Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly - Mozilla

This is a discussion on Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly - Mozilla ; Penthor-Mul wrote: > Wilf wrote: > >> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: >> >>> Wilf wrote: >>> >>>> Penthor-Mul wrote: >>>> >>>>> Snagglepuss wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> SIX MEGS!!!! Yikes. I would delete the file and start again. >>>>> >>>>> OK, I'll ...

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Thread: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

  1. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Penthor-Mul wrote:

    > Wilf wrote:
    >
    >> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>
    >>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> SIX MEGS!!!! Yikes. I would delete the file and start again.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> OK, I'll shut down and dump that bad boy. I had no idea there was
    >>>>> a size limit for that file. I guess I missed that. Thanks for the
    >>>>> education.
    >>>>
    >>>> Strange, though. So the longer I use the JMC the more likely it is
    >>>> that it'll get too large and have to be reset? Is this a bug or what?
    >>>
    >>> Yes, its been recognized by Mozilla, and there was some consideration
    >>> given to building in an automatic size limitation to the product but
    >>> it hasnt been implemented as of yet.

    >>
    >> I'd better stick with K9 then, which is a Bayesian filter which is
    >> (for me anyway) almost 100% accurate and never has to be reset.

    >
    > Wilf, could you post your configuration for K9? I used to use it when I
    > was running Norton AV and TB. When I switched to free AVG I could not
    > get the setup to work. I really would like to go back to K9. It was at
    > 99% when I stopped using it. TB has never even approached that
    > efficiency for me.


    Penthor,

    I too, like Wilf, consider K9 to be one of the finest pieces of
    software that I have ever used. And you can't beat the price. [g]

    Now that I have used it for a while, I could probably set it up and
    train it in less than 15 minutes to 99.98% accuracy with virtually no
    false positives. Here is how I would do it. Start by downloading and
    installing K9. (113 KB - yes, that's KB - installer, unbelievable)

    http://keir.net/k9.html

    1) Download and install K9.

    2) Go to the servers of all of your POP3 email accounts (ISPs,
    Personal Domains, POP3 Account Providers, etc.) and disable all spam
    filtering. This will let all kinds of garbage through. You can leave
    the malware blocking in place if you wish.

    3) In your client (TB), turn off automatic email checking/downloading.

    4) Assuming that you have local folders setup in TB in which you have
    saved important (Good) emails, save them to K9's Good
    directory/folder. For my account,

    C:\Documents and Settings\Ron\Application Data\K9\Emails\Good

    For example, click on a Good email, and do a CTRL+S. Save the email as
    a text file (*.eml by default). K9 can read anything as long as it is
    text. There are probably ways to drag-and-drop several at a time, but
    by the time I remembered how I would be done anyway.

    5) If you have any spam in your spam/trash folders, save it to K9's
    Spam directory/folder. For my account,

    C:\Documents and Settings\Ron\Application Data\K9\Emails\Spam

    I currently have 13,775 spam emails if you want some. LOL. Gotta clean
    this out some day.

    6) In your email client (TB), export your address book to a text file,
    for example a csv file. Add your contacts to the K9 whitelist. For my
    account, the whitelist.txt file is in

    C:\Documents and Settings\Ron\Application Data\K9\Emails\DB

    For example, an entry for you would be

    From :Penthor.Mull@yahoo.com

    You don't need to whitelist all your contacts, of course, but I find
    it convenient since the email from so many of my contacts looks like
    spam. [g]

    7) Setup your POP3 accounts in TB to use K9 as a proxy.

    Server Name: 127.0.0.1
    Port: 9999
    User Name: mail.yourdomain.com/110/youraccount@yourdomain.com

    You can't do this with a Yahoo account, but you can set it up for your
    real accounts (ISP, etc.).

    8) On the K9 Configuration Tab, set K9 to use "X-Text-Classification:
    Spam" for the header mark.

    9) Make sure that "Use Whitelist" and "Use Blacklist" are both
    checked. I don't remember if these are checked by default.

    10) Setup a K9 filter in TB to dump emails marked as Spam
    (X-Text-Classification to an appropriate folder.

    11) On the K9 Statistics Tab, Rebuild the K9 database.

    12) Close K9. Should minimize to a taskbar tray icon.

    13) Start retrieving email from your POP3 servers.

    14) Open K9, and on the Recent Emails Tab, check your email. Remark
    anything that is incorrectly filtered (Good or Spam). To whitelist a
    contact, use the context menu (right-click), and then reclassify as
    Good, if necessary. Works great. When done, click Organize.

    15) As you train K9, you can reset the statistics on the Statistics
    Tab from time to time.

    Notes:

    K9 will not directly support webmail-type systems such as Yahoo,
    Hotmail, Gmail, etc. I myself blacklist all of these. I did not agree
    to their TOS, and I resent them archiving my email. In the case of
    someone using one of these for personal correspondence with me, I will
    whitelist a specific address. I would, of course, never do business
    with anyone who used a Yahoo or Gmail account for his or her business
    dealings. That's like buying something out of the trunk (boot) of a
    car (automobile). LOL.

