send a link... and how long is it valid - Mozilla

This is a discussion on send a link... and how long is it valid - Mozilla ; Hi all. I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only provides "send a link", I have been doing that more frequently. My question is: 1. how long before the link to the web page ...

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  1. send a link... and how long is it valid

    Hi all.
    I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
    provides "send a link", I have been doing that more frequently. My
    question is:
    1. how long before the link to the web page is changed, or the web page
    is changed?

    2. why did FF not include send a page?

    3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?

    Thanks,
    Peter

  2. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    On 4/17/2006 8:41 PM PeterInMn scribbled:

    > Hi all.
    > I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
    > provides "send a link",


    save the page as a file and send that as attachment - why do you want to
    send a web page??
    you like wasting bandwidth?

    I have been doing that more frequently.

    you should break that habit...

    My
    > question is:
    > 1. how long before the link to the web page is changed, or the web page
    > is changed?


    no answer to that question - could be 1 second - could be years...

    >
    > 2. why did FF not include send a page?


    probably because most folks don't do things that way - a link is the way
    most do it...

    >
    > 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?


    I for one am not a lawyer, so maybe you'd better talk to one.
    The recipient could sue /you/ for stupidity...

    >
    > Thanks,
    > Peter


  3. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    _PeterInMn_ spoke thusly on 17/04/2006 11:41 PM:
    > I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
    > provides "send a link", I have been doing that more frequently. My
    > question is:
    > 1. how long before the link to the web page is changed, or the web page
    > is changed?


    That is completely dependent on the website author.

    > 2. why did FF not include send a page?


    Send page does not work with most mail clients.
    One thing you can do is save the page to your hard drive, and attach the
    file to your message.

    > 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?


    I have no idea. :-)
    --
    Chris Ilias
    mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
    Mozilla links
    (Please do not email me tech support questions)

  4. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    Chris Ilias wrote:
    >> 2. why did FF not include send a page?

    >
    > Send page does not work with most mail clients.
    > One thing you can do is save the page to your hard drive, and attach the
    > file to your message.


    Another thing you can do is switch to the SeaMonkey suite, which
    includes a "Send Page" command. I just wrote about this in my
    blog in this item:

    SeaMonkey Suite 1.0.1 and Send This Page



    >> 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?

    >
    > I have no idea. :-)


    Not if you keep it in your own personal email repository or wiki
    or whatever *that is not available to the public*.


    Nancy
    Infinite Ink:
    Deflexion & Reflexion:

    --
    Sent via SeaMonkey Suite

  5. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    NM Public wrote:
    > Chris Ilias wrote:
    >>> 2. why did FF not include send a page?

    >>
    >> Send page does not work with most mail clients.
    >> One thing you can do is save the page to your hard drive, and attach
    >> the file to your message.

    >
    > Another thing you can do is switch to the SeaMonkey suite, which
    > includes a "Send Page" command. I just wrote about this in my blog in
    > this item:
    >
    > SeaMonkey Suite 1.0.1 and Send This Page
    >
    >
    >
    > >> 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?

    > >
    > > I have no idea. :-)

    >
    > Not if you keep it in your own personal email repository or wiki or
    > whatever *that is not available to the public*.
    >
    >
    > Nancy
    > Infinite Ink:
    > Deflexion & Reflexion:
    >

    Nancy,
    thansk for the advice. Good links.
    Yours,
    Peter

  6. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    jg wrote:
    > On 4/17/2006 8:41 PM PeterInMn scribbled:
    >
    >> Hi all.
    >> I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
    >> provides "send a link",

    >
    > save the page as a file and send that as attachment - why do you want to
    > send a web page??
    > you like wasting bandwidth?
    >
    > I have been doing that more frequently.
    >
    > you should break that habit...
    >
    > My
    >> question is:
    >> 1. how long before the link to the web page is changed, or the web page
    >> is changed?

    >
    > no answer to that question - could be 1 second - could be years...
    >
    >> 2. why did FF not include send a page?

    >
    > probably because most folks don't do things that way - a link is the way
    > most do it...
    >
    >> 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?

    >
    > I for one am not a lawyer, so maybe you'd better talk to one.
    > The recipient could sue /you/ for stupidity...
    >
    >> Thanks,
    >> Peter

    Jg,
    bandwidth aside, the web changes too fast for a simple link to be sent.
    For example, a link to the front page of any web newspaper will change
    by the next morning, right? Seamonkey retains this feature, IE retains
    this feature, FF has menus to open up TB and send links or email, so it
    should be a simple thing to add a "send page as email" menu. Lastyl,
    high speed bandwith is the wave of the future, and dial up is going to
    fade away. Bandwidth worries are pretty much a thing of the past or for
    distant rural areas, it seems to me.
    Yours in stupidity,
    Peter

  7. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    PeterInMn wrote:
    > NM Public wrote:
    >> Chris Ilias wrote:
    >>>> 2. why did FF not include send a page?
    >>>
    >>> Send page does not work with most mail clients.
    >>> One thing you can do is save the page to your hard drive, and attach
    >>> the file to your message.

    >>
    >> Another thing you can do is switch to the SeaMonkey suite, which
    >> includes a "Send Page" command. I just wrote about this in my blog in
    >> this item:
    >>
    >> SeaMonkey Suite 1.0.1 and Send This Page
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> >> 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?
    >> >
    >> > I have no idea. :-)

    >>
    >> Not if you keep it in your own personal email repository or wiki or
    >> whatever *that is not available to the public*.
    >>
    >>
    >> Nancy
    >> Infinite Ink:
    >> Deflexion & Reflexion:
    >>

    > Nancy,
    > thansk for the advice. Good links.
    > Yours,
    > Peter


    You might also want to check out what the authors modestly call the
    'Amazing webpage emailer' extension at
    https://addons.mozilla.org/addon.php?id=886

    It's not ideal, because you have to go through a website to email a
    page, but it does the trick.

    Steve

  8. drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    On 4/18/2006 5:05 AM PeterInMn scribbled:

    > jg wrote:
    >> On 4/17/2006 8:41 PM PeterInMn scribbled:
    >>
    >>> Hi all.
    >>> I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
    >>> provides "send a link",

    >> save the page as a file and send that as attachment - why do you want to
    >> send a web page??
    >> you like wasting bandwidth?
    >>
    >> I have been doing that more frequently.
    >>
    >> you should break that habit...
    >>
    >> My
    >>> question is:
    >>> 1. how long before the link to the web page is changed, or the web page
    >>> is changed?

    >> no answer to that question - could be 1 second - could be years...
    >>
    >>> 2. why did FF not include send a page?

    >> probably because most folks don't do things that way - a link is the way
    >> most do it...
    >>
    >>> 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?

    >> I for one am not a lawyer, so maybe you'd better talk to one.
    >> The recipient could sue /you/ for stupidity...
    >>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> Peter

    > Jg,
    > bandwidth aside, the web changes too fast for a simple link to be sent.
    > For example, a link to the front page of any web newspaper will change
    > by the next morning, right? Seamonkey retains this feature, IE retains
    > this feature, FF has menus to open up TB and send links or email, so it
    > should be a simple thing to add a "send page as email" menu. Lastyl,
    > high speed bandwith is the wave of the future, and dial up is going to
    > fade away. Bandwidth worries are pretty much a thing of the past or for
    > distant rural areas, it seems to me.
    > Yours in stupidity,
    > Peter


    I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need to do
    so, I would send it as a file.
    I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
    web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public domain,
    somewhat like a newspaper?
    Forgive the stupidity crack - I had just read a few inane/arcane posts.
    I know more than a few folks that would flip at receiving a webpage,
    but I suppose if one were expecting it that wouldn't be the case,
    I went through Nancy's links but I'm not a sys admin, which it appears
    to be aimed at, but that could be wrong as well.
    Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some post there?

  9. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    jg wrote:
    >
    > Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some post there?


    I use my wiki as a place to store notes, ideas, web pages, etc.
    that are about things that I'm researching and that I will maybe
    eventually write about on one of my public web sites. Lots of web
    pages disappear so I like to keep my own personal archive of
    useful web pages. Now that disk space is virtually free, it's
    very easy to do this. For example, my viaVerio Signature Hosting
    account, which just a few years ago included 25 MB of space, now
    includes 10 Gigabytes (10,240,000 MB) of space. About the
    legalities: It is not legal to *publicly* re-publish other
    people's web pages unless they have explicitly licensed them that
    way, e.g., with a Creative Commons license that allows
    re-publication.

    I hope this makes sense. BTW, if anyone is interested, I will
    eventually publish the scripts that I use to convert email
    messages to wiki content.

    Nancy
    Infinite Ink:
    Deflexion & Reflexion:

    --
    Sent with SeaMonkey Suite

  10. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    PeterInMn wrote:


    > bandwidth aside, the web changes too fast for a simple link to be sent.
    > For example, a link to the front page of any web newspaper will change
    > by the next morning, right?


    Yes; which is why most sources of fast-changing data on the web
    offer a secondary link on main pages that is -persistent-.

    > Lastly, high speed bandwith is the wave of the future, and dial up is
    > going to fade away.


    Actually, while higher-bandwidth communications can be
    reasonably called "the wave of the future", it could be
    still be -decades- away for many people. The technology
    is not as much a hurdle in the US as the economics.

    > Bandwidth worries are pretty much a thing of the past or for
    > distant rural areas, it seems to me.


    Sorry, you're wrong. Bandwidth worries are -still- a concern
    in many urban areas in the US, and even more of a problem in
    non-western nations.

    It seems what you are really implying is that among urban
    US users who have similar interests to yours, bandwidth is
    not a consideration.


  11. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    PeterInMn wrote:
    > Hi all.
    > I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
    > provides "send a link", I have been doing that more frequently.


    Take heed:

    The amazing webpage emailer!
    --
    Pete Holsberg
    Columbus, NJ

    "Having a smoking area in a restaurant is like having a peeing area in a pool." - Thomas Pfeffer, American Heart Association

  12. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    jg wrote:

    >
    > I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need to do
    > so, I would send it as a file.
    > I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
    > web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public domain,
    > somewhat like a newspaper?
    >

    that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
    registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain either,
    its copyrighted material.

    --
    Things to Ponder about: Can a hearse carrying a corpse drive in the
    carpool lane?

  13. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    On 4/18/2006 9:20 AM NM Public scribbled:

    > jg wrote:
    >> Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some post there?

    >
    > I use my wiki as a place to store notes, ideas, web pages, etc.
    > that are about things that I'm researching and that I will maybe
    > eventually write about on one of my public web sites. Lots of web
    > pages disappear so I like to keep my own personal archive of
    > useful web pages. Now that disk space is virtually free, it's
    > very easy to do this. For example, my viaVerio Signature Hosting
    > account, which just a few years ago included 25 MB of space, now
    > includes 10 Gigabytes (10,240,000 MB) of space.


    So you prefer storing that data on the web rather than your own HD...
    aren't you concerned about security of that data, in this day and age?

    About the
    > legalities: It is not legal to *publicly* re-publish other
    > people's web pages unless they have explicitly licensed them that
    > way, e.g., with a Creative Commons license that allows
    > re-publication.


    Ok, I can see that. Thought the OP inquired about emailing web pages,
    not publishing them - unless, we (tinw) talking mailing list here.
    Guess that may be different...

    >
    > I hope this makes sense. BTW, if anyone is interested, I will
    > eventually publish the scripts that I use to convert email
    > messages to wiki content.


    If I should ever get to that stage, I'll get back to you.

    tnx for the input
    jg


    >
    > Nancy
    > Infinite Ink:
    > Deflexion & Reflexion:
    >


  14. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    On 4/18/2006 11:08 AM gwtc scribbled:

    > jg wrote:
    >
    >> I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need to do
    >> so, I would send it as a file.
    >> I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
    >> web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public domain,
    >> somewhat like a newspaper?
    >>

    > that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
    > registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain either,
    > its copyrighted material.
    >

    yabbut, I never saw/heard of anyone get in trouble for clipping articles
    and senting them to friends and relatives.
    I was thinking of the social side of email and I guess the OP had
    something more/else in mind. The Creative Commons license mention later
    tipped me off.

  15. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    jg wrote:
    > On 4/18/2006 11:08 AM gwtc scribbled:
    >
    >> jg wrote:
    >>
    >>> I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need to do
    >>> so, I would send it as a file.
    >>> I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
    >>> web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public domain,
    >>> somewhat like a newspaper?
    >>>

    >> that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
    >> registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain either,
    >> its copyrighted material.
    >>

    > yabbut, I never saw/heard of anyone get in trouble for clipping articles
    > and senting them to friends and relatives.
    > I was thinking of the social side of email and I guess the OP had
    > something more/else in mind. The Creative Commons license mention later
    > tipped me off.

    JG,
    I'll pick up where you originally left off. I think it is pretty Okay
    to send pages as email without fear of legal reprisals, but I think
    strictly technically, it could be illegal to reproduce PUBLICLY
    copyrighted material. By publicly, I mean for wide dissemination. I
    know copyright law allows portions of text to be reproduced for
    scholarly work, but I do not think it allows whole articles to be
    reproduced and copied multiple times for others to see. Maybe this is
    why Nancy means as long as the article or page show up in your email
    repository (?), it is Okay to send web pages. I am sorry if I seem to
    making a big deal of this, but I have two concerns: 1. Trying to be
    adherent to the law in a reasonable manner, and 2, trying to preserve
    others intellectual creations in fairness (such as music or lyric
    copyrights). As regards the newspapers, I think it is fair to send
    their email pages around, as they have advertisements supporting their
    work, and ultimately get credit with fame and fortune for good and
    enriching articles, vis a vie, more viewers to their newspapers. When
    the attorneys get involved, all common sense goes out the window!
    Yours, maybe a little less stupid,
    Peter

  16. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    PeterInMn wrote:
    > jg wrote:
    >> On 4/18/2006 11:08 AM gwtc scribbled:
    >>
    >>> jg wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need
    >>>> to do
    >>>> so, I would send it as a file.
    >>>> I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
    >>>> web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public
    >>>> domain,
    >>>> somewhat like a newspaper?
    >>>>
    >>> that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
    >>> registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain either,
    >>> its copyrighted material.
    >>>

    >> yabbut, I never saw/heard of anyone get in trouble for clipping articles
    >> and senting them to friends and relatives.
    >> I was thinking of the social side of email and I guess the OP had
    >> something more/else in mind. The Creative Commons license mention later
    >> tipped me off.

    > JG,
    > I'll pick up where you originally left off. I think it is pretty Okay
    > to send pages as email without fear of legal reprisals, but I think
    > strictly technically, it could be illegal to reproduce PUBLICLY
    > copyrighted material. By publicly, I mean for wide dissemination. I
    > know copyright law allows portions of text to be reproduced for
    > scholarly work, but I do not think it allows whole articles to be
    > reproduced and copied multiple times for others to see. Maybe this is
    > why Nancy means as long as the article or page show up in your email
    > repository (?), it is Okay to send web pages. I am sorry if I seem to
    > making a big deal of this, but I have two concerns: 1. Trying to be
    > adherent to the law in a reasonable manner, and 2, trying to preserve
    > others intellectual creations in fairness (such as music or lyric
    > copyrights). As regards the newspapers, I think it is fair to send
    > their email pages around, as they have advertisements supporting their
    > work, and ultimately get credit with fame and fortune for good and
    > enriching articles, vis a vie, more viewers to their newspapers. When
    > the attorneys get involved, all common sense goes out the window!
    > Yours, maybe a little less stupid,
    > Peter


    All work on web pages is protected. If you copy material, then you MAY
    be liable for copyright and/or intellectual property lawsuits. "Fair
    Use" doctrine still applies, but is generally more restrictive than most
    people think.

    Claiming that an article 'shows up' in your email, and is therefore
    'free' to copy is nonsense.
    If I photocopied an entire book and sent it to you, I am still breaking
    the law, and you still have no right to distribute it. Two wrongs dont
    make a right.

    Any person, or organization that puts up a web site 'invested' their
    time and effort into it. By copying it verbatim, you are in effect
    'stealing' their work. If they give you permission, then all is well,
    but you have to ask first.

    Web pages change, and so do links. Of course, thats the intent of the
    design. Claiming that you send web pages because the links may go out of
    date is nonsense. Thats like claiming you can photocopy a book in its
    entirety because it may go 'out of print' or is 'out of print'.

  17. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    > PeterInMn wrote:
    >> jg wrote:
    >>> On 4/18/2006 11:08 AM gwtc scribbled:
    >>>
    >>>> jg wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need
    >>>>> to do
    >>>>> so, I would send it as a file.
    >>>>> I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
    >>>>> web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public
    >>>>> domain,
    >>>>> somewhat like a newspaper?
    >>>>>
    >>>> that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
    >>>> registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain either,
    >>>> its copyrighted material.
    >>>>
    >>> yabbut, I never saw/heard of anyone get in trouble for clipping articles
    >>> and senting them to friends and relatives.
    >>> I was thinking of the social side of email and I guess the OP had
    >>> something more/else in mind. The Creative Commons license mention later
    >>> tipped me off.

    >> JG,
    >> I'll pick up where you originally left off. I think it is pretty Okay
    >> to send pages as email without fear of legal reprisals, but I think
    >> strictly technically, it could be illegal to reproduce PUBLICLY
    >> copyrighted material. By publicly, I mean for wide dissemination. I
    >> know copyright law allows portions of text to be reproduced for
    >> scholarly work, but I do not think it allows whole articles to be
    >> reproduced and copied multiple times for others to see. Maybe this is
    >> why Nancy means as long as the article or page show up in your email
    >> repository (?), it is Okay to send web pages. I am sorry if I seem to
    >> making a big deal of this, but I have two concerns: 1. Trying to be
    >> adherent to the law in a reasonable manner, and 2, trying to preserve
    >> others intellectual creations in fairness (such as music or lyric
    >> copyrights). As regards the newspapers, I think it is fair to send
    >> their email pages around, as they have advertisements supporting their
    >> work, and ultimately get credit with fame and fortune for good and
    >> enriching articles, vis a vie, more viewers to their newspapers. When
    >> the attorneys get involved, all common sense goes out the window!
    >> Yours, maybe a little less stupid,
    >> Peter

    >
    > All work on web pages is protected. If you copy material, then you MAY
    > be liable for copyright and/or intellectual property lawsuits. "Fair
    > Use" doctrine still applies, but is generally more restrictive than most
    > people think.
    >
    > Claiming that an article 'shows up' in your email, and is therefore
    > 'free' to copy is nonsense.
    > If I photocopied an entire book and sent it to you, I am still breaking
    > the law, and you still have no right to distribute it. Two wrongs dont
    > make a right.
    >
    > Any person, or organization that puts up a web site 'invested' their
    > time and effort into it. By copying it verbatim, you are in effect
    > 'stealing' their work. If they give you permission, then all is well,
    > but you have to ask first.
    >
    > Web pages change, and so do links. Of course, thats the intent of the
    > design. Claiming that you send web pages because the links may go out of
    > date is nonsense. Thats like claiming you can photocopy a book in its
    > entirety because it may go 'out of print' or is 'out of print'.

    Great. But then the issue, and legal matter is, what is fair use. So,
    you agree that some sending of some copyrighted material is permissible,
    yes? I don't think forwarding of portions of newspaper article is
    forbidden, but maybe the whole article is, but I doubt it. I would agree
    there may be problems with hard copying and reproducing hundreds of
    copies of a web page and distributing them to a group meeting, but I do
    not think it is forbidden to send one copy to a friend or relative to
    point some interesting thing out to them.
    Yours,
    In legal quandries,
    Peter

  18. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    PeterInMn wrote:
    > Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >> PeterInMn wrote:
    >>> jg wrote:
    >>>> On 4/18/2006 11:08 AM gwtc scribbled:
    >>>>
    >>>>> jg wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need
    >>>>>> to do
    >>>>>> so, I would send it as a file.
    >>>>>> I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages -
    >>>>>> isn't a
    >>>>>> web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public
    >>>>>> domain,
    >>>>>> somewhat like a newspaper?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
    >>>>> registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain
    >>>>> either, its copyrighted material.
    >>>>>
    >>>> yabbut, I never saw/heard of anyone get in trouble for clipping
    >>>> articles
    >>>> and senting them to friends and relatives.
    >>>> I was thinking of the social side of email and I guess the OP had
    >>>> something more/else in mind. The Creative Commons license mention
    >>>> later
    >>>> tipped me off.
    >>> JG,
    >>> I'll pick up where you originally left off. I think it is pretty
    >>> Okay to send pages as email without fear of legal reprisals, but I
    >>> think strictly technically, it could be illegal to reproduce
    >>> PUBLICLY copyrighted material. By publicly, I mean for wide
    >>> dissemination. I know copyright law allows portions of text to be
    >>> reproduced for scholarly work, but I do not think it allows whole
    >>> articles to be reproduced and copied multiple times for others to
    >>> see. Maybe this is why Nancy means as long as the article or page
    >>> show up in your email repository (?), it is Okay to send web pages.
    >>> I am sorry if I seem to making a big deal of this, but I have two
    >>> concerns: 1. Trying to be adherent to the law in a reasonable
    >>> manner, and 2, trying to preserve others intellectual creations in
    >>> fairness (such as music or lyric copyrights). As regards the
    >>> newspapers, I think it is fair to send their email pages around, as
    >>> they have advertisements supporting their work, and ultimately get
    >>> credit with fame and fortune for good and enriching articles, vis a
    >>> vie, more viewers to their newspapers. When the attorneys get
    >>> involved, all common sense goes out the window!
    >>> Yours, maybe a little less stupid,
    >>> Peter

    >>
    >> All work on web pages is protected. If you copy material, then you
    >> MAY be liable for copyright and/or intellectual property lawsuits.
    >> "Fair Use" doctrine still applies, but is generally more restrictive
    >> than most people think.
    >>
    >> Claiming that an article 'shows up' in your email, and is therefore
    >> 'free' to copy is nonsense.
    >> If I photocopied an entire book and sent it to you, I am still
    >> breaking the law, and you still have no right to distribute it. Two
    >> wrongs dont make a right.
    >>
    >> Any person, or organization that puts up a web site 'invested' their
    >> time and effort into it. By copying it verbatim, you are in effect
    >> 'stealing' their work. If they give you permission, then all is well,
    >> but you have to ask first.
    >>
    >> Web pages change, and so do links. Of course, thats the intent of the
    >> design. Claiming that you send web pages because the links may go out
    >> of date is nonsense. Thats like claiming you can photocopy a book in
    >> its entirety because it may go 'out of print' or is 'out of print'.

    > Great. But then the issue, and legal matter is, what is fair use.
    > So, you agree that some sending of some copyrighted material is
    > permissible, yes? I don't think forwarding of portions of newspaper
    > article is forbidden, but maybe the whole article is, but I doubt it.
    > I would agree there may be problems with hard copying and reproducing
    > hundreds of copies of a web page and distributing them to a group
    > meeting, but I do not think it is forbidden to send one copy to a
    > friend or relative to point some interesting thing out to them.
    > Yours,
    > In legal quandries,
    > Peter

    Better minds than mine have considered the question
    http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/intellec...y/copypol2.htm

    The original 'fair use' as regards to copyrighted material
    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html


  19. Re: drifting OT Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    > PeterInMn wrote:
    >> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>> PeterInMn wrote:
    >>>> jg wrote:
    >>>>> On 4/18/2006 11:08 AM gwtc scribbled:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> jg wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need
    >>>>>>> to do
    >>>>>>> so, I would send it as a file.
    >>>>>>> I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages -
    >>>>>>> isn't a
    >>>>>>> web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public
    >>>>>>> domain,
    >>>>>>> somewhat like a newspaper?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>> that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
    >>>>>> registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain
    >>>>>> either, its copyrighted material.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> yabbut, I never saw/heard of anyone get in trouble for clipping
    >>>>> articles
    >>>>> and senting them to friends and relatives.
    >>>>> I was thinking of the social side of email and I guess the OP had
    >>>>> something more/else in mind. The Creative Commons license mention
    >>>>> later
    >>>>> tipped me off.
    >>>> JG,
    >>>> I'll pick up where you originally left off. I think it is pretty
    >>>> Okay to send pages as email without fear of legal reprisals, but I
    >>>> think strictly technically, it could be illegal to reproduce
    >>>> PUBLICLY copyrighted material. By publicly, I mean for wide
    >>>> dissemination. I know copyright law allows portions of text to be
    >>>> reproduced for scholarly work, but I do not think it allows whole
    >>>> articles to be reproduced and copied multiple times for others to
    >>>> see. Maybe this is why Nancy means as long as the article or page
    >>>> show up in your email repository (?), it is Okay to send web pages.
    >>>> I am sorry if I seem to making a big deal of this, but I have two
    >>>> concerns: 1. Trying to be adherent to the law in a reasonable
    >>>> manner, and 2, trying to preserve others intellectual creations in
    >>>> fairness (such as music or lyric copyrights). As regards the
    >>>> newspapers, I think it is fair to send their email pages around, as
    >>>> they have advertisements supporting their work, and ultimately get
    >>>> credit with fame and fortune for good and enriching articles, vis a
    >>>> vie, more viewers to their newspapers. When the attorneys get
    >>>> involved, all common sense goes out the window!
    >>>> Yours, maybe a little less stupid,
    >>>> Peter
    >>>
    >>> All work on web pages is protected. If you copy material, then you
    >>> MAY be liable for copyright and/or intellectual property lawsuits.
    >>> "Fair Use" doctrine still applies, but is generally more restrictive
    >>> than most people think.
    >>>
    >>> Claiming that an article 'shows up' in your email, and is therefore
    >>> 'free' to copy is nonsense.
    >>> If I photocopied an entire book and sent it to you, I am still
    >>> breaking the law, and you still have no right to distribute it. Two
    >>> wrongs dont make a right.
    >>>
    >>> Any person, or organization that puts up a web site 'invested' their
    >>> time and effort into it. By copying it verbatim, you are in effect
    >>> 'stealing' their work. If they give you permission, then all is
    >>> well, but you have to ask first.
    >>>
    >>> Web pages change, and so do links. Of course, thats the intent of
    >>> the design. Claiming that you send web pages because the links may
    >>> go out of date is nonsense. Thats like claiming you can photocopy a
    >>> book in its entirety because it may go 'out of print' or is 'out of
    >>> print'.

    >> Great. But then the issue, and legal matter is, what is fair use. So,
    >> you agree that some sending of some copyrighted material is
    >> permissible, yes? I don't think forwarding of portions of newspaper
    >> article is forbidden, but maybe the whole article is, but I doubt it.
    >> I would agree there may be problems with hard copying and reproducing
    >> hundreds of copies of a web page and distributing them to a group
    >> meeting, but I do not think it is forbidden to send one copy to a
    >> friend or relative to point some interesting thing out to them.
    >> Yours,
    >> In legal quandries,
    >> Peter

    > Better minds than mine have considered the question
    > http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/intellec...y/copypol2.htm
    >
    > The original 'fair use' as regards to copyrighted material
    > http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
    >

    From http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

    The distinction between “fair use” and infringement may be unclear and
    not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or
    notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the
    source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining
    permission.

    Obtain permission, and all is well.

  20. Re: send a link... and how long is it valid

    _PeterInMn_ spoke thusly on 18/04/2006 8:05 AM:
    > bandwidth aside, the web changes too fast for a simple link to be sent.
    > For example, a link to the front page of any web newspaper will change
    > by the next morning, right?


    I can't think of one news site that doesn't provide permanent links to
    each news item.
    --
    Chris Ilias
    mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
    Mozilla links
    (Please do not email me tech support questions)

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