Cross-posted items - Mozilla

This is a discussion on Cross-posted items - Mozilla ; Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a message has been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and mark it read in all of the groups as soon as I have read it once? I keep ...

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  1. Cross-posted items

    Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a message has
    been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and mark it read in all of
    the groups as soon as I have read it once? I keep getting presented
    with the same posts in multiple NGs. Other newsreaders, such as
    Gravity, can certainly do this.
    --
    Wilf

  2. Re: Cross-posted items

    Wilf wrote:
    > Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a message has
    > been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and mark it read in all of
    > the groups as soon as I have read it once? I keep getting presented
    > with the same posts in multiple NGs. Other newsreaders, such as
    > Gravity, can certainly do this.

    thats one of the most often asked request, and no such luck.

    --
    Pic of the Day: http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fastdoglp2.jpg

  3. Re: Cross-posted items

    gwtc wrote:
    > Wilf wrote:
    >> Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a message has
    >> been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and mark it read in all of
    >> the groups as soon as I have read it once? I keep getting presented
    >> with the same posts in multiple NGs. Other newsreaders, such as
    >> Gravity, can certainly do this.

    > thats one of the most often asked request, and no such luck.
    >

    aw, shucks :-(
    Is it something that is likely to be developed, though?

    --
    Wilf

  4. Re: Cross-posted items

    Wilf wrote:
    > gwtc wrote:
    >> Wilf wrote:
    >>> Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a message
    >>> has been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and mark it read in
    >>> all of the groups as soon as I have read it once? I keep getting
    >>> presented with the same posts in multiple NGs. Other newsreaders,
    >>> such as Gravity, can certainly do this.

    >> thats one of the most often asked request, and no such luck.
    >>

    > aw, shucks :-(
    > Is it something that is likely to be developed, though?
    >


    Its oft requested, I have no heard of anyone who is actively working on
    the issue tho. I dont know, perhaps in TB 2 or 3 maybe?

  5. Re: Cross-posted items

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    > Wilf wrote:
    >> gwtc wrote:
    >>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>> Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a message
    >>>> has been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and mark it read in
    >>>> all of the groups as soon as I have read it once? I keep getting
    >>>> presented with the same posts in multiple NGs. Other newsreaders,
    >>>> such as Gravity, can certainly do this.
    >>> thats one of the most often asked request, and no such luck.
    >>>

    >> aw, shucks :-(
    >> Is it something that is likely to be developed, though?
    >>

    >
    > Its oft requested, I have no heard of anyone who is actively working on
    > the issue tho. I dont know, perhaps in TB 2 or 3 maybe?

    ok, thanks. Seems a bad omission for a decent news reader.

    --
    Wilf

  6. Re: Cross-posted items

    Wilf wrote:
    > Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >> Wilf wrote:
    >>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>>> Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a message
    >>>>> has been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and mark it read in
    >>>>> all of the groups as soon as I have read it once? I keep getting
    >>>>> presented with the same posts in multiple NGs. Other newsreaders,
    >>>>> such as Gravity, can certainly do this.
    >>>> thats one of the most often asked request, and no such luck.
    >>>>
    >>> aw, shucks :-(
    >>> Is it something that is likely to be developed, though?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Its oft requested, I have no heard of anyone who is actively working
    >> on the issue tho. I dont know, perhaps in TB 2 or 3 maybe?

    > ok, thanks. Seems a bad omission for a decent news reader.
    >



    It was not an intended omission. It was an artifact of the way that TB
    handles news messages. To implement such a system would mean wholesale
    changes in the code that the developers didnt feel was warrantted at
    this point.

    Kind like trying to 'addon' an efficient heater to an air cooled engine
    (as in a car). The design of the engine and sub systems DOESNT lend
    itself to an efficient or effective heater arrangement, like in a water
    cooled system. The heater has to be an entirely seperate system,
    bearing little or no relation to the underlying basic engine.

    While a water cooled engine design could simply route some of the
    coolent through a 'radiator' in the passaneger compartment, no such
    means existed in an air cooled engine. Both Volkswagon and the Corvair
    experimented with exhaust gas systems, Volksagon finally going to a gas
    heater for cold weather markets.

