Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows - Minix

This is a discussion on Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows - Minix ; I'm sure this question has been asked numerous times and been answered just as many times, but I can't immediately find the answer. I have an 8 GB hard drive, currently with two partitions. The first partition (c0d0p0) has Windows ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

  1. Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    I'm sure this question has been asked numerous times and been answered
    just as many times, but I can't immediately find the answer.

    I have an 8 GB hard drive, currently with two partitions. The first
    partition (c0d0p0) has Windows 2000 installed. The second partition
    (c0d0p1) has MINIX 3.1.2. I'd like to mount my Windows partition (NTFS
    file system) for reading within MINIX. I can do this easily in Linux,
    but when I try to do the following in MINIX, I get an error (I am
    logged in as "root"):

    $ mkdir /usr/hd
    $ mount /dev/c0d0p0 /usr/hd
    mount: Can't mount /dev/c0d0p0 on /usr/hd: Invalid argument

    Do I need to do something with dosutils or dosread or something? Will
    it only read this partition if I identify it in /etc/fstab?

    Thanks!
    Chris


  2. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    it is the same problen as in linux : u need a ntfs driver, which I
    thinks has not been ported to Minix


  3. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    If I were to re-install Windows 2000 with the FAT or FAT32 filesystem,
    would that make my life easier?

    Thanks!
    Chris


  4. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    if u have FAT driver for minix, u will be able to access the partinion


  5. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    crandall wrote:

    > I have an 8 GB hard drive, currently with two partitions. The first
    > partition (c0d0p0) has Windows 2000 installed. The second partition
    > (c0d0p1) has MINIX 3.1.2. I'd like to mount my Windows partition (NTFS
    > file system) for reading within MINIX. I can do this easily in Linux,
    > but when I try to do the following in MINIX, I get an error (I am
    > logged in as "root"):


    Minix never has, and possibly never will have, the ability to mount
    foreign file systems. It has in the past always been considered
    a complication that would make it harder for Minix to be a simple
    system for teaching OS principles.

    Minix has always provided utilities for reading and writing
    directories and files in foreign file systems. Originally there were
    the dosdir/dosread/doswrite utilities for small FAT file systems; now
    mtools can access larger FAT file systems. The isoinfo/isodir/isoread
    utilities provide similar access to iso 9660 (CD-ROM) file systems.

    In principle someone could write a set of ntdir/ntread/ntwrite
    utilities, but NTFS is not an open standard, and has been a moving
    target in the past.

    You can install a new Windows XP system on a FAT partition but you
    can't convert an existing NTFS system to FAT, and almost universally
    new systems with Windows pre-installed come with Windows on an NTFS
    file system. It is possible, with care and the right utilities, to
    reduce the size of a Windows partition (you may have done this already
    to make a Minix partition). The most practical way to exchange files
    between Minix and a Windows system on the same machine is to make a
    new small FAT partition that each OS can access, and use this as a
    staging area for transferring files.

    This should be in the FAQ... I know I've answered this one before. Well,
    actually, it is there at http://www.minix3.org/doc/datxchng.html.
    That page was first written back in the days before mtools was
    available, when Minix could only access small FAT partitions. The
    principle is the same.

    --
    +----------------------------------+
    | Albert S. Woodhull |
    | awoodhull@hampshire.edu |
    | http://minix1.woodhull.com/asw/ |
    +----------------------------------+
    The idea is to die young as late as possible.

  6. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    awoodhull@hampshire.edu wrote:
    > Minix never has, and possibly never will have, the ability to mount
    > foreign file systems. It has in the past always been considered
    > a complication that would make it harder for Minix to be a simple
    > system for teaching OS principles.


    I'm surprised to hear this. I would have thought that in Minix 3 with
    its micro-kernel design one would simply create a user-space FAT32,
    ext2/3, UFS, NFS, or what ever file-system daemon to hook in the
    necessary translation layer. I would have also thought this would be of
    interest for teaching purposes too, since in a Windows centric world,
    one needs to understand how to interoperate with other file systems in a
    user friendly manner in order to move data around. I'm sure there are
    many note worthy issues, particularly w.r.t. NFS and file locking.

