Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>> "software
>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>> install.
>>>>>
>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>
>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>>> referring to Safari.
>>>
>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>
> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>
> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the same
> install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you should
> (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the install. IF
> you can't that's either the nature of the windows installer, or its bug
> in the installer system Apple is using for the PC crowd.
>

its not part of the iTune install package. Its a separate
package all in its own. And its part of the AppleSoftware
Update. If you installed QT separate, then you get this
Update program automatically.

If you have selected, in either iTunes or QT, for it to
automatically update itself, then that is no different than
Firefox or Thunderbird automatically updating itself. The
only difference is with the Apple Update, you will also get
other things you did not bargain for. If you don't want the
update to happen automatically, then turn it off. You can
manually update it just like you can with FF or TB.
Furthermore, when you get the update window, then you select
which updates you want. If you want QT and not the others,
then you have that choice.

Thats the way it is on my winXP. I don't know about Mac's
or others.

--
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help!!!! Emails to me may become public

Notice: This posting is protected under the Free Speech
Laws, which applies everywhere, except for some strange
reason, not to the mozilla.org servers, where you may get
banned.

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:36 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>> "software
>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>> install.
>>>>>
>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>
>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>>> referring to Safari.
>>>
>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>
> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>
> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the same
> install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you should
> (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the install. IF
> you can't that's either the nature of the windows installer, or its bug
> in the installer system Apple is using for the PC crowd.
>

Then why can you uninstall Quicktime separately from iTunes? If it was
"required", it wouldn't offer separate removal I don't believe. But the
point is moot, since the next iTunes update will install Quicktime all
over again. It's wrong to be forced into software someone doesn't want.

Unchecking Safari isn't the point either. It's being notified by "Apple
Software UPDATER" that Safari is available. I don't have Safari on my
workstation, so there is nothing to UPDATE. The Apple installer is
installing a NEW program using the Updater. That's wrong.

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:52 AM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:

> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>>> install.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>
>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>>>> referring to Safari.
>>>>
>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>
>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
>> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>
>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the same
>> install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you should
>> (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the install. IF
>> you can't that's either the nature of the windows installer, or its bug
>> in the installer system Apple is using for the PC crowd.
>>
>
> its not part of the iTune install package. Its a separate
> package all in its own. And its part of the AppleSoftware
> Update. If you installed QT separate, then you get this
> Update program automatically.
>
> If you have selected, in either iTunes or QT, for it to
> automatically update itself, then that is no different than
> Firefox or Thunderbird automatically updating itself. The
> only difference is with the Apple Update, you will also get
> other things you did not bargain for. If you don't want the
> update to happen automatically, then turn it off. You can
> manually update it just like you can with FF or TB.
> Furthermore, when you get the update window, then you select
> which updates you want. If you want QT and not the others,
> then you have that choice.
>
> Thats the way it is on my winXP. I don't know about Mac's
> or others.
>

But Firefox doesn't install TB as an option. That's basically what Apple
is doing.

Quicktime isn't an option if iTunes is installed. It's combined with no
option to leave it out. But you can uninstall it separately from
Add/Remove Programs, until the next iTunes "update".

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:41 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 5:39 PM, and on a whim, Leonidas Jones
>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>> "software
>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>> install.
>>>>>
>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>
>>> Terry, I've always used QT, even on Windows. Is it even possible to
>>> install iTunes without QT? I've never tried.
>>>
>>> Lee
>> Prior to iTunes, one could have Quicktime as a stand alone program. But
>> Apple, in it's utimate wisdom, doesn't allow iTunes to be installed
>> without Quicktime, and there's no way to choose not to have it
>> installed. To me, that is force feeding users whether they want it or
>> not. And the ultimate frustration is that if you choose a different
>> location to install iTunes rather than the default, Quicktime is
>> installed into the default location regardless of where iTunes was
>> installed.
>>
>> No program should be allowed installation without user confirmation.
>> Basically Apple has become a malware company of sorts. And using an
>> iTunes update to sneak in Safari is a cheap shot also. At least with
>> Windows Updates, a user can deselect any update from installing,
>> regardless of whether it's critical or not.
>>
> Well that different behavior than in the past. I've seen PC attached to
> the internet have a mid of their own and update files with no
> intervention. On a Mac if Software up date open your asked at every
> juncture until the physical install has started, whether you want to
> quit or not or decide what application you want to update.
>

Just what is your "past" Phillip? It sounds like the 80's since you
used a PC! Do you possibly think things might have changed a "bit"
since then? And you no longer have any just comparison?

