big time censorship happening - Mozilla

This is a discussion on big time censorship happening - Mozilla ; On 12/06/2007 05:47, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Jay Garcia to generate the following:? : > On 11.06.2007 22:31, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote: > > --- Original Message --- > > >> Jay Garcia wrote: ...

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Thread: big time censorship happening

  1. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12/06/2007 05:47, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Jay Garcia to
    generate the following:? :
    > On 11.06.2007 22:31, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >
    > --- Original Message ---
    >
    >
    >> Jay Garcia wrote:
    >>
    >>> However, he wasn't
    >>> speaking of you anyway.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> so, you know exactly what people are saying and to whom they're talking
    >> about.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > In this instance, yes, reg admitted it was him shortly after I replied
    > and that's exactly who I was speaking of.
    >
    >

    *lol* .... I'm even bigger-headed that Peter is :-P

    reg

  2. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12/06/2007 06:46, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Peter Potamus
    the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
    > Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >
    >> Q wrote:
    >>
    >>> In MGdnRPyhP6MSfDbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    >>> "Terry R." wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Q might be in mgmt. also now, by some requests I've seen.
    >>>>
    >>> I don't help manage the server per se, but yeah, about three weeks ago I
    >>> joined the team that watches out for OT posts and other netiquette
    >>> problems.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> so, now there's 4 Gecko SpamMooses: Chris, Nir, Q, and Dave. This list
    >> is growing. I wonder who else is on this list.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > correction: there are now 5. I forgot about Joe in the mtmm group.
    >
    >

    beg to contradict.... Joe ain't no Moose - he's a moderator! hmmm - a
    "Moderate Moose" maybe :-P

    reg

  3. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 11.06.2007 23:42, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > so, now there's 4 Gecko SpamMooses: Chris, Nir, Q, and Dave. This list
    > is growing. I wonder who else is on this list.



    Pretty soon EVERYone will be on the list and the one poor sap that comes
    along that's not on the list will be in BIG trouble ... :-D


    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  4. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12/06/2007 15:01, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Jay Garcia to
    generate the following:? :
    > On 11.06.2007 23:42, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >
    > --- Original Message ---
    >
    >
    >> so, now there's 4 Gecko SpamMooses: Chris, Nir, Q, and Dave. This list
    >> is growing. I wonder who else is on this list.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Pretty soon EVERYone will be on the list and the one poor sap that comes
    > along that's not on the list will be in BIG trouble ... :-D
    >
    >
    >

    may I guess at a name???

    reg

  5. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12.06.2007 08:02, squaredancer wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > may I guess at a name???
    >
    > reg


    Well, can't be you cuz you'll be on the list. 8-)

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  6. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12/06/2007 16:00, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Jay Garcia to
    generate the following:? :
    > On 12.06.2007 08:02, squaredancer wrote:
    >
    > --- Original Message ---
    >
    >
    >> may I guess at a name???
    >>
    >> reg
    >>

    >
    > Well, can't be you cuz you'll be on the list. 8-)
    >
    >

    well! *THAT* certainly deflated my ego!

    reg

  7. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12.06.2007 09:28, squaredancer wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > On 12/06/2007 16:00, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Jay Garcia to
    > generate the following:? :
    >> On 12.06.2007 08:02, squaredancer wrote:
    >>
    >> --- Original Message ---
    >>
    >>
    >>> may I guess at a name???
    >>>
    >>> reg
    >>>

    >>
    >> Well, can't be you cuz you'll be on the list. 8-)
    >>
    >>

    > well! *THAT* certainly deflated my ego!
    >
    > reg


    Well harumphhhh ... We can, in that case, start a "Poor Sap List" and
    you can head it up then .... ;-)


    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  8. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12.06.2007 09:46, squaredancer wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > do I get a 1) in front of my name ('cos of the ego-trip involved) ??
    >
    > reg


    Absolutely!! In fact we can memorialize that list so you'll live forever
    in the Sap Hall of Fame ... :-D