    --
    Anthony C Howe Skype: SirWumpus SnertSoft
    +33 6 11 89 73 78 AIM: SirWumpus Sendmail Milter Solutions
    http://www.snert.com/ ICQ: 7116561 http://www.snertsoft.com/

  7. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    Anthony Howe wrote:
    > awoodhull@hampshire.edu wrote:
    > > Minix never [had], and possibly never will have, the ability to mount
    > > foreign file systems.


    > I'm surprised to hear this. I would have thought that in Minix 3 with
    > its micro-kernel design one would simply create a user-space FAT32,
    > ext2/3, UFS, NFS, or what ever file-system daemon to hook in the
    > necessary translation layer.


    I was being cautious when I said Minix possibly will never have the
    ability to mount foreign file systems. It certainly should be possible
    to do what you suggest. But the "hooking" might be somewhat
    complicated. Ideally, once mounted, a foreign file system should not
    appear to programs or the user to be different from a native file
    system. From outside it looks simple. On the inside it is not so
    simple.

    > I would have also thought this would be of interest for teaching
    > purposes too... I'm sure there are many note worthy issues,
    > particularly w.r.t. NFS and file locking.


    Agreed. But could this fit into a semester course, or into the
    textbook for such a course? My guess is, that if such features were
    added to Minix and I were working on creating an OSDI 4th edition
    text, I would want to leave the foreign file system extensions out of
    the "book version" of Minix. We have had to do this kind of thing on
    many occasions already. For example, if you look at the source for the
    book version of Minix 3 published in the new OSDI 3rd edition, you
    will see that the files drivers/tty/pty.c and src/drivers/tty/rs232.c
    are not present -- pseudoterminals and serial lines are not part of
    the book version of Minix. Another example can be seen in
    src/drivers/at_wini.c -- the full Minix release has a lot of code to
    support reading CD-ROMs, but the book version was simplified by
    leaving this out.

    I don't want to discourage anyone from doing what you suggest. If I
    were teaching an OS course using Minix and had an Honors or
    Independent Study student looking for a project, foreign file support
    would be a good possibility. I'd still suggest doing a standalone
    xxdir/xxread/xxwrite utility for file system xx as a first step, but
    once the basic problems of access were solved, mounting an xx
    filesystem on Minix would be a logical next project.

    --
    +----------------------------------+
    | Albert S. Woodhull |
    | awoodhull@hampshire.edu |
    | http://minix1.woodhull.com/asw/ |
    +----------------------------------+
    The idea is to die young as late as possible.

  8. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    (Getting off-topic)

    awoodhull@hampshire.edu wrote:
    > Agreed. But could this fit into a semester course, or into the
    > textbook for such a course? My guess is, that if such features were
    > added to Minix and I were working on creating an OSDI 4th edition
    > text, I would want to leave the foreign file system extensions out of
    > the "book version" of Minix. We have had to do this kind of thing on
    > many occasions already. For example, if you look at the source for the
    > book version of Minix 3 published in the new OSDI 3rd edition, you
    > will see that the files drivers/tty/pty.c and src/drivers/tty/rs232.c
    > are not present -- pseudoterminals and serial lines are not part of


    Speaking as someone who would buy such text books for self learning or
    curiosity, its disappointing to hear of omissions from the book. I
    bought the first Minix book way back when to study on my own and I would
    not have if I had known it omitted topics.

    I'm the sort of person that would want such a book to reflect what I
    download on-line as much as possible. As a teacher, I'd just simply skip
    certain chapters that are beyond the scope of the course, but then I'd
    expect to have two or more courses that span the whole subject matter,
    not just one.