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:36 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real
>>>>>>>> good browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on
>>>>>>>> Windows.
>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin
>>>>>>> with,
>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is
>>>>>> just using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if
>>>>>> it works like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and
>>>>>> it will not install.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>
>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he
>>>> was referring to Safari.
>>>>
>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>
>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
>> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>
>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the
>> same install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you
>> should (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the
>> install. IF you can't that's either the nature of the windows
>> installer, or its bug in the installer system Apple is using for the
>> PC crowd.
>>
>
> Then why can you uninstall Quicktime separately from iTunes? If it was
> "required", it wouldn't offer separate removal I don't believe. But the
> point is moot, since the next iTunes update will install Quicktime all
> over again. It's wrong to be forced into software someone doesn't want.

There is a hidden component of the quicktime engine that's used in the
iTunes player , however; this component is not invoked for anything
other than iTunes. AS for Quicktime yes you can can install or uninstall
as desired.

> Unchecking Safari isn't the point either. It's being notified by "Apple
> Software UPDATER" that Safari is available. I don't have Safari on my
> workstation, so there is nothing to UPDATE. The Apple installer is
> installing a NEW program using the Updater. That's wrong.
>

I wish I knew a Emoticon for consternation or exasperation. That's
because, a PC person can't get over, apple doing what's normal in the PC
world, and PC people take it. Yet if apple does it, its heresy.

With Active-X Windows People have software, good or bad installed
constantly with and without their knowledge and without there input.

If you don't want to install Safari don't! I myself don't like it! And I
am Mac Guy.

The window comes up with two items checked. But what you obviously don't
know is if you uncheck an item before the install process, it won't be
installed. You actually have a choice. Now once you install it you will
receive updates for it but even those you can uncheck.

And as peter in a another post said you can remove it.

You have that unique, privilege, You can uninstall Qt, and not use it
because you can use winamp, windows media player, tons of other players.

We can't even play *all* wma/wmv files because MS has seen to it to
discontinue R&D of Windows media Player for Mac. and Quicktime can only
play non DRM version through use of a Plugin called Flip4Mac. The reason
for this is because of MS on going hatred of Apple and Mac (they want to
keep it use down to 10 or 15% so they can dominate the world) pulled the
plug.

So us Mac People are more or less stuck using Quicktime although its an
extremely good player.

And yet you (collective You), bitch about Apple having Safari on their
installer.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:41 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 5:39 PM, and on a whim, Leonidas
>>> Jones pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real
>>>>>>>> good browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on
>>>>>>>> Windows.
>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin
>>>>>>> with,
>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is
>>>>>> just using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if
>>>>>> it works like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and
>>>>>> it will not install.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>
>>>> Terry, I've always used QT, even on Windows. Is it even possible to
>>>> install iTunes without QT? I've never tried.
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>> Prior to iTunes, one could have Quicktime as a stand alone program.
>>> But Apple, in it's utimate wisdom, doesn't allow iTunes to be
>>> installed without Quicktime, and there's no way to choose not to have
>>> it installed. To me, that is force feeding users whether they want
>>> it or not. And the ultimate frustration is that if you choose a
>>> different location to install iTunes rather than the default,
>>> Quicktime is installed into the default location regardless of where
>>> iTunes was installed.
>>>
>>> No program should be allowed installation without user confirmation.
>>> Basically Apple has become a malware company of sorts. And using an
>>> iTunes update to sneak in Safari is a cheap shot also. At least with
>>> Windows Updates, a user can deselect any update from installing,
>>> regardless of whether it's critical or not.
>>>
>> Well that different behavior than in the past. I've seen PC attached
>> to the internet have a mid of their own and update files with no
>> intervention. On a Mac if Software up date open your asked at every
>> juncture until the physical install has started, whether you want to
>> quit or not or decide what application you want to update.
>>
>
> Just what is your "past" Phillip? It sounds like the 80's since you
> used a PC! Do you possibly think things might have changed a "bit"
> since then? And you no longer have any just comparison?
>

Actually my personal working with PC's lasted up until the 90's However,
I've been to people's house that use machines XP and still see as soon
as computer is turned on computer Hard drive working and some type of
installer going.

The oldest recollection, when not working Henry County Schools system ,
was in Va Beach , visiting a friend that ran TV shop. I had stayed with
them over night and went with him to his service center. immediately
upon turning this one computer on. A warn message came that AOL had
detect out of date components and would update. hereupon the modem was
dialed and his computer stuck 45 minutes where he couldn't do anything
until it was over with. I've seen similar actions with differing
software, and newer computers. The newest system was XP.

