Microsoft brand is in deep decline - Microsoft Windows

This is a discussion on Microsoft brand is in deep decline - Microsoft Windows ; The Natural Philosopher wrote: > Colin Wilson wrote: > >>>> M$ will never catch the iPod. >>> >>> Who wants to? >> >> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to. > > well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, ...

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Thread: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

  1. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline, but Linux is on the rise

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    > Colin Wilson wrote:
    >
    >>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>
    >>> Who wants to?

    >>
    >> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.

    >
    > well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the toy
    > market versus a stable application platform for professional
    > users.
    >
    > I,,e, 'home entertainment centers' 'portable entertainment
    > centres' and 'machines that actually allow 3rd party apps to
    > run, and do so stably and reliably'
    >
    > Neither Microsoft nor apple are really concentrating on the
    > latter, are they?


    One thing that is little spoken of is through its OS efforts,
    Microsoft killed innovation. I won't say early on it was
    intentionally done, because I think that would be reading a
    little too much into Monday morning quarterbacking.

    In the early 1980's, there was a booming home computer market.

    Business PC's were expensive, toy makers and electronic
    manufacturers concentrated on bringing computing power to the
    consumer.

    What one could buy for $4K in 1980's currency could buy for
    1/10th that, a home computer. Yes, they were slower, loaded from
    cassette tape for mass storage.

    However, people were learning how to program in BASIC, which was
    their native operating system. Much of that was through
    Microsoft BASIC, although some had other variants.

    Even small businesses were using home computing software to make
    things more efficient, because limited computing and data bases
    made sense over manual methods.

    Trolls rant about the amateurishness of some Linux applications.
    There was a thriving effort called freeware and shareware with
    home computers, which spilled into MS-DOS.

    The creation of the universal business PC called IBM PC clone, an
    Intel model was an open, not proprietary hardware model. With
    the creation of Microsoft MS-DOS at a reasonable price back then
    allowed one for a fraction of the cost of an IBM genuine article,
    now have business class computing power.

    That open hardware standard did alot to propel computing power
    into novice hands. There continued a lot of grass roots
    developments using GWBASIC. First iterations of Windows, the 3.x
    versions still retained GWBASIC because it was a part of the
    MS-DOS operating system.

    Reasonable cost software tools through 3rd parties like Borland,
    allowed software development to continue.

    There were computing clubs and cottage software industries abounding.

    Then something strange happened with Windows 95 and later
    variants. The very tools that allowed grass roots software
    developments evaporated. BASIC and debugging tools evaporated
    from the OS. This basically killed individual software effort
    and took software development out of the hands of the user.

    It was in essence, the dummy down of the populace. Now, software
    development tools were only for the professional at a substantial
    cost.

    Over time what has evolved is yes, we have professionally written
    applications and games that mimic the best simulators, which were
    once limited to aerospace companies and flight schools that could
    afford them.

    However, what was lost were the learning experiences into the
    operating system (spell proprietary - "no see, no touch"). The
    home user has become an applications rookie and games player.

    I am happy to report that Linux and other efforts such as Free
    BSD bring back the tools to enable grass roots developments once
    again.

    Whereas we had the open hardware model, the IBM PC clone, now we
    have the open software model.

    Linux has available to it all the software tools to make it an
    invariable learning laboratory, as well as an efficient platform
    for launching professionally written applications AND despite of
    troll rants, professionally written games.

    OpenOffice and its commercial offering StarOffice ARE
    professionally written. I was impressed that it was able to open
    a password protected Microsoft office Word file I had.

    This is why it is important that efforts such as OLPC remain as a
    Linux OS software effort. Children again have opportunities as
    they had with the home computers 28 years ago, to explore the
    operating system, write their own applications and learn about
    data bases.

    That is more valuable than learning to use proprietary applications.

    The world once again needs to have available to it the software
    tools to develop younger minds prior to college, to learn
    software development.

    That encompasses more that just Visual BASIC. May the rants begin.

