Minix Case Study? - Minix

This is a discussion on Minix Case Study? - Minix ; I was wondering if there is are case studies for Minix? For example, I was wanting to know if there was a use for Minix beyond the classroom? I originally searched google, but yealded few/no real results. The results was ...

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  1. Minix Case Study?

    I was wondering if there is are case studies for Minix? For example, I
    was wanting to know if there was a use for Minix beyond the classroom?
    I originally searched google, but yealded few/no real results. The
    results was flooded with too much with Linux results.

    TIA, James.


  2. Re: Minix Case Study?

    Dear James,

    I don't have much idea on case studies on minix, but if you wanted to
    know, if we can use minix beyond classes or not, I can say something
    about it...

    Till minix 2, it was more a teaching tool rather than for general
    purposes..If we are planning to use it in yahoo/google servers,
    probably it is not the one...but I don't think if there is something
    really bad in minix, for which it can't be used as our desktop
    purposes! at least for a programmer...It is obviously can't be used as
    a Xbox for playing 3D games..the worst case to say...

    Minix 3 is rather more to be used as a general purpose OS than a
    teaching tool. Many new and exciting things (such as self healing) are
    there in it to be as close to commodity OSs as possible and to perform
    even better than them, at least in reliability perspective. We have a
    GUI (bare X windows system) in it...and a handful of utilities to
    serve to our daily needs...For a programmer, it is one of the best
    choices.

    To know more, we can start playing with it...And more to it, Minix 3
    book serves as the manual for it...and we can have a full picture of a
    simple and workable OS as a programmer...we can have a bare system to
    grow with as a practitioner... and a beautiful tool to learn OS as a
    student... and an OS to compare with other OSs to look for more
    innovative things to implement as a researcher...

    Hope it helps.

    Thanks.
    Srinu


  3. Re: Minix Case Study?

    Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    appreciated.


  4. Re: Minix Case Study?

    James wrote:
    > Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    > keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    > Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    > appreciated.
    >


    Perhaps it is that is only recently promoted for things outside the
    educational area? In other words...give it time, it'll be on servers soon.

  5. Re: Minix Case Study?

    James wrote:
    > Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    > keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    > Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    > appreciated.


    Device drivers, mainly. Apache, PHP, mysql and the likes have already
    been ported, but hardware support is still very limited.

    --
    Jens de Smit
    Student Computer Science | Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
    jfdsmit@few.vu.nl | http://www.few.vu.nl/~jfdsmit
    "[In the end, people] get furious at IT that the goddamn magic isn't working"
    -- Stewart Dean

  6. Re: Minix Case Study?

    James (jamez.clayton@gmail.com) writes:
    > Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    > keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    > Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    > appreciated.
    >

    Look at it from the other angle, what appeal does it have to use
    it for such things?

    Linux is around, and even real Unix. Neither hard drive space nor
    ram is a problem these days, so "I need something smaller" is hardly
    an issue.

    Linux is far more common, which means most of what you want already
    exists and it's really easy to find people familiar with it, and find
    books and tutorials.

    WIth all that, there has to be some incentive to go against that
    flow and use Minix. Find that incentive, and you've got your
    answer.

    Michael



  7. Re: Minix Case Study?

    On Sep 13, 6:50 pm, et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
    > James (jamez.clay...@gmail.com) writes:
    > > Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    > > keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    > > Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    > > appreciated.

    >
    > Look at it from the other angle, what appeal does it have to use
    > it for such things?
    >
    > Linux is around, and even real Unix. Neither hard drive space nor
    > ram is a problem these days, so "I need something smaller" is hardly
    > an issue.
    >
    > Linux is far more common, which means most of what you want already
    > exists and it's really easy to find people familiar with it, and find
    > books and tutorials.
    >
    > WIth all that, there has to be some incentive to go against that
    > flow and use Minix. Find that incentive, and you've got your
    > answer.
    >
    > Michael


    I agree Linux is common. More importantly, I think Linux is popular,
    because it has support for tons of things and it has a great
    development environment. If Minix was to polish its development
    environment, do you think developers would come to it? Are there any
    developers in this group, that would embrace Minix as a development
    platform, if it has support that Linux does?


