On 3/26/2006 11:24 PM, Sweetums wrote:
> Remember "rn" and "trn"? I think they had a "kill file" feature, oh,
> 20+ years ago.

and others of course - tin for example.


> mozilla's mail/news client STILL doesn't have it.
> I'm offering a bribe to get this situation fixed.
>
> I've been using and Netscape/mozilla/Seamonkey software for 12 years
> now. I switched from trn to Netscape Navigator for news reading in
> 1994. Right away I noticed the absense of a kill file feature, a single
> keystroke "plonk" function that would put the email address of the
> currently read posting's author into a kill file (or in Navigator's
> case, to enter a filter to mark all messages from the email address of
> the current message's author as read without ever reading them.
>
> The crucial part of that feature is the single-keystroke aspect.
> Today, "killing" an author's email address involves a whole bunch of
> clicks and moving of the mouse, far more work than trn's "k" key.
> Here are the Seamonkey steps.
>
> Move mouse to From line,
> right click
> move mouse to "Create Filter From..."
> left click
> move mouse to down arrow by "Delete Message"
> left click down arrot
> move mouse to "mark as read"
> left click
> move mouse to "OK"
> left click (See yet another dialog appear)
> move mouse to "close window" button ("X")
> left click
>
> It ought to involve only one step: press a single key, e.g. "k".
> No dialogs, no games of "Mother, May I?". One key. boom. dead meat.
> No more annoying postings from .
>
> 9.5 years ago, I joined Netscape as a developer (still work on it
> and its descendents to this day). After about a month, I went and
> talked to the manager/directory of the mailnews client, and asked why
> the mailnews client should lack this common feature of other news
> readers. He told me the feature was too uncommon, and most users
> couldn't understand it and wouldn't use it. I think the real reason
> what that HE couldn't understand it and wouldn't use it.

So ... the logic is avoid a set of useful 'news tools' because mail users can't
hack it? If that's the case then perhaps the news reader should be removed from
the product.

To be serious, perhaps the argument is true for most *mail* users (population 1).
But isn't the population of news users (population #2) likely to be
significantly different from pop #1 in terms of objectives, average skills, etc.
I would think so. (perhaps the comments and votes in the bugs noted below provide
some indication)

This argument also totally ignores the fact that (excluding the matter of spam)
compared to the mail one gets in a typical day:

a) the percentage of 'interesting' messages in a newsgroup will be significantly
less, either because of the subject or the sender

b) many news groups have a much higher volume (some unmanageable without good
tools), such that *current* mail tools are insufficient (or too complicated) to
make the task of reading news both efficient and pleasant.


> So, for over 10 years now, The netscape/mozilla/seamonkey mail/news
> readers have lacked this most basic news reader feature.
>
> After 10 years of this mediocrity, can we PLEASE finally have a kill
> key ? I'm willing to PAY to get this feature added. I'm thinking maybe
> $500-$1000 USD, tax free. lowest bidder, and all that.

mediocrity indeed.

some bugs on the subject that may be worth a vote or constructive comment ...

Ability to add user to 'killfile' with a single click
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10097

Filter by example (create a filter based on a message you're viewing)
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11036

Filter news based on any headers
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16913

"add to Killfile" button
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=257505

[might want to mention your offer in a bug]

sweetums,
I couldn't reach you.
you still interested?

Sweetums wrote:

>
> So, for over 10 years now, The netscape/mozilla/seamonkey mail/news
> readers have lacked this most basic news reader feature.
>
> After 10 years of this mediocrity, can we PLEASE finally have a kill
> key ? I'm willing to PAY to get this feature added. I'm thinking maybe
> $500-$1000 USD, tax free. lowest bidder, and all that.
>
> It has to become part of Seamonkey, not of some extension du jour.
> Would be nice to be a "core" feature so that TBird had it too (not
> that I use TBird, but let's spread the wealth).
>
============

Man, I'm broke as a church mouse, but I'll throw a couple of bucks into
the pot to make this happen.

Folks, we need a killfile, plain and simple.

