Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!! - Microsoft Windows

This is a discussion on Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!! - Microsoft Windows ; On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:42:00 GMT, George Graves wrote: >It's really interesting, isn't it that this old, tubed analog gear >sounds so much better than today's hotest most technically advanced >solid-state digital? Me? I'm setting here listening to Colemam ...

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Thread: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

  1. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:42:00 GMT, George Graves wrote:


    >It's really interesting, isn't it that this old, tubed analog gear
    >sounds so much better than today's hotest most technically advanced
    >solid-state digital? Me? I'm setting here listening to Colemam Hawkins
    >on my J.A. Michelle GyroDeck/Audioquest PT-8 arm/Sumiko Blackbird MC
    >cartridge through my Audio Research SP-9 Mk II tube preamp and my pair
    >of VTL 140 tube monobloc power amps (set to the triode mode) and
    >eminating from my brand-new Martin-Logan 'Aeon i' hybrid electrostatic
    >loudspeakers. Mr. Hawkin's tenor saxophone, is, for all intents and
    >purposes, right here in the room with me. It doesn't get much better
    >than that (and the dry martini I'm sipping on as I listen and wait for
    >friends to come by so that we can go to dinner). Life is VERY good
    >indeed!


    A friend of mine is a big Martin-Logan fan and in fact he has a set of custom
    speaker units built into a loft in his home. They are connected to an Organ and
    from what I have heard are the next best thing to having an actual pipe organ in
    the room!

    Digital cannot compare to quality analog, it just can't and sadly today's
    equipment is mostly overpriced crap.

    In my project studio I run Crest as well as Crown amps but my favorite is an old
    Macintosh that sounds wonderful.

    In my studio I have JBL, KRK and Mackie monitors.

    In my living room I use BW 801's with a Crest Pro 9200 amplifier.

    flatfish+++

  2. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    In article ,
    George Graves wrote:

    > Doesn't matter. 'Sound and Vision' has no critical credibility. They
    > are a PR mouthpiece for mid-fi audio and home video manufacturers.
    > Now if he had said 'The Absolute Sound' or 'The Perfect Vision' or
    > 'High-Performance Review' or the British 'Hi-Fi News' or even
    > 'Stereophile' (which ain't the magazine it once was) his ramblings
    > might be worth investigating. As it is, don't bother.


    What about _The Sensible Sound_ or _The Audio Critic_ (if it is still
    around, that is)?

    --
    Never play strip tarot.

  3. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    John wrote:

    > John Rosado wrote:
    >
    >>If everyone would take a quick moment to send Wal-Mart's burgeoning
    >>music store an email to JUST SAY NO TO MICROSOFT's WMA Format!

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Why not send an email to Apple and ask for WMA for iPod. It is superior sounding. Why not demand the best sound quality from
    > Apple?
    >
    >


    My hearing is not so great anymore, but I can tell WMA does not sound
    better than MP3 which does not sound better than uncompressed audio.


  4. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    John wrote:

    > Michelle Steiner wrote:
    >
    >>In article ,
    >> "John" wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Why not send an email to Apple and ask for WMA for iPod. It is
    >>>superior sounding. Why not demand the best sound quality from Apple?

    >>
    >>We already have the best sound quality from Apple. Why should Apple
    >>pay lots of money to MickeySoft for inferior quality?
    >>
    >>BTW, how are your diapers?

    >
    >
    >
    > Bull****!! WMA SOUNDS BETTER.
    >
    >


    Say John, have you had a hearing test lately?


  5. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    Bill Leeper wrote:
    > John wrote:
    >
    >> Michelle Steiner wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article ,
    >>> "John" wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Why not send an email to Apple and ask for WMA for iPod. It is
    >>>> superior sounding. Why not demand the best sound quality from
    >>>> Apple?
    >>>
    >>> We already have the best sound quality from Apple. Why should Apple
    >>> pay lots of money to MickeySoft for inferior quality?
    >>>
    >>> BTW, how are your diapers?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Bull****!! WMA SOUNDS BETTER.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Say John, have you had a hearing test lately?


    Yes I had one last year. Excellent results.