    I currently have only one email account that K9 cannot process (IMAP),
    and I rarely use it. In all other cases, I have been able to forward
    email through my legitimate POP3 accounts. And one of the best
    features for me is that I can use K9 as a proxy. That means that my
    spam filtering is client-independent. I can process both my (Netscape)
    and my wife's (TB) email at a central point. If I were not able to do
    that, I would have to setup (gag alert!) Outlook or Outlook Express
    for her.

    Since K9, by default, saves all email, you can start all over anytime
    that you wish. And not have to spend a couple of weeks retraining it.
    After you know what you are doing, use the Storage Area to keep
    representative Good and Spam emails, and dump the rest. Then rebuild
    the database, and reset the statistics.

    You can also use K9 for server checking (you have to set it up). You
    can then view (text only, of course) email at the server without
    downloading it. I have found this convenient when some idiot sends me
    something that my Moz-based clients cannot render. For example,
    sometimes I have to use a Web client to detach an attachment when TB
    cannot do so, and forwarding from TB doesn't work. And you can also
    use K9 to delete an email at the server, if desired. I already have
    enough email from Anna Kournikova. [g]

    After you get K9 setup and working properly, you can go back to doing
    some spam filtering at the server, but I don't. One of the most
    convenient aspects of using a proxy like K9 for spam filtering, is
    that _all_ of my FPs are in _one_ place, and I never miss _any_. Prior
    to using K9, I had to check a half dozen servers weekly for FPs. A
    real PITA. And since I only use text for email, and all attachments
    are scanned by KAV, I have no problem letting everything through.

    BTW, I don't know about AVG, but I use KAV/KIS with K9 and I don't
    have any problems, nor did I have to change any of the default
    settings. Here are some ideas from Robin on the subject.

    http://keir.net/k9_faq.html#faq19

    Good luck, Penthor. If you have any problems, post back. Using
    Thunderbird with K9 is a _great_ solution for POP3 email.

    Ron

  2. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >
    > Wilf, could you post your configuration for K9? I used to use it when I
    > was running Norton AV and TB. When I switched to free AVG I could not
    > get the setup to work. I really would like to go back to K9. It was at
    > 99% when I stopped using it. TB has never even approached that
    > efficiency for me.
    >

    Sure thing Penthor, but depends upon what you need to know? For each
    pop account being downloaded, the server is set to localhost,

    the user (or account) name is set to /110/

    the Port is set to 9999

    In the K9 Configuration tab emails are marked by adding the email header
    X-K9-Text-Classification: spam

    I then use this header in Thunderbird to detect that K9 has marked the
    email as spam.

    Is this what you need to know? You may be having a problem because AVG
    may be hijacking port 110 in some way? I can't remember much about AVG
    as it's a long time since I used it.


    --
    Wilf

  3. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Penthor-Mul wrote:
    > Snagglepuss wrote:
    >> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>> OK, I'll shut down and dump that bad boy. I had no idea there was a
    >>> size limit for that file. I guess I missed that. Thanks for the
    >>> education.

    >>
    >> http://groups.google.com/group/mozil...c7c3a2c91cb234

    >
    >
    > How come the simplest ideas are always the hardest to come up with?!
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Penthor


    thats the way life is designed. Its when things are right under your
    nose that will kill you. :-)

    --
    "Oh! Heavens to Murgatroid. Exit, Stage Left!" -- Snagglepuss
    http://www.toonopedia.com/snaggle.htm

    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. Thanks

  4. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Penthor-Mul wrote:
    > I get a lot of spam, 50-75/day.
    >
    > Penthor


    is that all. I get around 300 a day, and thats from one account. And
    I'm sure someone will say they get more.

    --
    "Oh! Heavens to Murgatroid. Exit, Stage Left!" -- Snagglepuss
    http://www.toonopedia.com/snaggle.htm

    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. Thanks

  5. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    On 2006-12-30 13:26 (-0700 UTC), Snagglepuss wrote:

    > Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >> I get a lot of spam, 50-75/day.
    >>
    >> Penthor

    >
    > is that all. I get around 300 a day, and thats from one account. And
    > I'm sure someone will say they get more.


    A friend of mine gets about 1 200 e-mail a day, about 400 of which make it
    to his inbox . . . and 30-40% of that amount are legitimate.

    /b.

    --
    'There is caution, and there is irrational paranoia.' -- Ron Hunter

    'And, yes, I AM a bit paranoid. After 25 years online, one gets that way,
    if one survives.' -- Ron Hunter

  6. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Brian Heinrich wrote:
    > On 2006-12-30 13:26 (-0700 UTC), Snagglepuss wrote:
    >
    >> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>> I get a lot of spam, 50-75/day.
    >>>
    >>> Penthor

    >>
    >> is that all. I get around 300 a day, and thats from one account. And
    >> I'm sure someone will say they get more.

    >
    > A friend of mine gets about 1 200 e-mail a day, about 400 of which make
    > it to his inbox . . . and 30-40% of that amount are legitimate.
    >
    > /b.
    >

    well, there you go. I said someone would reply, didn't I :-)

    --
    "Oh! Heavens to Murgatroid. Exit, Stage Left!" -- Snagglepuss
    http://www.toonopedia.com/snaggle.htm

    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. Thanks

  7. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Snagglepuss wrote:
    > Brian Heinrich wrote:
    >> On 2006-12-30 13:26 (-0700 UTC), Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>
    >>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>> I get a lot of spam, 50-75/day.
    >>>>
    >>>> Penthor
    >>>
    >>> is that all. I get around 300 a day, and thats from one account.
    >>> And I'm sure someone will say they get more.

