Bradley wrote:
> Hey all,
> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my
> new computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and
> both were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when I
> started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When it's
> finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it can't start
> TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by FF). This NEVER
> happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an update process too. When
> it's finished I restart and it says (this is TB remember) that the
> FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course TB doesn't use that
> extension). Very suspicious.


FYI, FF and TB use totally separate profiles - and profile folders.
Since FF is a browser-only, it has no need to use the TB profile, and
vice-versa.

What version of TB were/are you using? There have been no updates to TB
since 1.5 was released.

Bradley wrote:
> Hey all,
> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my new
> computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and both
> were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when I
> started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When
> it's finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it
> can't start TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by
> FF). This NEVER happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an
> update process too. When it's finished I restart and it says (this is
> TB remember) that the FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course
> TB doesn't use that extension). Very suspicious.
>
> So, I'm starting and stopping both apps to see what's up. I go to
> explorer to look at the profile directories and see that every thing's
> still there, but when I click on FF's profile directory, windows says
> it no longer exists! THEN I go to my TB email directory and every
> thing's gone except for 0 or 1-2k files. Wiped clean. TB AND FF!!
> I ran FreeUndelete (a very good app, by the way) and managed to
> recover the chrome directory (big woop) and one bookmark backup. TB
> and/or FF managed to destroy both profiles in the update confusion
> process.
>
> POOR, POOR programming I must say. I've got a two week old backup
> from the other computer, but the Mozilla corp has f*cked me out of 2
> weeks of emails. What is it about TB and FF's propensity to destroy
> your data?
>
> I'm just letting off steam here and I know everyone's going to rush in
> here and say that THEY never had a problems and why aren't I backing
> up my data every 30 minutes... I've been using PCs since the
> beginning and have NEVER had data loss due to a program's
> incompetence: EXCEPT for TB and FF. Good job fellas, but hey, it's
> free.
>
> Well, off to get some kind of daily backup back in place because these
> programs can't be trusted to keep your data safe.
>
> -bradly

IMO, the cause of your problem may be peculiar, arcane, with blame
ascribable to multiple sources or none at all, and in the end unknowable
with analytic or even intuitive certainty. Given the forgoing as a constant
of computing that's not about to change anytime soon, if your computer is
robust enough to handle it, with GoBack installed you will never lose any
mail, bookmarks, chrome, or entire applications due to bad updates, operator
error, or anything else. At least not for long. But good luck in dealing
with your present problem.

As an example, last night I installed minimize-to-tray for the umpteenth
time, but found out once again that the developers still haven't been able,
or concerned enough, to deal with the multiple icons in the tray problem
that normal use of T-Bird generates. But in trying to uninstall this
extension, it would not leave the dialog box - even after "uninstall" had
been greyed-out, and continued to generate a tray icon after T-Bird was
re-opened. My fault? Their fault? Don't care, doesn't matter, not a user
issue, because thanks to a GoBack revert it's just plain gone now.

