Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird - Mozilla

This is a discussion on Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird - Mozilla ; Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote: > how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks! On Computer World's website too. http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list This just sucks. -- + + + + + + + + + + + + + ...

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Thread: Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

  1. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    > how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks!


    On Computer World's website too.

    http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list


    This just sucks.



    --

    + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
    Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
    chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes

    You always have freedom of choice, but you never have freedom of
    consequence.

  2. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Chris Barnes wrote:
    > Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >> how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks!

    >
    > On Computer World's website too.
    >
    > http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list
    >
    >
    > This just sucks.
    >
    >
    >


    A web browser without a companion mail client really does "just suck."
    I love Thunderbird and Firefox.

  3. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Tonya Marshall wrote:
    > Chris Barnes wrote:
    >> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>> how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks!

    >>
    >> On Computer World's website too.
    >>
    >> http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> This just sucks.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > A web browser without a companion mail client really does "just suck." I
    > love Thunderbird and Firefox.


    I guess the rss duplication issue will never be fixed now

  4. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Tonya Marshall wrote:

    > Chris Barnes wrote:
    >> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>> how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks!

    >>
    >> On Computer World's website too.
    >>
    >> http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list
    >>
    >>
    >> This just sucks.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    > A web browser without a companion mail client really does "just suck."


    Why? To me, a "browser without a companion mail client" from the same
    developer is like a dog without a pogo stick. In other words, it can be
    a perfectly good browser (and FF is, indeed, my favorite) without an
    unrelated tool. Some software analogies would be a word processor
    without a Pac-Man simulation and a paint program without a spreadsheet
    module. I've said for years that the browser houses (to include Opera)
    should focus on their browsers.


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html


  5. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    On 7/26/2007 6:42 PM, Tonya Marshall wrote:
    > Chris Barnes wrote:
    >> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>> how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks!

    >>
    >> On Computer World's website too.
    >>
    >> http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> This just sucks.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > A web browser without a companion mail client really does "just suck." I
    > love Thunderbird and Firefox.


    Just be patient - these so-called articles on what other people are
    saying are IMO a rather poor representation of what is going on. It'll
    all get sorted out in due time for the better I think.

  6. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Wayne Mery wrote:
    > On 7/26/2007 6:42 PM, Tonya Marshall wrote:
    >> Chris Barnes wrote:
    >>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>>> how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks!
    >>>
    >>> On Computer World's website too.
    >>>
    >>> http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> This just sucks.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> A web browser without a companion mail client really does "just suck."
    >> I love Thunderbird and Firefox.

    >
    > Just be patient - these so-called articles on what other people are
    > saying are IMO a rather poor representation of what is going on. It'll
    > all get sorted out in due time for the better I think.

    Yeah, I guess that depends on who is doing the sorting, and what the motivation is.
    http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitch...l_futures.html
    http://scott-macgregor.org/blog/
    http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=22235

    Joe

  7. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > Tonya Marshall wrote:
    >
    >> Chris Barnes wrote:
    >>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>>> how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks!
    >>> On Computer World's website too.
    >>>
    >>> http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> This just sucks.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >> A web browser without a companion mail client really does "just suck."

    >
    > Why? To me, a "browser without a companion mail client" from the same
    > developer is like a dog without a pogo stick. In other words, it can be
    > a perfectly good browser (and FF is, indeed, my favorite) without an
    > unrelated tool. Some software analogies would be a word processor
    > without a Pac-Man simulation and a paint program without a spreadsheet
    > module. I've said for years that the browser houses (to include Opera)
    > should focus on their browsers.
    >


    You're right but at the moment if I had to give up either Thunderbird or
    Firefox, it would be the browser that would lose out. Switching
    e-mail/newsreader clients is too much of a pain in the butt.