Now if they have finally changed that, good.

But Mac has never been that way even in the days of OS9 if you installed
software you had to give permission to do so. There was a difference
then it was either yes or no. With OSX you click on install then before
the install begins you have to give username and password. Then and only
then can you install software. and even after the install begins as long
as your in the process of of downloading the the file, decompressing the
file you can choose to quit. Now once the components are decompresses
and the actual writing of the file begins you can quit because, if you
do that you leave the system in limbo and could actually affect the
operation o of the system.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The date and time was 3/26/2008 6:55 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:36 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real
>>>>>>>>> good browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on
>>>>>>>>> Windows.
>>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin
>>>>>>>> with,
>>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is
>>>>>>> just using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if
>>>>>>> it works like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and
>>>>>>> it will not install.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>>
>>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he
>>>>> was referring to Safari.
>>>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>>
>>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
>>> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>>
>>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the
>>> same install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you
>>> should (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the
>>> install. IF you can't that's either the nature of the windows
>>> installer, or its bug in the installer system Apple is using for the
>>> PC crowd.
>>>
>> Then why can you uninstall Quicktime separately from iTunes? If it was
>> "required", it wouldn't offer separate removal I don't believe. But the
>> point is moot, since the next iTunes update will install Quicktime all
>> over again. It's wrong to be forced into software someone doesn't want.
>
> There is a hidden component of the quicktime engine that's used in the
> iTunes player , however; this component is not invoked for anything
> other than iTunes. AS for Quicktime yes you can can install or uninstall
> as desired.
>

It's not a hidden component. It's DLL libraries that are shared.

>> Unchecking Safari isn't the point either. It's being notified by "Apple
>> Software UPDATER" that Safari is available. I don't have Safari on my
>> workstation, so there is nothing to UPDATE. The Apple installer is
>> installing a NEW program using the Updater. That's wrong.
>>
>
> I wish I knew a Emoticon for consternation or exasperation. That's
> because, a PC person can't get over, apple doing what's normal in the PC
> world, and PC people take it. Yet if apple does it, its heresy.
>

Maybe you didn't read what I stated. Even MS doesn't cause a user to
OPT-OUT of a "recommended program". You have to check the box (OPT-IN)
to cause it to install. The exact opposite of what Apple is doing by
having a user uncheck the box (OPT-OUT). It's NOT normal, what Apple
has done. What if Firefox installed TB by "default"? That is more like
what Apple has done. It has taken advantage of the iTunes user base to
gain market share, mainly because most people won't be looking for
something new. They'll see iTunes+Quicktime and install it, probably
thinking that Safari is also required for "security".


> With Active-X Windows People have software, good or bad installed
> constantly with and without their knowledge and without there input.
>

So are you putting Apple in with those malware writers?

> If you don't want to install Safari don't! I myself don't like it! And I
> am Mac Guy.
>

It's not about me. It's about all the clients and their employees who
use iTunes and knowing that Safari is going to be installed on most of
those machines.

> The window comes up with two items checked. But what you obviously don't
> know is if you uncheck an item before the install process, it won't be
> installed. You actually have a choice. Now once you install it you will
> receive updates for it but even those you can uncheck.
>

That's vague at best. Average users don't know a Safari from a virus.
And even if you do uncheck it, it will be back next time unless you
disable Apple Updater. How many average users even know it's on their
machines?

> And as peter in a another post said you can remove it.
>
> You have that unique, privilege, You can uninstall Qt, and not use it
> because you can use winamp, windows media player, tons of other players.
>
> We can't even play *all* wma/wmv files because MS has seen to it to
> discontinue R&D of Windows media Player for Mac. and Quicktime can only
> play non DRM version through use of a Plugin called Flip4Mac. The reason
> for this is because of MS on going hatred of Apple and Mac (they want to
> keep it use down to 10 or 15% so they can dominate the world) pulled the
> plug.
>

Hey face it Phillip, if it wasn't for MS, Apple would be long gone. I
don't have any DRM protected music. The last thing I would have done
was buy m4p's from Apple.

> So us Mac People are more or less stuck using Quicktime although its an
> extremely good player.
>
> And yet you (collective You), bitch about Apple having Safari on their
> installer.

And I told you why. A company doesn't have a user OPT-OUT on software
that hasn't been installed PRIOR, and use the "Apple Updater". If they
want to do it, they need to have it be a new dialog called "Apple New
Software Installation".