    >>
    >> A friend of mine gets about 1 200 e-mail a day, about 400 of which
    >> make it to his inbox . . . and 30-40% of that amount are legitimate.
    >>
    >> /b.
    >>

    > well, there you go. I said someone would reply, didn't I :-)
    >



    I used to get 300 per day on my accounts, and that was eight years ago.
    So I did something about it... I fought back. I have much less now, and
    spam has increased 20 or 30 times since then.

    but still 904K after one day is still excessive. Even with 300 per day
    that means 3KB for each message! 3000Kilobytes for each message! Heck
    some spam isnt that big! And since much spam is duplicated have 904KB
    after 1 day (and 300 spam) is really excessive.

  8. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    On 2006-12-30 21:14 (-0700 UTC), Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:



    > I used to get 300 [spam] per day on my accounts, and that was eight years ago.
    > So I did something about it... I fought back. I have much less now, and
    > spam has increased 20 or 30 times since then.
    >
    > but still 904K after one day is still excessive. Even with 300 per day
    > that means 3KB for each message! 3000Kilobytes for each message! Heck
    > some spam isnt that big! And since much spam is duplicated have 904KB
    > after 1 day (and 300 spam) is really excessive.


    'Pends on how many unique strings there are. Hence why I recommend the
    Bayes Junk Tool to prune training.dat and keep things functioning smoothly.
    .. . .

    --
    'There is caution, and there is irrational paranoia.' -- Ron Hunter

    'And, yes, I AM a bit paranoid. After 25 years online, one gets that way,
    if one survives.' -- Ron Hunter

  9. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    > Snagglepuss wrote:
    >> Brian Heinrich wrote:
    >>> On 2006-12-30 13:26 (-0700 UTC), Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>> I get a lot of spam, 50-75/day.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Penthor
    >>>>
    >>>> is that all. I get around 300 a day, and thats from one account.
    >>>> And I'm sure someone will say they get more.
    >>>
    >>> A friend of mine gets about 1 200 e-mail a day, about 400 of which
    >>> make it to his inbox . . . and 30-40% of that amount are legitimate.
    >>>
    >>> /b.
    >>>

    >> well, there you go. I said someone would reply, didn't I :-)
    >>

    >
    >
    > I used to get 300 per day on my accounts, and that was eight years ago.
    > So I did something about it... I fought back. I have much less now, and
    > spam has increased 20 or 30 times since then.
    >
    > but still 904K after one day is still excessive. Even with 300 per day
    > that means 3KB for each message! 3000Kilobytes for each message! Heck
    > some spam isnt that big! And since much spam is duplicated have 904KB
    > after 1 day (and 300 spam) is really excessive.


    My Training.dat file for SeaMonkey is 1.6Mb on TB on by Desktop is 56K
    but not sure if I have JMC turned on my Laptop its 220K for TB

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
    If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
    http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

  10. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    On 12/29/2006 11:29 AM, Brian Heinrich wrote:
    > On 2006-12-29 05:19 (-0700 UTC), Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >
    >> Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>>> version 1.5.0.9 (20061207)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Until very recently they worked pretty good. Now about 50% of the
    >>>>>> spam ends up in my inbox. I deleted all the .msf files in my
    >>>>>> profile, emptied the Trash, and compacted my folders. These
    >>>>>> actions don't seem to have helped. Is there anything else I can
    >>>>>> try? Is this problem related to a recent update?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Penthor
    >>>>>
    >>>>> How big is your training.dat file? Your training.dat file can be
    >>>>> found in your profile.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Is JMC (Junk Mail Controls) still getting some spam/junk? Have you
    >>>>> checked the settings to ensure that it is still enabled on all
    >>>>> accounts?
    >>>>
    >>>> Training.dat = 6MB
    >>>>
    >>>> The JMC is catching about 50% of the spam and correctly routing it
    >>>> to the Junk folder. JMC is still activated for my account.
    >>>>
    >>>> I remember there was a place to set the "aggressiveness" of the JMC
    >>>> between 0 & 100, but I forgot where that setting is. I think I had
    >>>> set it fairly aggressive; about 5 or less.
    >>>>
    >>>> N
    >>> SIX MEGS!!!! Yikes. I would delete the file and start again.

    >>
    >> OK, I'll shut down and dump that bad boy. I had no idea there was a
    >> size limit for that file. I guess I missed that. Thanks for the
    >> education.

    >
    > There is no size limit; it's just that the larger it gets, the more
    > cruft it has in it, and the less efficient it becomes.
    >
    > Dan tends to recommend deleting the file and starting over, while I tend
    > to recommend using the Bayes Junk Tool to 'fine tune' JMC by removing
    > the cruft (/i.e./, entries below a certain score).
    >
    > For more on BJT, see .
    >
    > /b.
    >

    I'm an over-achiever. My training.dat file is 10.8MB. I'm very
    conscientious about marking junk (and rarely needing to mark non-junk).
    I get very few false positives, but hundreds of pieces of junk mail
    show up in my inbox each day.