Clothahump wrote:
> Sweetums wrote:
>
>>
>> So, for over 10 years now, The netscape/mozilla/seamonkey mail/news
>> readers have lacked this most basic news reader feature.
>>
>> After 10 years of this mediocrity, can we PLEASE finally have a kill
>> key ? I'm willing to PAY to get this feature added. I'm thinking maybe
>> $500-$1000 USD, tax free. lowest bidder, and all that.
>>
>> It has to become part of Seamonkey, not of some extension du jour.
>> Would be nice to be a "core" feature so that TBird had it too (not
>> that I use TBird, but let's spread the wealth).
>>
> ============
>
> Man, I'm broke as a church mouse, but I'll throw a couple of bucks into
> the pot to make this happen.
>
> Folks, we need a killfile, plain and simple.

What exactly do you need beyond message filters?

Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Clothahump wrote:
>> Sweetums wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> So, for over 10 years now, The netscape/mozilla/seamonkey mail/news
>>> readers have lacked this most basic news reader feature.
>>>
>>> After 10 years of this mediocrity, can we PLEASE finally have a kill
>>> key ? I'm willing to PAY to get this feature added. I'm thinking maybe
>>> $500-$1000 USD, tax free. lowest bidder, and all that.
>>>
>>> It has to become part of Seamonkey, not of some extension du jour.
>>> Would be nice to be a "core" feature so that TBird had it too (not
>>> that I use TBird, but let's spread the wealth).
>>>
>> ============
>>
>> Man, I'm broke as a church mouse, but I'll throw a couple of bucks into
>> the pot to make this happen.
>>
>> Folks, we need a killfile, plain and simple.
>
> What exactly do you need beyond message filters?

From his statement above, he wants a KEY that will kill. And he will
pay for it. Kind of like that Star Trek episode when Kirk went through
that parallel universe. You think the Mozilla Team is close?

raf wrote:
> Bill Davidsen wrote:
>> Clothahump wrote:
>>> Sweetums wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, for over 10 years now, The netscape/mozilla/seamonkey mail/news
>>>> readers have lacked this most basic news reader feature.
>>>>
>>>> After 10 years of this mediocrity, can we PLEASE finally have a kill
>>>> key ? I'm willing to PAY to get this feature added. I'm thinking maybe
>>>> $500-$1000 USD, tax free. lowest bidder, and all that.
>>>>
>>>> It has to become part of Seamonkey, not of some extension du jour.
>>>> Would be nice to be a "core" feature so that TBird had it too (not
>>>> that I use TBird, but let's spread the wealth).
>>>>
>>> ============
>>>
>>> Man, I'm broke as a church mouse, but I'll throw a couple of bucks into
>>> the pot to make this happen.
>>>
>>> Folks, we need a killfile, plain and simple.
>> What exactly do you need beyond message filters?
>
> From his statement above, he wants a KEY that will kill. And he will
> pay for it. Kind of like that Star Trek episode when Kirk went through
> that parallel universe. You think the Mozilla Team is close?


Well, gee, the kill filter in Mozilla is just a menu selection and two
mouse clicks - almost a 'key' as it is.

"Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote in
:

> raf wrote:
>> Bill Davidsen wrote:
>>> Clothahump wrote:
>>>> Sweetums wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Man, I'm broke as a church mouse, but I'll throw a couple of
>>>> bucks into the pot to make this happen.
>>>>
>>>> Folks, we need a killfile, plain and simple.
>>>
>>> What exactly do you need beyond message filters?
>>
>> From his statement above, he wants a KEY that will kill. And he
>> will pay for it. Kind of like that Star Trek episode when Kirk
>> went through that parallel universe. You think the Mozilla Team
>> is close?

Probably he mostly wants a global killfile, so the same poster doesn't
have to be plonked each time he's encountered in another group.

> Well, gee, the kill filter in Mozilla is just a menu selection and
> two mouse clicks - almost a 'key' as it is.

Having to use the menu system to bring up a dialog then click the
dialog then click to dismiss a second dialog is pretty far away from
using a single keystroke. (Not that I'd be willing to pay somebody for
the feature.)