    --
    HPT

  2. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Baho Utot wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:50:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >
    >> Colin Wilson wrote:
    >>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>> Who wants to?
    >>> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.

    >> well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the toy market
    >> versus a stable application platform for professional users.
    >>

    >
    > It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows(what ever).
    >

    Well it ought to have done, but it didn't. The majority of professional
    applications beyond the WP/spreadsheet/database/email/browser type of
    stuff stayed with windows.

    Its no use proclaiming that windows is a toy. I know that, you know
    that, we all know that. The real issue is how to persuade all those 3rd
    party applications writers to port their applications to a real
    operating system.

    RedHat tried, but its not been a conspicuous success.

    And to an extent the open source nature of Linux, with the whole shebang
    being a rapidly moving target of a dozen different distros, makes it far
    far harder for application developers to nail their colours exactly on
    the one mast. There are more than one to nail it too. Then add in all
    the window managers..and you start to see the problems.

    Windos great strength was never that it was any good technically. It
    never was, but it did one thing right: It set a standard. If you got
    your code working with windows it would work pretty much n any PC for
    the next few years. In a more or less predictable way.


    I don't know what the answer to that is, or should be, but that is the
    *problem*, for sure.

    The day I can e.g. get a box from a vendor labeled 'GrootSplat
    interactive development tool for aerodynamic modelling' with the magic
    words underneath :-

    'Runs on all Linux distros'

    will be the day I scrub XP off the PC hard drive..as it were.

    Perhaps if the Linux community spent less time on fancy window managers,
    and more tome developing and SELLING API's that mimicked the windows
    API, that would happen.

    Applications sell operating systems. Not the other way around.

    Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
    code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
    another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
    cross platform interoperability with broswers.

    But alas, not with API's. I dont want to run windows in a box on Linux.
    I want to run current windows only programs on linux natively.

    Crack that nut and Microsoft is gone from the professional and office
    evironment forever.






  3. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Baho Utot wrote:
    > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >> Colin Wilson wrote:
    >>
    >>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>>
    >>>> Who wants to?
    >>>
    >>> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.

    >>
    >> well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the
    >> toy market versus a stable application platform for
    >> professional users.

    >
    > It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows
    > (what ever).


    Do you mean the large fork and spoon in the dining room? :-)

    That effort is bangsit compared to Linux, which is bangsit
    opposite. Linux adds flavour, like Bagoong Alamang. It is the
    Ampalaya, the Patis of life. :-)

    --
    HPT

  4. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Ignoramus18579 writes:

    > On 2008-03-30, Hadron wrote:
    >> Ignoramus10476 writes:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
    >>>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
    >>>>>
    >>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>>
    >>>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    >>>> about?
    >>>
    >>> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
    >>> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
    >>> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks

    >>
    >> Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
    >> compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
    >> use it.

    >
    > Why, I saw it working.


    So you content that not using such devices, and seeing one such device
    in action gives you the skill set and knowledge with which to judge it
    against the market leader?

    >
    >>> like a USB drive to the host computer.

    >>
    >> Aha. So basic connectivity.

    >
    > Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.
    >
    > i


    Huh? Are you suggesting you can not do that with an iPod?

    Google it up.


    And thanks for confirming my suspicions.

    --
    Thinking is dangerous. It leads to ideas.
    -- Seen on #Debian

  5. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:44:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    [putolin]

    > Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
    > code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
    > another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
    > cross platform interoperability with broswers.
    >


    Yea sure,
    Why doesn't the current crop of games run on < WinXp ?
    Why doesn't Solidworks work on Vista?

    > But alas, not with API's. I dont want to run windows in a box on Linux.
    > I want to run current windows only programs on linux natively.


    Wine works well for me

    >
    > Crack that nut and Microsoft is gone from the professional and office
    > evironment forever.