    I've downloaded Bayes Junk Tool, but I don't know what I should be doing
    with it. I've seen comment here about values less than 20, but I don't
    know which values people are talking about.

    The Bayes Junk Tool is showing 5 columns:
    Token; Good; Good %; Bad; and Bad %.

    Do I want to remove all tokens that have a Good value of less than 20
    and all tokens that have a Bad value of less than 20? That is almost
    all the tokens in the file.

    Bernie

  11. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    On 2006-12-31 17:27 (-0700 UTC), Bernie wrote:

    > On 12/29/2006 11:29 AM, Brian Heinrich wrote:
    >> On 2006-12-29 05:19 (-0700 UTC), Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>
    >>> Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>>>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>>>> version 1.5.0.9 (20061207)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Until very recently they worked pretty good. Now about 50% of
    >>>>>>> the spam ends up in my inbox. I deleted all the .msf files in my
    >>>>>>> profile, emptied the Trash, and compacted my folders. These
    >>>>>>> actions don't seem to have helped. Is there anything else I can
    >>>>>>> try? Is this problem related to a recent update?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Penthor
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> How big is your training.dat file? Your training.dat file can be
    >>>>>> found in your profile.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Is JMC (Junk Mail Controls) still getting some spam/junk? Have you
    >>>>>> checked the settings to ensure that it is still enabled on all
    >>>>>> accounts?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Training.dat = 6MB
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The JMC is catching about 50% of the spam and correctly routing it
    >>>>> to the Junk folder. JMC is still activated for my account.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I remember there was a place to set the "aggressiveness" of the JMC
    >>>>> between 0 & 100, but I forgot where that setting is. I think I had
    >>>>> set it fairly aggressive; about 5 or less.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> N
    >>>> SIX MEGS!!!! Yikes. I would delete the file and start again.
    >>>
    >>> OK, I'll shut down and dump that bad boy. I had no idea there was a
    >>> size limit for that file. I guess I missed that. Thanks for the
    >>> education.

    >>
    >> There is no size limit; it's just that the larger it gets, the more
    >> cruft it has in it, and the less efficient it becomes.
    >>
    >> Dan tends to recommend deleting the file and starting over, while I
    >> tend to recommend using the Bayes Junk Tool to 'fine tune' JMC by
    >> removing the cruft (/i.e./, entries below a certain score).
    >>
    >> For more on BJT, see .
    >>
    >> /b.

    >
    > I'm an over-achiever. My training.dat file is 10.8MB.


    Yowzah!

    > I'm very
    > conscientious about marking junk [ . . . ]


    Apparently. . . .

    > [ . . . ] (and rarely needing to mark non-junk).


    You actually should be marking non-junk as not-junk; it helps improve the
    efficiency of the filter.

    > I get very few false positives, but hundreds of pieces of junk mail
    > show up in my inbox each day.


    Sounds like you need to decruft your training.dat.

    > I've downloaded Bayes Junk Tool, but I don't know what I should be doing
    > with it. I've seen comment here about values less than 20, but I don't
    > know which values people are talking about.
    >
    > The Bayes Junk Tool is showing 5 columns:
    > Token; Good; Good %; Bad; and Bad %.
    >
    > Do I want to remove all tokens that have a Good value of less than 20
    > and all tokens that have a Bad value of less than 20? That is almost
    > all the tokens in the file.


    Were I you, I'd try to be more modest at the outset -- set the level to 5
    and see what happens.

    The problem is that JMC need both good and bad tokens in order to function,
    and the algorithm is such that the cruft can decrease efficiency. (That's
    actually why you'll see a lot of spam with random bits of books or even
    blocks of random words: the idea is to 'confuse' Bayesian filters. . . .)

    /b.

    --
    'There is caution, and there is irrational paranoia.' -- Ron Hunter

    'And, yes, I AM a bit paranoid. After 25 years online, one gets that way,
    if one survives.' -- Ron Hunter

  12. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Wilf wrote:
    > Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>
    >> Wilf, could you post your configuration for K9? I used to use it when
    >> I was running Norton AV and TB. When I switched to free AVG I could
    >> not get the setup to work. I really would like to go back to K9. It
    >> was at 99% when I stopped using it. TB has never even approached that
    >> efficiency for me.
    >>

    > Sure thing Penthor, but depends upon what you need to know? For each
    > pop account being downloaded, the server is set to localhost,
    >
    > the user (or account) name is set to /110/
    >
    > the Port is set to 9999
    >
    > In the K9 Configuration tab emails are marked by adding the email header
    > X-K9-Text-Classification: spam
    >
    > I then use this header in Thunderbird to detect that K9 has marked the
    > email as spam.
    >
    > Is this what you need to know? You may be having a problem because AVG
    > may be hijacking port 110 in some way? I can't remember much about AVG
    > as it's a long time since I used it.


    I thank both of you for posting those config instructions. I'll give it
    a try and see what happens.