  7. Re: Cross-posted items

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    > Wilf wrote:
    >> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>>>> Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a message
    >>>>>> has been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and mark it read in
    >>>>>> all of the groups as soon as I have read it once? I keep getting
    >>>>>> presented with the same posts in multiple NGs. Other newsreaders,
    >>>>>> such as Gravity, can certainly do this.
    >>>>> thats one of the most often asked request, and no such luck.
    >>>>>
    >>>> aw, shucks :-(
    >>>> Is it something that is likely to be developed, though?
    >>>>
    >>> Its oft requested, I have no heard of anyone who is actively working
    >>> on the issue tho. I dont know, perhaps in TB 2 or 3 maybe?

    >> ok, thanks. Seems a bad omission for a decent news reader.
    >>

    >
    >
    > It was not an intended omission. It was an artifact of the way that TB
    > handles news messages.

    <..>
    <..>
    oh well, a pity in any case. Thanks.


    --
    Wilf

  8. Re: Cross-posted items

    "Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote in
    :

    > Wilf wrote:
    >> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>>>> Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a
    >>>>>> message has been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and
    >>>>>> mark it read in all of the groups as soon as I have read it
    >>>>>> once? I keep getting presented with the same posts in
    >>>>>> multiple NGs. Other newsreaders, such as Gravity, can
    >>>>>> certainly do this.
    >>>>> thats one of the most often asked request, and no such luck.
    >>>>>
    >>>> aw, shucks :-(
    >>>> Is it something that is likely to be developed, though?
    >>>
    >>> Its oft requested, I have no heard of anyone who is actively
    >>> working on the issue tho. I dont know, perhaps in TB 2 or 3
    >>> maybe?

    >>
    >> ok, thanks. Seems a bad omission for a decent news reader.

    >
    > It was not an intended omission. It was an artifact of the way
    > that TB handles news messages. To implement such a system would
    > mean wholesale changes in the code that the developers didnt feel
    > was warrantted at this point.


    Doesn't Thunderbird just use standard newsrc files to keep track of
    read messages in subscribed groups? If so, ISTM marking crossposts
    read in all subscribed groups should be just a matter of looking at the
    Xref headers and rewriting the necessary rc files.

    --
    Q

  9. Re: Cross-posted items

    Q wrote:
    > "Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote in
    > :
    >
    >> Wilf wrote:
    >>> Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>>> Wilf wrote:
    >>>>>>> Is here some way I can get Thunderbird to recognise that a
    >>>>>>> message has been cross-posted to a number of newsgroups and
    >>>>>>> mark it read in all of the groups as soon as I have read it
    >>>>>>> once? I keep getting presented with the same posts in
    >>>>>>> multiple NGs. Other newsreaders, such as Gravity, can
    >>>>>>> certainly do this.
    >>>>>> thats one of the most often asked request, and no such luck.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> aw, shucks :-(
    >>>>> Is it something that is likely to be developed, though?
    >>>> Its oft requested, I have no heard of anyone who is actively
    >>>> working on the issue tho. I dont know, perhaps in TB 2 or 3
    >>>> maybe?
    >>> ok, thanks. Seems a bad omission for a decent news reader.

    >> It was not an intended omission. It was an artifact of the way
    >> that TB handles news messages. To implement such a system would
    >> mean wholesale changes in the code that the developers didnt feel
    >> was warrantted at this point.

    >
    > Doesn't Thunderbird just use standard newsrc files to keep track of
    > read messages in subscribed groups? If so, ISTM marking crossposts
    > read in all subscribed groups should be just a matter of looking at the
    > Xref headers and rewriting the necessary rc files.
    >



    Well, I am no expert in the area, but thats what the various bugs on the
    subject say. That it cant be done (easily) in Thunderbird given the
    current archatecture. It would mean a total rewrite of the resource.
    Thats what the developers say, go ask them.