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/26/2008 6:55 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:36 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip
>>>>>>> M. Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real
>>>>>>>>>> good browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance
>>>>>>>>>> on Windows.
>>>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin
>>>>>>>>> with,
>>>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is
>>>>>>>> just using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if
>>>>>>>> it works like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item
>>>>>>>> and it will not install.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can
>>>>>>> you "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he
>>>>>> was referring to Safari.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear
>>>> you music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>>>
>>>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the
>>>> same install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you
>>>> should (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the
>>>> install. IF you can't that's either the nature of the windows
>>>> installer, or its bug in the installer system Apple is using for the
>>>> PC crowd.
>>>>
>>> Then why can you uninstall Quicktime separately from iTunes? If it
>>> was "required", it wouldn't offer separate removal I don't believe.
>>> But the point is moot, since the next iTunes update will install
>>> Quicktime all over again. It's wrong to be forced into software
>>> someone doesn't want.
>>
>> There is a hidden component of the quicktime engine that's used in the
>> iTunes player , however; this component is not invoked for anything
>> other than iTunes. AS for Quicktime yes you can can install or
>> uninstall as desired.
>>
>
> It's not a hidden component. It's DLL libraries that are shared.
>
>>> Unchecking Safari isn't the point either. It's being notified by
>>> "Apple Software UPDATER" that Safari is available. I don't have
>>> Safari on my workstation, so there is nothing to UPDATE. The Apple
>>> installer is installing a NEW program using the Updater. That's wrong.
>>>
>>
>> I wish I knew a Emoticon for consternation or exasperation. That's
>> because, a PC person can't get over, apple doing what's normal in the
>> PC world, and PC people take it. Yet if apple does it, its heresy.
>>
>
> Maybe you didn't read what I stated. Even MS doesn't cause a user to
> OPT-OUT of a "recommended program". You have to check the box (OPT-IN)
> to cause it to install. The exact opposite of what Apple is doing by
> having a user uncheck the box (OPT-OUT). It's NOT normal, what Apple
> has done. What if Firefox installed TB by "default"? That is more like
> what Apple has done. It has taken advantage of the iTunes user base to
> gain market share, mainly because most people won't be looking for
> something new. They'll see iTunes+Quicktime and install it, probably
> thinking that Safari is also required for "security".
>
>
>> With Active-X Windows People have software, good or bad installed
>> constantly with and without their knowledge and without there input.
>>
>
> So are you putting Apple in with those malware writers?
>
>> If you don't want to install Safari don't! I myself don't like it! And
>> I am Mac Guy.
>>
>
> It's not about me. It's about all the clients and their employees who
> use iTunes and knowing that Safari is going to be installed on most of
> those machines.
>
>> The window comes up with two items checked. But what you obviously
>> don't know is if you uncheck an item before the install process, it
>> won't be installed. You actually have a choice. Now once you install
>> it you will receive updates for it but even those you can uncheck.
>>
>
> That's vague at best. Average users don't know a Safari from a virus.
> And even if you do uncheck it, it will be back next time unless you
> disable Apple Updater. How many average users even know it's on their
> machines?
>
>> And as peter in a another post said you can remove it.
>>
>> You have that unique, privilege, You can uninstall Qt, and not use it
>> because you can use winamp, windows media player, tons of other players.
>>
>> We can't even play *all* wma/wmv files because MS has seen to it to
>> discontinue R&D of Windows media Player for Mac. and Quicktime can
>> only play non DRM version through use of a Plugin called Flip4Mac. The
>> reason for this is because of MS on going hatred of Apple and Mac
>> (they want to keep it use down to 10 or 15% so they can dominate the
>> world) pulled the plug.
>>
>
> Hey face it Phillip, if it wasn't for MS, Apple would be long gone. I
> don't have any DRM protected music. The last thing I would have done
> was buy m4p's from Apple.
>
>> So us Mac People are more or less stuck using Quicktime although its
>> an extremely good player.
>>
>> And yet you (collective You), bitch about Apple having Safari on their
>> installer.
>
> And I told you why. A company doesn't have a user OPT-OUT on software
> that hasn't been installed PRIOR, and use the "Apple Updater". If they
> want to do it, they need to have it be a new dialog called "Apple New
> Software Installation".
>
The only way Apple could get iTunes started with the music industry's
Blessing was to use DRM.

I suppose you get your music from the likes of Limewire. And what was
that company on PC that would let you download bootleg copies of music
on MS. I guess that where you get your music.

That's no different than some of the WMA/WMV content is protected by DRM
from Microsoft. Today there is WMA/WMV content That Apple can't play
because of Microsoft's DRM. So Microsoft is not the paragon of virtue
you want it to be.