    Ann

    --
    Remove the FISH from the net to reply

  8. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    On 27.07.2007 17:00, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Annailis to
    generate the following:? :
    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >> Tonya Marshall wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Chris Barnes wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> how about providing a link to the original article? Thanks!
    >>>>>
    >>>> On Computer World's website too.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://computerworld.com/action/arti...intsrc=hm_list
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> This just sucks.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> A web browser without a companion mail client really does "just suck."
    >>>

    >> Why? To me, a "browser without a companion mail client" from the same
    >> developer is like a dog without a pogo stick. In other words, it can be
    >> a perfectly good browser (and FF is, indeed, my favorite) without an
    >> unrelated tool. Some software analogies would be a word processor
    >> without a Pac-Man simulation and a paint program without a spreadsheet
    >> module. I've said for years that the browser houses (to include Opera)
    >> should focus on their browsers.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > You're right but at the moment if I had to give up either Thunderbird or
    > Firefox, it would be the browser that would lose out. Switching
    > e-mail/newsreader clients is too much of a pain in the butt.
    >
    > Ann
    >
    >

    yepp, Ann, especially as there are several very good stand-alone
    browsers out there... including Netscape 9!

    reg

  9. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    In message Annailis
    wrote:

    >You're right but at the moment if I had to give up either Thunderbird or
    >Firefox, it would be the browser that would lose out. Switching
    >e-mail/newsreader clients is too much of a pain in the butt.


    I'd agree, although for different reasons. For me, switching mail
    clients is fairly trivial, everything is on the server (IMAP and SyncML)

    However, there simply aren't any other IMAP clients that I like.
    Firefox, while being a great browser, hasn't shown itself to be 100%
    safe or reliable (okay, nobody ever promised or believed it would be),
    and has gotten slower and slower over the versions (which was Phoenix's
    initial calling, at least for me)

    So while I certainly don't have or foresee a FF vs TB argument at any
    point, I'd choose TB over FB if it came down to it, there are other
    browser options out there.

    --
    If quitters never win, and winners never quit,
    what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?

  10. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    JoeS wrote:
    > Yeah, I guess that depends on who is doing the sorting, and what the motivation is.
    > http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitch...l_futures.html
    > http://scott-macgregor.org/blog/
    > http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=22235



    Wow - tons of comments there in just 1 day. Here is my .02 I just added:

    Ok, I'm going to come at this from a somewhat different perspective.
    Unlike some of you who seem to have "google hate" (something I find
    amazing), where I see the biggest need for the market is in a client
    which runs on the user's local machine, but keeps it's data **AND
    PROFILE SETTINGS** on a free, public server.

    Note that I'm talking about more than just email here. A client for
    Email (accessing Gmail via Imap). A client for a Calendar app (nothing
    exists, but would be easy to integrate into Google/Calendar. Another
    app for a full blown (outlook-like) Contacts list (probably ldap based)
    - nothing exists for this *anywhere*.

    Personally, I like having separate, stand-alone clients that happen to
    "know about" each other - but if someone wants an integrated app (ala
    SeaMonkey) that is fine too.


    Note that all of these client/server apps very well could have a revenue
    stream attached to them (as they are accessing google - or some other
    online provider). What is astounding to me is that noone else has
    thought of this..


    --

    + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
    Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
    chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes

    You always have freedom of choice, but you never have freedom of
    consequence.

  11. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Chris Barnes wrote:
    > JoeS wrote:
    >> Yeah, I guess that depends on who is doing the sorting, and what the
    >> motivation is.
    >> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitch...l_futures.html
    >>
    >> http://scott-macgregor.org/blog/
    >> http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=22235

    >
    >
    > Wow - tons of comments there in just 1 day. Here is my .02 I just added:
    >
    > Ok, I'm going to come at this from a somewhat different perspective.
    > Unlike some of you who seem to have "google hate" (something I find
    > amazing), where I see the biggest need for the market is in a client
    > which runs on the user's local machine, but keeps it's data **AND
    > PROFILE SETTINGS** on a free, public server.
    >
    > Note that I'm talking about more than just email here. A client for
    > Email (accessing Gmail via Imap). A client for a Calendar app (nothing
    > exists, but would be easy to integrate into Google/Calendar. Another
    > app for a full blown (outlook-like) Contacts list (probably ldap based)
    > - nothing exists for this *anywhere*.
    >
    > Personally, I like having separate, stand-alone clients that happen to
    > "know about" each other - but if someone wants an integrated app (ala
    > SeaMonkey) that is fine too.
    >
    >
    > Note that all of these client/server apps very well could have a revenue
    > stream attached to them (as they are accessing google - or some other
    > online provider). What is astounding to me is that noone else has
    > thought of this..
    >
    >

    Yeah I have! That's all its about is corporate Greed!!!. Let's make a
    buck on the poor smucks! They can afford it! Whoopee.