--
»Q«

On 09/05/2006 11:35 PM, »Q« wrote:
> "Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote in
> :
>
>> raf wrote:
>>> From his statement above, he wants a KEY that will kill. And he
>>> will pay for it. Kind of like that Star Trek episode when Kirk
>>> went through that parallel universe. You think the Mozilla Team
>>> is close?
>
> Probably he mostly wants a global killfile, so the same poster doesn't
> have to be plonked each time he's encountered in another group.
>

We already have that. We can create news-server-wide filters
by going into this:

Tools/Message Filters/Filters For:// choose
this server.


>> Well, gee, the kill filter in Mozilla is just a menu selection and
>> two mouse clicks - almost a 'key' as it is.
>
> Having to use the menu system to bring up a dialog then click the
> dialog then click to dismiss a second dialog is pretty far away from
> using a single keystroke. (Not that I'd be willing to pay somebody for
> the feature.)
>

Now that I think I know what the OP wants, I see how a key
would be nice.

_Mumia W._ spoke thusly on 06/09/2006 4:03 AM:
> On 09/05/2006 11:35 PM, »Q« wrote:
>
>> Probably he mostly wants a global killfile, so the same poster doesn't
>> have to be plonked each time he's encountered in another group.
>
> We already have that. We can create news-server-wide filters by going
> into this:
>
> Tools/Message Filters/Filters For:// choose this server.

While server-wide filters are better, server-wide filtering != global
filtering. A global filter would apply to every account.
--
Chris Ilias
mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
Mozilla links
(Please do not email me tech support questions)

Mumia W. wrote:
> On 09/05/2006 11:35 PM, »Q« wrote:
>> "Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> raf wrote:
>>>> From his statement above, he wants a KEY that will kill. And he
>>>> will pay for it. Kind of like that Star Trek episode when Kirk
>>>> went through that parallel universe. You think the Mozilla Team
>>>> is close?
>>
>> Probably he mostly wants a global killfile, so the same poster doesn't
>> have to be plonked each time he's encountered in another group.
>>
>
> We already have that. We can create news-server-wide filters by going
> into this:
>
> Tools/Message Filters/Filters For:// choose this server.
>
===================

Did that already. The best that I can do is to mark the message
as read. I don't want the message cluttering up the space, I
want to delete it from my message list.

Clothahump wrote:
> Mumia W. wrote:
>> On 09/05/2006 11:35 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>> "Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> raf wrote:
>>>>> From his statement above, he wants a KEY that will kill. And he
>>>>> will pay for it. Kind of like that Star Trek episode when Kirk
>>>>> went through that parallel universe. You think the Mozilla Team
>>>>> is close?
>>>
>>> Probably he mostly wants a global killfile, so the same poster doesn't
>>> have to be plonked each time he's encountered in another group.
>>>
>>
>> We already have that. We can create news-server-wide filters by going
>> into this:
>>
>> Tools/Message Filters/Filters For:// choose this
>> server.
>>
> ===================
>
> Did that already. The best that I can do is to mark the message as
> read. I don't want the message cluttering up the space, I want to
> delete it from my message list.

Unless you are reading offline, that message is never downloaded to your
machine, unless you click on it to read it of course.
If reading online, like most do these days, messages are not downloaded
to your computer until you click on them, all you have are the headers.

So, say there a thousand 'posts' in the newsgroup, and you have one
person blocked. Each of the other posts are 100 lines, the blocked
person posted five times.
the are 5 lines (headers only) from that person on your computer, while
there are 99,500 lines from the others. Thats lesss than one half of one
percent and its cluttering up your computer?
Heck, if you had 10 people blocked, and they each posted 10 times it
would still take up LESS than 1%!

