big time censorship happening - Mozilla

This is a discussion on big time censorship happening - Mozilla ; Dave Miller wrote: > In article , Peter > Potamus the Purple Hippo > wrote: > >> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote: >>> Dave Miller wrote: >>>> That was me. The thread was started by someone already under the ...

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Thread: big time censorship happening

  1. Re: big time censorship happening

    Dave Miller wrote:
    > In article , Peter
    > Potamus the Purple Hippo
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>> Dave Miller wrote:
    >>>> That was me. The thread was started by someone already under the
    >>>> cancellation policy for trolling, and since there was no meaningful
    >>>> content, I deleted the entire thread. People replying to trolls only
    >>>> encourage them.
    >>>>
    >>>> The content of that thread better belonged here in this newsgroup
    >>>> (which is where it's now happening).
    >>> Then my question to you Dave is: was everyone contacted regarding their
    >>> posting being removed? This is in accordance with the Cancellation
    >>> Policy as set forth here:
    >>> http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html.

    >
    > No, they weren't, for which I apologize. There's other folks usually
    > taking care of this stuff, and I only wind up involved when there's
    > major problems and someone calls for help. I just came in trying to do
    > damage control, and that thread was already entirely out of hand when I
    > found it. The people replying to the troll were just as off-topic as
    > the troll, but yes, in hindsight, they should have been notified.
    >
    >> furthermore, the entire thread was/is not removed. You removed just
    >> about everyone elses postings except the one making the complaint.

    >
    > Those will be gone, too, eventually. The stuff that didn't originate
    > on news.mozilla.org takes longer to process, and those apparently
    > haven't gone through yet (but they're in the queue).


    I've been having some difficulty following this, as I presume much of what is
    being talked about happened on the firefox list? and since I don't frequent
    THAT list I'm only seeing what has been bounced to the general list.

    *I* am uncertain exactly WHO is/was being accused of being a troll, so perhaps
    messages from those who are moderating to the list may be useful to control
    some of this rather than many repeated messages saying 'TROLL' which do not
    seem to relate to anything in particular.

    At least on these list we do seem to avoid the totally off topic
    political/religious crap that wrecks some of the news groups, but the current
    activity seems to be missing something as it does not seem to actually be
    aimed at a particular problem because some of use don't see the offending traffic?

    --
    Lester Caine - G8HFL
    -----------------------------
    Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
    L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
    MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/
    Firebird Foundation Inc. - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

  2. Re: big time censorship happening

    Lester Caine wrote:
    > I've been having some difficulty following this, as I presume much of
    > what is being talked about happened on the firefox list? and since I
    > don't frequent THAT list I'm only seeing what has been bounced to the
    > general list.
    >
    > *I* am uncertain exactly WHO is/was being accused of being a troll, so
    > perhaps messages from those who are moderating to the list may be useful
    > to control some of this rather than many repeated messages saying
    > 'TROLL' which do not seem to relate to anything in particular.
    >
    > At least on these list we do seem to avoid the totally off topic
    > political/religious crap that wrecks some of the news groups, but the
    > current activity seems to be missing something as it does not seem to
    > actually be aimed at a particular problem because some of use don't see
    > the offending traffic?
    >


    the problem is with a poster calling himself mkbrown32. He's claiming
    that his messages are being deleted. And I proved to him, that all his
    messages are coming through, except for one that was deleted. The
    problem is he would post something in the FF newsgroup. Someone else
    would come along, make a reply, but put a follow up to the
    mozilla.general newsgroup. This is the newsgroup for all off topic
    discussions. Sometimes that poster would mention about the follow up
    and other times they would not. Now when mkbrown32 replied, he's looking
    in the FF newsgroup for his message, and can't find it. So, thats when
    he's stating his messages are being removed. But its not. All he has to
    do is look in the general newsgroup and he'll find his response. But
    the problem is he's using google groups, which isn't informing him of
    the follow up.

    --
    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. And only
    click on the Reply button, not the Reply All one. Thanks!

    Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
    http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

  3. Re: big time censorship happening

    Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    > the problem is with a poster calling himself mkbrown32. He's claiming


    And the posts on FF were causing a problem? As the stuff here while not
    particularly well written just seemed to be someone who WAS having trouble
    following the discussion and who was not very patient in listening to the
    replies - rather than a 'TROLL' - Use of that I think causes more problem than
    the person who is being accused

    I can't help feeing that we need a little more 'management' to try and prevent
    things blowing out of control

    --
    Lester Caine - G8HFL
    -----------------------------
    Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
    L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
    MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/
    Firebird Foundation Inc. - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

  4. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 6/11/2007 5:53 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:

    > Just an FYI and IMHO ... If I choose to participate in a known "troll
    > thread", and I have here and the entire thread was cancelled by the
    > admin or his duly authorized agents, I in no way would be offended by
    > that action without being notified in advance. "Lay down with dogs and
    > you get up with fleas", you takes yer chances ...
    >
    > Cheers
    >


    Well said, Jay! I heartily agree. It gets tiresome hearing from the
    legal beavers about how this doesn't conform to the policy guidelines,
    especially when one of them is the worst OT offender on this server.

    --
    Irwin

    Please do not use my email address to make requests for help.

    Knowledge Base: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page

  5. Re: big time censorship happening

    Irwin Greenwald wrote:
    > On 6/11/2007 5:53 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
    >
    >> Just an FYI and IMHO ... If I choose to participate in a known "troll
    >> thread", and I have here and the entire thread was cancelled by the
    >> admin or his duly authorized agents, I in no way would be offended by
    >> that action without being notified in advance. "Lay down with dogs and
    >> you get up with fleas", you takes yer chances ...
    >>
    >> Cheers
    >>

    >
    > Well said, Jay! I heartily agree. It gets tiresome hearing from the
    > legal beavers about how this doesn't conform to the policy guidelines,
    > especially when one of them is the worst OT offender on this server.
    >


    who are you referring to? Me!? I am not "the worst OT offender on this
    server." Ever since Gerv made the announcement some months ago, my OT
    has dropped considerably. So, back up on who you're talking about!

    --
    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. And only
    click on the Reply button, not the Reply All one. Thanks!

    Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
    http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

  6. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 11/06/2007 21:23, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Peter Potamus
    the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
    > Irwin Greenwald wrote:
    >
    >> On 6/11/2007 5:53 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Just an FYI and IMHO ... If I choose to participate in a known "troll
    >>> thread", and I have here and the entire thread was cancelled by the
    >>> admin or his duly authorized agents, I in no way would be offended by
    >>> that action without being notified in advance. "Lay down with dogs and
    >>> you get up with fleas", you takes yer chances ...
    >>>
    >>> Cheers
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Well said, Jay! I heartily agree. It gets tiresome hearing from the
    >> legal beavers about how this doesn't conform to the policy guidelines,
    >> especially when one of them is the worst OT offender on this server.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > who are you referring to? Me!? I am not "the worst OT offender on this
    > server." Ever since Gerv made the announcement some months ago, my OT
    > has dropped considerably. So, back up on who you're talking about!
    >
    >

    me, of course! Who else, since even The Real Bev has slmost stopped posting!

    Anyways - it would have been more "propper" to have closed the thread,
    but left a post saying "why" it had been cancelled! Should be possible
    to do that?

    reg

  7. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 11/06/2007 20:05, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Lester Caine
    to generate the following:? :
    > Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >
    >> the problem is with a poster calling himself mkbrown32. He's claiming
    >>

    >
    > And the posts on FF were causing a problem? As the stuff here while not
    > particularly well written just seemed to be someone who WAS having trouble
    > following the discussion and who was not very patient in listening to the
    > replies - rather than a 'TROLL' - Use of that I think causes more problem than
    > the person who is being accused
    >
    > I can't help feeing that we need a little more 'management' to try and prevent
    > things blowing out of control
    >
    >

    these groups *DO* have a management - it's called Chris I and his stooge
    Nir but, as I mentioned (and quite rightly so, as the "offender" is
    officially known to be a troll - see Dave Miller's post) they were
    seriously lacking in their controll function! *IF* they had done what
    they relentlessly do to other OT-Posters (delete without warning), the
    offending posts/threads (that Dave Miller cancelled) would have been
    stopped long ago!

    reg



  8. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 6/11/2007 3:17 PM On a whim, squaredancer pounded out on the keyboard

    > On 11/06/2007 20:05, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Lester Caine
    > to generate the following:? :
    >> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >>
    >>> the problem is with a poster calling himself mkbrown32. He's claiming
    >>>

    >> And the posts on FF were causing a problem? As the stuff here while not
    >> particularly well written just seemed to be someone who WAS having trouble
    >> following the discussion and who was not very patient in listening to the
    >> replies - rather than a 'TROLL' - Use of that I think causes more problem than
    >> the person who is being accused
    >>
    >> I can't help feeing that we need a little more 'management' to try and prevent
    >> things blowing out of control
    >>
    >>

    > these groups *DO* have a management - it's called Chris I and his stooge
    > Nir but, as I mentioned (and quite rightly so, as the "offender" is
    > officially known to be a troll - see Dave Miller's post) they were
    > seriously lacking in their controll function! *IF* they had done what
    > they relentlessly do to other OT-Posters (delete without warning), the
    > offending posts/threads (that Dave Miller cancelled) would have been
    > stopped long ago!
    >
    > reg
    >
    >


    Q might be in mgmt. also now, by some requests I've seen.