Roger Fink wrote:
> Bradley wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my new
>> computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and both
>> were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when I
>> started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When
>> it's finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it
>> can't start TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by
>> FF). This NEVER happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an
>> update process too. When it's finished I restart and it says (this is
>> TB remember) that the FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course
>> TB doesn't use that extension). Very suspicious.
>>
>> So, I'm starting and stopping both apps to see what's up. I go to
>> explorer to look at the profile directories and see that every
>> thing's still there, but when I click on FF's profile directory,
>> windows says
>> it no longer exists! THEN I go to my TB email directory and every
>> thing's gone except for 0 or 1-2k files. Wiped clean. TB AND FF!!
>> I ran FreeUndelete (a very good app, by the way) and managed to
>> recover the chrome directory (big woop) and one bookmark backup. TB
>> and/or FF managed to destroy both profiles in the update confusion
>> process.
>>
>> POOR, POOR programming I must say. I've got a two week old backup
>> from the other computer, but the Mozilla corp has f*cked me out of 2
>> weeks of emails. What is it about TB and FF's propensity to destroy
>> your data?
>>
>> I'm just letting off steam here and I know everyone's going to rush
>> in here and say that THEY never had a problems and why aren't I
>> backing
>> up my data every 30 minutes... I've been using PCs since the
>> beginning and have NEVER had data loss due to a program's
>> incompetence: EXCEPT for TB and FF. Good job fellas, but hey, it's
>> free.
>>
>> Well, off to get some kind of daily backup back in place because
>> these programs can't be trusted to keep your data safe.
>>
>> -bradly
>
> IMO, the cause of your problem may be peculiar, arcane, with blame
> ascribable to multiple sources or none at all, and in the end
> unknowable with analytic or even intuitive certainty. Given the
> forgoing as a constant of computing that's not about to change
> anytime soon, if your computer is robust enough to handle it, with
> GoBack installed you will never lose any mail, bookmarks, chrome, or
> entire applications due to bad updates, operator error, or anything
> else. At least not for long. But good luck in dealing with your
> present problem.
>
> As an example, last night I installed minimize-to-tray for the
> umpteenth time, but found out once again that the developers still
> haven't been able, or concerned enough, to deal with the multiple
> icons in the tray problem that normal use of T-Bird generates. But in
> trying to uninstall this extension, it would not leave the dialog box
> - even after "uninstall" had been greyed-out, and continued to
> generate a tray icon after T-Bird was re-opened. My fault? Their
> fault? Don't care, doesn't matter, not a user issue, because thanks
> to a GoBack revert it's just plain gone now.

"..due to bad updates, operator error, or anything
else."
Except for things like hardware failure and security breaches. Pardon me.

_Bradley_ spoke thusly on 04/02/2006 7:14 AM:
> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my
> new computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and
> both were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when I
> started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When it's
> finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it can't start
> TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by FF). This NEVER
> happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an update process too. When
> it's finished I restart and it says (this is TB remember) that the
> FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course TB doesn't use that
> extension). Very suspicious.
>
> So, I'm starting and stopping both apps to see what's up. I go to
> explorer to look at the profile directories and see that every thing's
> still there, but when I click on FF's profile directory, windows says it
> no longer exists! THEN I go to my TB email directory and every thing's
> gone except for 0 or 1-2k files. Wiped clean. TB AND FF!! I ran
> FreeUndelete (a very good app, by the way) and managed to recover the
> chrome directory (big woop) and one bookmark backup. TB and/or FF
> managed to destroy both profiles in the update confusion process.
>
> POOR, POOR programming I must say. I've got a two week old backup from
> the other computer, but the Mozilla corp has f*cked me out of 2 weeks of
> emails. What is it about TB and FF's propensity to destroy your data?
>
> I'm just letting off steam here and I know everyone's going to rush in
> here and say that THEY never had a problems and why aren't I backing up
> my data every 30 minutes... I've been using PCs since the beginning and
> have NEVER had data loss due to a program's incompetence: EXCEPT for TB
> and FF. Good job fellas, but hey, it's free.
>
> Well, off to get some kind of daily backup back in place because these
> programs can't be trusted to keep your data safe.

I've never ever heard of a Firefox update affecting Thunderbird. Is
there anything unusual about your set up? Profiles not in the default
directory? Programs installed in a custom folder (not default)? Did you
set them up to share anything?
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
Mozilla links
(Please do not email me tech support questions)

Ken Wagner wrote:
> Bradley wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my
>> new computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and
>> both were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when I
>> started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When
>> it's finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it
>> can't start TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by
>> FF). This NEVER happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an
>> update process too. When it's finished I restart and it says (this is
>> TB remember) that the FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course
>> TB doesn't use that extension). Very suspicious.
>
>
> FYI, FF and TB use totally separate profiles - and profile folders.
> Since FF is a browser-only, it has no need to use the TB profile, and
> vice-versa.
>
> What version of TB were/are you using? There have been no updates to TB
> since 1.5 was released.
That's my point. When I started TB it attempted to go through an update
process. TB and FF were using the same profile directory only. I was
surprised too when TB tried to do the update thing. Don't ask me how,
but they both got seriously confused during the update process and hosed
both profiles. I've since moved them to two separate directories and
have a daily backup going for both.