  8. Re: Minix Case Study?

    James (jamez.clayton@gmail.com) writes:
    > On Sep 13, 6:50 pm, et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
    >> James (jamez.clay...@gmail.com) writes:
    >> > Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    >> > keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    >> > Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    >> > appreciated.

    >>
    >> Look at it from the other angle, what appeal does it have to use
    >> it for such things?
    >>
    >> Linux is around, and even real Unix. Neither hard drive space nor
    >> ram is a problem these days, so "I need something smaller" is hardly
    >> an issue.
    >>
    >> Linux is far more common, which means most of what you want already
    >> exists and it's really easy to find people familiar with it, and find
    >> books and tutorials.
    >>
    >> WIth all that, there has to be some incentive to go against that
    >> flow and use Minix. Find that incentive, and you've got your
    >> answer.
    >>
    >> Michael

    >
    > I agree Linux is common. More importantly, I think Linux is popular,
    > because it has support for tons of things and it has a great
    > development environment. If Minix was to polish its development
    > environment, do you think developers would come to it? Are there any
    > developers in this group, that would embrace Minix as a development
    > platform, if it has support that Linux does?
    >

    I was pointing out that unless something has something that can
    draw potential users, there is no incentive to change.

    How many people stick with Windows? They've paid for it, they're
    used to it, it's already installed. There has to be a good reason
    for them to give up that comfort to move to another operating system,
    which entails a lot of work and learning, and will invalidate
    the investment they have in Windows.

    There was a time when Minix was the cat's meow. Circa 1990, I
    was certainly tempted to spend the $90 or so dollars (more
    with exchange) to get the disks for my Atari ST. There wasn't
    nearly as clear a field back then as now, there was less of
    an investment in any one standard, and it would have given me
    "unix" at a far lower cost than the real thing (if the real
    thing was even available or within my reach).

    But there are alternatives, that are better developed, more
    comprehensive. If Minix is comparable, people would still
    need a good reason to make the effort to change.

    Michael



  9. Re: Minix Case Study?

    On Sep 14, 11:15 am, et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
    > James (jamez.clay...@gmail.com) writes:
    > > On Sep 13, 6:50 pm, et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
    > >> James (jamez.clay...@gmail.com) writes:
    > >> > Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    > >> > keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    > >> > Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    > >> > appreciated.

    >
    > >> Look at it from the other angle, what appeal does it have to use
    > >> it for such things?

    >
    > >> Linux is around, and even real Unix. Neither hard drive space nor
    > >> ram is a problem these days, so "I need something smaller" is hardly
    > >> an issue.

    >
    > >> Linux is far more common, which means most of what you want already
    > >> exists and it's really easy to find people familiar with it, and find
    > >> books and tutorials.

    >
    > >> WIth all that, there has to be some incentive to go against that
    > >> flow and use Minix. Find that incentive, and you've got your
    > >> answer.

    >
    > >> Michael

    >
    > > I agree Linux is common. More importantly, I think Linux is popular,
    > > because it has support for tons of things and it has a great
    > > development environment. If Minix was to polish its development
    > > environment, do you think developers would come to it? Are there any
    > > developers in this group, that would embrace Minix as a development
    > > platform, if it has support that Linux does?

    >
    > I was pointing out that unless something has something that can
    > draw potential users, there is no incentive to change.
    >
    > How many people stick with Windows? They've paid for it, they're
    > used to it, it's already installed. There has to be a good reason
    > for them to give up that comfort to move to another operating system,
    > which entails a lot of work and learning, and will invalidate
    > the investment they have in Windows.
    >
    > There was a time when Minix was the cat's meow. Circa 1990, I
    > was certainly tempted to spend the $90 or so dollars (more
    > with exchange) to get the disks for my Atari ST. There wasn't
    > nearly as clear a field back then as now, there was less of
    > an investment in any one standard, and it would have given me
    > "unix" at a far lower cost than the real thing (if the real
    > thing was even available or within my reach).
    >
    > But there are alternatives, that are better developed, more
    > comprehensive. If Minix is comparable, people would still
    > need a good reason to make the effort to change.
    >
    > Michael- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    I agree.Minix doesn't need to be anthoner linux.In educational
    erea,its small size is good for us studnents to understand modern
    os.In industry,it can find its place in EMBED system.I am a
    jackeroo,and I hope minix keeps simple and tiny.