    Penthor

  13. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Ron Lopshire wrote:
    > Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >
    >> Wilf wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> SIX MEGS!!!! Yikes. I would delete the file and start again.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> OK, I'll shut down and dump that bad boy. I had no idea there was
    >>>>>> a size limit for that file. I guess I missed that. Thanks for
    >>>>>> the education.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Strange, though. So the longer I use the JMC the more likely it is
    >>>>> that it'll get too large and have to be reset? Is this a bug or what?
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes, its been recognized by Mozilla, and there was some
    >>>> consideration given to building in an automatic size limitation to
    >>>> the product but it hasnt been implemented as of yet.
    >>>
    >>> I'd better stick with K9 then, which is a Bayesian filter which is
    >>> (for me anyway) almost 100% accurate and never has to be reset.

    >>
    >> Wilf, could you post your configuration for K9? I used to use it when
    >> I was running Norton AV and TB. When I switched to free AVG I could
    >> not get the setup to work. I really would like to go back to K9. It
    >> was at 99% when I stopped using it. TB has never even approached that
    >> efficiency for me.

    >
    > Penthor,
    >
    > I too, like Wilf, consider K9 to be one of the finest pieces of software
    > that I have ever used. And you can't beat the price. [g]
    >
    > Now that I have used it for a while, I could probably set it up and
    > train it in less than 15 minutes to 99.98% accuracy with virtually no
    > false positives. Here is how I would do it. Start by downloading and
    > installing K9. (113 KB - yes, that's KB - installer, unbelievable)
    >
    > http://keir.net/k9.html
    >
    > 1) Download and install K9.
    >
    > 2) Go to the servers of all of your POP3 email accounts (ISPs, Personal
    > Domains, POP3 Account Providers, etc.) and disable all spam filtering.
    > This will let all kinds of garbage through. You can leave the malware
    > blocking in place if you wish.
    >
    > 3) In your client (TB), turn off automatic email checking/downloading.
    >
    > 4) Assuming that you have local folders setup in TB in which you have
    > saved important (Good) emails, save them to K9's Good directory/folder.
    > For my account,
    >
    > C:\Documents and Settings\Ron\Application Data\K9\Emails\Good
    >
    > For example, click on a Good email, and do a CTRL+S. Save the email as a
    > text file (*.eml by default). K9 can read anything as long as it is
    > text. There are probably ways to drag-and-drop several at a time, but by
    > the time I remembered how I would be done anyway.
    >
    > 5) If you have any spam in your spam/trash folders, save it to K9's Spam
    > directory/folder. For my account,
    >
    > C:\Documents and Settings\Ron\Application Data\K9\Emails\Spam
    >
    > I currently have 13,775 spam emails if you want some. LOL. Gotta clean
    > this out some day.
    >
    > 6) In your email client (TB), export your address book to a text file,
    > for example a csv file. Add your contacts to the K9 whitelist. For my
    > account, the whitelist.txt file is in
    >
    > C:\Documents and Settings\Ron\Application Data\K9\Emails\DB
    >
    > For example, an entry for you would be
    >
    > From :Penthor.Mull@yahoo.com
    >
    > You don't need to whitelist all your contacts, of course, but I find it
    > convenient since the email from so many of my contacts looks like spam. [g]
    >
    > 7) Setup your POP3 accounts in TB to use K9 as a proxy.
    >
    > Server Name: 127.0.0.1
    > Port: 9999
    > User Name: mail.yourdomain.com/110/youraccount@yourdomain.com
    >
    > You can't do this with a Yahoo account, but you can set it up for your
    > real accounts (ISP, etc.).
    >
    > 8) On the K9 Configuration Tab, set K9 to use "X-Text-Classification:
    > Spam" for the header mark.
    >
    > 9) Make sure that "Use Whitelist" and "Use Blacklist" are both checked.
    > I don't remember if these are checked by default.
    >
    > 10) Setup a K9 filter in TB to dump emails marked as Spam
    > (X-Text-Classification to an appropriate folder.
    >
    > 11) On the K9 Statistics Tab, Rebuild the K9 database.
    >
    > 12) Close K9. Should minimize to a taskbar tray icon.
    >
    > 13) Start retrieving email from your POP3 servers.
    >
    > 14) Open K9, and on the Recent Emails Tab, check your email. Remark
    > anything that is incorrectly filtered (Good or Spam). To whitelist a
    > contact, use the context menu (right-click), and then reclassify as
    > Good, if necessary. Works great. When done, click Organize.
    >
    > 15) As you train K9, you can reset the statistics on the Statistics Tab
    > from time to time.
    >
    > Notes:
    >
    > K9 will not directly support webmail-type systems such as Yahoo,
    > Hotmail, Gmail, etc. I myself blacklist all of these. I did not agree to
    > their TOS, and I resent them archiving my email. In the case of someone
    > using one of these for personal correspondence with me, I will whitelist
    > a specific address. I would, of course, never do business with anyone
    > who used a Yahoo or Gmail account for his or her business dealings.
    > That's like buying something out of the trunk (boot) of a car
    > (automobile). LOL.
    >
    > I currently have only one email account that K9 cannot process (IMAP),
    > and I rarely use it. In all other cases, I have been able to forward
    > email through my legitimate POP3 accounts. And one of the best features
    > for me is that I can use K9 as a proxy. That means that my spam
    > filtering is client-independent. I can process both my (Netscape) and my
    > wife's (TB) email at a central point. If I were not able to do that, I
    > would have to setup (gag alert!) Outlook or Outlook Express for her.
    >
    > Since K9, by default, saves all email, you can start all over anytime
    > that you wish. And not have to spend a couple of weeks retraining it.
    > After you know what you are doing, use the Storage Area to keep
    > representative Good and Spam emails, and dump the rest. Then rebuild the
    > database, and reset the statistics.
    >
    > You can also use K9 for server checking (you have to set it up). You can
    > then view (text only, of course) email at the server without downloading
    > it. I have found this convenient when some idiot sends me something that
    > my Moz-based clients cannot render. For example, sometimes I have to use
    > a Web client to detach an attachment when TB cannot do so, and
    > forwarding from TB doesn't work. And you can also use K9 to delete an
    > email at the server, if desired. I already have enough email from Anna
    > Kournikova. [g]
    >
    > After you get K9 setup and working properly, you can go back to doing
    > some spam filtering at the server, but I don't. One of the most
    > convenient aspects of using a proxy like K9 for spam filtering, is that
    > _all_ of my FPs are in _one_ place, and I never miss _any_. Prior to
    > using K9, I had to check a half dozen servers weekly for FPs. A real
    > PITA. And since I only use text for email, and all attachments are
    > scanned by KAV, I have no problem letting everything through.
    >
    > BTW, I don't know about AVG, but I use KAV/KIS with K9 and I don't have
    > any problems, nor did I have to change any of the default settings. Here
    > are some ideas from Robin on the subject.
    >
    > http://keir.net/k9_faq.html#faq19
    >
    > Good luck, Penthor. If you have any problems, post back. Using
    > Thunderbird with K9 is a _great_ solution for POP3 email.
    >
    > Ron


    I thank both of you for posting those config instructions. I'll give it
    a try and see what happens.

    Penthor

  14. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    > Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>> Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>>>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>>>> version 1.5.0.9 (20061207)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Until very recently they worked pretty good. Now about 50% of
    >>>>>>> the spam ends up in my inbox. I deleted all the .msf files in my
    >>>>>>> profile, emptied the Trash, and compacted my folders. These
    >>>>>>> actions don't seem to have helped. Is there anything else I can
    >>>>>>> try? Is this problem related to a recent update?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Penthor
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> How big is your training.dat file? Your training.dat file can be
    >>>>>> found in your profile.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Is JMC (Junk Mail Controls) still getting some spam/junk? Have you
    >>>>>> checked the settings to ensure that it is still enabled on all
    >>>>>> accounts?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Training.dat = 6MB
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The JMC is catching about 50% of the spam and correctly routing it
    >>>>> to the Junk folder. JMC is still activated for my account.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I remember there was a place to set the "aggressiveness" of the JMC
    >>>>> between 0 & 100, but I forgot where that setting is. I think I had
    >>>>> set it fairly aggressive; about 5 or less.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> N
    >>>> SIX MEGS!!!! Yikes. I would delete the file and start again.
    >>>
    >>> OK, I'll shut down and dump that bad boy. I had no idea there was a
    >>> size limit for that file. I guess I missed that. Thanks for the
    >>> education.

    >>
    >> OK, I renamed training.dat to training.old. The new training.dat was
    >> created. It is already 904KB. The jury is still out on how effective
    >> the filter is now. I'll know in a week or so; I get a lot of spam,
    >> 50-75/day.
    >>
    >> Penthor

    >
    >
    > Tell me, are you marking non junk as non juck with the aid of Mnenhy?
    > My training.dat is 380KB and thats after 6 months! (Active since July)
    > 904KB after one day is really excessive


    Sorry for the delay - out of town.

    I am marking the good messages as "not junk". I believe my training.dat
    started at over 500KB after it was re-created. I am still having to
    mark some spam that ends up in inbox...but I think it has decreased.
    Progress, even a little, is good, yes?

    Penthor

  15. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Snagglepuss wrote:
    > Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >> I get a lot of spam, 50-75/day.
    >>
    >> Penthor

    >
    > is that all. I get around 300 a day, and thats from one account. And
    > I'm sure someone will say they get more.


    Dood, you gotta stay away from those pr0n sites

  16. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    > Snagglepuss wrote:
    >> Brian Heinrich wrote:
    >>> On 2006-12-30 13:26 (-0700 UTC), Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>> I get a lot of spam, 50-75/day.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Penthor
    >>>>
    >>>> is that all. I get around 300 a day, and thats from one account.
    >>>> And I'm sure someone will say they get more.
    >>>
    >>> A friend of mine gets about 1 200 e-mail a day, about 400 of which
    >>> make it to his inbox . . . and 30-40% of that amount are legitimate.
    >>>
    >>> /b.
    >>>

    >> well, there you go. I said someone would reply, didn't I :-)
    >>

    >
    >
    > I used to get 300 per day on my accounts, and that was eight years ago.
    > So I did something about it... I fought back. I have much less now, and
    > spam has increased 20 or 30 times since then.
    >
    > but still 904K after one day is still excessive. Even with 300 per day
    > that means 3KB for each message! 3000Kilobytes for each message! Heck
    > some spam isnt that big! And since much spam is duplicated have 904KB
    > after 1 day (and 300 spam) is really excessive.