    --
    Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

  6. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:23:54 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > Ignoramus18579 writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-03-30, Hadron wrote:
    >>> Ignoramus10476 writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
    >>>>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    >>>>> about?
    >>>>
    >>>> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
    >>>> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
    >>>> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
    >>>
    >>> Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
    >>> compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
    >>> use it.

    >>
    >> Why, I saw it working.

    >
    > So you content that not using such devices, and seeing one such device
    > in action gives you the skill set and knowledge with which to judge it
    > against the market leader?
    >
    >>
    >>>> like a USB drive to the host computer.
    >>>
    >>> Aha. So basic connectivity.

    >>
    >> Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.
    >>
    >> i

    >
    > Huh? Are you suggesting you can not do that with an iPod?
    >
    > Google it up.
    >
    >
    > And thanks for confirming my suspicions.


    I don't particularly like iTunes or the software included with the iPod, at
    least the Windows versions of it and from my last experience a year ago
    which could possibly be dated.
    However, nothing can touch the iPod for support, third party add ons, etc.

    It's not even close.

    The iPod, like the iPhone is the gadget to beat.
    Some have come close, none have topped it.

    I have a Creative Zen Vision M.
    Specs wise it blew away the iPods that were out at the time.
    Better screen rez.
    Larger disk.
    FM radio.
    Better Video.
    Very nice interface which is as good as the iPod, but different.
    You name it and the Zen was better and it cost a LOT less as well.
    At the time....

    FWIW the Zen turned out to be a huge POS.
    It has known firmware bugs, lockups etc.

    I should have known because Creative is a suck ass company but I got fooled
    because a lot of people have these things and it cost less.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  7. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    >> It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows(what ever).
    >>

    > Well it ought to have done, but it didn't. The majority of professional
    > applications beyond the WP/spreadsheet/database/email/browser type of
    > stuff stayed with windows.


    Not around here! Audio recording, video editing, and various animation
    programmes /cannot/ be "run" on Windoze. The film, advertising and TV
    companies /all/ run Linux machines for these purposes.

    > Its no use proclaiming that windows is a toy. I know that, you know
    > that, we all know that. The real issue is how to persuade all those 3rd
    > party applications writers to port their applications to a real
    > operating system.


    The only applications not fully covered by Linux these days are games.

    > RedHat tried, but its not been a conspicuous success.
    >
    > And to an extent the open source nature of Linux, with the whole shebang
    > being a rapidly moving target of a dozen different distros, makes it far
    > far harder for application developers to nail their colours exactly on
    > the one mast. There are more than one to nail it too. Then add in all
    > the window managers..and you start to see the problems.


    It's less of a problem than you might imagine.

    > Windos great strength was never that it was any good technically. It
    > never was, but it did one thing right: It set a standard. If you got
    > your code working with windows it would work pretty much n any PC for
    > the next few years. In a more or less predictable way.


    That might have been true in the past, but "Vista" deliberately set out to
    break compatibility with some products, and the forthcoming Windoze 7 will
    deliberately have *no* backward compatibility whatsoever. The poor fools
    who've "invested" in MS Office and all the rest of their rubbish-ware will
    have to buy all their applications all over again...

    > I don't know what the answer to that is, or should be, but that is the
    > *problem*, for sure.


    Not really.

    > The day I can e.g. get a box from a vendor labeled 'GrootSplat
    > interactive development tool for aerodynamic modelling' with the magic
    > words underneath :-
    >
    > 'Runs on all Linux distros'
    >
    > will be the day I scrub XP off the PC hard drive..as it were.


    It's getting there, but you won't have to /buy/ the application - just
    download the .deb or .rpm as appropriate and automatically install it.

    > Perhaps if the Linux community spent less time on fancy window managers,
    > and more tome developing and SELLING API's that mimicked the windows
    > API, that would happen.


    No. You've missed the point. There are (probably) three significant
    competing Linux desktops (xfce, Gnome and kde). Kde and Gnome take great
    pains to make applications run on either desktop. There's little to choose
    between the big two.

