceptable UI, why should T'bird emulate it?

    Whatever you do please don't tell us any exact or specific facts about
    why you find the UI, either OE or TB, unacceptable. It's much more fun
    to guess!
    >> Re: scoring .. install XNews, IMHO it's a useless feature.

    > I use Xnews, don't you read headers?

    Normally no! I read the body. The real question is why you seem to find
    the headers fascinating...
    > Scoring is the difference between usable and not usable in a newsreader.

    Demonstrably false as many (most?) don't even us it.
    > Your opinion is pretty weird, you're either a newbie to Usenet or you
    > really enjoy spam.

    Oh yeah, Jay's a real newbie for sure...
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those
    who do not possess it.


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