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  9. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12/06/2007 17:38, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Jay Garcia to
    generate the following:? :
    > On 12.06.2007 09:46, squaredancer wrote:
    >
    > --- Original Message ---
    >
    >
    >> do I get a 1) in front of my name ('cos of the ego-trip involved) ??
    >>
    >> reg
    >>

    >
    > Absolutely!! In fact we can memorialize that list so you'll live forever
    > in the Sap Hall of Fame ... :-D
    >
    >

    ..... and I go on the pay-list (for mkbrown32's sake) ?? at least I
    would want "some attention" paid!

    reg

  10. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12.06.2007 10:44, squaredancer wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > .... and I go on the pay-list (for mkbrown32's sake) ?? at least I
    > would want "some attention" paid!
    >
    > reg


    We'll charge admission to the Hall of Fame and split the proceeds.

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  11. Re: big time censorship happening

    In article , squaredancer
    wrote:

    > On 11/06/2007 20:05, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Lester Caine
    > to generate the following:? :
    > > I can't help feeing that we need a little more 'management' to try and
    > > prevent things blowing out of control
    > >

    > these groups *DO* have a management - it's called Chris I and his stooge
    > Nir but, as I mentioned (and quite rightly so, as the "offender" is
    > officially known to be a troll - see Dave Miller's post) they were
    > seriously lacking in their controll function! *IF* they had done what
    > they relentlessly do to other OT-Posters (delete without warning), the
    > offending posts/threads (that Dave Miller cancelled) would have been
    > stopped long ago!


    Actually, they were trying to do their job. The problem is the person
    causing problems was doing so via Google Groups, and they only have
    cancel rights on news.mozilla.org. So they had to forward them all to
    me for me to deal with (hence why I'm even involved to begin with), and
    getting stuff that originated on Google Groups canceled is a little pit
    trickier. A situation which I hope to resolve shortly, but in the
    meantime we're at Giganews' mercy here.

    --
    Dave Miller http://www.justdave.net/
    System Administrator, Mozilla Corporation http://www.mozilla.com/

  12. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 12/06/2007 21:21, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Dave Miller to
    generate the following:? :
    > In article , squaredancer
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >> On 11/06/2007 20:05, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Lester Caine
    >> to generate the following:? :
    >>
    >>> I can't help feeing that we need a little more 'management' to try and
    >>> prevent things blowing out of control
    >>>
    >>>

    >> these groups *DO* have a management - it's called Chris I and his stooge
    >> Nir but, as I mentioned (and quite rightly so, as the "offender" is
    >> officially known to be a troll - see Dave Miller's post) they were
    >> seriously lacking in their controll function! *IF* they had done what
    >> they relentlessly do to other OT-Posters (delete without warning), the
    >> offending posts/threads (that Dave Miller cancelled) would have been
    >> stopped long ago!
    >>

    >
    > Actually, they were trying to do their job. The problem is the person
    > causing problems was doing so via Google Groups, and they only have
    > cancel rights on news.mozilla.org. So they had to forward them all to
    > me for me to deal with (hence why I'm even involved to begin with), and
    > getting stuff that originated on Google Groups canceled is a little pit
    > trickier. A situation which I hope to resolve shortly, but in the
    > meantime we're at Giganews' mercy here.
    >
    >

    oh well - sorry if I "missinterpreted" their efforts but - does that
    mean that *anyone* posting from Google Groups can put god-holy crap here
    and not be "censored" ??
    Sounds rather a strange setup for monitorable NGs (note that MTMM is
    monitored), so it's no wonder that some people are getting their
    lifelines cut and others (presumeably G-groupers) get away with
    all-hell-let-loose!

    reg!



  13. Re: big time censorship happening

    Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

    > The Real Bev wrote:
    >> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>
    >>> The Real Bev wrote:
    >>>> Having been a willing and vociferous participant in a 9-year flamewar
    >>>> that resulted in the creation of a moderated usenet group,


    ....which I eventually supported, BTW...