    You fought back? How so Dan? Pipe bombs
    Seriously, how?

    Penthor

  17. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Bernie wrote:
    > On 12/29/2006 11:29 AM, Brian Heinrich wrote:
    >> On 2006-12-29 05:19 (-0700 UTC), Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>
    >>> Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>>>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>>>> version 1.5.0.9 (20061207)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Until very recently they worked pretty good. Now about 50% of
    >>>>>>> the spam ends up in my inbox. I deleted all the .msf files in my
    >>>>>>> profile, emptied the Trash, and compacted my folders. These
    >>>>>>> actions don't seem to have helped. Is there anything else I can
    >>>>>>> try? Is this problem related to a recent update?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Penthor
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> How big is your training.dat file? Your training.dat file can be
    >>>>>> found in your profile.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Is JMC (Junk Mail Controls) still getting some spam/junk? Have you
    >>>>>> checked the settings to ensure that it is still enabled on all
    >>>>>> accounts?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Training.dat = 6MB
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The JMC is catching about 50% of the spam and correctly routing it
    >>>>> to the Junk folder. JMC is still activated for my account.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I remember there was a place to set the "aggressiveness" of the JMC
    >>>>> between 0 & 100, but I forgot where that setting is. I think I had
    >>>>> set it fairly aggressive; about 5 or less.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> N
    >>>> SIX MEGS!!!! Yikes. I would delete the file and start again.
    >>>
    >>> OK, I'll shut down and dump that bad boy. I had no idea there was a
    >>> size limit for that file. I guess I missed that. Thanks for the
    >>> education.

    >>
    >> There is no size limit; it's just that the larger it gets, the more
    >> cruft it has in it, and the less efficient it becomes.
    >>
    >> Dan tends to recommend deleting the file and starting over, while I
    >> tend to recommend using the Bayes Junk Tool to 'fine tune' JMC by
    >> removing the cruft (/i.e./, entries below a certain score).
    >>
    >> For more on BJT, see .
    >>
    >> /b.
    >>

    > I'm an over-achiever. My training.dat file is 10.8MB. I'm very
    > conscientious about marking junk (and rarely needing to mark non-junk).
    > I get very few false positives, but hundreds of pieces of junk mail
    > show up in my inbox each day.
    >
    > I've downloaded Bayes Junk Tool, but I don't know what I should be doing
    > with it. I've seen comment here about values less than 20, but I don't
    > know which values people are talking about.
    >
    > The Bayes Junk Tool is showing 5 columns:
    > Token; Good; Good %; Bad; and Bad %.
    >
    > Do I want to remove all tokens that have a Good value of less than 20
    > and all tokens that have a Bad value of less than 20? That is almost
    > all the tokens in the file.
    >
    > Bernie



    Well, in my opinion, your problem is the size of your training.dat.
    Delete that and start over, and your JMC should be more effective.

    I disagree that you should be marking non junk as such, there is no
    requirement to do so, unless it was caught as junk that is. Marking
    non-junk as not-junk does NOT improve the catch ratio. It assists in
    improving the false positive ratio (number of messages that are not spam
    picked up as such) but since you say thats low anyway... why worry about it?

    Fact: On a clean installation. JMC will pick up 65% (or better) of spam,
    with a training.dat of zero.

    All you need to do is mark those messages which ARE spam as such, and
    unmark any legitimate messages JMC catches. That's it. simple.

    Fact: On my system, JMC has improved to 99.8% catch ratio - for every
    spam I see in my inbox, there are 200 spams in the junk folder - with a
    training.dat size of 380K (since Jul 10 2006)

  18. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Penthor-Mul wrote:
    > Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>> Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>>> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>>>>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>>>>> version 1.5.0.9 (20061207)
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Until very recently they worked pretty good. Now about 50% of
    >>>>>>>> the spam ends up in my inbox. I deleted all the .msf files in
    >>>>>>>> my profile, emptied the Trash, and compacted my folders. These
    >>>>>>>> actions don't seem to have helped. Is there anything else I can
    >>>>>>>> try? Is this problem related to a recent update?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Penthor
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> How big is your training.dat file? Your training.dat file can be
    >>>>>>> found in your profile.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Is JMC (Junk Mail Controls) still getting some spam/junk? Have
    >>>>>>> you checked the settings to ensure that it is still enabled on
    >>>>>>> all accounts?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Training.dat = 6MB
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The JMC is catching about 50% of the spam and correctly routing it
    >>>>>> to the Junk folder. JMC is still activated for my account.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I remember there was a place to set the "aggressiveness" of the
    >>>>>> JMC between 0 & 100, but I forgot where that setting is. I think
    >>>>>> I had set it fairly aggressive; about 5 or less.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> N
    >>>>> SIX MEGS!!!! Yikes. I would delete the file and start again.
    >>>>
    >>>> OK, I'll shut down and dump that bad boy. I had no idea there was a
    >>>> size limit for that file. I guess I missed that. Thanks for the
    >>>> education.
    >>>
    >>> OK, I renamed training.dat to training.old. The new training.dat was
    >>> created. It is already 904KB. The jury is still out on how
    >>> effective the filter is now. I'll know in a week or so; I get a lot
    >>> of spam, 50-75/day.
    >>>
    >>> Penthor