-b

Bradley wrote:
> Ken Wagner wrote:
>> Bradley wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my
>>> new computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and
>>> both were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when
>>> I started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When
>>> it's finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it
>>> can't start TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by
>>> FF). This NEVER happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an
>>> update process too. When it's finished I restart and it says (this is
>>> TB remember) that the FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course
>>> TB doesn't use that extension). Very suspicious.
>>
>>
>> FYI, FF and TB use totally separate profiles - and profile folders.
>> Since FF is a browser-only, it has no need to use the TB profile, and
>> vice-versa.
>>
>> What version of TB were/are you using? There have been no updates to
>> TB since 1.5 was released.
> That's my point. When I started TB it attempted to go through an update
> process. TB and FF were using the same profile directory only.

The two programs *don't* use the same profile directory. Since your
headers indicate that you're using Windows, unless you changed the
default directories, your profiles will be the following:
For Firefox: \Documents and Settings\username\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\profile_name
For Thunderbird: \Documents and Settings\username\Application
Data\Thunderbird\Profiles\profile_name

Again, what version of Thunderbird were you using when it attempted to
update? Are you certain that the update was for Thunderbird, and not an
extension or a theme?

_Bradley_ spoke thusly on 04/02/2006 5:13 PM:
> TB and FF were using the same profile directory only.

They don't use the same profile directory by default. Setting them to
use the same directory will cause problems; and I'm surprised it took
this long for a problem to arise. Do not make them use the same profile
folder. If anyone advised you to do that, I'd love to know whom.
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
Mozilla links
(Please do not email me tech support questions)

Bradley wrote:
> Hey all,
> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my
> new computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and
> both were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when I
> started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When it's
> finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it can't start
> TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by FF). This NEVER
> happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an update process too. When
> it's finished I restart and it says (this is TB remember) that the
> FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course TB doesn't use that
> extension). Very suspicious.
>
> So, I'm starting and stopping both apps to see what's up. I go to
> explorer to look at the profile directories and see that every thing's
> still there, but when I click on FF's profile directory, windows says it
> no longer exists! THEN I go to my TB email directory and every thing's
> gone except for 0 or 1-2k files. Wiped clean. TB AND FF!! I ran
> FreeUndelete (a very good app, by the way) and managed to recover the
> chrome directory (big woop) and one bookmark backup. TB and/or FF
> managed to destroy both profiles in the update confusion process.
>
> POOR, POOR programming I must say. I've got a two week old backup from
> the other computer, but the Mozilla corp has f*cked me out of 2 weeks of
> emails. What is it about TB and FF's propensity to destroy your data?
>
> I'm just letting off steam here and I know everyone's going to rush in
> here and say that THEY never had a problems and why aren't I backing up
> my data every 30 minutes... I've been using PCs since the beginning and
> have NEVER had data loss due to a program's incompetence: EXCEPT for TB
> and FF. Good job fellas, but hey, it's free.
>
> Well, off to get some kind of daily backup back in place because these
> programs can't be trusted to keep your data safe.
>
> -bradly

Hi Bradly,
I feel your pain, and while I've experienced my share of glitches in FF
and TB over the years, nothing this severe has happened to me. Do you
use MozBackUp? It's a stand-alone app that has saved me many times and
I don't use FF and TB without it now. It backs up your profile and
gives you the option of selecting what data to save (emails, settings,
even themes and extensions, although it's still a little wonky on
restoring extensions). Anyway, check it out...it's available here:
http://mozbackup.jasnapaka.com.
Good luck.
- Josh

Josh Rose wrote:

> Bradley wrote:
>
>>Hey all,
>> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my
>>new computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and
>>both were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when I
>>started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When it's
>>finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it can't start
>>TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by FF). This NEVER
>>happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an update process too. When
>>it's finished I restart and it says (this is TB remember) that the
>>FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course TB doesn't use that
>>extension). Very suspicious.
>>
>>So, I'm starting and stopping both apps to see what's up. I go to
>>explorer to look at the profile directories and see that every thing's
>>still there, but when I click on FF's profile directory, windows says it
>>no longer exists! THEN I go to my TB email directory and every thing's
>>gone except for 0 or 1-2k files. Wiped clean. TB AND FF!! I ran
>>FreeUndelete (a very good app, by the way) and managed to recover the
>>chrome directory (big woop) and one bookmark backup. TB and/or FF
>>managed to destroy both profiles in the update confusion process.
>>
>>POOR, POOR programming I must say. I've got a two week old backup from
>>the other computer, but the Mozilla corp has f*cked me out of 2 weeks of
>>emails. What is it about TB and FF's propensity to destroy your data?
>>
>>I'm just letting off steam here and I know everyone's going to rush in
>>here and say that THEY never had a problems and why aren't I backing up
>>my data every 30 minutes... I've been using PCs since the beginning and
>>have NEVER had data loss due to a program's incompetence: EXCEPT for TB
>>and FF. Good job fellas, but hey, it's free.
>>
>>Well, off to get some kind of daily backup back in place because these
>>programs can't be trusted to keep your data safe.
>>
>>-bradly
>
>
> Hi Bradly,
> I feel your pain, and while I've experienced my share of glitches in FF
> and TB over the years, nothing this severe has happened to me. Do you
> use MozBackUp? It's a stand-alone app that has saved me many times and
> I don't use FF and TB without it now. It backs up your profile and
> gives you the option of selecting what data to save (emails, settings,
> even themes and extensions, although it's still a little wonky on
> restoring extensions). Anyway, check it out...it's available here:
> http://mozbackup.jasnapaka.com.
> Good luck.
> - Josh
then use your zip program

--
Time for a change

Chris Ilias wrote:
> _Bradley_ spoke thusly on 04/02/2006 7:14 AM:
>> (trying to remain calm). I just recently set up FF and TB on my
>> new computer (about a week ago). I've been using both for years and
>> both were working perfect for the last two weeks. This morning when I
>> started FF I get the automatic update thing, so I let it go. When
>> it's finished I restarted FF. Then I started TB. NOW it says it
>> can't start TB because the profile's already in use (presumably by
>> FF). This NEVER happened before. I stop FF. THEN, TB starts an
>> update process too. When it's finished I restart and it says (this is
>> TB remember) that the FlashBlock extention no longer works (of course
>> TB doesn't use that extension). Very suspicious.
>>
>> So, I'm starting and stopping both apps to see what's up. I go to
>> explorer to look at the profile directories and see that every thing's
>> still there, but when I click on FF's profile directory, windows says
>> it no longer exists! THEN I go to my TB email directory and every
>> thing's gone except for 0 or 1-2k files. Wiped clean. TB AND FF!! I
>> ran FreeUndelete (a very good app, by the way) and managed to recover
>> the chrome directory (big woop) and one bookmark backup. TB and/or FF
>> managed to destroy both profiles in the update confusion process.
>>
>> POOR, POOR programming I must say. I've got a two week old backup
>> from the other computer, but the Mozilla corp has f*cked me out of 2
>> weeks of emails. What is it about TB and FF's propensity to destroy
>> your data?
>>
>> I'm just letting off steam here and I know everyone's going to rush in
>> here and say that THEY never had a problems and why aren't I backing
>> up my data every 30 minutes... I've been using PCs since the
>> beginning and have NEVER had data loss due to a program's
>> incompetence: EXCEPT for TB and FF. Good job fellas, but hey, it's
>> free.
>>
>> Well, off to get some kind of daily backup back in place because these
>> programs can't be trusted to keep your data safe.
>
> I've never ever heard of a Firefox update affecting Thunderbird. Is
> there anything unusual about your set up? Profiles not in the default
> directory? Programs installed in a custom folder (not default)? Did you
> set them up to share anything?
I'm sure it was just one of those freak things that would never happen
again in a million years. TB and FF shared the same directory (but not
anymore), but that's all. Anyway, on to new challenges...

-b