    --
    Terry R.
    Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
    Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

  9. Re: big time censorship happening

    Lester Caine wrote in
    news:EL-dnS8dyuIvE_DbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@mozilla.org:

    > Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >> the problem is with a poster calling himself mkbrown32. He's
    >> claiming

    >
    > And the posts on FF were causing a problem? As the stuff here
    > while not particularly well written just seemed to be someone
    > who WAS having trouble following the discussion and who was
    > not very patient in listening to the replies


    He was actively ignoring the replies, and refusing to try any
    solution to his problem. He kept asking people if they were
    Mozilla employees, or accusing people of being Mozilla employess
    who refused to admit that they were.

    --
    }:-) Christopher Jahn
    {:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
    http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com/
    Do not merely believe in miracles, rely on them.

  10. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 11.06.2007 11:38, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > you may not, but others would. This type of removal is not part of the
    > Etiquette or Cancellation pages. If this type of removal is going to
    > part of the cancellation policy, them something should be written to
    > reflect this.


    I understand, fully. However, my point was that if you're tickling the
    troll and the thread is cancelled without notification then so be it,
    all etiquette policies are no longer valid, IMHO of course. If the troll
    thread is cancelled just for the sake of cancelling it because the troll
    posts there then that's another situation altogether. The "call" isn't
    going to sit well with some users regardless.

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  11. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 11.06.2007 14:23, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    >> Well said, Jay! I heartily agree. It gets tiresome hearing from the
    >> legal beavers about how this doesn't conform to the policy guidelines,
    >> especially when one of them is the worst OT offender on this server.
    >>

    >
    > who are you referring to? Me!? I am not "the worst OT offender on this
    > server." Ever since Gerv made the announcement some months ago, my OT
    > has dropped considerably. So, back up on who you're talking about!
    >


    I can't help but relay an old saying from my Grandfather, "first chicken
    to cackle is the one that layed the egg!" :-) However, he wasn't
    speaking of you anyway.

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  12. Re: big time censorship happening

    squaredancer wrote:

    > On 11/06/2007 21:23, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused Peter Potamus
    > the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
    >> Irwin Greenwald wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 6/11/2007 5:53 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Just an FYI and IMHO ... If I choose to participate in a known "troll
    >>>> thread", and I have here and the entire thread was cancelled by the
    >>>> admin or his duly authorized agents, I in no way would be offended by
    >>>> that action without being notified in advance. "Lay down with dogs and
    >>>> you get up with fleas", you takes yer chances ...
    >>>>
    >>> Well said, Jay! I heartily agree. It gets tiresome hearing from the
    >>> legal beavers about how this doesn't conform to the policy guidelines,
    >>> especially when one of them is the worst OT offender on this server.

    >>
    >> who are you referring to? Me!? I am not "the worst OT offender on this
    >> server." Ever since Gerv made the announcement some months ago, my OT
    >> has dropped considerably. So, back up on who you're talking about!
    >>

    > me, of course! Who else, since even The Real Bev has slmost stopped posting!


    I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was missed!

    Having been a willing and vociferous participant in a 9-year flamewar that
    resulted in the creation of a moderated usenet group, my taste for serious
    battle has waned, especially in a group designed to help the helpless (like,
    upon occasion, me).

    Moreover, I lost the point of this thread a LONG time back. Freedom of the
    press means you have to own a press so I don't look with all that much favor
    on people who insist on ranting about "censorship" when they're really just
    being dumped on for being rude. BTW, who are we talking about? I missed a
    lot of back-and-forth ranting -- deliberately.

    Moreover, I am not offended by off-topicality. We're humans and while we
    may not choose to interact with one another in person or in private email,
    we all clearly enjoy public chatting (no, not real-time chat-room chatting!)
    on interesting subjects not necessarily contained within the guidelines of
    the group at hand.

    > Anyways - it would have been more "propper" to have closed the thread,
    > but left a post saying "why" it had been cancelled! Should be possible
    > to do that?