Its always been OPT-Out on Mac. Mac people have been endowed with the
common sense to to know how to uncheck What they don't want.

Oh and by the way with an arrangement with One of the Music Industry
Company's Apple is offering DRM free Music but it cost $1.00 more. Once
you downloaded it you can do anything you want with it.

AS For Apple being long if not for MS. If it wasn't for MS interference
and out right stealing of Apple Technology (Apple just didn't have the
bucks to fight it in court) Apple would have probably had 50 percent
share of the Market. But you can believe what you want. Its only been in
the last couple of Years that MS own lawyers have made them realize that
if your the only one Company providing something and you drive any
competition out, your a candidate for the Feds Breaking you company up.
Doesn't make any difference if you the the President of the US in your
hip pocket.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The date and time was 3/27/2008 3:32 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/26/2008 6:55 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:36 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip
>>>>>>>> M. Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real
>>>>>>>>>>> good browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance
>>>>>>>>>>> on Windows.
>>>>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin
>>>>>>>>>> with,
>>>>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is
>>>>>>>>> just using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if
>>>>>>>>> it works like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item
>>>>>>>>> and it will not install.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can
>>>>>>>> you "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he
>>>>>>> was referring to Safari.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear
>>>>> you music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the
>>>>> same install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you
>>>>> should (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the
>>>>> install. IF you can't that's either the nature of the windows
>>>>> installer, or its bug in the installer system Apple is using for the
>>>>> PC crowd.
>>>>>
>>>> Then why can you uninstall Quicktime separately from iTunes? If it
>>>> was "required", it wouldn't offer separate removal I don't believe.
>>>> But the point is moot, since the next iTunes update will install
>>>> Quicktime all over again. It's wrong to be forced into software
>>>> someone doesn't want.
>>> There is a hidden component of the quicktime engine that's used in the
>>> iTunes player , however; this component is not invoked for anything
>>> other than iTunes. AS for Quicktime yes you can can install or
>>> uninstall as desired.
>>>
>> It's not a hidden component. It's DLL libraries that are shared.
>>
>>>> Unchecking Safari isn't the point either. It's being notified by
>>>> "Apple Software UPDATER" that Safari is available. I don't have
>>>> Safari on my workstation, so there is nothing to UPDATE. The Apple
>>>> installer is installing a NEW program using the Updater. That's wrong.
>>>>
>>> I wish I knew a Emoticon for consternation or exasperation. That's
>>> because, a PC person can't get over, apple doing what's normal in the
>>> PC world, and PC people take it. Yet if apple does it, its heresy.
>>>
>> Maybe you didn't read what I stated. Even MS doesn't cause a user to
>> OPT-OUT of a "recommended program". You have to check the box (OPT-IN)
>> to cause it to install. The exact opposite of what Apple is doing by
>> having a user uncheck the box (OPT-OUT). It's NOT normal, what Apple
>> has done. What if Firefox installed TB by "default"? That is more like
>> what Apple has done. It has taken advantage of the iTunes user base to
>> gain market share, mainly because most people won't be looking for
>> something new. They'll see iTunes+Quicktime and install it, probably
>> thinking that Safari is also required for "security".
>>
>>
>>> With Active-X Windows People have software, good or bad installed
>>> constantly with and without their knowledge and without there input.
>>>
>> So are you putting Apple in with those malware writers?
>>
>>> If you don't want to install Safari don't! I myself don't like it! And
>>> I am Mac Guy.
>>>
>> It's not about me. It's about all the clients and their employees who
>> use iTunes and knowing that Safari is going to be installed on most of
>> those machines.
>>
>>> The window comes up with two items checked. But what you obviously
>>> don't know is if you uncheck an item before the install process, it
>>> won't be installed. You actually have a choice. Now once you install
>>> it you will receive updates for it but even those you can uncheck.
>>>
>> That's vague at best. Average users don't know a Safari from a virus.
>> And even if you do uncheck it, it will be back next time unless you
>> disable Apple Updater. How many average users even know it's on their
>> machines?
>>
>>> And as peter in a another post said you can remove it.
>>>
>>> You have that unique, privilege, You can uninstall Qt, and not use it
>>> because you can use winamp, windows media player, tons of other players.
>>>
>>> We can't even play *all* wma/wmv files because MS has seen to it to
>>> discontinue R&D of Windows media Player for Mac. and Quicktime can
>>> only play non DRM version through use of a Plugin called Flip4Mac. The
>>> reason for this is because of MS on going hatred of Apple and Mac
>>> (they want to keep it use down to 10 or 15% so they can dominate the
>>> world) pulled the plug.
>>>
>> Hey face it Phillip, if it wasn't for MS, Apple would be long gone. I
>> don't have any DRM protected music. The last thing I would have done
>> was buy m4p's from Apple.
>>
>>> So us Mac People are more or less stuck using Quicktime although its
>>> an extremely good player.
>>>
>>> And yet you (collective You), bitch about Apple having Safari on their
>>> installer.
>> And I told you why. A company doesn't have a user OPT-OUT on software
>> that hasn't been installed PRIOR, and use the "Apple Updater". If they
>> want to do it, they need to have it be a new dialog called "Apple New
>> Software Installation".
>>
> The only way Apple could get iTunes started with the music industry's
> Blessing was to use DRM.
>
> I suppose you get your music from the likes of Limewire. And what was
> that company on PC that would let you download bootleg copies of music
> on MS. I guess that where you get your music.
>