    > Applications sell operating systems. Not the other way around.


    Sometimes. Security, stability and reliability "sell" Linux in the web
    server market!

    > Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
    > code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
    > another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
    > cross platform interoperability with broswers.
    >
    > But alas, not with API's. I dont want to run windows in a box on Linux.


    Why not? It's quite fun to "run" Windoze XP in a window on my desktop. I
    tried "Internet Explorer" and saw how quickly it was compromised...

    > I want to run current windows only programs on linux natively.


    Why. Most of them are very poorly written, and there are (often) better OS
    equivalents available.

    > Crack that nut and Microsoft is gone from the professional and office
    > evironment forever.


    They already are gone in many companies. The home users just need to catch
    up...

    C.


  8. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Christopher Hunter writes:

    > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >
    >>> It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows(what ever).
    >>>

    >> Well it ought to have done, but it didn't. The majority of professional
    >> applications beyond the WP/spreadsheet/database/email/browser type of
    >> stuff stayed with windows.

    >
    > Not around here! Audio recording, video editing, and various animation
    > programmes /cannot/ be "run" on Windoze. The film, advertising and TV
    > companies /all/ run Linux machines for these purposes.
    >
    >> Its no use proclaiming that windows is a toy. I know that, you know
    >> that, we all know that. The real issue is how to persuade all those 3rd
    >> party applications writers to port their applications to a real
    >> operating system.

    >
    > The only applications not fully covered by Linux these days are games.


    Enough of your lies and posturing already.

  9. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > The iPod, like the iPhone is the gadget to beat.
    > Some have come close, none have topped it.


    Depends on what you want.

    Apple apparently has a patent on the "multi-touch"
    and as usual, they do wonders on the user interface.

    But, iPhone doesn't have GPS and its algorithm for trying
    to simulate it with WiFi and cell tower triangulation
    often gets VERY wrong answers.

    And its cell access is GSM only (or do I have that backward?)

    And every time someone hacks the lock that prevents using
    other than Apple's chosen carrier, Apple offers a firmware
    "upgrade" that (BTW) makes the hack not work.

    Neo 1973 had GPS, higher-res display, and a few other things
    iPhone didn't, at a lower price. Plus all the software was
    open source, AND they released CAD files for ALL of the hardware.
    But it had almost NO memory by today's standards.

    http://www.openmoko.com/products-index.html

    The Helio Ocean was kind of cool, too.

    Depends on what you want.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    I've noticed lately that the paranoid fear of computers becoming
    intelligent and taking over the world has almost entirely disappeared
    from the common culture. Near as I can tell, this coincides with
    the release of MS-DOS.
    -- Larry DeLuca

  10. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    > The day I can e.g. get a box from a vendor labeled 'GrootSplat
    > interactive development tool for aerodynamic modelling' with the magic
    > words underneath :-
    >
    > 'Runs on all Linux distros'
    >
    > will be the day I scrub XP off the PC hard drive..as it were.


    Perhaps I'd feel differently if I had ever needed an IDT for AM.
    But everything I have needed or thought I needed for my Mac OS
    (with a couple of exceptions), I've downloaded from some Linux
    site and installed. Only two such items failed to compile the
    first try and both were trivial fixes. One was to add a NULL
    parameter to two function calls (or I could have rolled Berkeley
    DB back in time from 4.5 to 3.2). The other only needed me to
    install something else I had incorrectly assumed I already had.

    > Perhaps if the Linux community spent less time on fancy window managers,
    > and more tome developing and SELLING API's that mimicked the windows
    > API, that would happen.
    >
    > Applications sell operating systems. Not the other way around.
    >
    > Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
    > code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
    > another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
    > cross platform interoperability with broswers.


    And Cocoa on Mac OS X is another.

