Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read - Mozilla

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  1. Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.

    Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.

    Any suggestions?

    Geoff

  2. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Geoff Walker wrote:
    > I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >
    > Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    > Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    > show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    > use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    > message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    >
    > Any suggestions?
    >
    > Geoff


    I haven't got any spam to test this with at the moment but does SM still
    Open them if you hide the preview pane?


    --
    -Adrian
    Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

  3. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Geoff Walker wrote:

    > I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >
    > Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    > Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    > show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    > use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    > message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    >
    > Any suggestions?
    >
    > Geoff

    are you using the same profile as Moz. If not, then close SM and go
    into the Moz profile and locate the file training.dat and copy it over
    to your SM profile.

    --
    Time for a change

  4. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    In article ,
    "Adrian (the Aussie)" wrote:

    > Geoff Walker wrote:
    > > I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    > >
    > > Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    > > Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    > > show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    > > use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    > > message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    > >
    > > Any suggestions?
    > >
    > > Geoff

    >
    > I haven't got any spam to test this with at the moment but does SM still
    > Open them if you hide the preview pane?


    I'm guessing that what you call the "preview" pane is what I call the
    "message" pane.

    If that pane is hidden, so that all you see in the mail window is the
    folder pane and the message headers, then manually marking an unread
    message as junk results in that message being marked as read, ie the
    header font changes from bold to normal. Thus even though the message
    has never been opened, SM says that it has been opened. Not what I want!

    Geoff

  5. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    In article <3PGdnZq5HdKeHHDenZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    gwtc
    wrote:

    > Geoff Walker wrote:
    >
    > > I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    > >
    > > Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    > > Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    > > show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    > > use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    > > message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    > >
    > > Any suggestions?
    > >
    > > Geoff

    > are you using the same profile as Moz. If not, then close SM and go
    > into the Moz profile and locate the file training.dat and copy it over
    > to your SM profile.


    Still using my Moz profile! I'm not familiar with training.dat and had
    never looked at it previously, and am now surprised to see that it's a
    15MB file - can this be right?

    Geoff

  6. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Geoff Walker wrote:
    > In article <3PGdnZq5HdKeHHDenZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    > gwtc
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Geoff Walker wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >>>
    >>>Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    >>>Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    >>>show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    >>>use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    >>>message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    >>>
    >>>Any suggestions?
    >>>
    >>>Geoff

    >>
    >>are you using the same profile as Moz. If not, then close SM and go
    >>into the Moz profile and locate the file training.dat and copy it over
    >>to your SM profile.

    >
    >
    > Still using my Moz profile! I'm not familiar with training.dat and had
    > never looked at it previously, and am now surprised to see that it's a
    > 15MB file - can this be right?
    >
    > Geoff

    the training.dat file contains the junk mail control stuff. When you
    mark messages as junk, then its stored within this file. 15 megs, I
    have no idea. I don't use jmc, so I really don't know.

    --
    Time for a change

  7. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Geoff Walker wrote:
    > In article ,
    > "Adrian (the Aussie)" wrote:
    >
    >> Geoff Walker wrote:
    >>> I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >>>
    >>> Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    >>> Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    >>> show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    >>> use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    >>> message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    >>>
    >>> Any suggestions?
    >>>
    >>> Geoff

    >> I haven't got any spam to test this with at the moment but does SM still
    >> Open them if you hide the preview pane?

    >
    > I'm guessing that what you call the "preview" pane is what I call the
    > "message" pane.
    >
    > If that pane is hidden, so that all you see in the mail window is the
    > folder pane and the message headers, then manually marking an unread
    > message as junk results in that message being marked as read, ie the
    > header font changes from bold to normal. Thus even though the message
    > has never been opened, SM says that it has been opened. Not what I want!
    >
    > Geoff



    Hi Geoff

    While I was away doing 3D stuff I received some spam.
    Which SM correctly tagged as such, moving it to the
    junk mail folder. It had not been marked as read.
    So FWIW I am not seeing that behavior here.

    At first I thought you were worried about
    SM opening spam and there by executing a virus.
    Sorry I could not be of more help.


    --
    -Adrian
    "If God is all powerful, he can do everything. He can make a stone
    so heavy
    that even he can't lift it. Then there is something God cannot do, he
    cannot
    lift the stone. Therefore an all powerful God does not exist."
    -Lucretius

  8. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:40:28 +1100, Geoff Walker wrote:

    >I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >
    >Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    >Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    >show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    >use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    >message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    >
    >Any suggestions?
    >
    >Geoff


    Just to confirm; I am seeing the same behavior using SM1 with a fresh
    profile. Preview pane closed.

    Moz 1.7.x works correctly.


  9. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    gwtc wrote:
    > Geoff Walker wrote:
    >> In article <3PGdnZq5HdKeHHDenZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    >> gwtc
    >> wrote:


    >>
    >> Still using my Moz profile! I'm not familiar with training.dat and
    >> had never looked at it previously, and am now surprised to see that
    >> it's a 15MB file - can this be right?
    >>
    >> Geoff

    > the training.dat file contains the junk mail control stuff. When you
    > mark messages as junk, then its stored within this file. 15 megs, I
    > have no idea. I don't use jmc, so I really don't know.
    >


    Just had a look, mine is 1.6 megs. I was using SM1b and now final.
    Before that I backed up my profile with mozback and and have been
    reusing that same profile for a couple of years. Which means it should
    be the same file.

    So I don't know how your training.dat could be that big.
    Do you get lots and lots of spam Geoff?

    --
    -Adrian
    I'm not afraid to die.
    I just don't want to be there when it happens.

  10. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Geoff Walker wrote:
    > I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >
    > Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    > Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    > show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    > use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    > message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.


    Goes to show you can't please everyone, I guess. This is a feature that
    I was actually HAPPY to see. If Seamonkey automatically determines it's
    spam, then it is moved to the Junk Mail folder but left marked "Unread."
    If I MANUALLY mark the mail as spam, it is marked "Read" and then moved
    to the Junk Mail folder. Makes perfect sense to me. If I, personally,
    marked the thing as "Spam" then there's no reason for me to read it
    later. However, if the program did it automatically, then it's good to
    be able to identify which ones were automatically flagged so I can
    double check afterwards.


    --
    Jaime A. Cruz
    Vice President
    Nassau Wings Motorcycle Club
    http://www.nassauwings.org/
    Vice President
    AMA District 34
    http://www.AMADistrict34.com/
    Pop's Run
    http://www.popsrun.org/

  11. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:04:51 -0500, "Cruz, Jaime"
    wrote:

    >Geoff Walker wrote:
    >> I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >>
    >> Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    >> Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    >> show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    >> use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    >> message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.

    >
    >Goes to show you can't please everyone, I guess. This is a feature that
    >I was actually HAPPY to see. If Seamonkey automatically determines it's
    >spam, then it is moved to the Junk Mail folder but left marked "Unread."
    >If I MANUALLY mark the mail as spam, it is marked "Read" and then moved
    >to the Junk Mail folder. Makes perfect sense to me. If I, personally,
    >marked the thing as "Spam" then there's no reason for me to read it
    >later. However, if the program did it automatically, then it's good to
    >be able to identify which ones were automatically flagged so I can
    >double check afterwards.


    Yes, if that's how it works it would be good. I haven't seen/tested
    automatically junk marked messages yet.


  12. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    matthew wrote:
    > On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:04:51 -0500, "Cruz, Jaime"
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Geoff Walker wrote:
    >>> I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >>>
    >>> Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    >>> Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    >>> show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    >>> use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    >>> message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.

    >> Goes to show you can't please everyone, I guess. This is a feature that
    >> I was actually HAPPY to see. If Seamonkey automatically determines it's
    >> spam, then it is moved to the Junk Mail folder but left marked "Unread."
    >> If I MANUALLY mark the mail as spam, it is marked "Read" and then moved
    >> to the Junk Mail folder. Makes perfect sense to me. If I, personally,
    >> marked the thing as "Spam" then there's no reason for me to read it
    >> later. However, if the program did it automatically, then it's good to
    >> be able to identify which ones were automatically flagged so I can
    >> double check afterwards.

    >
    > Yes, if that's how it works it would be good. I haven't seen/tested
    > automatically junk marked messages yet.
    >


    Um, how can you determine a message IS spam (or Junk) without reading
    it? If you are manually marking the message as Junk, then you are
    reading the message, which is about the only real means of knowing
    whether its spam or not anyway.

    And Mozilla products DONT have a 'Preview' pane, they have a "Message"
    pane. You cant PREview messages in Mozilla, you either read them or you
    dont.

  13. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    In article <-sudnVnYTt0iz23enZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    "Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote:

    > matthew wrote:
    > > On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:04:51 -0500, "Cruz, Jaime"
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >> Geoff Walker wrote:
    > >>> I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    > >>>
    > >>> Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    > >>> Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    > >>> show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    > >>> use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    > >>> message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    > >> Goes to show you can't please everyone, I guess. This is a feature that
    > >> I was actually HAPPY to see. If Seamonkey automatically determines it's
    > >> spam, then it is moved to the Junk Mail folder but left marked "Unread."
    > >> If I MANUALLY mark the mail as spam, it is marked "Read" and then moved
    > >> to the Junk Mail folder. Makes perfect sense to me. If I, personally,
    > >> marked the thing as "Spam" then there's no reason for me to read it
    > >> later. However, if the program did it automatically, then it's good to
    > >> be able to identify which ones were automatically flagged so I can
    > >> double check afterwards.

    > >
    > > Yes, if that's how it works it would be good. I haven't seen/tested
    > > automatically junk marked messages yet.
    > >

    >
    > Um, how can you determine a message IS spam (or Junk) without reading
    > it? If you are manually marking the message as Junk, then you are
    > reading the message, which is about the only real means of knowing
    > whether its spam or not anyway.


    If I see a message with the header "Will these shares go higher?" or
    "The magic blue pill only $5", I don't need to open and read the message
    to know that as far as I'm concerned it's spam! I mark manually any
    such messages that have escaped automatic junk marking as junk without
    opening them, and then use Tools -> Delete Mail Marked as Junk in Folder
    to put them in the Trash.

    And then, very occasionally and for various reasons, I will want to
    check the deleted messages in my Trash, in which case being able to
    differentiate between those which I've actually read and those which I
    haven't simplifies matters greatly.

    But the real point is that Moz allowed me to manually mark messages
    (without opening them) as Junk without at the same time marking them as
    read. This seems to have disappeared under SM, even if Tools -> Junk
    Mail Controls ... -> "Mark messages determined to be junk as read" is
    left unchecked.

    Looks to me to be a bug.

    Regards,
    Geoff

    >
    > And Mozilla products DONT have a 'Preview' pane, they have a "Message"
    > pane. You cant PREview messages in Mozilla, you either read them or you
    > dont.


  14. Will these shares go higher?

    Geoff Walker wrote:
    > In article <-sudnVnYTt0iz23enZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
    > "Moz Champion (Dan)" wrote:
    >
    >> matthew wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:04:51 -0500, "Cruz, Jaime"
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Geoff Walker wrote:
    >>>>> I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    >>>>> Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    >>>>> show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    >>>>> use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    >>>>> message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    >>>> Goes to show you can't please everyone, I guess. This is a feature that
    >>>> I was actually HAPPY to see. If Seamonkey automatically determines it's
    >>>> spam, then it is moved to the Junk Mail folder but left marked "Unread."
    >>>> If I MANUALLY mark the mail as spam, it is marked "Read" and then moved
    >>>> to the Junk Mail folder. Makes perfect sense to me. If I, personally,
    >>>> marked the thing as "Spam" then there's no reason for me to read it
    >>>> later. However, if the program did it automatically, then it's good to
    >>>> be able to identify which ones were automatically flagged so I can
    >>>> double check afterwards.
    >>> Yes, if that's how it works it would be good. I haven't seen/tested
    >>> automatically junk marked messages yet.
    >>>

    >> Um, how can you determine a message IS spam (or Junk) without reading
    >> it? If you are manually marking the message as Junk, then you are
    >> reading the message, which is about the only real means of knowing
    >> whether its spam or not anyway.

    >
    > If I see a message with the header "Will these shares go higher?" or
    > "The magic blue pill only $5", I don't need to open and read the message
    > to know that as far as I'm concerned it's spam! I mark manually any
    > such messages that have escaped automatic junk marking as junk without
    > opening them, and then use Tools -> Delete Mail Marked as Junk in Folder
    > to put them in the Trash.
    >
    > And then, very occasionally and for various reasons, I will want to
    > check the deleted messages in my Trash, in which case being able to
    > differentiate between those which I've actually read and those which I
    > haven't simplifies matters greatly.
    >
    > But the real point is that Moz allowed me to manually mark messages
    > (without opening them) as Junk without at the same time marking them as
    > read. This seems to have disappeared under SM, even if Tools -> Junk
    > Mail Controls ... -> "Mark messages determined to be junk as read" is
    > left unchecked.
    >
    > Looks to me to be a bug.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Geoff
    >
    >> And Mozilla products DONT have a 'Preview' pane, they have a "Message"
    >> pane. You cant PREview messages in Mozilla, you either read them or you
    >> dont.


    If you highlight a message (which you have to do to select it) in
    Mozilla products, then after X amount of time the message is marked
    read. The amount of time is configurable in some products.

    As to your penchant for determining spam from titles alone, I guess you
    wont be reading this
    Or pity your friend who writes to you asking the question as well

    Someone could be sending you a joke entitled "The Magic Blue Pill $5" or
    some such.

    Besides, many spam messages have taken to such non descript titles such
    as "Hi" "Hello" "In regards your message" - so you really cant tell
    from subjects alone what is spam, and what isnt.

    Again, you CANT open messages in Mozilla WITHOUT reading them. You can
    obsure (or hide) the message pane so you dont read them, but they will
    be marked as read anyway. The control in JMC that reads
    "Mark messages determined to be junk as read" applies ONLY to the
    automatic Junk marked messages - NOT the manually marked messages

    Actually, its a good system. Now when I go to my junk folder for review,
    I KNOW which messages I marked, and which ones JMC marked. The 'read
    messages' were ones I picked up, then marked Junk and were moved. The
    unread ones are the ones that JMC picked up on its own.

  15. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Am 13.02.2006 12:11 hub Geoff Walker aber zu reden an und sprach:

    > If I see a message with the header "Will these shares go higher?" or
    > "The magic blue pill only $5", I don't need to open and read the message
    > to know that as far as I'm concerned it's spam! I mark manually any
    > such messages that have escaped automatic junk marking as junk without
    > opening them, and then use Tools -> Delete Mail Marked as Junk in Folder
    > to put them in the Trash.


    I think the logic with SM is as follows:

    When you mark a message as junk manually without opening it (directly
    clicking on the junk icon), the message will be marked "read" and the
    message is being moved into the junk folder (if this is set in the junk
    options). Messages found by the junk filter to be spam go there unread.

    So you can see in the junk filter which messages have been moved
    automagically, and therefore /may/ be a false positive (status: unread)
    or which one you have moved there by setting the junk status by hand
    (status: read).

    Every other day I look at the junk folder, look for false positives,
    mark those as "not junk" and move them out into the inbox. Then I mark
    the whole folder "read", and delete the files.

    This way no false positive will be missed, and no need to keep messages
    "unread".

    Just my $.02

    R/\LF

  16. Re: Will these shares go higher?

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:

    >
    > If you highlight a message (which you have to do to select it) in
    > Mozilla products, then after X amount of time the message is marked
    > read. The amount of time is configurable in some products.


    If you right click an unread message and then use the "Move To" function
    to move that unread message to another folder, the message is moved and
    remains marked as unread. I can accomplish the same by using a left
    click drag & drop.

    >
    > As to your penchant for determining spam from titles alone, I guess you
    > wont be reading this
    > Or pity your friend who writes to you asking the question as well
    >
    > Someone could be sending you a joke entitled "The Magic Blue Pill $5" or
    > some such.
    >
    > Besides, many spam messages have taken to such non descript titles such
    > as "Hi" "Hello" "In regards your message" - so you really cant tell
    > from subjects alone what is spam, and what isnt.


    Really? I have several email accounts that I use only for usenet
    posting and for spam traps (this one is an example) and I can pretty
    well tell in an instant by looking at the subject and limited sender
    information as to whether the msg is spam or not. As with Geoff, in
    Mozilla 1.7.12 when I noticed that the junk mail filter didn't catch
    one, I'd simply tag it as junk and off to the Junk folder it would go -
    marked as unread.

    >
    > Again, you CANT open messages in Mozilla WITHOUT reading them. You can
    > obsure (or hide) the message pane so you dont read them, but they will
    > be marked as read anyway. The control in JMC that reads
    > "Mark messages determined to be junk as read" applies ONLY to the
    > automatic Junk marked messages - NOT the manually marked messages


    Then that _is_ a change between Mozilla 1.7.12 and SM.

    >
    > Actually, its a good system. Now when I go to my junk folder for review,
    > I KNOW which messages I marked, and which ones JMC marked. The 'read
    > messages' were ones I picked up, then marked Junk and were moved. The
    > unread ones are the ones that JMC picked up on its own.


    Actually it's not. When I send something to the Junk folder as unread
    I'd like to remain unread. Here's my reasoning: I actively lart spam and
    do so by opening the message offline to review the headers etc. Those
    that I have worked on in my Junk folder are properly marked as read, and
    those that I've yet to _open_ and review are marked as _unread_. By the
    apparently new SM junkfilter rules of marking junk tagged msgs as read,
    I now have to review all of the _unread_ msgs in the folder to determine
    if I actually took action on the spam, or if it wasn't ever read but
    marked read by SM.

    Keep in mind that some spams also spoof the msg date, so if I have a lot
    of msgs in the Junk folder, and the one that I've just marked as junk
    gets moved to the folder as read but has an incorrect msg date, I then
    have to sort through multiple _read_ msgs to see if I can spot the one
    that SM just moved there with a read header.

    The SM Junk Mail Controls panel provides the following:

    x Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
    [meaning that if the box is left unticked the msgs will not be marked as
    read]

    x When I manually mark messages as Junk:
    x Move them to the "Junk" folder
    [meaning that when ticked the messages are "Moved" to the Junk folder -
    presumably in the same way that I can move other msgs to another folder
    without the read/unread status remaining the same]

    IMHO the SM Junk filters/funtions should operate in the same manner as
    Mozilla 1.7.12 by _moving_ the message to the Junk folder and not
    marking it as read.

  17. Re: Will these shares go higher?

    NoOp wrote:
    > Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >
    >> If you highlight a message (which you have to do to select it) in
    >> Mozilla products, then after X amount of time the message is marked
    >> read. The amount of time is configurable in some products.

    >
    > If you right click an unread message and then use the "Move To" function
    > to move that unread message to another folder, the message is moved and
    > remains marked as unread. I can accomplish the same by using a left
    > click drag & drop.
    >
    >> As to your penchant for determining spam from titles alone, I guess you
    >> wont be reading this
    >> Or pity your friend who writes to you asking the question as well
    >>
    >> Someone could be sending you a joke entitled "The Magic Blue Pill $5" or
    >> some such.
    >>
    >> Besides, many spam messages have taken to such non descript titles such
    >> as "Hi" "Hello" "In regards your message" - so you really cant tell
    >> from subjects alone what is spam, and what isnt.

    >
    > Really? I have several email accounts that I use only for usenet
    > posting and for spam traps (this one is an example) and I can pretty
    > well tell in an instant by looking at the subject and limited sender
    > information as to whether the msg is spam or not. As with Geoff, in
    > Mozilla 1.7.12 when I noticed that the junk mail filter didn't catch
    > one, I'd simply tag it as junk and off to the Junk folder it would go -
    > marked as unread.
    >
    >> Again, you CANT open messages in Mozilla WITHOUT reading them. You can
    >> obsure (or hide) the message pane so you dont read them, but they will
    >> be marked as read anyway. The control in JMC that reads
    >> "Mark messages determined to be junk as read" applies ONLY to the
    >> automatic Junk marked messages - NOT the manually marked messages

    >
    > Then that _is_ a change between Mozilla 1.7.12 and SM.
    >
    >> Actually, its a good system. Now when I go to my junk folder for review,
    >> I KNOW which messages I marked, and which ones JMC marked. The 'read
    >> messages' were ones I picked up, then marked Junk and were moved. The
    >> unread ones are the ones that JMC picked up on its own.

    >
    > Actually it's not. When I send something to the Junk folder as unread
    > I'd like to remain unread. Here's my reasoning: I actively lart spam and
    > do so by opening the message offline to review the headers etc. Those
    > that I have worked on in my Junk folder are properly marked as read, and
    > those that I've yet to _open_ and review are marked as _unread_. By the
    > apparently new SM junkfilter rules of marking junk tagged msgs as read,
    > I now have to review all of the _unread_ msgs in the folder to determine
    > if I actually took action on the spam, or if it wasn't ever read but
    > marked read by SM.
    >
    > Keep in mind that some spams also spoof the msg date, so if I have a lot
    > of msgs in the Junk folder, and the one that I've just marked as junk
    > gets moved to the folder as read but has an incorrect msg date, I then
    > have to sort through multiple _read_ msgs to see if I can spot the one
    > that SM just moved there with a read header.
    >
    > The SM Junk Mail Controls panel provides the following:
    >
    > x Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
    > [meaning that if the box is left unticked the msgs will not be marked as
    > read]
    >
    > x When I manually mark messages as Junk:
    > x Move them to the "Junk" folder
    > [meaning that when ticked the messages are "Moved" to the Junk folder -
    > presumably in the same way that I can move other msgs to another folder
    > without the read/unread status remaining the same]
    >
    > IMHO the SM Junk filters/funtions should operate in the same manner as
    > Mozilla 1.7.12 by _moving_ the message to the Junk folder and not
    > marking it as read.


    It may be your opinion, but you didnt develop the software so it
    dont work that way

    The Junk filters DO work that way...
    If JMC catches the spam, it moves it and wont mark it as read (if you
    select that option).

    When YOU manually mark a message, the JMC filter isnt doing anything.
    The message is marked read (because you just did read it/or had the
    opportunity to do so), marked as Junk and disposed with in accordance
    with the settings. Now, when the same message is received afterwards and
    JMC moves it, it wont be marked as read (if you have that option
    selected) because you havent read it.

    You mark a message, you are reading it (or have the opportunity to do
    so) and the message is marked accordingly. If JMC catches the message,
    YOU are not reading the message (most of the time you wont even see it
    prior to JMC moving it) and the message wont be marked as read (unless
    of course you tell JMC to do so)

  18. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >
    > Um, how can you determine a message IS spam (or Junk) without reading
    > it? If you are manually marking the message as Junk, then you are
    > reading the message, which is about the only real means of knowing
    > whether its spam or not anyway.


    If I get an E-Mail from someone named "Nostradamus Phallus" with a
    subject of "Bigger harder erections," well... call me silly but I'm
    going to assume it's spam and I'm going to mark it so without reading
    it. You mean to tell me you can't tell something is spam just by
    looking at the sender and the subject???

    --
    Jaime A. Cruz
    Vice President
    Nassau Wings Motorcycle Club
    http://www.nassauwings.org/
    Vice President
    AMA District 34
    http://www.AMADistrict34.com/
    Pop's Run
    http://www.popsrun.org/

  19. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Geoff Walker wrote:
    > I have just moved to SM from Mozilla 1.7.12 on MacOS10.4.4.
    >
    > Even with Junk Mail Controls set NOT to "Mark messages determined to be
    > Junk as read", manually marking messages as junk changes the marking to
    > show them as read. This is not what I want, and occurs even whenever I
    > use any method of marking messages as junk that does not open the
    > message. It used to work fine under Mozilla.
    >
    > Any suggestions?
    >
    > Geoff


    Unfortunately I think that this is a new "feature" implemented from the
    Thunderbird users requests:

    http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=92904
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=193625
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=253234

    Maybe taking out the
    mail.server.default.markAsReadOnSpam filters will resolve the problem?
    I'll give it a try tomorrow. In the interim, can any other "Moz
    Champions" shed some light on this?



  20. Re: Junk Mail Controls mistakenly marking messages as read

    Jaime A. Cruz, Jr. wrote:
    > Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
    >>
    >> Um, how can you determine a message IS spam (or Junk) without reading
    >> it? If you are manually marking the message as Junk, then you are
    >> reading the message, which is about the only real means of knowing
    >> whether its spam or not anyway.

    >
    > If I get an E-Mail from someone named "Nostradamus Phallus" with a
    > subject of "Bigger harder erections," well... call me silly but I'm
    > going to assume it's spam and I'm going to mark it so without reading
    > it. You mean to tell me you can't tell something is spam just by
    > looking at the sender and the subject???
    >


    Not in all cases. The following spams are all current spams in my Junk
    Folder - irregardless of the seemingly innocuous subject lines and senders

    How are you? Vanessa Finch
    Breaking news Margery@mmedia.nsu.ru
    New message from on MySpace sent on... New MySpace Messsage
    Change 0.25 Edith Wyatt
    FWon't you admit we should find a mar... Kiersten
    Passedc up for the raise..again? Scottie Goldstein
    re: News Release Geoffry Bond
    Re: Swain Jennie
    Fw.1dantu colfaymz
    Please Respond Mohamed B Meadows
    Hey Arthur
    Good news Or solya Waxman
    wshut fno cotangent Aldo Rankin
    Good news Pitambar Kempton
    -
    Dear Friend Joseph Afolabi
    Find more information here! Claudine Finley
    Hi Briana
    Re:tv 801 good news Malinda Beaupre
    Your health is important Jasmine Wright
    her und Trisha Rudolph
    Re: uT 308 good news Heaven Raposo
    Re: MA 660 good news Amilcar Thibodaux
    Re: spooky Pierce Martin
    Re: tW 134 good news Goffredo Nadeau
    Re: bi 215 good news Gobind Fazio
    Call Me Grisham D.
    Re: Wc 637 good news Tudor Newman
    Re: nE 588 good news Epona Schade
    Re: GI 626 good news Buck Harr
    I miss you Marisa
    FW: 1dantu okkxyirdf
    Are you in good health? Graciela Fitzpatrick
    Christmas Shopping (Ref: snap)Everette Herrington
    w news 851s Emmy Seger
    -
    stell kby unit Terry Moody
    Dino Alverez Dino Alverez
    Shipment Notification grsd Frank
    X news 1451 Fastred Mikesell
    k news 3289 Lucija Core
    f news 894w Kreindel Shetley
    Order Confirmation Karl
    re: Hi my friend Shea Zelma


    Thats only in my current catch. Most were caught by JMC, but some werent
    (I can tell the difference because the ones caught by JMC are unread,
    the ones I marked are read)

    So, going by your standards, would you have marked these as spam or not?
    They have innoceous subjects (or non-descript at best) and the names may
    exist (in most cases) - so how would/could you tell they are spam simply
    by looking at the subject line and sender?

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