  10. Re: Minix Case Study?

    Michael Black wrote:
    > James (jamez.clayton@gmail.com) writes:
    >> Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    >> keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    >> Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    >> appreciated.
    >>

    > Look at it from the other angle, what appeal does it have to use
    > it for such things?


    > Linux is around, and even real Unix. Neither hard drive space nor
    > ram is a problem these days, so "I need something smaller" is hardly
    > an issue.


    Remember that Minix' small size is only one of the design goals. Also,
    this goal is achieved by making the all parts of the OS optional. The
    microkernel design and overall structure of the kernel allows for
    disabling features unnecessary for a specific purpose. However, once
    Minix is "fully grown" I don't think it will be much smaller than
    Linux _in its full form_. The power of Minix is that it's easy to
    throw anything out that you don't need.

    Another important design goal might be more interesting for server
    admins: reliability. More and more, servers are the very heart of
    almost any company: if a server fails, almost every employee is stuck
    until everything is back in working order or a company might miss
    revenues due to its website being unavailable. Minix is designed to be
    resistant to complete OS crashes, to keep running when other OSes
    would require a kick in the head.

    Regards,

    Jens


    --
    Jens de Smit
    Student Computer Science | Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
    jfdsmit@few.vu.nl | http://www.few.vu.nl/~jfdsmit
    "[In the end, people] get furious at IT that the goddamn magic isn't working"
    -- Stewart Dean

  11. Re: Minix Case Study?


    Barnacle Bill the Sailor wrote:

    > James wrote:
    >> Concerning the technical aspect of Minix, does anyone know what is
    >> keeping it out of the server market? What would it take to help meet
    >> Minix's goal of being used as a general purpose OS? Any ideas would be
    >> appreciated.
    >>

    >
    > Perhaps it is that is only recently promoted for things outside the
    > educational area? In other words...give it time, it'll be on servers soon.


    On a related tune:

    - Anybody knows what's keeping / kept OS/2 from the server market?
    - Anybody knows what's keeping Zeta from the desktop market?
    - Anybody know what kept BeOS from the desktop market?
    - ...

    Gaah! People!

    After you had thought some time about all this questions, you should
    realize that not all reasons are technical and often not even easy to
    diagnose. The simplest way to see it (but it's never so simple) is,
    that there is already some established solution in market X. Like
    Linux or *BSD in example. Or Windows 200x server.

    I don't want to bash Minix, but realistically, it will never be ready
    for "the server market". Not within the next five years. Apart from
    (yet) missing important features for main stream server applications
    (therading, virtual memory, power management etc), you also don't seem
    to realize how much politics, cost optimization and obscure interfaces
    are involved in the server market.

    Minix has a really nice code base to start something new. Only what?
    Realize that it is very very rare, that a system / application /
    whatever replaces another one in a given market in which the other on
    is already deeply entrenched. Linux works and has great uptimes --
    what's the business case for using Minix in "the server market"?

    I don't say all this to malign Minix. But Minix will have to wait
    until it's window of opportunity (e.g. a change in the market
    landscape) comes. It would be nice to position it against QNX. But
    there is already QNX in this market (and it's rather realtime) and
    embedded Linux or still NetBSD (to a certain extent). Will be
    difficult to grow with so much shadow.

    Regards -- Markus






  12. Re: Minix Case Study?


    James wrote:


    > environment, do you think developers would come to it? Are there any
    > developers in this group, that would embrace Minix as a development
    > platform, if it has support that Linux does?


    Or are there any developers at all "in this group"? My impression from
    the postings here it, it has become much more quiet than it was, let's
    say, five years ago.

    Regards -- Markus




  13. Re: Minix Case Study?

    No one has answered my question. If Minix has the abilities of Linux,
    or even a BSD, would you embrace Minix? I am posing this question to
    the Minix group, because I thought there would be some fans of Minix
    in here.