    >>>> my taste
    >>>> for serious battle has waned, especially in a group designed to help
    >>>> the helpless (like, upon occasion, me).
    >>>
    >>> You claim to be The Real Bev, but what you said sounds more like
    >>> you're Carol Ann Gulley

    >>
    >> OK, I'll bite. Who is Carol Ann Gulley?

    >
    > some one who terrorized the newsgroups and got a lot of them changed
    > from open to moderated:
    > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...22&btnG=Search


    Sounds like a loon. Do I sound like that?

    --
    Cheers, Bev (Happy Linux User #85683, Slackware 11.0)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    "The language of victimization is infinitely extensible." -- Me

  14. Re: big time censorship happening

    Dave Miller wrote:

    > In article , squaredancer
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 11/06/2007 20:05, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Lester Caine
    >> to generate the following:? :
    >> > I can't help feeing that we need a little more 'management' to try and
    >> > prevent things blowing out of control
    >> >

    >> these groups *DO* have a management - it's called Chris I and his stooge
    >> Nir but, as I mentioned (and quite rightly so, as the "offender" is
    >> officially known to be a troll - see Dave Miller's post) they were
    >> seriously lacking in their controll function! *IF* they had done what
    >> they relentlessly do to other OT-Posters (delete without warning), the
    >> offending posts/threads (that Dave Miller cancelled) would have been
    >> stopped long ago!

    >
    > Actually, they were trying to do their job. The problem is the person
    > causing problems was doing so via Google Groups, and they only have cancel
    > rights on news.mozilla.org. So they had to forward them all to me for me
    > to deal with (hence why I'm even involved to begin with), and getting
    > stuff that originated on Google Groups canceled is a little pit trickier.
    > A situation which I hope to resolve shortly, but in the meantime we're at
    > Giganews' mercy here.


    Can you just block posting from Google Gropers?

    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html


  15. OT: Re: big time censorship happening

    squaredancer wrote:
    > On 12/06/2007 06:46, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Peter Potamus
    > the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
    >> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>
    >>> Q wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In MGdnRPyhP6MSfDbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    >>>> "Terry R." wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Q might be in mgmt. also now, by some requests I've seen.
    >>>>>
    >>>> I don't help manage the server per se, but yeah, about three weeks
    >>>> ago I
    >>>> joined the team that watches out for OT posts and other netiquette
    >>>> problems.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> so, now there's 4 Gecko SpamMooses: Chris, Nir, Q, and Dave. This
    >>> list is growing. I wonder who else is on this list.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> correction: there are now 5. I forgot about Joe in the mtmm group.
    >>
    >>

    > beg to contradict.... Joe ain't no Moose - he's a moderator! hmmm - a
    > "Moderate Moose" maybe :-P
    >
    > reg


    So does that make Joe the mtmmmm?!?!

    Daniel

  16. Re: big time censorship happening

    In ,
    squaredancer wrote:

    > On 12/06/2007 21:21, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Dave Miller
    > to generate the following:? :


    > > Actually, they were trying to do their job. The problem is the
    > > person causing problems was doing so via Google Groups, and they
    > > only have cancel rights on news.mozilla.org. So they had to
    > > forward them all to me for me to deal with (hence why I'm even
    > > involved to begin with), and getting stuff that originated on
    > > Google Groups canceled is a little pit trickier. A situation which
    > > I hope to resolve shortly, but in the meantime we're at Giganews'
    > > mercy here.

    >
    > oh well - sorry if I "missinterpreted" their efforts but - does that
    > mean that *anyone* posting from Google Groups can put god-holy crap
    > here and not be "censored" ??


    Given what Dave wrote, I'm not sure what you're asking. If the
    question is whether or not posts from GG can be cancelled, the answer
    is that they can be cancelled. As Dave said, it's a little bit tricker
    to cancel them.

    > Sounds rather a strange setup for monitorable NGs (note that MTMM is
    > monitored), so it's no wonder that some people are getting their
    > lifelines cut and others (presumeably G-groupers) get away with
    > all-hell-let-loose!


    m.t.m is moderated. Its situation isn't comparable to that of the
    support groups.