  10. Re: Cross-posted items

    _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 16/09/2006 8:52 AM:
    > To implement such a system would mean wholesale
    > changes in the code that the developers didnt feel was warrantted at
    > this point.


    Can you back up that statement with a reference?
    According to the bug report[1], it wouldn't require "wholesale" changes
    at all.

    [1]
    --
    Chris Ilias
    mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
    Mozilla links
    (Please do not email me tech support questions)

  11. Re: Cross-posted items

    Chris Ilias wrote in
    :

    > _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 16/09/2006 8:52 AM:
    >> To implement such a system would mean wholesale
    >> changes in the code that the developers didnt feel was warrantted
    >> at this point.

    >
    > Can you back up that statement with a reference?
    > According to the bug report[1], it wouldn't require "wholesale"
    > changes at all.
    >
    > [1]


    Thanks for the link, Chris. I had searched for Thunderbird bugs rather
    than Core bugs -- when will I ever learn?

    --
    Q

  12. Re: Cross-posted items

    Chris Ilias wrote:
    > _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 16/09/2006 8:52 AM:
    >> To implement such a system would mean wholesale changes in the code
    >> that the developers didnt feel was warrantted at this point.

    >
    > Can you back up that statement with a reference?
    > According to the bug report[1], it wouldn't require "wholesale" changes
    > at all.
    >
    > [1]


    look at comment 30, 36, 46, 47, 80, 81



    Its really simple to anyone who cant do it it seems But even
    accomplished programmers have thrown in the towel, after they run into
    problems with their patch.

    It aint simple, and it WILL throw a monkey wrench into other aspects of
    the program - take a look at at the 'patches' that have been offered
    throughout the life of the bug - please fix one or the other so it
    works, without breaking other aspects of the program.

    If it wont require wholesale changes, then PLEASE write a patch that
    fixes the bug! At least 4 people over the years, experienced
    programmers, have tried, and have come up against one problem or another.

    I am not trying to be flippant here, or using a boilerplate. The problem
    ISNT as simple as it looks, and it DOES (or so far HAS) run into
    problems with other aspects of the program when implemented.

  13. Re: Cross-posted items

    _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 18/09/2006 8:12 PM:
    > Chris Ilias wrote:
    >
    >> [1]

    >
    > look at comment 30, 36, 46, 47, 80, 81


    I did. Some of those say nothing about wholesale changes, while others,
    like in comment 80, have their info wrong, and are corrected in comment 82.

    > Its really simple to anyone who cant do it it seems


    Look in the mirror.

    > But even
    > accomplished programmers have thrown in the towel, after they run into
    > problems with their patch.


    What, you mean problems like "I'm aware of this bug and would like to do
    something about it but there are higher priority things on my list", or
    "I won't have time in the forseeable future to care for this patch, sorry"?

    Even the guy who, unlike you or I, does know the code, said "I
    don't remember this being that complicated in 4.x, so I'll try to
    remember how I did that."

    --
    Chris Ilias
    mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
    Mozilla links
    (Please do not email me tech support questions)

  14. Re: Cross-posted items

    _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 19/09/2006 2:09 AM:
    > If you dont like my summary of the problem, then YOU explain why it isnt
    > fixed.


    The quotes explain why it isn't fixed:
    "I'm aware of this bug and would like to do something about it but there
    are higher priority things on my list"
    "I won't have time in the forseeable future to care for this patch, sorry"
    And let's not forget "Assigned To:Nobody's working on this, feel free to
    take it"

    There are many such bugs in Thunderbird that aren't fixed, because of
    two reasons:
    - lack of manpower
    - news is lower priority than email
    --
    Chris Ilias
    mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
    Mozilla links
    (Please do not email me tech support questions)

  15. Re: Cross-posted items

    Chris Ilias wrote:
    > _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 19/09/2006 2:09 AM:
    >> If you dont like my summary of the problem, then YOU explain why it
    >> isnt fixed.

    >
    > The quotes explain why it isn't fixed:
    > "I'm aware of this bug and would like to do something about it but there
    > are higher priority things on my list"
    > "I won't have time in the forseeable future to care for this patch, sorry"
    > And let's not forget "Assigned To:Nobody's working on this, feel free to
    > take it"
    >
    > There are many such bugs in Thunderbird that aren't fixed, because of
    > two reasons:
    > - lack of manpower
    > - news is lower priority than email


    Thats one persons reason for not fixing it. You mean he was the ONLY
    person capbable of doing it? So, one person says he doesnt have the
    time, so NO ONE else has the time either?

    If I posted in the thread and gave MY reason, that I dont know HOW to do
    it, does that mean no one else knows how to do it either? According to
    you, it seems so.

    One of the people who we assume knows how to do it, doesnt have the time
    to do so. Thats the reason HE isnt working on it. Its not the reason for
    everyone else.

    News is lower priority than mail. In Communicator, the non display of
    duplicates exntended to email as well. In fact, if you got an email
    message, yoiu didnt 'see' *using next unread* the message in any of your
    newsgroups either. It was actually a nifty feature, but did lead to
    questions about unread numbers... 'how come when I first display a
    group it says 9 messages, but when I get there there are only 6 unread
    -doesnt happen all the time'.

  16. Re: Cross-posted items

    _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 19/09/2006 4:14 AM:
    > One of the people who we assume knows how to do it, doesnt have the time
    > to do so. Thats the reason HE isnt working on it. Its not the reason for
    > everyone else.


    Dan, bugs must be assigned to people first. Those who are not assigned
    to the bug, and don't have the time to fix it, aren't going to comment
    saying "I don't have time to work on this."

    A laborious or complex patch is not necessarily one that requires
    "wholesale" changes in the code. That was a big assumption on your part,
    especially the BS about developers not feeling it "was warrantted."
    --
    Chris Ilias
    mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
    Mozilla links
    (Please do not email me tech support questions)

  17. Re: Cross-posted items

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    > Chris Ilias wrote:
    >> _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 18/09/2006 8:12 PM:
    >>> Chris Ilias wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> [1]
    >>>
    >>> look at comment 30, 36, 46, 47, 80, 81

    >>
    >> I did. Some of those say nothing about wholesale changes, while
    >> others, like in comment 80, have their info wrong, and are corrected
    >> in comment 82.
    >>
    >>> Its really simple to anyone who cant do it it seems

    >>
    >> Look in the mirror.
    >>
    >>> But even accomplished programmers have thrown in the towel, after
    >>> they run into problems with their patch.

    >>
    >> What, you mean problems like "I'm aware of this bug and would like to
    >> do something about it but there are higher priority things on my
    >> list", or "I won't have time in the forseeable future to care for this
    >> patch, sorry"?
    >>
    >> Even the guy who, unlike you or I, does know the code, said "I
    >> don't remember this being that complicated in 4.x, so I'll try to
    >> remember how I did that."
    >>

    >
    >
    > Well, if its so easy then, YOU fix it! Gosh durn it!
    >
    >
    > I cant, and I admit that. But I'm not about to denigrate those who have
    > tried (and failed) by claiming it should be an easy fix.
    >
    > Yep David said that, on the 22nd of April, over two years ago.
    > In January 2005, David explains that he hasnt had the time to work on
    > it. Thats the last we hear from David until August 25 2006 in which he
    > defends Mork.
    >
    > Heck, if its so easy, then why havent the folks at SeaMonkey fixed it
    > either? If its so easy, then why in over two years has there been no
    > extension to fix it!
    >
    > Sheesh, it couldnt be fixed in the suite, it isnt fixed in Thunderbird,
    > it isnt fixed in SeaMonkey, there isnt even an extension that does it.
    > Okay, so maybe it shouldnt be fixed in SeaMonkey because it was a core
    > routine problem, but heck dont anyone even KNOW how to do it?
    >
    > Its seems not. Several have tried over the years, but seem to fail when
    > hitting other aspeccts of the program. So, to FIX this bug some other
    > portions of the base program will have to be rewritten. And no-one has
    > stepped forward yet with the skills and knowledge to do that yet.
    >
    > If you dont like my summary of the problem, then YOU explain why it isnt
    > fixed.
    >


    This is one of the shortcomings with open source. First, someone must
    want to fix it, second, that person must have the necessary skill to fix
    it, and lastly, the fix must not break other program functions, or
    violate the framework, or consistency of the software. Not always as
    easy as it sounds. In my experience, the programming tasks that seem
    simplest have always been the most problem. Often the ones that seem
    really hard yield to simple fixes. As for cross-posting, I would really
    like to see a user defined limit to cross-posting which would simply
    disallow more than x number of newsgroups to be listed in a reply. The
    current group and x others.