    I've never tried Gmail, never ever want to try Gmail. When it gets to
    the point where everything is on some one else's Computer (Fun for
    security, just fun) Then My ISP will close up because there is no need.
    And at that point I'll just chuck my computers in the closet.

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
    If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
    http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
    Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

  12. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Chris Barnes wrote:
    > JoeS wrote:
    >> Yeah, I guess that depends on who is doing the sorting, and what the
    >> motivation is.
    >> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitch...l_futures.html
    >>
    >> http://scott-macgregor.org/blog/
    >> http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=22235

    >
    >
    > Wow - tons of comments there in just 1 day. Here is my .02 I just added:
    >
    > Ok, I'm going to come at this from a somewhat different perspective.
    > Unlike some of you who seem to have "google hate" (something I find
    > amazing), where I see the biggest need for the market is in a client
    > which runs on the user's local machine, but keeps it's data **AND
    > PROFILE SETTINGS** on a free, public server.
    >
    > Note that I'm talking about more than just email here. A client for
    > Email (accessing Gmail via Imap). A client for a Calendar app (nothing
    > exists, but would be easy to integrate into Google/Calendar. Another
    > app for a full blown (outlook-like) Contacts list (probably ldap based)
    > - nothing exists for this *anywhere*.
    >
    > Personally, I like having separate, stand-alone clients that happen to
    > "know about" each other - but if someone wants an integrated app (ala
    > SeaMonkey) that is fine too.
    >
    >
    > Note that all of these client/server apps very well could have a revenue
    > stream attached to them (as they are accessing google - or some other
    > online provider). What is astounding to me is that noone else has
    > thought of this..
    >
    >

    Because your data would no longer be private if kept on a public server.
    I can think of many reasons why someone would not want his
    correspondence or profile open to just anybody. Also, if the public
    server developed problems, people would suddenly be without their
    profile settings; not a good scene at all.

  13. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
    > I've never tried Gmail, never ever want to try Gmail. When it gets to
    > the point where everything is on some one else's Computer (Fun for
    > security, just fun) Then My ISP will close up because there is no need.
    > And at that point I'll just chuck my computers in the closet.



    It all depends on the needs of each individual.

    In my case, there are 5 people in my house, each with their own lives
    (me, my wife, & 3 teenage daughters). We each need to have our own
    email and calendars and be able to share them (the calendars) with each
    other. And we need access to them from multiple locations (each of us
    at least 2 different locations)

    Using Gmail and Google/Calendar is *by far* the best way we've found to
    accomplish this. Now on my normal desktop PC, I use TB to access my
    gmail account. But if I'm not there, having access to it via gmail's
    website is still very, VERY nice.


    And in the circles of people I run with, my situation is very, VERY
    common.

    --

    + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
    Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
    chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes

    You always have freedom of choice, but you never have freedom of
    consequence.

  14. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    EE wrote:
    > Because your data would no longer be private if kept on a public server.
    > I can think of many reasons why someone would not want his
    > correspondence or profile open to just anybody. Also, if the public
    > server developed problems, people would suddenly be without their
    > profile settings; not a good scene at all.



    If *your* private data needs more security than is offered by Gmail,
    hotmail, yahoomail, ad.infinitum then YOU shouldn't use it.


    But that is a far, FAR cry from saying that the service, product, idea
    isn't useful to other people. I am more than satisfied with keeping my
    private calendar information on Google; their security features are more
    than sufficient for MY needs.