    I think its a disservice to those outside your realm of teaching to who
    are interested in studying on their own with the aid of a text book as
    much as possible. Maybe two editions of the book - one for teaching, one
    more complete for the public? Don't like the idea of forking, but
    completeness I think is important (and maybe fewer code listings in the
    book in favour of on-line copies).

    Anyway. I digress.

    > the book version of Minix. Another example can be seen in
    > src/drivers/at_wini.c -- the full Minix release has a lot of code to
    > support reading CD-ROMs, but the book version was simplified by
    > leaving this out.


    :-(

    --
    Anthony C Howe Skype: SirWumpus SnertSoft
    +33 6 11 89 73 78 AIM: SirWumpus Sendmail Milter Solutions
    http://www.snert.com/ ICQ: 7116561 http://www.snertsoft.com/

  9. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    On Wed, 31 May 2006 16:16:38 -0400, awoodhull wrote:
    > I was being cautious when I said Minix possibly will never have the
    > ability to mount foreign file systems. It certainly should be possible
    > to do what you suggest. But the "hooking" might be somewhat
    > complicated. Ideally, once mounted, a foreign file system should not
    > appear to programs or the user to be different from a native file
    > system. From outside it looks simple. On the inside it is not so
    > simple.


    I actually asked ast in a private mail a few weeks ago whether there would
    be support for a VFS and here's the reply:

    On Mon, 2006-05-15 at 20:11 +0000, Andy Tanenbaum wrote:
    > We are looking at a VFS, but my initial inclination is not to
    > support files systems that are not "UNIX-like" due to the complexity.
    > What would be really nice, now that we have X, would be a graphical
    > program for copying from a CD to the native file system. It could
    > display the CD on the left and the native file system on the right
    > and allow you to select a file and copy it. I think that would be
    > good enough for most people and much simpler.


    [I sent back a reply saying the following:
    On Mon, 2006-05-15 at 20:28 +0100, Sitsofe Wheeler wrote:
    > Certainly there's evidence that backs that up (userland VFS is popular
    > in desktops like GNOME and KDE for network FSes like samba). I guess I
    > hoped a CD FS would be good fit for a microkernel but obviously I don't
    > know the amount of work it would take to implement yet (hey my C could
    > do with the exercise...) and make transferring files at the command line
    > easier.

    ]

    ast followed up with this:
    On Mon, 2006-05-15 at 21:35 +0000, Andy Tanenbaum wrote:
    > As to VFS, I am trying to avoid bloat. I think the only thing anyone actually
    > does with a CD is copy files from it (or burn files to it). I don't think
    > there is a lot of demand for mounting them, really, just a better way to read
    > them.


    This is fairly consistent with what asw was saying. It won't be done for
    bloat and complexity issues.

    (Just an aside - if the book were any bigger I doubt I would get to the
    end of it. I've been reading it in my spare time since February and I'm up
    to P237 so far. Perhaps I should post errata queries to the list as I'm
    progressing...)


  10. Re: Reading Windows 2000 partition from Windows

    In article ,
    Sitsofe Wheeler wrote:
    >On Mon, 2006-05-15 at 20:11 +0000, Andy Tanenbaum wrote:
    >> We are looking at a VFS, but my initial inclination is not to
    >> support files systems that are not "UNIX-like" due to the complexity.


    >ast followed up with this:
    >On Mon, 2006-05-15 at 21:35 +0000, Andy Tanenbaum wrote:
    >> As to VFS, I am trying to avoid bloat. I think the only thing anyone actually
    >> does with a CD is copy files from it (or burn files to it). I don't think
    >> there is a lot of demand for mounting them, really, just a better way to read
    >> them.

    >
    >This is fairly consistent with what asw was saying. It won't be done for
    >bloat and complexity issues.


    There is a good chance that (when done properly) the kind of VFS Andy
    Tanenbaum is talking about will also allow filesystem implementations for
    CD-ROMs, DOS, WinNT, etc. You do a lot of things without special hooks
    in the VFS interface.


    --
    That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
    could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
    by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
    -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

+ Reply to Thread