Re: mod_perl survey results
Ok guys, I'm nowhere as good a programmer as many people on this list,
but a) I do have patience with beginners, b) I'm convinced and c) maybe
I can do something in terms of documentation, if only to fix missing
links. And d) I'd love to see my name somewhere as a contributor, even
at the very end and in small font.
So, where do I start ?
Steven Siebert wrote:[color=blue]
> I'm relatively new to mod_perl - moving to a new job who's application
> is solely written in it. This is a return to Perl for me, having
> worked in PHP, Java, and .NET since Perl 4. As I'm learning to love
> mod_perl and Perl in general, perhaps it's a good time for me to
> contribute back by writing perl/mod_perl blogs and tutorials to help
> others easing in from other languages (written with a set of
> assumptions). I've seen the "to-do" list, if you will, on the
> mod_perl Advocacy page
> ([url]http://perl.apache.org/docs/general/advocacy/advocacy.html[/url]) but not
> sure how dated this is or what is the best to tackle.
> Let me know how to get involved - it is my job security after all =).
> Seriously, though, the flexibility of mod_perl is just not available
> in many of the other languages and I think it's "don't know what you
> don't know" sort of thing...so much work is done in the application
> code when it could be solved with a few lines using mod_perl at the
> httpd abstract layer. I have a blog site but if perl.apache.org
> desires host tutorials and blogs, so much the better (better
> I've also noticed the mod_perl advocacy mailing list is all but dead.
> Perhaps this is the best channel to bring these issues up?
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Adam Prime <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:[color=green]
>> André Warnier wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> The responses there are indeed a bit scary. It feels like we're a dying
>>> I believe this is to a large extent a "marketing issue" for perl in
>>> general, and mod_perl by extension, with regard to the younger programmers
>>> generation. At least in various European countries I know, perl is not
>>> really being taught in programming schools as a "serious" programming
>>> language for applications. These young people have all heard the name, but
>>> seem to consider it as a powerful but somewhat messy scripting language to
>>> create system administration scripts.
>>> I am personally doing my best to introduce these newbies to the beauties
>>> of perl and mod_perl, but it feels rather lonely sometimes.
>>> Java and PHP seem definitely more popular, or better-known.[/color]
>> I agree that this does echo perl's problems in general, but mod_perl has a
>> long history of not really being very good at marketing itself. I know
>> Perrin and some other people did try at the launch of mod_perl2, but that
>> effort (and the associated mailing list) has long since dried up.
>>> - A surprising number of people are running mod_perl under the worker MPM.
>>> What is so surprising about this ? (genuine curious question)[/color]
>> It's surprising to me, and probably to Torsten, because the perceived common
>> wisdom is to run prefork, because worker may or may not be as well tested,
>> and has all the bonus issues related to thread-safeness.
>>>>> - the documentation could use some work. Specifically more tutorial /
>>>>> intro kind of stuff.
>>> Agreed. There is a definite need also for something like a new mod_perl
>>> Guide and Cookbook all-in-one, updated for mod_perl 2 and with a section
>>> about the framework/template systems mentioned above. Written in a style
>>> meant to show that these are not old-fashioned technologies only practised
>>> by oldies like me (us?).
>>> What I mean is that to cover all one needs to know to create some serious
>>> web applications in Java, you'd need at least 6 thick volumes, while for
>>> Perl 800-1000 pages would be more than enough.
>>> O'Reilly, where are you ?[/color]
>> Honestly, I think this stuff is currently better handled by the community.
>> As such, i'm going to take a stab at writing some very basic intro /
>> tutorial kind of documentation to be added to perl.apache.org. When i
>> started with mod_perl 1, the Guide on thought the "guide" perl.apache.org
>> was amazing, but it seems to me that mod_perl 2 doesn't have that in the
>> same way. Much of the content has been ported over to the 2.0 section, but
>> there are many pages that haven't been updated from the 1.0 tree at all.