    --

    + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
    Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
    chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes

    You always have freedom of choice, but you never have freedom of
    consequence.

  15. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Chris Barnes wrote:
    > EE wrote:
    >> Because your data would no longer be private if kept on a public
    >> server. I can think of many reasons why someone would not want his
    >> correspondence or profile open to just anybody. Also, if the public
    >> server developed problems, people would suddenly be without their
    >> profile settings; not a good scene at all.

    >
    >
    > If *your* private data needs more security than is offered by Gmail,
    > hotmail, yahoomail, ad.infinitum then YOU shouldn't use it.
    >
    >
    > But that is a far, FAR cry from saying that the service, product, idea
    > isn't useful to other people. I am more than satisfied with keeping my
    > private calendar information on Google; their security features are more
    > than sufficient for MY needs.
    >
    >
    >
    >

    I really don't feel comfortable with storing my personal email, or
    calendar information on someone's server. However, it does have its
    advantages, such as being able to access it from just about anywhere.
    But webmail and webforums both give me a headache, really quickly. They
    are SO confining!


    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  16. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Chris Barnes wrote:
    > EE wrote:
    >> Because your data would no longer be private if kept on a public
    >> server. I can think of many reasons why someone would not want his
    >> correspondence or profile open to just anybody. Also, if the public
    >> server developed problems, people would suddenly be without their
    >> profile settings; not a good scene at all.

    >
    >
    > If *your* private data needs more security than is offered by Gmail,
    > hotmail, yahoomail, ad.infinitum then YOU shouldn't use it.


    Not to mention that unless you run your own server, e-mail resides
    (temporarily at the very least) on whatever the (I)SP server is
    anyway. If the server or account is hacked/hijacked to the point
    where items can be read while on the server, then the problem exists
    even if settings cause items to be downloaded and deleted from the
    server. Granted, the problem is reduced in that _historical_ items
    are excluded; i.e., only items that haven't been downloaded/deleted
    yet are vulnerable (unless archived by the server, etc.).

    --
    Tom Liotta

  17. Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird

    Annailis wrote:

    > You're right but at the moment if I had to give up either Thunderbird or
    > Firefox, it would be the browser that would lose out. Switching
    > e-mail/newsreader clients is too much of a pain in the butt.


    At the moment, I agree. This is especially true for a few others who
    are "supported" by me -- e.g., my wife. My wife would be perfectly
    comfortable switching to IE from FF; but it's not so easy switching
    mail clients. She might not notice much if I reconfigured her PC to
    start a different browser.

    --
    Tom Liotta

  18. THUNDERBROWSE will win (Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird)

    On 7/31/2007 07:29 AM India Time, _Tom Liotta_ wrote:

    > Annailis wrote:
    >
    >> You're right but at the moment if I had to give up either Thunderbird or
    >> Firefox, it would be the browser that would lose out. Switching
    >> e-mail/newsreader clients is too much of a pain in the butt.

    >
    > At the moment, I agree. This is especially true for a few others who
    > are "supported" by me -- e.g., my wife. My wife would be perfectly
    > comfortable switching to IE from FF; but it's not so easy switching
    > mail clients. She might not notice much if I reconfigured her PC to
    > start a different browser.
    >


    I think there is not much to worry on this count.

    Thunderbird is already having the loveliest among all its extensions,
    THUNDERBROWSE.

    Using that, we can surf within TB itself, not just by clicking on the
    links received in the mails/ posts, but by entering our fresh urls in
    the address bar in the TB. Now, it even has capability to open a new
    window for browsing by pressing the keyboard shortcut (^w). You can open
    multiple browsing windows. That supports Java and Javascript also. It
    has History/ GET/ POST also, I think.

    THUNDERBROWSE developers are looking to incorporate tabs also in that
    and bookmarks also and I hope we can see that working any time soon.
    People have requested in greasemonkey googlegroup for a TB version of gm
    and I think that will also come soon.