I resent your insinuation. No, I do NOT use Limewire or any other file
sharing program. I have songs on iTunes & Amazon, as I'm a musician,
and I respect the rights of user property.

> That's no different than some of the WMA/WMV content is protected by DRM
> from Microsoft. Today there is WMA/WMV content That Apple can't play
> because of Microsoft's DRM. So Microsoft is not the paragon of virtue
> you want it to be.

We weren't talking about DRM really. But I don't use ANY protected
files. I rip everything to MP3's.

>
> Its always been OPT-Out on Mac. Mac people have been endowed with the
> common sense to to know how to uncheck What they don't want.
>
> Oh and by the way with an arrangement with One of the Music Industry
> Company's Apple is offering DRM free Music but it cost $1.00 more. Once
> you downloaded it you can do anything you want with it.
>
> AS For Apple being long if not for MS. If it wasn't for MS interference
> and out right stealing of Apple Technology (Apple just didn't have the
> bucks to fight it in court) Apple would have probably had 50 percent
> share of the Market. But you can believe what you want. Its only been in
> the last couple of Years that MS own lawyers have made them realize that
> if your the only one Company providing something and you drive any
> competition out, your a candidate for the Feds Breaking you company up.
> Doesn't make any difference if you the the President of the US in your
> hip pocket.
>
>

And you can believe what you want. But I seriously doubt Apple would
have had 50% of the market. As long as their machines are proprietary
to run the OS, that would/will never happen.

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/27/2008 3:32 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.

-------------------------snip-------------------------

> And you can believe what you want. But I seriously doubt Apple would
> have had 50% of the market. As long as their machines are proprietary
> to run the OS, that would/will never happen.
>

WE have always had software That allowed us to run windows. and Unix and
Linux have always had ability to run on Mac.
SoftPC was the first then there was a Company Virtual PC that Microsoft
bought out then shut down That could run XP on a Mac.

And now That they (Apple) use Intel Chips. with the use of several
different software Parallels is one. You can Run Windows on a Mac and it
actually run faster than on a PC.

There is only one software the name starts with MacInThe... that allows
the Mac OS on PC.

So that argument ain't going to hunt. MS is Just a proprietary as Apple
.. More so in fact.

On and my apologies if I insulted you on the comment about using the
DRM. If you didn't get illegal music Great. But because of the problem
on PC's Not Mac's of people downloading illegal music the only way
iTunes could exist, is the DRM. Had not Apple agreed to use DRM, iTunes
would never have gotten off the ground.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailtojones@kimbanet.com
http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9 Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:52 AM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
> the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>>>> install.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>>
>>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>>>>> referring to Safari.
>>>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>>
>>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
>>> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>>
>>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the same
>>> install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you should
>>> (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the install. IF
>>> you can't that's either the nature of the windows installer, or its bug
>>> in the installer system Apple is using for the PC crowd.
>>>
>> its not part of the iTune install package. Its a separate
>> package all in its own. And its part of the AppleSoftware
>> Update. If you installed QT separate, then you get this
>> Update program automatically.
>>
>> If you have selected, in either iTunes or QT, for it to
>> automatically update itself, then that is no different than
>> Firefox or Thunderbird automatically updating itself. The
>> only difference is with the Apple Update, you will also get
>> other things you did not bargain for. If you don't want the
>> update to happen automatically, then turn it off. You can
>> manually update it just like you can with FF or TB.
>> Furthermore, when you get the update window, then you select
>> which updates you want. If you want QT and not the others,
>> then you have that choice.
>>
>> Thats the way it is on my winXP. I don't know about Mac's
>> or others.
>>
>
> But Firefox doesn't install TB as an option. That's basically what Apple
> is doing.
>
> Quicktime isn't an option if iTunes is installed. It's combined with no
> option to leave it out. But you can uninstall it separately from
> Add/Remove Programs, until the next iTunes "update".
>

the thing that pisses me off about installing apple products
is it also installs the Bonjour service without asking me if
I want it: http://www.apple.com/bonjour

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email
help!!!! Emails to me may become public

Notice: This posting is protected under the Free Speech
Laws, which applies everywhere, except for some strange
reason, not to the mozilla.org servers, where you may get
banned.