    --
    Q

  17. Re: big time censorship happening

    Q wrote:
    > In ,
    > squaredancer wrote:
    >
    >> On 12/06/2007 21:21, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Dave Miller
    >> to generate the following:? :

    >
    >> > Actually, they were trying to do their job. The problem is the
    >> > person causing problems was doing so via Google Groups, and they
    >> > only have cancel rights on news.mozilla.org. So they had to
    >> > forward them all to me for me to deal with (hence why I'm even
    >> > involved to begin with), and getting stuff that originated on
    >> > Google Groups canceled is a little pit trickier. A situation which
    >> > I hope to resolve shortly, but in the meantime we're at Giganews'
    >> > mercy here.

    >>
    >> oh well - sorry if I "missinterpreted" their efforts but - does that
    >> mean that *anyone* posting from Google Groups can put god-holy crap
    >> here and not be "censored" ??

    >
    > Given what Dave wrote, I'm not sure what you're asking. If the
    > question is whether or not posts from GG can be cancelled, the answer
    > is that they can be cancelled. As Dave said, it's a little bit tricker
    > to cancel them.
    >
    >> Sounds rather a strange setup for monitorable NGs (note that MTMM is
    >> monitored), so it's no wonder that some people are getting their
    >> lifelines cut and others (presumeably G-groupers) get away with
    >> all-hell-let-loose!

    >
    > m.t.m is moderated. Its situation isn't comparable to that of the
    > support groups.


    To the casual observer it seems life was much simpler when the the
    servers were under the control of the $PRODUCT Champions.

    Has anyone considered revisiting the decision to have Google host these
    groups?

    Rinaldi
    --
    Real Users are afraid they'll break the machine -- but they're never
    afraid to break your face.



  18. Re: big time censorship happening

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > Dave Miller wrote:
    >
    >> In article , squaredancer
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 11/06/2007 20:05, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Lester Caine
    >>> to generate the following:? :
    >>>> I can't help feeing that we need a little more 'management' to try and
    >>>> prevent things blowing out of control
    >>>>
    >>> these groups *DO* have a management - it's called Chris I and his stooge
    >>> Nir but, as I mentioned (and quite rightly so, as the "offender" is
    >>> officially known to be a troll - see Dave Miller's post) they were
    >>> seriously lacking in their controll function! *IF* they had done what
    >>> they relentlessly do to other OT-Posters (delete without warning), the
    >>> offending posts/threads (that Dave Miller cancelled) would have been
    >>> stopped long ago!

    >> Actually, they were trying to do their job. The problem is the person
    >> causing problems was doing so via Google Groups, and they only have cancel
    >> rights on news.mozilla.org. So they had to forward them all to me for me
    >> to deal with (hence why I'm even involved to begin with), and getting
    >> stuff that originated on Google Groups canceled is a little pit trickier.
    >> A situation which I hope to resolve shortly, but in the meantime we're at
    >> Giganews' mercy here.

    >
    > Can you just block posting from Google Gropers?
    >


    I wouldn't think of it as a good idea because GGs are widely used and
    besides it would force people to either subscribe to a mailing list or
    download/set up a news reader.

    Looking at http://www.mozilla.org/community/developer-forums.html the
    first thing you see is a GG search box, which is not bad, but I think it
    would be a nice move to suggest downloading Thunderbird in that same
    area too. Not that everyone will switch to TB, but maybe it will tick
    the curiosity of a few . A simple tutorial on how to subscribe to the
    newsgroups wouldn't be bad either. Just something like how to follow the
    create account wizard steps.

  19. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 13.06.2007 02:34, Rinaldi J. Montessi wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > Q wrote:
    >> In ,
    >> squaredancer wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 12/06/2007 21:21, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Dave Miller
    >>> to generate the following:? :

    >>
    >>> > Actually, they were trying to do their job. The problem is the
    >>> > person causing problems was doing so via Google Groups, and they
    >>> > only have cancel rights on news.mozilla.org. So they had to
    >>> > forward them all to me for me to deal with (hence why I'm even
    >>> > involved to begin with), and getting stuff that originated on
    >>> > Google Groups canceled is a little pit trickier. A situation which
    >>> > I hope to resolve shortly, but in the meantime we're at Giganews'
    >>> > mercy here.
    >>>
    >>> oh well - sorry if I "missinterpreted" their efforts but - does that
    >>> mean that *anyone* posting from Google Groups can put god-holy crap
    >>> here and not be "censored" ??