    Carry on!

    --
    Cheers, Bev (Happy Linux User #85683, Slackware 11.0)
    *******************************************
    "I've learned that you can keep puking long
    after you think you're finished." -- SL

  13. Re: big time censorship happening

    The Real Bev wrote:
    > Having been a willing and vociferous participant in a 9-year flamewar
    > that resulted in the creation of a moderated usenet group, my taste for
    > serious battle has waned, especially in a group designed to help the
    > helpless (like, upon occasion, me).


    You claim to be The Real Bev, but what you said sounds more like you're
    Carol Ann Gulley

    --
    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. And only
    click on the Reply button, not the Reply All one. Thanks!

    Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
    http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

  14. Re: big time censorship happening

    Jay Garcia wrote:
    > However, he wasn't
    > speaking of you anyway.
    >


    so, you know exactly what people are saying and to whom they're talking
    about.

    --
    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. And only
    click on the Reply button, not the Reply All one. Thanks!

    Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
    http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

  15. Re: big time censorship happening

    On 11.06.2007 22:31, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

    --- Original Message ---

    > Jay Garcia wrote:
    >> However, he wasn't
    >> speaking of you anyway.
    >>

    >
    > so, you know exactly what people are saying and to whom they're talking
    > about.
    >


    In this instance, yes, reg admitted it was him shortly after I replied
    and that's exactly who I was speaking of.

    --
    Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
    UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

  16. Re: big time censorship happening

    In MGdnRPyhP6MSfDbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    "Terry R." wrote:

    > Q might be in mgmt. also now, by some requests I've seen.


    I don't help manage the server per se, but yeah, about three weeks ago I
    joined the team that watches out for OT posts and other netiquette
    problems.

    --
    Q

  17. Re: big time censorship happening

    Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

    > The Real Bev wrote:
    >> Having been a willing and vociferous participant in a 9-year flamewar
    >> that resulted in the creation of a moderated usenet group, my taste for
    >> serious battle has waned, especially in a group designed to help the
    >> helpless (like, upon occasion, me).

    >
    > You claim to be The Real Bev, but what you said sounds more like you're
    > Carol Ann Gulley


    OK, I'll bite. Who is Carol Ann Gulley?

    --
    Cheers, Bev (Happy Linux User #85683, Slackware 11.0)
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Don't you just KNOW that there is more than one
    Sierra Club member who is absolutely sure that the
    dinosaurs died out because of something humans did?

  18. Re: big time censorship happening

    The Real Bev wrote:
    > Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    >
    >> The Real Bev wrote:
    >>> Having been a willing and vociferous participant in a 9-year flamewar
    >>> that resulted in the creation of a moderated usenet group, my taste
    >>> for serious battle has waned, especially in a group designed to help
    >>> the helpless (like, upon occasion, me).

    >>
    >> You claim to be The Real Bev, but what you said sounds more like
    >> you're Carol Ann Gulley

    >
    > OK, I'll bite. Who is Carol Ann Gulley?
    >


    some one who terrorized the newsgroups and got a lot of them changed
    from open to moderated:
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...22&btnG=Search

    --
    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. And only
    click on the Reply button, not the Reply All one. Thanks!

    Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
    http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

  19. Re: big time censorship happening

    Q wrote:
    > In MGdnRPyhP6MSfDbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    > "Terry R." wrote:
    >
    >> Q might be in mgmt. also now, by some requests I've seen.

    >
    > I don't help manage the server per se, but yeah, about three weeks ago I
    > joined the team that watches out for OT posts and other netiquette
    > problems.
    >


    so, now there's 4 Gecko SpamMooses: Chris, Nir, Q, and Dave. This list
    is growing. I wonder who else is on this list.

    --
    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. And only
    click on the Reply button, not the Reply All one. Thanks!

    Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
    http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

  20. Re: big time censorship happening

    Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
    > Q wrote:
    >> In MGdnRPyhP6MSfDbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    >> "Terry R." wrote:
    >>
    >>> Q might be in mgmt. also now, by some requests I've seen.

    >>
    >> I don't help manage the server per se, but yeah, about three weeks ago I
    >> joined the team that watches out for OT posts and other netiquette
    >> problems.
    >>

    >
    > so, now there's 4 Gecko SpamMooses: Chris, Nir, Q, and Dave. This list
    > is growing. I wonder who else is on this list.
    >


    correction: there are now 5. I forgot about Joe in the mtmm group.

    --
    Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup only. And only
    click on the Reply button, not the Reply All one. Thanks!

    Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
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