    But a LOT of stuff 'runs on all Linux distros'

    --
    Wes Groleau

    I've noticed lately that the paranoid fear of computers becoming
    intelligent and taking over the world has almost entirely disappeared
    from the common culture. Near as I can tell, this coincides with
    the release of MS-DOS.
    -- Larry DeLuca

  11. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On 2008-03-30, Hadron wrote:
    > Ignoramus18579 writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-03-30, Hadron wrote:
    >>> Ignoramus10476 writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
    >>>>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    >>>>> about?
    >>>>
    >>>> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
    >>>> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
    >>>> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
    >>>
    >>> Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
    >>> compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
    >>> use it.

    >>
    >> Why, I saw it working.

    >
    > So you content that not using such devices, and seeing one such device
    > in action gives you the skill set and knowledge with which to judge it
    > against the market leader?


    All I could see, is that it works well. My wife uses it for a few
    hours every day.

    I did not claim that it works better than any other device. You made
    that up. It is definitely very computer friendly with its usb storage
    functionality. That means that you can go to any friend and copy their
    pirated videos without asking them to install any spyware.

    i

    >>
    >>>> like a USB drive to the host computer.
    >>>
    >>> Aha. So basic connectivity.

    >>
    >> Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.
    >>
    >> i

    >
    > Huh? Are you suggesting you can not do that with an iPod?
    >
    > Google it up.


    http://people.csail.mit.edu/adonovan/hacks/ipod.html

    I may have missed the latest developments with this ipod.

    i

    >
    > And thanks for confirming my suspicions.
    >


  12. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Ignoramus18579 writes:

    > On 2008-03-30, Hadron wrote:
    >> Ignoramus18579 writes:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-03-30, Hadron wrote:
    >>>> Ignoramus10476 writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
    >>>>>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    >>>>>> about?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
    >>>>> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
    >>>>> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
    >>>>
    >>>> Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
    >>>> compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
    >>>> use it.
    >>>
    >>> Why, I saw it working.

    >>
    >> So you content that not using such devices, and seeing one such device
    >> in action gives you the skill set and knowledge with which to judge it
    >> against the market leader?

    >
    > All I could see, is that it works well. My wife uses it for a few
    > hours every day.


    You said it works "very well". To make that judgement you need to know
    what you are talking about. By your own words you admit you dont.

    If you said "it works well enough from what I can see" fair enough - but
    in the context of iPods you are saying this thing (I never heard of it)
    works "very well". Well thats a bit of a comparison IMO.
    >
    > I did not claim that it works better than any other device. You made
    > that up. It is definitely very computer friendly with its usb storage
    > functionality. That means that you can go to any friend and copy their
    > pirated videos without asking them to install any spyware.
    >
    > i


    What spyware? What are you talking about? You can use the iPods as
    storage devices too you know.

    >
    >>>
    >>>>> like a USB drive to the host computer.
    >>>>
    >>>> Aha. So basic connectivity.
    >>>
    >>> Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.
    >>>
    >>> i

    >>
    >> Huh? Are you suggesting you can not do that with an iPod?
    >>
    >> Google it up.

    >
    > http://people.csail.mit.edu/adonovan/hacks/ipod.html
    >
    > I may have missed the latest developments with this ipod.
    >
    > i


    You might, with all due respect, simply not know what you are talking
    about. You have been able to store things on iPods since before the dawn
    of time.....

  13. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:44:09 +0000, Wes Groleau wrote:

    > But a LOT of stuff 'runs on all Linux distros'


    Like everything in /bin and /sbin, and /usr/bin and /usr/sbin, and
    /usr/share . . . .

    Isn't strange how variety and user choice is a fault, to the Microsoft
    flacks?

    And, yes, they even attack the open-source nature of most of the Linux
    software, as another fault . . . .

    At least we know now how American politics is made possible.

    --

    Kill. Kill! KILL!

    < comp.os.linux.misc

    http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz


  14. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    ____/ Colin Wilson on Sunday 30 March 2008 12:48 : \____

    >> > M$ will never catch the iPod.

    >> Who wants to?

    >
    > Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.


    The iPod is a bridge for Apple to enter mobile device, which are becoming
    increasingly dominant. It's worth emphasising that due to Vista's bloat,
    Microsoft has recently begun create a Windows Mobile derivative for larger
    devices. It all just shows you how far behind Microsoft has fallen wrt to
    Symbian, Linux and even Apple (the iPhone is just the beginning).

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Microsoft loves competition.
    "I’m thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with anti-Linux. ...
    they should do a delicate dance"
    --Joachim Kempin, Microsoft OEM Chief

  15. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On 2008-03-30, Wes Groleau wrote:
    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> The iPod, like the iPhone is the gadget to beat.
    >> Some have come close, none have topped it.

    >
    > Depends on what you want.
    >
    > Apple apparently has a patent on the "multi-touch"
    > and as usual, they do wonders on the user interface.
    >
    > But, iPhone doesn't have GPS and its algorithm for trying
    > to simulate it with WiFi and cell tower triangulation
    > often gets VERY wrong answers.
    >
    > And its cell access is GSM only (or do I have that backward?)
    >
    > And every time someone hacks the lock that prevents using
    > other than Apple's chosen carrier, Apple offers a firmware
    > "upgrade" that (BTW) makes the hack not work.
    >
    > Neo 1973 had GPS, higher-res display, and a few other things
    > iPhone didn't, at a lower price. Plus all the software was
    > open source, AND they released CAD files for ALL of the hardware.
    > But it had almost NO memory by today's standards.
    >
    > http://www.openmoko.com/products-index.html


    It is still in beta, though. Has been so in a while.

    i

    >
    > The Helio Ocean was kind of cool, too.
    >
    > Depends on what you want.
    >


  16. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    > You might, with all due respect, simply not know what you are talking
    > about. You have been able to store things on iPods since before the dawn
    > of time.....


    So let's say that I insert that iPod into a Linux computer and it sees
    it as a USB device. If I copy MP3s on it, will I be able to play them?

    i

  17. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Microsoft OS is simple, it gets people using computers.

    Then they discover *nix and what it can do. Having used a simple OS for so
    long, they feel confident to broaden their horizons, but they're not usually
    ready. But still, the seed is there.



  18. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline


    "Ignoramus17370" wrote in message
    news:d5qdnWOAYaiNUXDanZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@giganews.com ...
    > http://news.yahoo.com/s/macworld/200...insharpdecline
    >
    > Microsoft's brand power has been in sharp decline over the past four
    > years, an indication the company is losing credibility and mindshare
    > with U.S. business users, according to a recent study by market
    > research firm CoreBrand.
    > ADVERTISEMENT
    >
    > According to the CoreBrand Power 100 2007 study, which polled about
    > 12,000 U.S. business decision-makers, Microsoft dropped from number 12
    > in the ranking of the most powerful U.S. company brands in 2004 to
    > number 59 last year. In 1996, the company ranked number 1 in brand
    > power among 1,200 top companies in about 50 industries, said James
    > Gregory, CEO of CoreBrand.
    >
    > CoreBrand measures brand power using four criteria. It first rates the
    > familiarity of a company's brand. Once a company has a certain level
    > of familiarity, they are ranked according to three "attributes of
    > favorability": overall reputation, perception of management and
    > investment potential, Gregory said. While Microsoft's brand is still
    > eminently recognizable, the company is declining in all three
    > favorable attributes, he said.
    >
    > Gregory said that a decline in and of itself is not indicative that a
    > company is losing its mindshare or reputation among
    > customers. However, what's significant in Microsoft's case is that the
    > decline has been consistent over a number of years, and has plunged
    > dramatically in a brief time.
    >
    > "When you see something decline with increasing velocity, it's a
    > concern," he said.
    >
    > Among its peers in the category of Computers, Peripherals and Computer
    > Software, Microsoft is second to IBM in brand power, with Toshiba a
    > close third, Gregory said. If Microsoft's downward trend continues,
    > Toshiba could pass it in brand power next year, he said.
    >
    > Gregory could only speculate as to why Microsoft's reputation has been
    > declining, since his firm does not ask people that specific
    > question. He said the "underwhelming" response to Windows Vista might
    > be one reason, and Apple's clever "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" advertising
    > campaign -- which paints Windows in an unfavorable light -- may be
    > another.
    >
    > IBM suffered a "much faster and more severe" decline in brand power in
    > the early 1990s, Gregory said, and it took them 10 years to rebuild
    > the brand's reputation. To stage a similar turnaround, Microsoft must
    > have a clearer vision of the direction in which the company is headed
    > and put forth leaders that people can trust to articulate that vision,
    > he said.
    >
    > Microsoft, which has been diversifying its business beyond packaged
    > software in the past several years, has struggled to articulate how
    > the many facets of its business -- software, entertainment and online
    > among them -- show a cohesive business plan. The company has been
    > trying to clarify at least one of those strategies -- its online
    > advertising business -- with new services and a bid to purchase
    > Yahoo. However, Gregory suggested it may take more than that to raise
    > the perception of its brand.