    >>
    >> Given what Dave wrote, I'm not sure what you're asking. If the
    >> question is whether or not posts from GG can be cancelled, the answer
    >> is that they can be cancelled. As Dave said, it's a little bit tricker
    >> to cancel them.
    >>
    >>> Sounds rather a strange setup for monitorable NGs (note that MTMM is
    >>> monitored), so it's no wonder that some people are getting their
    >>> lifelines cut and others (presumeably G-groupers) get away with
    >>> all-hell-let-loose!

    >>
    >> m.t.m is moderated. Its situation isn't comparable to that of the
    >> support groups.

    >
    > To the casual observer it seems life was much simpler when the the
    > servers were under the control of the $PRODUCT Champions.
    >
    > Has anyone considered revisiting the decision to have Google host these
    > groups?
    >
    > Rinaldi


    Actually the "Champs" were never intended to be in *control* over this
    server, just provide support - as a recognized group. Although ChrisI
    has taken the moderator position, that has nothing to do with being a
    "Moz Champ".

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  20. Re: big time censorship happening

    Jay Garcia wrote:
    > On 13.06.2007 02:34, Rinaldi J. Montessi wrote:
    >
    > --- Original Message ---
    >
    >> Q wrote:
    >>> In ,
    >>> squaredancer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On 12/06/2007 21:21, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Dave Miller
    >>>> to generate the following:? :
    >>>
    >>>> > Actually, they were trying to do their job. The problem is the
    >>>> > person causing problems was doing so via Google Groups, and they
    >>>> > only have cancel rights on news.mozilla.org. So they had to
    >>>> > forward them all to me for me to deal with (hence why I'm even
    >>>> > involved to begin with), and getting stuff that originated on
    >>>> > Google Groups canceled is a little pit trickier. A situation which
    >>>> > I hope to resolve shortly, but in the meantime we're at Giganews'
    >>>> > mercy here.
    >>>>
    >>>> oh well - sorry if I "missinterpreted" their efforts but - does that
    >>>> mean that *anyone* posting from Google Groups can put god-holy crap
    >>>> here and not be "censored" ??
    >>>
    >>> Given what Dave wrote, I'm not sure what you're asking. If the
    >>> question is whether or not posts from GG can be cancelled, the answer
    >>> is that they can be cancelled. As Dave said, it's a little bit tricker
    >>> to cancel them.
    >>>
    >>>> Sounds rather a strange setup for monitorable NGs (note that MTMM is
    >>>> monitored), so it's no wonder that some people are getting their
    >>>> lifelines cut and others (presumeably G-groupers) get away with
    >>>> all-hell-let-loose!
    >>>
    >>> m.t.m is moderated. Its situation isn't comparable to that of the
    >>> support groups.

    >>
    >> To the casual observer it seems life was much simpler when the the
    >> servers were under the control of the $PRODUCT Champions.
    >>
    >> Has anyone considered revisiting the decision to have Google host these
    >> groups?
    >>
    >> Rinaldi

    >
    > Actually the "Champs" were never intended to be in *control* over this
    > server, just provide support - as a recognized group. Although ChrisI
    > has taken the moderator position, that has nothing to do with being a
    > "Moz Champ".


    I probably could have phrased that better. I was thinking of the
    secnews.netscape.com servers and making the current setup similar. Not
    necessarily snews:// (why not?), but without a third party (Google)
    involved.

    To put a finer point on it; have Mozilla.org host its own newsgroups.

    --
    Johnson's First Law:
    When any mechanical contrivance fails, it will do so at the
    most inconvenient possible time.



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