    >>
    >>
    >> Tell me, are you marking non junk as non juck with the aid of Mnenhy?
    >> My training.dat is 380KB and thats after 6 months! (Active since July)
    >> 904KB after one day is really excessive

    >
    > Sorry for the delay - out of town.
    >
    > I am marking the good messages as "not junk". I believe my training.dat
    > started at over 500KB after it was re-created. I am still having to
    > mark some spam that ends up in inbox...but I think it has decreased.
    > Progress, even a little, is good, yes?
    >
    > Penthor



    No, I disagree with marking good messages as non-junk. It bloats the
    training.dat for no good reason. And a large training.dat has shown to
    be prone to making JMC less effective.

    Marking good messages as non junk will decrease the occurance of false
    positives somewhat... but in most cases thats so low in the first place,
    its not even a problem. I havent had a real 'false' positive on this
    system yet - with my 'in addrress book' exception anyway.


    Again, training.dat files over 1MB have been shown to impart less
    effectiveness, and here you are with ONE day and a training.dat of 940K?
    Almost at the limit at which problem may occur, after only one day?
    Thats what marking known good messages does.

    Once more. I have a training.dat file of 380K... after over six months
    of use (10 Jul 2006 first use) - and my catch ratio is 99.8% (for every
    spam I see in my inbox, JMC has already caught 200). I have not had a
    false positive in six months, so I figure thats a low enough ratio ,
    you cant get better than 0.

    My suggestion to you is to desist with marking good emails as junk

  19. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Brian Heinrich wrote:
    > On 2006-12-30 21:14 (-0700 UTC), Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >> I used to get 300 [spam] per day on my accounts, and that was eight
    >> years ago.
    >> So I did something about it... I fought back. I have much less now,
    >> and spam has increased 20 or 30 times since then.
    >>
    >> but still 904K after one day is still excessive. Even with 300 per day
    >> that means 3KB for each message! 3000Kilobytes for each message! Heck
    >> some spam isnt that big! And since much spam is duplicated have 904KB
    >> after 1 day (and 300 spam) is really excessive.

    >
    > 'Pends on how many unique strings there are. Hence why I recommend the
    > Bayes Junk Tool to prune training.dat and keep things functioning
    > smoothly. . . .
    >



    Um, why?
    Why use another program/tool unless you need it?

    For example: My JMC is catching 99.8% of all spam sent to me
    False Positive ratio is zero (none in six months)

    Why would I have to fiddle with it? All I do is mark those that are spam
    as spam, and unmark any it catches which are not

    No fiddling required - no pruning required.

    Now, you recommend that you mark good messages as non-junk, but then you
    recommend 'pruning' the training.dat. May I ask why?
    compared to mine it seems you are just wasting time and energy. Dont
    bloat the file in the first place and you wouldnt have to prune it later
    it seems to me.

    If your catch ratio was higher than mine, you might have a point. But it
    isnt. Likewise if your false postive ratio was lower than mine, but
    again it isnt. So what, besides the technical data available, is the
    value of the tool. I have it, but dont see a requirement for it at all.

  20. Re: Junk Mail Controls stopped working, mostly

    Penthor-Mul wrote:
    > Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >> Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>> Brian Heinrich wrote:
    >>>> On 2006-12-30 13:26 (-0700 UTC), Snagglepuss wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Penthor-Mul wrote:
    >>>>>> I get a lot of spam, 50-75/day.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Penthor
    >>>>>
    >>>>> is that all. I get around 300 a day, and thats from one account.
    >>>>> And I'm sure someone will say they get more.
    >>>>
    >>>> A friend of mine gets about 1 200 e-mail a day, about 400 of which
    >>>> make it to his inbox . . . and 30-40% of that amount are legitimate.
    >>>>
    >>>> /b.
    >>>>
    >>> well, there you go. I said someone would reply, didn't I :-)
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> I used to get 300 per day on my accounts, and that was eight years ago.
    >> So I did something about it... I fought back. I have much less now,
    >> and spam has increased 20 or 30 times since then.
    >>
    >> but still 904K after one day is still excessive. Even with 300 per day
    >> that means 3KB for each message! 3000Kilobytes for each message! Heck
    >> some spam isnt that big! And since much spam is duplicated have 904KB
    >> after 1 day (and 300 spam) is really excessive.

    >
    > You fought back? How so Dan? Pipe bombs
    > Seriously, how?
    >
    > Penthor


    Fighting back

    Get spam
    Go to spam site (to see if its still there!)
    do a traceroute to the spam site
    report the site to its host for spamming

    Do the same for any 'image' site used in the spam
    and for any 'sign-off' site as well.

    I use Visual Route for tracing, but it can be done with NeoTrace or just
    the normal utilities on any computer (trace route/dig etc)

    Its simple, its easy, and effective. Can reduce spam intake up to 99%
    (mine was reduced from 200/300 per day (and this in 1997 - it would be
    over 2000 today) to less than 10 per week.

    Most ISPs will take action within the week, some large ones take two
    weeks (AT&T and China.com for example). Spammer cant sell anything with
    no web site, hurts them where it counts.


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