  18. Re: Cross-posted items

    Chris Ilias wrote:
    > _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 19/09/2006 4:14 AM:
    >> One of the people who we assume knows how to do it, doesnt have the
    >> time to do so. Thats the reason HE isnt working on it. Its not the
    >> reason for everyone else.

    >
    > Dan, bugs must be assigned to people first. Those who are not assigned
    > to the bug, and don't have the time to fix it, aren't going to comment
    > saying "I don't have time to work on this."
    >
    > A laborious or complex patch is not necessarily one that requires
    > "wholesale" changes in the code. That was a big assumption on your part,
    > especially the BS about developers not feeling it "was warrantted."



    Bugs dont have to be assigned neccessarily. There are many bugs I see
    that are currently unassigned and asking for volunteers. No one has
    stepped forward and volunteered to take this one.

    Thats my take on the situation, a valid take even if I do say so myself.

    Once more, you call me wrong, but fail to provide ANY insight on the
    reason why this bug is still with us after all these years. At least 4
    people have tried to fix this bug - but I guess since one of them posted
    HE doesnt have the time, he spoke for them all?

    Again, why is this bug NOT getting fixed? If I am so WRONG in my take,
    why dont you give us the scoop and tell use why its not being fixed. Do
    you know why?


  19. Re: Cross-posted items

    _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly on 19/09/2006 6:57 AM:
    > Bugs dont have to be assigned neccessarily. There are many bugs I see
    > that are currently unassigned and asking for volunteers. No one has
    > stepped forward and volunteered to take this one.
    >
    > Thats my take on the situation, a valid take even if I do say so myself.
    >
    > Once more, you call me wrong, but fail to provide ANY insight on the
    > reason why this bug is still with us after all these years. At least 4
    > people have tried to fix this bug - but I guess since one of them posted
    > HE doesnt have the time, he spoke for them all?


    Bugs will have a default assignee. In this case, when the bugs was
    opened it was assigned to someone. The assignee changed to someone else,
    then back to the default. It was only assigned to "Nobody" a few months
    ago, after the bug was open for six years.

    So, that's two people that tried to fix the bug, and those quotes I gave
    you were from two different people, not one.

    > Again, why is this bug NOT getting fixed? If I am so WRONG in my take,
    > why dont you give us the scoop and tell use why its not being fixed. Do
    > you know why?


    I already did. The people that were assigned to do it, didn't have the
    time to fix it, and didn't consider it to be high priority.

    Your take was "To implement such a system would mean wholesale changes
    in the code that the developers didnt feel was warrantted at this
    point", which was unfounded.
    --
    Chris Ilias
    mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
    Mozilla links
    (Please do not email me tech support questions)

  20. Re: Cross-posted items


    >
    > I already did. The people that were assigned to do it, didn't have the
    > time to fix it, and didn't consider it to be high priority.


    May I jump in here? When I don't have time for something it is usually
    because I have too many other things to do. A few times it may be
    because I'm just lazy and other things take priority--like goofing off.
    But those aren't the only reasons for saying "I don't have time to fix it."

    I may have begun a project, only to discover that it is more complicated
    and time-consuming than first anticipated. In which case I would have to
    shelve it for later while I catch up on easier projects--but it's still
    "I don't have time to fix it."

    I'm not working on any code for TB--I just thought I would share another
    perspective on this "I don't have time to fix it." It could simply be
    beyond one's resources--whether time or ability.

    Regards,
    Steve H

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