Alex K. wrote:
> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>
> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
> just as they do with iTunes.
>
> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>
> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>
> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>
I received the Install notice yesterday and it concerned me that it had
already been installed behind the scenes. It bothered me enough to
spend time searching for the installation. Personally I agree with
everything Mr. Lilly said, and don't like it when someone *sneaks* into
my computer with such an action. I use and like iTunes, their store is
the best on the I'Net, but I don't care for Apple's business practices
as concerns this latest event.

Alex K. wrote:
> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>
> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
> just as they do with iTunes.
>
> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>
> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>
> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>

Although that is the way it appears on the Apple Software updater, the
the point of the screen you are allowed to uncheck the items just before
beginning install.

If you can't on the Windows version Then that is a bug in in the windows
installer system.

The the fellow try uncheck Safari before beginning the install?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don Nickell wrote:
> Alex K. wrote:
>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>
>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>
>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>
>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>
>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>
> I received the Install notice yesterday and it concerned me that it had
> already been installed behind the scenes. It bothered me enough to
> spend time searching for the installation. Personally I agree with
> everything Mr. Lilly said, and don't like it when someone *sneaks* into
> my computer with such an action. I use and like iTunes, their store is
> the best on the I'Net, but I don't care for Apple's business practices
> as concerns this latest event.

I think it so funny, that when Microsoft has been doing this for years.
That PC owners don't even bat an eyelash yet when an Apple program is
installed everyone gets their knickers in a twist.

I can remember years ago, visiting a fellow in Va Beach. He turned on
one of his work computers for his business. within 10 seconds of booting
up AOL cranked up and started download a complete update that took 45
minutes to complete. I asked about it and he said That happens all the
time with a PC. I said on a Mac I get a screen asking if I want to update.

and as for Safari, Its been updated to use the latestHTML5 web
standards, so its actually better than IE And if FireFox is stuck in
HTML 4 then its has surpassed even FireFox.

I am not a proponent of of Safari I can't stand to use it to me its a
lot slower than FF.

I just think its funny that what what has been standrd operation on PC
(Dos/Windows) since the internet allowed updates over the internet, That
it has been standard fare For updates to take ove the computer and do
automatic updates. Yet when an Apple update emulates Standrad PC
practices that everyone gets upset.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alex K. wrote:
> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>
> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
> just as they do with iTunes.
>
> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>
> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>
> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>
I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
install.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
> Don Nickell wrote:
>> I received the Install notice yesterday and it concerned me that it had
>> already been installed behind the scenes. It bothered me enough to
>> spend time searching for the installation. Personally I agree with
>> everything Mr. Lilly said, and don't like it when someone *sneaks* into
>> my computer with such an action. I use and like iTunes, their store is
>> the best on the I'Net, but I don't care for Apple's business practices
>> as concerns this latest event.
>
> I think it so funny, that when Microsoft has been doing this for years.
> That PC owners don't even bat an eyelash yet when an Apple program is
> installed everyone gets their knickers in a twist.
>
> I can remember years ago, visiting a fellow in Va Beach. He turned on
> one of his work computers for his business. within 10 seconds of booting
> up AOL cranked up and started download a complete update that took 45
> minutes to complete. I asked about it and he said That happens all the
> time with a PC. I said on a Mac I get a screen asking if I want to update.

the Apples update mechanics are just the same as Firefox's
or Thunderbird's. You can tell it to do the updates
automatically or ask you what you want done. Or you can turn
it off completely.

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email
help!!!! Emails to me may become public

Notice: This posting is protected under the Free Speech
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reason, not to the mozilla.org servers, where you may get
banned.

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
> Alex K. wrote:
>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>
>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>
>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>
>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>
>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>
> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
> install.
>

Yeah, but Windows users often do not check what is checked or not.
Apple should not push Safari to users who have not already chosen it.

Besides, Safari isn't that good. It might be of use for iPhone users, in
order to synch, but it should not be pushed to users whoi do not want it.

Lee

On 23-03-2008 12:59 CET, Don Nickell composed this enchanting statement:
> Alex K. wrote:
>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>
>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>
>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>
>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>
>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>
> I received the Install notice yesterday and it concerned me that it
> had already been installed behind the scenes. It bothered me enough
> to spend time searching for the installation. Personally I agree with
> everything Mr. Lilly said, and don't like it when someone *sneaks*
> into my computer with such an action. I use and like iTunes, their
> store is the best on the I'Net, but I don't care for Apple's business
> practices as concerns this latest event.

In Dutch we have a saying: "the (thea) pot blames the kettle for its
black appearance".

At a time long ago, I believe it was in 1993, I wanted to install
Windows for Workgroups 3.1 on my IBM PC, in a free partition on my HD. I
had already installed IBM OS/2 in another partition.

The Windows installer managed to wipe out the competition by
reformatting the partition held by OS/2!

The only way to have both systems installed, was to let Windows
re-allocate a disk partition, in which OS/2 happily installed itself,
next to Windows for Workgroups.

Today, that PC , 8 Mb of RAM and a mighty 80 MB HDD, rests in the attic,
but on occasion it will start up with the choice of running OS/2,
Windows 3.1, or DOS 6.2!

--
Kind regards,
Melchert

(MacOS 10.3.9 / Firefox 2.0, Thunderbird 2.0)

Leonidas Jones wrote:
> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
>> Alex K. wrote:
>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>
>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>
>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>
>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>
>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>
>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>> install.
>>
>
> Yeah, but Windows users often do not check what is checked or not. Apple
> should not push Safari to users who have not already chosen it.
>
> Besides, Safari isn't that good. It might be of use for iPhone users, in
> order to synch, but it should not be pushed to users whoi do not want it.
>
> Lee
Hey lee that is windows user fault.

Mac users have gotten in the habit at looking at anything and everything
that's installed. Maybe if Widows users did there would be so much
malware on PC's . ;-)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:13 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:

> Don Nickell wrote:
>> Alex K. wrote:
>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>
>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>
>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>
>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>
>> I received the Install notice yesterday and it concerned me that it had
>> already been installed behind the scenes. It bothered me enough to
>> spend time searching for the installation. Personally I agree with
>> everything Mr. Lilly said, and don't like it when someone *sneaks* into
>> my computer with such an action. I use and like iTunes, their store is
>> the best on the I'Net, but I don't care for Apple's business practices
>> as concerns this latest event.
>
> I think it so funny, that when Microsoft has been doing this for years.
> That PC owners don't even bat an eyelash yet when an Apple program is
> installed everyone gets their knickers in a twist.
>

Once again, you've mistaken what MS does. Apple is installing a NEW
program using iTunes as the bait! I would venture to say that most
people don't actually read everything an update dialog has, so how many
wound up installing Safari when they thought they were only updating iTunes?


> I can remember years ago, visiting a fellow in Va Beach. He turned on
> one of his work computers for his business. within 10 seconds of booting
> up AOL cranked up and started download a complete update that took 45
> minutes to complete. I asked about it and he said That happens all the
> time with a PC. I said on a Mac I get a screen asking if I want to update.
>

That was COMPLETELY different. AOL had graphics and other crap that it
would update on a system ALREADY using AOL. Not even close to what
Apple is doing with Safari.

> and as for Safari, Its been updated to use the latestHTML5 web
> standards, so its actually better than IE And if FireFox is stuck in
> HTML 4 then its has surpassed even FireFox.
>
> I am not a proponent of of Safari I can't stand to use it to me its a
> lot slower than FF.
>
> I just think its funny that what what has been standrd operation on PC
> (Dos/Windows) since the internet allowed updates over the internet, That
> it has been standard fare For updates to take ove the computer and do
> automatic updates. Yet when an Apple update emulates Standrad PC
> practices that everyone gets upset.
>
>

Updates are one thing. Sneaking in a program under the guise of an
update for a DIFFERENT program is wrong. To me, that's as bad as
installing iTunes and not having the option to NOT install Quicktime.
Oh yeah, that's Apple too...

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:

> Alex K. wrote:
>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>
>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>
>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>
>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>
> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
> install.
>

Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
"select" for Quicktime not to be installed?

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Alex K. wrote:
>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>
>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>
>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>
>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>
>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>> install.
>>
>
> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>
He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
referring to Safari.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Alex K. wrote:
>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>
>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>
>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>
>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>
>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>> install.
>>
>
> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>

Terry, I've always used QT, even on Windows. Is it even possible to
install iTunes without QT? I've never tried.

Lee

The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>
>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>
>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>
>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>> install.
>>>
>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>
> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
> referring to Safari.
>

Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

The date and time was 3/24/2008 5:39 PM, and on a whim, Leonidas Jones
pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>
>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>
>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>
>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>> install.
>>>
>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>
>
> Terry, I've always used QT, even on Windows. Is it even possible to
> install iTunes without QT? I've never tried.
>
> Lee

Prior to iTunes, one could have Quicktime as a stand alone program. But
Apple, in it's utimate wisdom, doesn't allow iTunes to be installed
without Quicktime, and there's no way to choose not to have it
installed. To me, that is force feeding users whether they want it or
not. And the ultimate frustration is that if you choose a different
location to install iTunes rather than the default, Quicktime is
installed into the default location regardless of where iTunes was
installed.

No program should be allowed installation without user confirmation.
Basically Apple has become a malware company of sorts. And using an
iTunes update to sneak in Safari is a cheap shot also. At least with
Windows Updates, a user can deselect any update from installing,
regardless of whether it's critical or not.

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>
>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>> install.
>>>>
>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>
>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>> referring to Safari.
>>
>
> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>

the update is iTunes + QT, or just QT, or Safari. QT is
part of the download/update for iTunes. Whether QT is a
component of iTunes or not is another story. You can't
download just iTunes. It has to be iTunes and QT, or QT by
itself.

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email
help!!!! Emails to me may become public

Notice: This posting is protected under the Free Speech
Laws, which applies everywhere, except for some strange
reason, not to the mozilla.org servers, where you may get
banned.

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

On 3/25/2008 8:53 AM, Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/24/2008 5:39 PM, and on a whim, Leonidas Jones
> pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>> "software
>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>
>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>> install.
>>>>
>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>
>>
>> Terry, I've always used QT, even on Windows. Is it even possible to
>> install iTunes without QT? I've never tried.
>>
>> Lee
>
> Prior to iTunes, one could have Quicktime as a stand alone program. But
> Apple, in it's utimate wisdom, doesn't allow iTunes to be installed
> without Quicktime, and there's no way to choose not to have it
> installed. To me, that is force feeding users whether they want it or
> not. And the ultimate frustration is that if you choose a different
> location to install iTunes rather than the default, Quicktime is
> installed into the default location regardless of where iTunes was
> installed.
>
> No program should be allowed installation without user confirmation.
> Basically Apple has become a malware company of sorts. And using an
> iTunes update to sneak in Safari is a cheap shot also. At least with
> Windows Updates, a user can deselect any update from installing,
> regardless of whether it's critical or not.
>
My biggest problem with itunes was uninstalling it: it simply would not
go away! I finally had to edit the registry to get rid of it.

--
Irwin

Please do not use my email address to make requests for help.
Knowledge Base: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page

The date and time was 3/25/2008 8:56 AM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their "software
>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>> install.
>>>>>
>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>
>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>>> referring to Safari.
>>>
>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>
>
> the update is iTunes + QT, or just QT, or Safari. QT is
> part of the download/update for iTunes. Whether QT is a
> component of iTunes or not is another story. You can't
> download just iTunes. It has to be iTunes and QT, or QT by
> itself.
>

That's what I meant. It should be up to a user to decide whether one
wants Quicktime or not. Apple doesn't give us the option. I only have
iTunes on one workstation for my spouses iPod. I don't use it for
anything else as it's a slow pig of a program. I use Winamp for playing
music and video and it loads in about 1/10 of the time it takes iTunes.

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

The date and time was 3/25/2008 9:48 AM, and on a whim, Irwin Greenwald
pounded out on the keyboard:

> On 3/25/2008 8:53 AM, Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 5:39 PM, and on a whim, Leonidas Jones
>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>> "software
>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>> install.
>>>>>
>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>
>>> Terry, I've always used QT, even on Windows. Is it even possible to
>>> install iTunes without QT? I've never tried.
>>>
>>> Lee
>> Prior to iTunes, one could have Quicktime as a stand alone program. But
>> Apple, in it's utimate wisdom, doesn't allow iTunes to be installed
>> without Quicktime, and there's no way to choose not to have it
>> installed. To me, that is force feeding users whether they want it or
>> not. And the ultimate frustration is that if you choose a different
>> location to install iTunes rather than the default, Quicktime is
>> installed into the default location regardless of where iTunes was
>> installed.
>>
>> No program should be allowed installation without user confirmation.
>> Basically Apple has become a malware company of sorts. And using an
>> iTunes update to sneak in Safari is a cheap shot also. At least with
>> Windows Updates, a user can deselect any update from installing,
>> regardless of whether it's critical or not.
>>
> My biggest problem with itunes was uninstalling it: it simply would not
> go away! I finally had to edit the registry to get rid of it.
>

I wouldn't doubt it. But I had the same issue with WMP11 when I
installed it to use as a Media Server. It wouldn't work, so I
uninstalled it and tried TVersity, which worked beautifully. But now I
still get Windows Update telling me there is updates for WMP11, even
though it's not on this workstation! You would think that uninstalling
an app is rocket science or something.

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>> "software
>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>
>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>> install.
>>>>
>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>
>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>> referring to Safari.
>>
>
> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>
Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.

But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the same
install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you should
(Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the install. IF
you can't that's either the nature of the windows installer, or its bug
in the installer system Apple is using for the PC crowd.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
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------------------------------------------------------------------------