    I know you think that it is silly to ask such a question, because of
    the obvious. But, remember that Windows and Unix had a share, before
    Linux came along. And for some reason, everyone flocks to Linux, when
    there are other open source alternatives, to the alternative. While I
    think Linux is great technology, I think much of the popularity has to
    do with its grass roots movement/evangelism.

    Minix3 seems like a great technology, even in its infancy. I really
    like the self-healing factor. I just want to know why someone has not
    looked to further developing Minix3, instead of the code just
    stagnating and/or waiting for some grad students in Europe to crank it
    out, in their spare time. (I would love to develop Minix3, but I am
    not a OS developer. Maybe one day.)


  14. Re: Minix Case Study?

    James wrote:

    > If Minix was to polish its development
    > environment, do you think developers would come to it? Are there any
    > developers in this group, that would embrace Minix as a development
    > platform, if it has support that Linux does?


    I don't know about development environments. I do believe that the lack of
    some features (support for USB and SCSI, ELF) makes it hard for some to
    maintain their interest. There have been quite a few complains/requests for
    those features and in contrast this was the very first time I've seen a
    request for a development environment.


    Rui Maciel

  15. Re: Minix Case Study?


    Rui Maciel wrote:

    > James wrote:
    >
    >> If Minix was to polish its development
    >> environment, do you think developers would come to it? Are there any
    >> developers in this group, that would embrace Minix as a development
    >> platform, if it has support that Linux does?

    >
    > I don't know about development environments. I do believe that the lack of
    > some features (support for USB and SCSI, ELF) makes it hard for some to
    > maintain their interest. There have been quite a few complains/requests for


    Yes. Complaints and requests. I wonder why "they" didn't just add the
    missing features.

    > those features and in contrast this was the very first time I've seen a
    > request for a development environment.



    Regards -- Markus


  16. Re: Minix Case Study?

    Markus E L wrote:

    > Yes. Complaints and requests.


    I understand what you mean. It must be a tad frustrating.


    > I wonder why "they" didn't just add the
    > missing features.


    You have to understand that, even between those presently interested in
    minix, not everyone is a CS or EE major. Even between those who in fact are
    CS or EE majors, not everyone has the know-how and expertise to just get
    hold of a keyboard and write a device driver for any operating system, let
    alone a fringe one with an "uncommon" design.

    If that wasn't the case, naturally that would never be a problem.

    But when discussing issues like market acceptance, issues like adoption
    barriers are unavoidable. Moreover, no one should expect that those who
    gave minix a try and were left underwhelmed due to the lack of some
    features should just write their own. Not everyone has the know-how, time,
    interest or even motivation to do that job. So why should they be
    criticised for not offering any contribution?


    Rui Maciel

  17. Re: Minix Case Study?

    On 2007-09-13, Markus E L wrote:

    > I don't want to bash Minix, but realistically, it will never be ready
    > for "the server market". Not within the next five years.


    But it would be nice to put an end to the photos of ATMs with BSoD
    - and even nicer for those who work in banks not to attend meetings
    that discuss what antivirus to put on ATMs. Sometimes you know someone
    is asking the wrong question.

    --
    Elvis Notargiacomo master AT barefaced DOT cheek
    http://www.notatla.org.uk/goen/

  18. Re: Minix Case Study?


    'et472 AT FreeNet DOT Carleton DOT CA (Michael Black)' wrote:

    >> (2) It's in my opinion more a question of persistence and a do-it-
    >> yourself / help-yourself attitude instead of either believing from
    >> the outset that this is to complicated and or leaving it to others
    >> to do it (or argue that it is their responsibility). To be a bit
    >> ironic: I'm quite sure that, if you're dissatisfied with Minix,
    >> you'll get back every piece of money you paid for it :-).
    >>

    > And there is a certain irony here. An OS is created to serve as
    > an example when teaching about operating systems, people jump on
    > the bandwagon to use it beyond that purpose, and then expect features
    > from the teachers.


    Oh yes. Irony abounds :-).

    Regards -- Markus

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