Good time to move to TB on Vista? - Mozilla

This is a discussion on Good time to move to TB on Vista? - Mozilla ; On 22.04.2008 14:35, Mark Rousell wrote: --- Original Message --- >> > If a message is downloaded locally, which is specifically what is >> > being discussed here, then there should be no reason at all to not be >> ...

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Thread: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

  1. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    On 22.04.2008 14:35, Mark Rousell wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    >> > If a message is downloaded locally, which is specifically what is
    >> > being discussed here, then there should be no reason at all to not be
    >> > able to delete it selectively.

    >>
    >> Sure, you can delete anything locally.

    >
    > But not for individual messages in NNTP folders, not even in folders
    > selected for what TB calls 'offline use'.


    Yes you can if store downloaded messages in other folders.

    >> As I mentioned in another reply, enter RFE's.

    >
    > I shall do. :-)


    Kewl .. good luck. Post your tracking links here so we can follow the
    action. ;-)

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  2. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    On 22.04.2008 14:35, Mark Rousell wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    >> It looks to me like you want NNTP to behave like
    >> IMAP not POP.

    >
    > No, to be precise I want the optional ability for Thunderbird to work with
    > NNTP in *exactly* the same way that it already works with POP3. I.e.
    > a) Optional automatic downloading of message bodies (just like POP3).


    How do you plan to address the issue of unwanted posts/replies/spam,
    etc. when you automagically download news posts/replies/threads?

    > b) An option to disable realtime lookup of new message headers when
    > clicking on a newsgroup folder (just like how POP3 folders always work,
    > even when TB is in online mode).
    > c) The ability to selectively delete individual locally stored messages
    > (just like POP3 messages).


    That's a bunch of RFE stuff, good luck on finding someone to take on the
    task.

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  3. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    > How do you plan to address the issue of unwanted posts/replies/spam,
    > etc. when you automagically download news posts/replies/threads?


    Exactly the same way that they're handled already in POP3. How else would
    you expect to do it with this way of working?

    For example: If you don't like an existing message, or a thread, or a
    subthread you can just delete it, just as with POP3. Alternatively the
    'ignore thread' feature which is under development for NNTP could hide a
    thread or subthread so you don't have to be bothered by it.


    MarkR


  4. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mickey Segal wrote:
    > How well is Thunderbird working on Vista?
    >
    > How does the transition from Vista's Windows Mail work in terms of
    > importing existing messages, accounts and contacts?
    >
    > How well can Thunderbird be customized to work on an 800 x 600
    > display? (I tried Windows Live Mail at 800 x 600 and it was terrible,
    > as described at www.segal.org/tablet/live/).
    >
    > Is Thunderbird 3 coming out as soon as Firefox 3, or will there be a
    > much longer wait?
    >
    >

    using TB on vista for more than half year ok
    it does provide more things to manage than Wmail

    in terms of importing you may end up here asking for some things
    (usefull extensions etc), and for contacts, well, one downside would be
    not to have them available to the sistem as you have it today (for all
    soft like office etc) you may need one extension to make available more
    fields in the contacts

    you may want to try this first to see if it goes well for 800x600
    as about v3, there will be important changes ..

  5. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    On 22.04.2008 18:37, Mark Rousell wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    >> How do you plan to address the issue of unwanted posts/replies/spam,
    >> etc. when you automagically download news posts/replies/threads?


    > Exactly the same way that they're handled already in POP3. How else would
    > you expect to do it with this way of working?


    I own mailservers with 18,000+ users. I run SpamAssassin and ClamAV that
    reject spam/viruses, etc. Neither one of those applications will handle
    NNTP. So ... what's your plan for filtering news?


    > For example: If you don't like an existing message, or a thread, or a
    > subthread you can just delete it, just as with POP3. Alternatively the
    > 'ignore thread' feature which is under development for NNTP could hide a
    > thread or subthread so you don't have to be bothered by it.


    The most effective plan is to reject it prior to downloading, that's how
    POP3 works with SpamAssassin/Procmail, etc. You can't do that with NNTP
    that I am aware of. Only thing you can do is to rely on the server
    owner/admin to employ rejection techniques on posters after the fact for
    future posts, etc. How do you intend to "train" your NNTP rejection
    mechanism so that you don't have to be bothered with manual removals?

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  6. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    "ovidiu" wrote in message
    news:XvudneTWLZue4pPVnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    > in terms of importing you may end up here asking for some things (usefull
    > extensions etc), and for contacts, well, one downside would be not to have
    > them available to the sistem as you have it today (for all soft like
    > office etc) you may need one extension to make available more fields in
    > the contacts


    Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?


  7. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mark Rousell wrote:
    >> What is so "clumsy" about Drag'n'Drop to "Local Folders"??

    > If you've selected a newsgroup folder for 'offline use' then it seems
    > reasonable to me to expect it to function as exactly that: An offline
    > (i.e. local, in TB terms) folder. In other words, it seems to me to be
    > logical and consistent for it to function just like folders containing
    > items downloaded via POP3.
    >
    > In brief, all I'd like is the (optional) ability to use NNTP in
    > Thunderbird in exactly the same way that POP3 already works in
    > Thunderbird.

    You didn't answer the question! Try again!
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    Why doesn't the glue stick to the inside of the bottle?


  8. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Jay Garcia wrote:
    > The most effective plan is to reject it prior to downloading, that's
    > how POP3 works with SpamAssassin/Procmail, etc. You can't do that with
    > NNTP that I am aware of.

    Sure you could! NNTP is just another protocol. You can query things like
    headers and the like and determine whether or not you wish to download
    and store the message body. It's just that nobody's written the code to
    do that.
    > Only thing you can do is to rely on the server owner/admin to employ
    > rejection techniques on posters after the fact for future posts, etc.

    Not really. Again, TB could query the news server, get headers and the
    like and employ filtering techniques. It could even download the message
    body and do junk mail filters and the like then decide to either present
    or not present the message to the user (or store or not store the
    message in the offline storage). Nobody, save you Jay, is saying that
    this can't be done, because it can.
    > How do you intend to "train" your NNTP rejection mechanism so that you
    > don't have to be bothered with manual removals?

    One need not be bothered with "manual removals" if the receiving
    mechanism for NNTP did the work of downloading headers, possibly bodies,
    applying filters, kills, ignores and junk mail filtering then either
    presenting or not presenting in online mode or storing or not storing in
    offline mode. This is all totally doable and if you were a coder Jay
    you'd recognize that.
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    E-mail returned to sender -- insufficient voltage.


  9. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mickey Segal wrote:
    > "ovidiu" wrote in message
    > news:XvudneTWLZue4pPVnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >> in terms of importing you may end up here asking for some things
    >> (usefull extensions etc), and for contacts, well, one downside would
    >> be not to have them available to the sistem as you have it today (for
    >> all soft like office etc) you may need one extension to make
    >> available more fields in the contacts

    >
    > Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?

    $ cat /abook.mab

    ?
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman where the Self Help
    section was, she said if she told me it would defeat the purpose


  10. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Andrew DeFaria wrote:
    > Mickey Segal wrote:
    >> "ovidiu" wrote in message
    >> news:XvudneTWLZue4pPVnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >>> in terms of importing you may end up here asking for some things
    >>> (usefull extensions etc), and for contacts, well, one downside would
    >>> be not to have them available to the sistem as you have it today
    >>> (for all soft like office etc) you may need one extension to make
    >>> available more fields in the contacts

    >>
    >> Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?

    > $ cat /abook.mab
    >
    > ?
    > --
    > Andrew DeFaria
    > I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman where the Self Help
    > section was, she said if she told me it would defeat the purpose

    well, I think OP is looking for a more usable, normal way.


  11. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mickey Segal wrote:
    > "ovidiu" wrote in message
    > news:XvudneTWLZue4pPVnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >> in terms of importing you may end up here asking for some things
    >> (usefull extensions etc), and for contacts, well, one downside would
    >> be not to have them available to the sistem as you have it today (for
    >> all soft like office etc) you may need one extension to make
    >> available more fields in the contacts

    >
    > Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?

    AFAIK no. The contacts is actually an area that is undergoing big
    changes in this very moment, one of the reasons being the communication
    to other soft or OS.

    If you do need that kind of contacts "in the sistem" may have to wait a
    bit. I rarely need that, but depends on the usage. You can export those
    contacts though and there may be some workarounds I don't know of ..

    Still say that you should try it. Get a gmail for testing it, even have
    your current mail msg auto forwarded to that gmail to compare the way
    you manage the msg in both apps. BTW, there is also a calendaring
    extension if you use that ..

  12. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Ron K. wrote:

    >
    > FYI, I have Tb running on Vista Home Basic without any problems. I just
    > despise Vista because it is not like Windows ME.
    >


    What!?

    I despise Vista /because/ it is a dead-duck OS, /just like/ Windows ME.

  13. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Mickey Segal wrote:
    >
    > Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?
    >


    http://kb.mozillazine.org/Start_Addr...m_command_line

    thunderbird.exe -addressbook

    or

    "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe" -addressbook

    Note that you can also create a new shortcut, and assign it the above
    command line.

    --
    Alex K.

  14. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    On 23.04.2008 00:58, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Jay Garcia to
    generate the following:? :
    > On 22.04.2008 14:35, Mark Rousell wrote:
    >
    > --- Original Message ---
    >
    >
    >>>> If a message is downloaded locally, which is specifically what is
    >>>> being discussed here, then there should be no reason at all to not be
    >>>> able to delete it selectively.
    >>>>
    >>> Sure, you can delete anything locally.
    >>>

    >> But not for individual messages in NNTP folders, not even in folders
    >> selected for what TB calls 'offline use'.
    >>

    >
    > Yes you can if store downloaded messages in other folders.
    >
    >
    >>> As I mentioned in another reply, enter RFE's.
    >>>

    >> I shall do. :-)
    >>

    >
    > Kewl .. good luck. Post your tracking links here so we can follow the
    > action. ;-)
    >
    >


    Jay, that was /cruel/ to us old guys.... you know darned well that any
    bug reported now will still be there in 7-8-9 years time, waiting.
    We'all just ain't got that long any more!

    reg

  15. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    On 23.04.2008 03:50, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Mickey Segal
    to generate the following:? :
    > "ovidiu" wrote in message
    > news:XvudneTWLZue4pPVnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >
    >> in terms of importing you may end up here asking for some things (usefull
    >> extensions etc), and for contacts, well, one downside would be not to have
    >> them available to the sistem as you have it today (for all soft like
    >> office etc) you may need one extension to make available more fields in
    >> the contacts
    >>

    >
    > Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?
    >
    >


    yepp.....
    1) copy your TB icon (on your desktop)
    2) right click the new icon and open Properties
    3) edit the Target line to read:
    "D:\Thunderbird 1.5.0.8\thunderbird.exe" -addressbook
    (insert your own path)
    4) OK out!

    reg

  16. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    On 23.04.2008 11:01, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Alex K. to
    generate the following:? :
    > Mickey Segal wrote:
    >
    >> Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > http://kb.mozillazine.org/Start_Addr...m_command_line
    >
    > thunderbird.exe -addressbook
    >
    > or
    >
    > "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe" -addressbook
    >
    > Note that you can also create a new shortcut, and assign it the above
    > command line.
    >
    >


    oooopppssss - sorry, Alex - I just plagiated your solution...

    reg

  17. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Alex K."
    > http://kb.mozillazine.org/Start_Addr...m_command_line


    Thanks. This looks like what I need. It makes sense to have one address
    book, regardless of whether you are trying to send an email or look up a
    telephone number.


  18. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Jay Garcia wrote:
    > On 23.04.2008 00:47, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
    >> Jay Garcia wrote:
    >>> The most effective plan is to reject it prior to downloading, that's
    >>> how POP3 works with SpamAssassin/Procmail, etc. You can't do that
    >>> with NNTP that I am aware of.

    >> Sure you could! NNTP is just another protocol. You can query things
    >> like headers and the like and determine whether or not you wish to
    >> download and store the message body. It's just that nobody's written
    >> the code to do that.

    > You could have shortened your paragraph to "Sure you could, if someone
    > were to write the code". :-) But they haven't, so you can't.

    And you could have shortened your paragraph to "Yes, you're right!".

    What the hell are you talking about Jay! One need not have a working
    implementation of something to see that it is indeed a possibility! And
    lack of a working implementation does not infer that it can't be done.
    What school did you go to?
    > Again, nobody has written the code so therefore as it stands, it can't
    > be accomplished.

    Huh? That doesn't follow at all. It makes absolutely no sense. If nobody
    has written the code all it means, and I repeat ALL it means, is that
    nobody has written the code yet (and for all we know somebody has
    written the code already but we haven't heard of it). You have an
    extremely odd definition of "can't". I suggest picking up a dictionary.
    The code is easily doable and just requires a little effort. Nothing
    about it qualifies it for the word "can't".
    > Don't have to be a coder to understand logic.

    Yes but it's required that you are logical, which, by the above foolery,
    it's plain you aren't (or you're just being deceptive again and bending
    words into unnatural definitions because you can't admit you were wrong
    to start with).
    > And yes, it would be nice to do it and implement.

    But Jay? How can that be done?!? I mean you just got through telling us
    that it can't be done. Which is it? It can or can't be done?
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    He's not dead, he's electroencephalographically challenged.


  19. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    ovidiu wrote:
    > Andrew DeFaria wrote:
    >> Mickey Segal wrote:
    >>> "ovidiu" wrote in message
    >>> news:XvudneTWLZue4pPVnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@mozilla.org. ..
    >>>> in terms of importing you may end up here asking for some things
    >>>> (usefull extensions etc), and for contacts, well, one downside
    >>>> would be not to have them available to the sistem as you have it
    >>>> today (for all soft like office etc) you may need one extension to
    >>>> make available more fields in the contacts
    >>>
    >>> Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?

    >> $ cat /abook.mab
    >>
    >> ?
    >> --
    >> Andrew DeFaria
    >> I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman where the Self Help
    >> section was, she said if she told me it would defeat the purpose

    > well, I think OP is looking for a more usable, normal way.

    Oh please forgive me that the OP was unclear! I know that that was all
    my fault!

    Search for MORK database with Google and write a Perl script to extract
    the data in a "prettier" format if you want.
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power
    to make you commit injustices.


  20. Re: Good time to move to TB on Vista?

    Alex K. wrote:
    > Mickey Segal wrote:
    >> Is there a way to see your contacts without having to open TB?
    >>

    > http://kb.mozillazine.org/Start_Addr...m_command_line
    >
    > thunderbird.exe -addressbook
    >
    > or
    >
    > "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe" -addressbook
    >
    > Note that you can also create a new shortcut, and assign it the above
    > command line.

    But won't that be "having to open TB"? I mean the OP didn't give much in
    the way of requirements but he did state that he didn't want to open TB.
    --
    Andrew DeFaria
    When it's your lie, you can tell it any way you want


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