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

The date and time was 3/28/2008 1:46 PM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:52 AM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
>> the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>>>>> install.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>>>>>> referring to Safari.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
>>>> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>>>
>>>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the same
>>>> install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you should
>>>> (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the install. IF
>>>> you can't that's either the nature of the windows installer, or its bug
>>>> in the installer system Apple is using for the PC crowd.
>>>>
>>> its not part of the iTune install package. Its a separate
>>> package all in its own. And its part of the AppleSoftware
>>> Update. If you installed QT separate, then you get this
>>> Update program automatically.
>>>
>>> If you have selected, in either iTunes or QT, for it to
>>> automatically update itself, then that is no different than
>>> Firefox or Thunderbird automatically updating itself. The
>>> only difference is with the Apple Update, you will also get
>>> other things you did not bargain for. If you don't want the
>>> update to happen automatically, then turn it off. You can
>>> manually update it just like you can with FF or TB.
>>> Furthermore, when you get the update window, then you select
>>> which updates you want. If you want QT and not the others,
>>> then you have that choice.
>>>
>>> Thats the way it is on my winXP. I don't know about Mac's
>>> or others.
>>>
>> But Firefox doesn't install TB as an option. That's basically what Apple
>> is doing.
>>
>> Quicktime isn't an option if iTunes is installed. It's combined with no
>> option to leave it out. But you can uninstall it separately from
>> Add/Remove Programs, until the next iTunes "update".
>>
>
> the thing that pisses me off about installing apple products
> is it also installs the Bonjour service without asking me if
> I want it: http://www.apple.com/bonjour
>

I can imagine. Especially since most Windows users ALREADY have ZCN!

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

The date and time was 3/28/2008 11:18 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/27/2008 3:32 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>
> -------------------------snip-------------------------
>
>> And you can believe what you want. But I seriously doubt Apple would
>> have had 50% of the market. As long as their machines are proprietary
>> to run the OS, that would/will never happen.
>>
>
> WE have always had software That allowed us to run windows. and Unix and
> Linux have always had ability to run on Mac.
> SoftPC was the first then there was a Company Virtual PC that Microsoft
> bought out then shut down That could run XP on a Mac.
>
> And now That they (Apple) use Intel Chips. with the use of several
> different software Parallels is one. You can Run Windows on a Mac and it
> actually run faster than on a PC.

That was yesterday. Today, PC's run it faster. It just took a week or
so for that news to die.

>
> There is only one software the name starts with MacInThe... that allows
> the Mac OS on PC.
>
> So that argument ain't going to hunt. MS is Just a proprietary as Apple
> . More so in fact.

No, Apple requires an APPLE computer to run their OS. Windows can run
on any companies PC that writes for it. Since an Apple computer is
basically a PC computer now days, they should just allow other companies
to build them.

>
> On and my apologies if I insulted you on the comment about using the
> DRM. If you didn't get illegal music Great. But because of the problem
> on PC's Not Mac's of people downloading illegal music the only way
> iTunes could exist, is the DRM. Had not Apple agreed to use DRM, iTunes
> would never have gotten off the ground.
>
>