  6. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    R. Tang wrote:
    > That might have been the case, but you confirmed it for me.
    > Somebody who knows what they're talking about could cite volume and verse,
    > and be able to summarize the salient points.


    I can't say anything about whether he knows what
    he's talking about, but I do know that _I_ have
    read over 7,000 books and magazines in my fifty years.

    I may only remember ten percent of what I've read,
    but I _certainly_ don't remember the location of every
    bit of that ten percent.

    --
    Wes Groleau
    Genealogical Lookups: http://groleau.freeshell.org/ref/lookups.html


  7. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!


    "Michelle Steiner" wrote in message
    news:michelle-3ED10E.16083019122003@news.west.cox.net...
    > In article ,
    > COLA Facts wrote:
    >
    > > >How does it compare to a two button mouse? Two button mice should
    > > >play WMA's, too.

    > >
    > > That would be a challenge for Apple and their users. They are still
    > > stuck in the single button mouse technology.

    >
    > Then how come my Intellimouse explorer (wireless) with four buttons
    > plus the wheel button, with horizontal and vertical scrolling works so
    > well on my iMac?
    >
    > Out of the box, Mac OS X recognizes left and right buttons plus the
    > vertical scroll wheel. With the MS driver for the mouse, the OS
    > recognizes all of the buttons and the horizontal scrolling.


    Cause Microsoft made it ;-)



  8. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    7up Fictions wrote:
    > That would be a challenge for Apple and their users.
    > They are still stuck in the single button mouse technology.


    Don't know about anyone else, but I've been using
    three buttons since I got my iMac.

    --
    Wes Groleau
    "Lewis's case for the existence of God is fallacious."
    "You mean like circular reasoning?"
    "He believes in God. Therefore, he's fallacious."


  9. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    Bill Leeper wrote:
    > My hearing is not so great anymore, but I can tell WMA does not sound
    > better than MP3 which does not sound better than uncompressed audio.


    Well, I got a perfect score on the Navy's
    aural discrimination test (for sonarmen)
    but that was thirty years ago.

    Recently I converted 550 Megabytes to
    50 Megabytes of MP3 (using iTunes) in order
    to e-mail it to someone.

    I could not tell the difference by ear.

    But that was speaking, not music.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    A pessimist says the glass is half empty.

    An optimist says the glass is half full.

    An engineer says somebody made the glass
    twice as big as it needed to be.


  10. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:53:45 -0800, Bill Leeper
    chose to bless us with the following wisdom:

    >John wrote:
    >
    >> John Rosado wrote:
    >>
    >>>If everyone would take a quick moment to send Wal-Mart's burgeoning
    >>>music store an email to JUST SAY NO TO MICROSOFT's WMA Format!

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Why not send an email to Apple and ask for WMA for iPod. It is superior sounding. Why not demand the best sound quality from
    >> Apple?
    >>
    >>

    >
    >My hearing is not so great anymore, but I can tell WMA does not sound
    >better than MP3 which does not sound better than uncompressed audio.


    Which takes us back to "My hearing is not so great anymore"





    --
    I got a sweater for Christmas last year. I wanted
    a screamer or a moaner, but I got a sweater.

    -Steven Wright

  11. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    In article ,
    "John" wrote:

    > John Rosado wrote:
    > > If everyone would take a quick moment to send Wal-Mart's burgeoning
    > > music store an email to JUST SAY NO TO MICROSOFT's WMA Format!

    >
    >
    >
    > Why not send an email to Apple and ask for WMA for iPod. It is superior
    > sounding. Why not demand the best sound quality from
    > Apple?
    >
    >


    About like how you think WMA is better than quicktime for video too.

    When cows fly.

    --
    Regards,
    JP
    "The measure of a man is what he will do while expecting
    that he will get nothing in return!"

  12. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    COLA Facts wrote in message news:...
    > On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:14:47 -0700, Snit
    > wrote:
    >
    > >"Matthew Russotto" wrote on 12/19/03 3:03 PM:
    > >
    > >> In article , John
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> John Rosado wrote:
    > >>>> If everyone would take a quick moment to send Wal-Mart's burgeoning
    > >>>> music store an email to JUST SAY NO TO MICROSOFT's WMA Format!
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> Why not send an email to Apple and ask for WMA for iPod. It is superior
    > >>> sounding. Why not demand the best sound quality from
    > >>> Apple?
    > >>
    > >> Because the iPod is smaller than a floppy drive.
    > >>

    > >How does it compare to a two button mouse? Two button mice should play
    > >WMA's, too.

    >
    > That would be a challenge for Apple and their users.
    > They are still stuck in the single button mouse technology.


    Damn... you actually made a valid point - but you still suck.

  13. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    In article ,
    Wes Groleau wrote:
    >R. Tang wrote:
    >> That might have been the case, but you confirmed it for me.
    >> Somebody who knows what they're talking about could cite volume and verse,
    >> and be able to summarize the salient points.

    >
    >I can't say anything about whether he knows what
    >he's talking about, but I do know that _I_ have
    >read over 7,000 books and magazines in my fifty years.
    >
    >I may only remember ten percent of what I've read,
    >but I _certainly_ don't remember the location of every
    >bit of that ten percent.


    Weeeelllppp.....I wouldn't either....except if I'm trying to argue
    a point, I generally try to look it up again and pin down. It avoids the
    embarassing situation that the source I cite doesn't says what I thought
    it did...and actually says the opposite.

    But that's just me.


    >
    >--
    >Wes Groleau
    >Genealogical Lookups: http://groleau.freeshell.org/ref/lookups.html
    >



    --
    -
    -Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
    - Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
    - http://www.aatrevue.com

  14. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    George Graves wrote:
    > In article
    > ,
    > Tim Adams wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In article ,
    >> "John" wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Michelle Steiner wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>In article ,
    >>>> "John" wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Why not send an email to Apple and ask for WMA for iPod. It is
    >>>>>superior sounding. Why not demand the best sound quality from Apple?
    >>>>
    >>>>We already have the best sound quality from Apple. Why should Apple
    >>>>pay lots of money to MickeySoft for inferior quality?
    >>>>
    >>>>BTW, how are your diapers?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Bull****!! WMA SOUNDS BETTER.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Only to people with tin ears like you.

    >
    >
    > Even if it did, it's like asking whether cow **** smells better than dog
    > ****. They're both still **** as are WMD and MP3.


    Cow **** smells better.


  15. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    In article , John Rosado
    wrote:

    > If everyone would take a quick moment to send Wal-Mart's burgeoning
    > music store an email to JUST SAY NO TO MICROSOFT's WMA Format!


    Why? Why point out the Achilles heel in their plan? I can't stand
    Wal-Mart. I'd love to see their tatty little music service go down in
    flames.

  16. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    In article ,
    flatfish+++@linuxmail.org wrote:

    > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:42:00 GMT, George Graves
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    > >It's really interesting, isn't it that this old, tubed analog gear
    > >sounds so much better than today's hotest most technically advanced
    > >solid-state digital? Me? I'm setting here listening to Colemam Hawkins
    > >on my J.A. Michelle GyroDeck/Audioquest PT-8 arm/Sumiko Blackbird MC
    > >cartridge through my Audio Research SP-9 Mk II tube preamp and my pair
    > >of VTL 140 tube monobloc power amps (set to the triode mode) and
    > >eminating from my brand-new Martin-Logan 'Aeon i' hybrid electrostatic
    > >loudspeakers. Mr. Hawkin's tenor saxophone, is, for all intents and
    > >purposes, right here in the room with me. It doesn't get much better
    > >than that (and the dry martini I'm sipping on as I listen and wait for
    > >friends to come by so that we can go to dinner). Life is VERY good
    > >indeed!

    >
    > A friend of mine is a big Martin-Logan fan and in fact he has a set of custom
    > speaker units built into a loft in his home. They are connected to an Organ
    > and
    > from what I have heard are the next best thing to having an actual pipe organ
    > in
    > the room!
    >
    > Digital cannot compare to quality analog, it just can't and sadly today's
    > equipment is mostly overpriced crap.


    Much of it is, yes. That Fisher receiver that you mentioned could just
    about be state-of-the-art with merely a change to modern low dielectric
    absorbtion capacitors in the signal path and a changeout of all the old
    carbon composition resistors for metal film units. I can't tell you how
    many pieces of older 1950's and 1960's tube gear that I have heard
    transformed with a handfull of modern passive components.

    > In my project studio I run Crest as well as Crown amps but my favorite is an
    > old
    > Macintosh that sounds wonderful.


    They do sound great (among the best output transformers EVER) and even
    better with the above referenced mod.

    > In my studio I have JBL, KRK and Mackie monitors.
    >
    > In my living room I use BW 801's with a Crest Pro 9200 amplifier.


    BMW 801s are very good.

    --
    George Graves
    ------------------
    "Knowledge is Good"
    Emile Faber -Founder, Faber College

  17. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    In article ,
    Michelle Steiner wrote:

    > In article ,
    > George Graves wrote:
    >
    > > Doesn't matter. 'Sound and Vision' has no critical credibility. They
    > > are a PR mouthpiece for mid-fi audio and home video manufacturers.
    > > Now if he had said 'The Absolute Sound' or 'The Perfect Vision' or
    > > 'High-Performance Review' or the British 'Hi-Fi News' or even
    > > 'Stereophile' (which ain't the magazine it once was) his ramblings
    > > might be worth investigating. As it is, don't bother.

    >
    > What about _The Sensible Sound_ or _The Audio Critic_ (if it is still
    > around, that is)?


    Haven't seen either in a while. The Audio Critic, I'm sure is gone.
    Dunno about Sensible sound. They were good mags though.

    --
    George Graves
    ------------------
    "Knowledge is Good"
    Emile Faber -Founder, Faber College

  18. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    In article <1dc7uvsdad5d5vf34pns3504mctp6ik0u4@4ax.com>,
    flatfish+++@linuxmail.org wrote:

    > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 01:54:42 GMT, George Graves
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    > >'Sound and Vision'? 'SOUND AND VISION'? Do you know who and what 'Sound
    > >and Vision' magazine is? They are "Stereo Review" renamed, and as such
    > >they have been the laughing stock of the audio world for at least 35
    > >years. They are NOTHING more than a PR mouthpiece for manufacturers.
    > >Their editorial policy is that one never says anything bad against
    > >advertisers and never give a piece of equipment a bad review.

    >
    > Stereo Review had some interesting stuff back in the 70's but like you say,
    > they
    > rarely said anything bad about the review units.
    > See below..
    >
    >
    > >"Of all the amplifiers I've ever tested, this was one of them." - Julian
    > >Hirsch, Stereo Review.

    >
    > I had the privilege of meeting Mr Hirsh once and I asked him why he never
    > trashed a product in Stereo Review and his answer was pretty simple.
    > If a product was *that bad* it was sent back to the manufacturer and the
    > review
    > never appeared in the mag.


    Yes, I knew Julian rather well. It was Stereo Review policy to never
    publish a bad review - which JH characterized as not meeting it's
    published specs when tested.

    > Mr. Hirsh truly believed that differences in audio quality could be
    > quantified, measured and explained by testing.


    Actually Julian believed were that GOOD, modern equipment had no sound
    of it's own.

    > In short if 2 pieces of equipment measured the same, they would sound the
    > same.



    But, of course, we know that's not true.

    > In some respects his theory has merit, but in others it doesn't hold water.
    > If I hit a A on a Steinway and then do the same on a Baldwin an measure the
    > overtones they will pretty much measure the same, yet they will sound
    > different to the human ear.


    True and for the same reason reason. The reason why two different amps
    (or two pianos) might measure identically and sound different is
    because we aren't measuring the right things. Frequency response,
    steady-state harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion do not
    tell the whole story. My friend Bob Carver once figured out a way to
    make two dissimilar amps sound the same using what he called a "null
    test" he would pump and identical white noise signal through two amps
    out of phase with one another, and then adjust the transfer curve of one
    until the summed outputs yielded a null (lowest possible signal. If the
    two amps are identical in every respect, the end result of summing two
    identical out-of-phase signals would be a perfect NOTHING - this is
    almost impossible to do, however). When he finished nulling the amps for
    a very low, almost inaudible and unmeasurable output, he managed to get
    one of his Carver solid-state amps to sound indinstiguishable from a
    Conrad-Johnson tube amp. Very eye opening.

    > Not the greatest example I know, but you get the idea.
    >
    > In closing when I was in high school/college back in the 70's and early 80's
    > I
    > worked in several super high end, snooty audio salons in NYC and the stories
    > I
    > could tell you would split your sides.


    I'll bet. I've been writing for audio journals for 20 years and I know
    most of the characters in the business. And I DO mean characters.

    > We were one of the first shops to get an ABX Comparator, which would keep the
    > levels of audio EXACT when switching from one system to another to compare.
    > For those that don't know, the louder system will ALWAYS sound better,
    > assuming both units are in the same class.
    >
    > We were selling Audio Research, Mark Levinson etc gear at prices that were in
    > the stratosphere and quite frankly most of us could not hear much, if any
    > difference between it and the run of the mill Marantz.


    > The difference was in the quality of the unit and the smoothness of the
    > controls. Also every unit was hand calibrated and as such there was a
    > consistent
    > quality control in place meaning the 1st unit sounded just as good as #9000.
    >
    > The same could not be said of the mass produced units.
    >
    > I saw people paying $4000.00 for a 35w tube amp whose components weren't
    > worth
    > $35.00 with the exception maybe of the output transformers.
    >
    > We used to call them "whales" and I had a regular clientele that would
    > upgrade
    > their units by the month or on schedule with StereoPhile magazine.
    >
    > Whenever one of the reviewers working for StereoPhile would give a unit a
    > great
    > review the "whales" would be lined up at the door the next day looking to
    > trade
    > up.
    >
    > I met a guy whose tube amps were completely encased in concrete to prevent
    > vibrations from interfering with the sound.
    >
    > He was one of the weirdest people I have ever met!


    Then you haven't met Ms. Enid Lumely!

    > Point is, that there is a point of diminishing returns but there will always
    > be people gullible to buy what the reviewers push.


    And some reviewers are really strange. They find things that nobody can
    possibly hear. I try to be honest in my reviews (after all, I was taught
    by the best- J. Gordon Holt) and I write only about performance
    characteristics that I'm sure that anybody (except Johhny-boy, that is)
    can replicate in their own listening environemt.

    > I went to a seminar given by AES once and they had a double blind test of
    > various speaker wire.
    > They had normal zip cord and they actually tossed in a set of automobile
    > jumper
    > cables as well.
    >
    > The jumper cables came out on top for best sound............................


    Largest gauge (12AWG, usually), most copper, lowest resistance per foot,
    I don't doubt it.

    > Take a look at the high end audio groups for some other prime examples.


    (rolls eyes) I'd rather not, if you don't mind. :->

    --
    George Graves
    ------------------
    "Knowledge is Good"
    Emile Faber -Founder, Faber College

  19. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    netguynw@yahoo.com (Cron) writes:

    > COLA Facts wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:14:47 -0700, Snit
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >"Matthew Russotto" wrote on
    > > >12/19/03 3:03 PM:
    > > >
    > > >How does it compare to a two button mouse? Two button mice should play
    > > >WMA's, too.

    > >
    > > That would be a challenge for Apple and their users. They are
    > > still stuck in the single button mouse technology.


    We are? Then why are there 5 buttons on my mouse?

  20. Re: Tell Wal-Mart - NO to WMA!!!

    Entity George Graves spoke thus:

    >> played through a Fisher tube amp (actually a
    >> Fisher 800 receiver) circa 1960 and it sounds glorious.
    >> I usually use my Stanton 881S or my Ortofon but I am slumming it today
    >>
    >> flatfish+++


    > It's really interesting, isn't it that this old, tubed analog gear
    > sounds so much better than today's hotest most technically advanced
    > solid-state digital?


    I'll say. I recently picked up an old tube amp from about 1955 at a garage
    sale. After some new capacitors and a used tube plugging in an old
    Stratocaster revealed the most amazing resonant sound I HAD EVER HEARD.

    WOW, I can never go back.

    -- Gnarlie
    http://www.Spectrumology.com
    Spectrumology is the science of chaos.



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