Multiple X servers?

My site recently got in several dual-head Alpha workstations running
OpenVMS, DECwindows/Motif 1.3-1. (Our software is currently not rated
for VMS V8.2 & DW/M 1.5.) I've got one set up for multiple screens,
but what I'd like to do is have multiple *displays* (i.e., multiple X
servers), so if I happen to set a breakpoint in the routine for
bringing up a popup menu (for example), I can regain control without
going to another machine & killing the process. The machines have a
single keyboard & mouse.

Is this even possible? What's the "right" way to set this up? I'm
assuming Xinerama wouldn't help here.

"Joe Sewell" <ultrajoe@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:1128006291.697282.122170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> My site recently got in several dual-head Alpha workstations running
> OpenVMS, DECwindows/Motif 1.3-1. (Our software is currently not rated
> for VMS V8.2 & DW/M 1.5.) I've got one set up for multiple screens,
> but what I'd like to do is have multiple *displays* (i.e., multiple X
> servers), so if I happen to set a breakpoint in the routine for
> bringing up a popup menu (for example), I can regain control without
> going to another machine & killing the process. The machines have a
> single keyboard & mouse.
>
> Is this even possible? What's the "right" way to set this up? I'm
> assuming Xinerama wouldn't help here.
>[/color]

The short answer is: *Each* X11 server instance must have it's own
graphics display, and a KB and mouse. If you have a functioning
USB port, it is possible to do this with a few magic commands.
Except for the EV7 based systems, I'm not sure any of the Alpha
workstations have correctly working USB ports. You could go to
WalMart and buy a 5-port belkin PCI USB card (which is what I
do on my DS10).

The design of the input drivers and server interfaces would require
major surgery to change this.

An easier way is is get a VNC server running. Run your debugger outside
the VNC in the main window on display 0. Run the target inside the VNC,
and run the viewier display 1 (or the same screen, even).

Your VNC server/viewer doesn't even need to run on the same machine, if
you have trouble compiling it.

Xnest can provide the functionality you want.

--- Casantos

"ST" <tringali@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yfY_e.10843$WT3.10784@trnddc03...[color=blue]
> An easier way is is get a VNC server running. Run your debugger outside
> the VNC in the main window on display 0. Run the target inside the VNC,
> and run the viewier display 1 (or the same screen, even).
>
> Your VNC server/viewer doesn't even need to run on the same machine, if
> you have trouble compiling it.[/color]

I don't know of a VNC *server* for VMS, I know there is a VNC *client* for
VMS.

But it doesn't help him. He wants to not have the interactive issues of an
active X11 application (be it the debugger, or VNC) on the same X11 server.
This can be an issue, because simply changing focus can change the
state of the application being debugged.

The alternatives that I see are:

- Don't use the DECwindows debugger, and plug in a terminal or
a PC with a terminal emulator (or X11 emulator).

- Use another X11 workstation

- Figure out how to get a USB PCI card onto the system so that you
can get a second KB and Mouse - in which case you can run the
system dual seat with a server for each head.kb.mouse combination.

I'll bite. I know kind of what it is, how does it solve it? And do you
know
of a VMS implementation?

<nojunk@gate.cpmet.ufpel.tche.br> wrote in message
news:1128035461.636557.278680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Xnest can provide the functionality you want.
>
> --- Casantos
>[/color]

Hi Joe Sewell

What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you are
using on your DS10? Do any of the other single or dual port boards
work?

What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you
using?

I am using a DS10L.

Thanks

Stuart

While I am not Joe, AFAIK the only USB card that I have seen at Wal-Mart is
a 5-port USB card that is packaged by Belkin, and which has a NEC chip on
it.

I'd have to pull my system apart to get the chip detail, but I'm sure it has
come
up before in the past (google search the archives for something from
probably
Forrest Kenney).

You may need to edit an entry into sys$user_config.dat for it.

V7.3-2 & V8.2-1



<stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1128078276.849643.308880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Hi Joe Sewell
>
> What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you are
> using on your DS10? Do any of the other single or dual port boards
> work?
>
> What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you
> using?
>
> I am using a DS10L.
>
> Thanks
>
> Stuart
>[/color]

In article <yfY_e.10843$WT3.10784@trnddc03>, ST <tringali@yahoo.com> writes:[color=blue]
> An easier way is is get a VNC server running. Run your debugger outside
> the VNC in the main window on display 0. Run the target inside the VNC,
> and run the viewier display 1 (or the same screen, even).
>
> Your VNC server/viewer doesn't even need to run on the same machine, if
> you have trouble compiling it.[/color]

Is there a VNC server for VMS now? Last time I looked only the
client was available.

Try the F5U220 which is the 5-port Belkin USB controller. $29.62

[url]http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2470580[/url]



<stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1128078276.849643.308880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Hi Joe Sewell
>
> What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you are
> using on your DS10? Do any of the other single or dual port boards
> work?
>
> What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you
> using?
>
> I am using a DS10L.
>
> Thanks
>
> Stuart
>[/color]

FredK wrote:
[color=blue]
> But it doesn't help him. He wants to not have the interactive issues of an
> active X11 application (be it the debugger, or VNC) on the same X11 server.
> This can be an issue, because simply changing focus can change the
> state of the application being debugged.[/color]

That is why you run the debug *target* inside the VNC - it has it's own
virtualized X server unaffected by anything.

If there's no VNC server for VMS, simply run the server on another
(Linux) box and remote display to it. Example:

vmsbox: run your reals X server and VNC client
linuxbox: runs the VNC server

On vmsbox, start your debugger. Tell it to run "myapp -display
linuxbox:1" where "linuxbox:1" is a VNC server

If there is no VNC client for VMS, simply run the *client* on the
another box and remote display back to your VMS box (vncviewer -display
vmsbox:0 linuxbox:1". I doubt this since the VNC client is so simple
that it can run in a web browser.

Trust me, I do this ALL the time for weird UNIX boxes, and I never need
to compile any VNC servers or clients.

"ST" <tringali@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i5g%e.983$kl3.527@trnddc08...[color=blue]
> FredK wrote:
>[color=green]
> > But it doesn't help him. He wants to not have the interactive issues of[/color][/color]
an[color=blue][color=green]
> > active X11 application (be it the debugger, or VNC) on the same X11[/color][/color]
server.[color=blue][color=green]
> > This can be an issue, because simply changing focus can change the
> > state of the application being debugged.[/color]
>
> That is why you run the debug *target* inside the VNC - it has it's own
> virtualized X server unaffected by anything.
>
> If there's no VNC server for VMS, simply run the server on another
> (Linux) box and remote display to it. Example:
>
> vmsbox: run your reals X server and VNC client
> linuxbox: runs the VNC server
>
> On vmsbox, start your debugger. Tell it to run "myapp -display
> linuxbox:1" where "linuxbox:1" is a VNC server
>
> If there is no VNC client for VMS, simply run the *client* on the
> another box and remote display back to your VMS box (vncviewer -display
> vmsbox:0 linuxbox:1". I doubt this since the VNC client is so simple
> that it can run in a web browser.
>
> Trust me, I do this ALL the time for weird UNIX boxes, and I never need
> to compile any VNC servers or clients.[/color]

Interesting, if perverse, hack. There are some downsides to it, since it
will not model the actual run time environment exactly, but for simple
application debug - sounds like a interesting idea.

Unfortunately, in Joe's case (since I know where he works) - they are
running a complex 2D and 3D environment - that I doubt they would be
able to bounce sucessfully through a VNC client.

Xnest allows you to run "virtual" X servers as clients of "true" X
servers. For
example, supposing your display is ":0", you can provide display ":1"
with

Xnest :1

After that you can start your application, redirecting it to the
virtual X server:

my_program -display :1

If you want to debug your program, set the DISPLAY environment variable
to ":1" before starting the debugger. With GUI-based debuger (like
DDD),
however, it is better to pass "-display :1" a command-line argument
from
inside the debugger.

I hope you can use the examples above. I'm sorry but can't remember the
correct command-line syntax for OpenVMS. I used to know these things
ten
years ago, but time goes by...

If you don't have Xnest for OpenVMS you can try to compile it, but that
can
become a hard and tedious task. The source code is included in the
X.Org
reference implementation, available at

[url]ftp://ftp.x.org/pub/X11R6.8.2/src-single/X11R6.8.2-src.tar.bz2[/url]

After extracting it, go to xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xnest/ .

--- Casantos

Xnest can provide the functionality you want

--- Casanto

Hi Joe Sewel

What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you ar
using on your DS10? Do any of the other single or dual port board
work

What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are yo
using

I am using a DS10L.

Thank

Stuar

Xnest allows you to run "virtual" X servers as clients of "true"
servers. Fo
example, supposing your display is ":0", you can provide display ":1
wit

Xnest :

After that you can start your application, redirecting it to th
virtual X server

my_program -display :

If you want to debug your program, set the DISPLAY environment variabl
to ":1" before starting the debugger. With GUI-based debuger (lik
DDD)
however, it is better to pass "-display :1" a command-line argumen
fro
inside the debugger

I hope you can use the examples above. I'm sorry but can't remember th
correct command-line syntax for OpenVMS. I used to know these thing
te
years ago, but time goes by..

If you don't have Xnest for OpenVMS you can try to compile it, but tha
ca
become a hard and tedious task. The source code is included in th
X.Or
reference implementation, available a

[url]ftp://ftp.x.org/pub/X11R6.8.2/src-single/X11R6.8.2-src.tar.bz[/url]

After extracting it, go to xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xnest/

--- Casanto

[email]stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au[/email] wrote:[color=blue]
> Hi Joe Sewell
>
> What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you are
> using on your DS10? Do any of the other single or dual port boards
> work?
>
> What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you
> using?
>
> I am using a DS10L.
>
> Thanks
>
> Stuart[/color]

I think it's FredK you want to direct that at.

[email]stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au[/email] wrote[color=blue]
> Hi Joe Sewel[/color]
[color=blue]
> What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you ar
> using on your DS10? Do any of the other single or dual port board
> work[/color]
[color=blue]
> What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are yo
> using[/color]
[color=blue]
> I am using a DS10L
>
> Thank
>
> Stuar[/color]

I think it's FredK you want to direct that at