    The Achiless Heel is Logging In. Because TB doesn't support storing of
    cookies, logging in to sites is not possible yet, but it is said to come
    in TB 3.0. As soon as that code is released, I am sure THUNDERBROWSE
    would cross that bridge also.

    Not that I have any grudge with FF, but when officials are looking for a
    divorce, the kids will have to decide which of the parents they want to
    go with.

    With Thunderbird+THUNDERBROWSE, why would you need Firefox?

    OK, OK. I understand why. But the major hurdle has been crossed and
    other nitty gritty will also get attended. So I hope.
    --
    Vicks

  19. Re: THUNDERBROWSE will win (Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird)

    Vicks Rocz wrote:
    > On 7/31/2007 07:29 AM India Time, _Tom Liotta_ wrote:
    >
    >> Annailis wrote:
    >>
    >>> You're right but at the moment if I had to give up either Thunderbird
    >>> or Firefox, it would be the browser that would lose out. Switching
    >>> e-mail/newsreader clients is too much of a pain in the butt.

    >>
    >> At the moment, I agree. This is especially true for a few others who
    >> are "supported" by me -- e.g., my wife. My wife would be perfectly
    >> comfortable switching to IE from FF; but it's not so easy switching
    >> mail clients. She might not notice much if I reconfigured her PC to
    >> start a different browser.
    >>

    >
    > I think there is not much to worry on this count.
    >
    > Thunderbird is already having the loveliest among all its extensions,
    > THUNDERBROWSE.
    >
    > Using that, we can surf within TB itself, not just by clicking on the
    > links received in the mails/ posts, but by entering our fresh urls in
    > the address bar in the TB. Now, it even has capability to open a new
    > window for browsing by pressing the keyboard shortcut (^w). You can open
    > multiple browsing windows. That supports Java and Javascript also. It
    > has History/ GET/ POST also, I think.
    >
    > THUNDERBROWSE developers are looking to incorporate tabs also in that
    > and bookmarks also and I hope we can see that working any time soon.
    > People have requested in greasemonkey googlegroup for a TB version of gm
    > and I think that will also come soon.
    >
    > The Achiless Heel is Logging In. Because TB doesn't support storing of
    > cookies, logging in to sites is not possible yet, but it is said to come
    > in TB 3.0. As soon as that code is released, I am sure THUNDERBROWSE
    > would cross that bridge also.
    >
    > Not that I have any grudge with FF, but when officials are looking for a
    > divorce, the kids will have to decide which of the parents they want to
    > go with.
    >
    > With Thunderbird+THUNDERBROWSE, why would you need Firefox?
    >
    > OK, OK. I understand why. But the major hurdle has been crossed and
    > other nitty gritty will also get attended. So I hope.


    Do you also insist on driving nails with a screwdriver? Why not just
    use Firefox, and have everything? Once it is open, it is just another
    window, and the two work flawlessly together here. Is it just the
    thrill of making something do what it wasn't intended to do?


    --
    Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

  20. Re: THUNDERBROWSE will win (Re: Mozilla Preparing to Disown Thunderbird)

    Ron Hunter wrote:
    > Vicks Rocz wrote:
    >> On 7/31/2007 07:29 AM India Time, _Tom Liotta_ wrote:
    >>
    >>> Annailis wrote:
    >>>

    >>
    >> With Thunderbird+THUNDERBROWSE, why would you need Firefox?
    >>
    >> OK, OK. I understand why. But the major hurdle has been crossed and
    >> other nitty gritty will also get attended. So I hope.

    >
    > Do you also insist on driving nails with a screwdriver? Why not just
    > use Firefox, and have everything? Once it is open, it is just another
    > window, and the two work flawlessly together here. Is it just the
    > thrill of making something do what it wasn't intended to do?


    I originally thought "hey COOL!" when I saw ThunderBrowse, "If I'm
    following a link from a feed page or email it won't switch windows".

    I use Opera, not firefox but the principal is exactly the same - I
    *always* open links in a new window and then continue on reading.
    Thunderbrowse breaks this. Comes back to what I was saying in the other
    group, there's a PULL client, and a PUSH client.

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