    Oh yes, Microsoft is doing so terribly. That's why Linux has a whopping .67
    percent market share. Try thinking for yourself for once you ignoramus



  19. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    kmbfhaya wrote:

    >
    > Oh yes, Microsoft is doing so terribly. That's why Linux has a whopping
    > .67 percent market share.


    Yes Mr. Goebbels - repeat a lie often enough and people will start to
    believe it.

    I guess we've found your home page ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

    Cheers.

    --
    The world can't afford the rich.

    Q: What OS is built for lusers?
    A: Which one requires running lusermgr.msc to create them?

    Francis (Frank) adds a new "gadget" to his Vista box ...
    Download it here: http://tinyurl.com/2hnof6



  20. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, NoStop

    wrote
    on Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:03:53 -0700
    :
    > kmbfhaya wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Oh yes, Microsoft is doing so terribly. That's why Linux has a whopping
    >> .67 percent market share.

    >
    > Yes Mr. Goebbels - repeat a lie often enough and people will start to
    > believe it.
    >
    > I guess we've found your home page ...
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
    >
    > Cheers.
    >


    I'll admit to wonder if we can ever get accurate numbers,
    but the sad truth is that Linux does not command a really
    sizable portion of the desktop market, at least officially.
    Of course Linux has pretty much taken over the Unix server
    market, though Windows shows signs of viciously fighting
    back -- if one can call GoDaddy-type deals "fighting",
    as opposed to sleazing into the undergrowth like some sort
    of legless reptile.

    There's also a lot of dualboots and emulators out there,
    not to mention embedded devices, mobiles, and vendors
    hawking Linux-based desktops. (Dell is still among them,
    though as usual they're being relatively quiet about it.)

    And then there's the browser idiocy. HTTP/HTML never
    did get its purpose straight (is it stateless? stateful?
    secure? insecure?) and reliable identification of the OS
    of an incoming HTTP packet request is at best a good guess.
    Identification of the server OS from an HTTP server is
    also a good guess, especially with a proxy in the middle.

    One could easily have a Linux front end with Apache serving
    as a proxy for a FreeBSD application server (Java ajpv13),
    with a Microsoft C# SOAP-callable affair somewhere in
    the mix, and of course a backend database that could be
    anything at all. Which OS should Netcraft report?

    As for how well Microsoft is doing...Yahoo! is still
    reporting them as having $57B/year in raw revenue, $17B
    in profits, 79.20% in quarterly earnings growth (compared
    to the prior year), $22B in operating cash flow, and $14B
    in levered free cash flow. Glowingly good numbers.

    But I also remember Atari in the early 80's. It was a
    bloody price war -- and Commodore eventually died because
    of it.

    Could something like Atari's fall from grace and
    Commodore's death happen again? Dunno. We'll have to
    wait until early or mid May for updates, at least.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux. Because vaporware only goes so far.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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