--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R. wrote:
> The date and time was 3/28/2008 1:46 PM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
> the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:52 AM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
>>> the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>>>>>> install.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>>>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>>>>>>> referring to Safari.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
>>>>> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the same
>>>>> install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you should
>>>>> (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the install. IF
>>>>> you can't that's either the nature of the windows installer, or its bug
>>>>> in the installer system Apple is using for the PC crowd.
>>>>>
>>>> its not part of the iTune install package. Its a separate
>>>> package all in its own. And its part of the AppleSoftware
>>>> Update. If you installed QT separate, then you get this
>>>> Update program automatically.
>>>>
>>>> If you have selected, in either iTunes or QT, for it to
>>>> automatically update itself, then that is no different than
>>>> Firefox or Thunderbird automatically updating itself. The
>>>> only difference is with the Apple Update, you will also get
>>>> other things you did not bargain for. If you don't want the
>>>> update to happen automatically, then turn it off. You can
>>>> manually update it just like you can with FF or TB.
>>>> Furthermore, when you get the update window, then you select
>>>> which updates you want. If you want QT and not the others,
>>>> then you have that choice.
>>>>
>>>> Thats the way it is on my winXP. I don't know about Mac's
>>>> or others.
>>>>
>>> But Firefox doesn't install TB as an option. That's basically what Apple
>>> is doing.
>>>
>>> Quicktime isn't an option if iTunes is installed. It's combined with no
>>> option to leave it out. But you can uninstall it separately from
>>> Add/Remove Programs, until the next iTunes "update".
>>>
>> the thing that pisses me off about installing apple products
>> is it also installs the Bonjour service without asking me if
>> I want it: http://www.apple.com/bonjour
>>
>
> I can imagine. Especially since most Windows users ALREADY have ZCN!
>

Zinc Coated Nuts???? OK, Whatever!

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Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

The date and time was 3/31/2008 1:49 PM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 3/28/2008 1:46 PM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
>> the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>> The date and time was 3/25/2008 11:52 AM, and on a whim, Peter Potamus
>>>> the Purple Hippo pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
>>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>>> The date and time was 3/24/2008 12:37 PM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The date and time was 3/23/2008 8:19 AM, and on a whim, Phillip M.
>>>>>>>>> Jones, C.E.T pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alex K. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> As I recall, isn't Safari a beta on Windows? Its not a real good
>>>>>>>>>>>> browser even on OS X, so I wonder about its performance on Windows.
>>>>>>>>>>> Not only is it out of beta, but they are pushing it via their
>>>>>>>>>>> "software
>>>>>>>>>>> update" mechanism, even if you don't have it installed to begin with,
>>>>>>>>>>> just as they do with iTunes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Here's what John Lilly, the Mozilla CEO, has to say about it:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://john.jubjubs.net/2008/03/21/a...ftware-update/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Follow-up set to mozilla.general
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've written two comments about this mozilla.general. Apple is just
>>>>>>>>>> using MS own way of updating items on a standard PC. And if it works
>>>>>>>>>> like the installer on a Mac you can uncheck the item and it will not
>>>>>>>>>> install.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Get your facts straight Phillip. When you install iTunes, can you
>>>>>>>>> "select" for Quicktime not to be installed?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He wasn't talking about Quicktime. QT is a component of iTunes he was
>>>>>>>> referring to Safari.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't matter. And Quicktime is NOT a component of iTunes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes it is the iTunes play that actually let you click on and hear you
>>>>>> music has a component of Quicktime in it Background.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the original post was about Safari and iTunes showing up in the same
>>>>>> install Package. Safari has nothing to do with iTunes and you should
>>>>>> (Note: I say Should) be able to uncheck Safari before the install. IF
>>>>>> you can't that's either the nature of the windows installer, or its bug
>>>>>> in the installer system Apple is using for the PC crowd.
>>>>>>
>>>>> its not part of the iTune install package. Its a separate
>>>>> package all in its own. And its part of the AppleSoftware
>>>>> Update. If you installed QT separate, then you get this
>>>>> Update program automatically.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have selected, in either iTunes or QT, for it to
>>>>> automatically update itself, then that is no different than
>>>>> Firefox or Thunderbird automatically updating itself. The
>>>>> only difference is with the Apple Update, you will also get
>>>>> other things you did not bargain for. If you don't want the
>>>>> update to happen automatically, then turn it off. You can
>>>>> manually update it just like you can with FF or TB.
>>>>> Furthermore, when you get the update window, then you select
>>>>> which updates you want. If you want QT and not the others,
>>>>> then you have that choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thats the way it is on my winXP. I don't know about Mac's
>>>>> or others.
>>>>>
>>>> But Firefox doesn't install TB as an option. That's basically what Apple
>>>> is doing.
>>>>
>>>> Quicktime isn't an option if iTunes is installed. It's combined with no
>>>> option to leave it out. But you can uninstall it separately from
>>>> Add/Remove Programs, until the next iTunes "update".
>>>>
>>> the thing that pisses me off about installing apple products
>>> is it also installs the Bonjour service without asking me if
>>> I want it: http://www.apple.com/bonjour
>>>
>> I can imagine. Especially since most Windows users ALREADY have ZCN!
>>
>
> Zinc Coated Nuts???? OK, Whatever!
>

Zero Configuration Networking

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