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:29:50 -0500, "Moz Champion (Dan)"
wrote:


>> Did that already. The best that I can do is to mark the message as
>> read. I don't want the message cluttering up the space, I want to
>> delete it from my message list.
>
>Unless you are reading offline, that message is never downloaded to your
>machine, unless you click on it to read it of course.
>If reading online, like most do these days, messages are not downloaded
>to your computer until you click on them, all you have are the headers.
>
>So, say there a thousand 'posts' in the newsgroup, and you have one
>person blocked. Each of the other posts are 100 lines, the blocked
>person posted five times.
>the are 5 lines (headers only) from that person on your computer, while
>there are 99,500 lines from the others. Thats lesss than one half of one
>percent and its cluttering up your computer?
>Heck, if you had 10 people blocked, and they each posted 10 times it
>would still take up LESS than 1%!

Why the concern over headers and messages out on the Internet? The
deleting of messages and headers is a problem at my computer only -
and therefore, a SM/Moz problem. The idea that my computer cannot
delete message headers and messages which I have seen is silly - Free
Agent has been doing this for years.

--
JohnW-Mpls

JohnW wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:29:50 -0500, "Moz Champion (Dan)"
> wrote:
>
>
>>> Did that already. The best that I can do is to mark the message as
>>> read. I don't want the message cluttering up the space, I want to
>>> delete it from my message list.
>> Unless you are reading offline, that message is never downloaded to your
>> machine, unless you click on it to read it of course.
>> If reading online, like most do these days, messages are not downloaded
>> to your computer until you click on them, all you have are the headers.
>>
>> So, say there a thousand 'posts' in the newsgroup, and you have one
>> person blocked. Each of the other posts are 100 lines, the blocked
>> person posted five times.
>> the are 5 lines (headers only) from that person on your computer, while
>> there are 99,500 lines from the others. Thats lesss than one half of one
>> percent and its cluttering up your computer?
>> Heck, if you had 10 people blocked, and they each posted 10 times it
>> would still take up LESS than 1%!
>
> Why the concern over headers and messages out on the Internet? The
> deleting of messages and headers is a problem at my computer only -
> and therefore, a SM/Moz problem. The idea that my computer cannot
> delete message headers and messages which I have seen is silly - Free
> Agent has been doing this for years.
>
> --
> JohnW-Mpls


But you are not understanding.


When Free Agent 'blocks' or 'deletes' a newsgroup message it doesnt get
rid of it, it simply blocks it so you cant see it.
Thats EXACTLY what the kill function in Thunderbird does.

The header still exists, the message still exists, but both programs USE
the header so the message isnt displayed.

When YOU delete messages, they are removeed from your computer, but they
still exist on the server - you dont see them, but they are still there.

What newsreaders do is download all the headers, and use them to define
if you want to see them or not. When you delete a message from a
newsgroup (not your own) its STILL on the server - but YOU cant see it!

JohnW wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:29:50 -0500, "Moz Champion (Dan)"
> wrote:
>
>
>>> Did that already. The best that I can do is to mark the message as
>>> read. I don't want the message cluttering up the space, I want to
>>> delete it from my message list.
>> Unless you are reading offline, that message is never downloaded to your
>> machine, unless you click on it to read it of course.
>> If reading online, like most do these days, messages are not downloaded
>> to your computer until you click on them, all you have are the headers.
>>
>> So, say there a thousand 'posts' in the newsgroup, and you have one
>> person blocked. Each of the other posts are 100 lines, the blocked
>> person posted five times.
>> the are 5 lines (headers only) from that person on your computer, while
>> there are 99,500 lines from the others. Thats lesss than one half of one
>> percent and its cluttering up your computer?
>> Heck, if you had 10 people blocked, and they each posted 10 times it
>> would still take up LESS than 1%!
>
> Why the concern over headers and messages out on the Internet? The
> deleting of messages and headers is a problem at my computer only -
> and therefore, a SM/Moz problem. The idea that my computer cannot
> delete message headers and messages which I have seen is silly - Free
> Agent has been doing this for years.
>
Agree. All I want is a way to get the headers out of my life so I don't
have to do anything to ignore them. Clearly the "retention" feature can
get rid of headers, so the capability is there, and you can hand edit
the files to make headers go away, why not make it as capable as similar
programs.

And while we're on the topic, why does DEL try to cancel the article.
It's far more common to simply not want to see the article than to want
an actual cancel, but the seldom needed cancel is the default.

--
Bill Davidsen
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot