curious fact - Microsoft Windows

This is a discussion on curious fact - Microsoft Windows ; These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to India/China/Russia: 1. HP 2. IBM 3. Cisco 4. Sun As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free Software Foundation, which according to its publicly ...

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  1. curious fact

    These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    India/China/Russia:
    1. HP
    2. IBM
    3. Cisco
    4. Sun

    As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    1. HP
    2. IBM
    3. Cisco
    4. Sun

  2. Re: curious fact

    saintly1 wrote:

    > These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    > India/China/Russia:
    > 1. HP
    > 2. IBM
    > 3. Cisco
    > 4. Sun
    >
    > As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    > Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    > form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    > 1. HP
    > 2. IBM
    > 3. Cisco
    > 4. Sun

    Well the reason they match is because those 4 just happen to be in the list
    of sending jobs overseas. In that list are Dell, various banks, etc, etc,
    etc.

  3. Re: curious fact

    saintly1 wrote:
    > These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    > India/China/Russia:
    > 1. HP
    > 2. IBM
    > 3. Cisco
    > 4. Sun
    >
    > As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    > Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    > form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    > 1. HP
    > 2. IBM
    > 3. Cisco
    > 4. Sun


    Big deal. It's about time 3rd world countries cease being just that and
    catch up to us.

    --

    x = 5; // this increments x by 5

    "Your honor, here we see a piece of code that was copied verbatim from
    our copyrighted source, including the comment ..."



  4. Re: curious fact

    Really, a lot of mis-information in that these are no where near the
    largest exporters of jobs, accounting firms for example are accelerating
    their overseas employment. They don't support FSF. So what is your point?

    And this is inevitable process, but it needs to be managed, if it just
    happens, there will be massive economic dislocation in America, Britian,
    etc. Needed is just a little leaderhip...


    saintly1 wrote:
    > These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    > India/China/Russia:
    > 1. HP
    > 2. IBM
    > 3. Cisco
    > 4. Sun
    >
    > As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    > Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    > form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    > 1. HP
    > 2. IBM
    > 3. Cisco
    > 4. Sun



  5. Re: curious fact

    On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:56:07 -0400, BlaBla wrote:
    >
    >
    > saintly1 wrote:
    >> These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    >> India/China/Russia:
    >> 1. HP
    >> 2. IBM
    >> 3. Cisco
    >> 4. Sun
    >>
    >> As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    >> Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    >> form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    >> 1. HP
    >> 2. IBM
    >> 3. Cisco
    >> 4. Sun

    >
    > Big deal. It's about time 3rd world countries cease being just that and
    > catch up to us.
    >


    And if they choose to walk a path that the pathologically arrogant Americans
    disapprove of, then the Americans will send over their Gangsters-in-Uniform
    to teach them a lesson.

    Isn't Democracy grand?

    It brings what Americans call "Freedom" (the freedom to be like them) to
    anyone who survives their brutal attacks.

    --
    Alan C
    Posts with sigs of > 4 lines, or not in plain text, are dumped by my filters.

  6. Re: curious fact

    BlaBla wrote:
    > saintly1 wrote:
    >
    >>These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    >>India/China/Russia:
    >>1. HP
    >>2. IBM
    >>3. Cisco
    >>4. Sun


    [snip]

    > Big deal. It's about time 3rd world countries cease being just that and
    > catch up to us.


    They won't, because they're still working for extremely low wages. And
    the outsourcing thing is only temporary, I think, until the economy here
    picks up. Once the economy starts to improve, companies will still
    outsource, but I think not as much. I don't think any company really
    wants to send work overseas, but some have no other choice, because the
    economy is still mired in a slump.



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  7. Re: curious fact

    "Donn Miller" wrote in message
    news:3f90dd79$1_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
    > BlaBla wrote:
    > > saintly1 wrote:
    > >
    > >>These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    > >>India/China/Russia:
    > >>1. HP
    > >>2. IBM
    > >>3. Cisco
    > >>4. Sun

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > > Big deal. It's about time 3rd world countries cease being just that and
    > > catch up to us.

    >
    > They won't, because they're still working for extremely low wages. And
    > the outsourcing thing is only temporary, I think, until the economy here
    > picks up. Once the economy starts to improve, companies will still
    > outsource, but I think not as much. I don't think any company really
    > wants to send work overseas, but some have no other choice, because the
    > economy is still mired in a slump.
    >


    Companies wishing to stay in business will outsource, especially those where
    the competition has outsourced. Tek is becoming a commodity business at
    certain layers, and a lot of software is becoming hardware.
    Capital in the form of knowledge is extremly portable, and no one can corral
    or tame it.





    >
    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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    > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----




    --
    Welcome to Usenet. Wear a cup.
    ( Just wasting time here till my ISP refreshes the pr0n sites. )



  8. Re: curious fact

    begin ,
    wise@saintly.com (saintly1) writes:

    aka plinius@mail.com (flarkblark)

  9. Re: curious fact

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:11:42 +0200, Roy Culley wrote:

    > begin ,
    > wise@saintly.com (saintly1) writes:
    >
    > aka plinius@mail.com (flarkblark)


    bash-2.05b$ whois 68.32.178.156
    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. JUMPSTART-1 (NET-68-32-0-0-1)
    68.32.0.0 - 68.63.255.255
    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. PA-WEST-1 (NET-68-32-176-0-1)
    68.32.176.0 - 68.32.191.255

    # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-10-17 19:15
    # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

    bash-2.05b$ whois 68.83.102.148
    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. JUMPSTART-2 (NET-68-80-0-0-1)
    68.80.0.0 - 68.87.255.255
    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. PA-WEST-7 (NET-68-83-0-0-1)
    68.83.0.0 - 68.83.127.255

    # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-10-17 19:15
    # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

    Is PA a state? If so, definitely indicative but hardly proof.

    andy.

    --
    remove 'n-u-l-l' to email me. html mail or attachments will go in the spam
    bin unless notified with [html] or [attachment] in the subject line.

  10. Re: curious fact

    begin ,
    Andy Baxter writes:
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:11:42 +0200, Roy Culley wrote:
    >
    >> begin ,
    >> wise@saintly.com (saintly1) writes:
    >>
    >> aka plinius@mail.com (flarkblark)

    >
    > bash-2.05b$ whois 68.32.178.156
    > Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. JUMPSTART-1 (NET-68-32-0-0-1)
    > 68.32.0.0 - 68.63.255.255
    > Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. PA-WEST-1 (NET-68-32-176-0-1)
    > 68.32.176.0 - 68.32.191.255
    >
    > # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-10-17 19:15
    > # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
    >
    > bash-2.05b$ whois 68.83.102.148
    > Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. JUMPSTART-2 (NET-68-80-0-0-1)
    > 68.80.0.0 - 68.87.255.255
    > Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. PA-WEST-7 (NET-68-83-0-0-1)
    > 68.83.0.0 - 68.83.127.255
    >
    > # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-10-17 19:15
    > # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
    >
    > Is PA a state? If so, definitely indicative but hardly proof.
    >
    > andy.



    plinius@mail.com (flarkblark) 68.32.178.156
    Message-ID:

    wise@saintly.com (saintly1) 68.32.178.156
    Message-ID:

  11. Re: curious fact

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:11:42 +0200, Roy Culley wrote:
    >
    >
    > begin ,
    > wise@saintly.com (saintly1) writes:
    >
    > aka plinius@mail.com (flarkblark)


    So? He still has raised a valid point.

    The progressiveness of GNU/FSF is obviously smoke and mirrors to some degree
    or another.

    Don't shoot the messenger, he didn't create the problem.

    --
    Alan C
    Posts with sigs of > 4 lines, or not in plain text, are dumped by my filters.

  12. Re: curious fact

    Alan Connor wrote:

    > So? He still has raised a valid point.
    >
    > The progressiveness of GNU/FSF is obviously smoke and mirrors to some degree
    > or another.


    I agree, but I still find gcc and the GNU toolchain highly useful. That
    much alone is worth it for me to support the FSF. I find Stallman's
    redefinitions of certain terms disagreeable at times, but his
    philosophies are very interesting. I don't think they're the be-all
    end-all, but the GPL provides a nice balance with other licenses that
    are, in Stallman's view, "less free". I don't think companies like MS
    are above stealing GPL'd code, and I think they can get away with some
    of it. For example, GPL'd code can be recoded and re-arranged to make
    it less obvious theft has occured. For loops can be recoded into while
    loops, variable names can be changed, filenames can be changed, and the
    code itself can be re-ordered.

    Nevertheless, the movement is probably just as important as the license.



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  13. Re: curious fact

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:25:34 -0400, Donn Miller wrote:

    > BlaBla wrote:
    >> saintly1 wrote:
    >>
    >>>These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    >>>India/China/Russia:
    >>>1. HP
    >>>2. IBM
    >>>3. Cisco
    >>>4. Sun

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >> Big deal. It's about time 3rd world countries cease being just that and
    >> catch up to us.

    >
    > They won't, because they're still working for extremely low wages. And


    If you look in to the Indian market place you find that whilst those
    workers are getting less wages than their equivalent counterparts in the
    west, the cost of living is lower so they are actually middle class
    workers.

    It comes down to the fact that western society has a higher cost of living
    so the workers expect a higher salary in order to be able to live in those
    countries which in turn raises the costs for the businesses based in
    western countries.

    So how long will it take the cost of living to rise in India before the
    workers start demanding higher salaries, which in turn will raise the cost
    of highering staff in those countries?

    You can be sure that the price of consumer goods will rise as the middle
    class salaries rise and the middle class market increases.

    > the outsourcing thing is only temporary, I think, until the economy here
    > picks up. Once the economy starts to improve, companies will still
    > outsource, but I think not as much. I don't think any company really
    > wants to send work overseas, but some have no other choice, because the
    > economy is still mired in a slump.
    >
    >
    >
    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



  14. Re: curious fact

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:11:31 +0000, Erich Friesen wrote:

    > Really, a lot of mis-information in that these are no where near the
    > largest exporters of jobs, accounting firms for example are accelerating
    > their overseas employment. They don't support FSF. So what is your point?
    >
    > And this is inevitable process, but it needs to be managed, if it just
    > happens, there will be massive economic dislocation in America, Britian,
    > etc. Needed is just a little leaderhip...
    >


    HSBC recently announced 4,000 job losses in the UK due to outsourcing to
    India and at the same time told the staff losing their jobs not to talk to
    the media.

    Myself if I was one of those staff I would tell the bank to go **** itself
    through the media whilst at the same time answering all the medias
    questions and perhaps leaking a few well placed internal memos. After all
    loyalty ceases when you get butt ****ed by the directors that pay
    themselves huge annual bonuses for doing absoloutely nothing.

    >
    > saintly1 wrote:
    >> These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    >> India/China/Russia:
    >> 1. HP
    >> 2. IBM
    >> 3. Cisco
    >> 4. Sun
    >>
    >> As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    >> Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    >> form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    >> 1. HP
    >> 2. IBM
    >> 3. Cisco
    >> 4. Sun



  15. Re: curious fact

    Quoth "Nobody" :
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:11:31 +0000, Erich Friesen wrote:
    >> Really, a lot of mis-information in that these are no where near
    >> the largest exporters of jobs, accounting firms for example are
    >> accelerating their overseas employment. They don't support FSF.
    >> So what is your point?
    >>
    >> And this is inevitable process, but it needs to be managed, if it
    >> just happens, there will be massive economic dislocation in
    >> America, Britian, etc. Needed is just a little leaderhip...

    >
    > HSBC recently announced 4,000 job losses in the UK due to
    > outsourcing to India and at the same time told the staff losing
    > their jobs not to talk to the media.
    >
    > Myself if I was one of those staff I would tell the bank to go ****
    > itself through the media whilst at the same time answering all the
    > medias questions and perhaps leaking a few well placed internal
    > memos. After all loyalty ceases when you get butt ****ed by the
    > directors that pay themselves huge annual bonuses for doing
    > absoloutely nothing.


    Ah, but if "keeping your mouth shut" is a condition applied for you to
    receive a severance package worth a good few thousands of
    (dollars|pounds), well, people may consider it worth keeping their
    mouth shut for that.

    After all, if the choice is:
    a) Leave, with severance of $8000, and
    b) Leave, with _no_ severance,

    I'm not sure I would be inclined to throw $8000 away.

    The severance package is legitimate in every other way; the condition
    of "keeping quiet" being the way that the entire amount is made, in
    addition to the other things it represents, a "bribe" to keep quiet.

    If you knew you would lose the severance package, are you truly so
    certain that you would talk?
    --
    let name="cbbrowne" and tld="cbbrowne.com" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;;
    http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxdistributions.html
    "...Yet terrible as Unix addiction is, there are worse fates. If Unix
    is the heroin of operating systems, then VMS is barbiturate addiction,
    the Mac is MDMA, and MS-DOS is sniffing glue. (Windows is filling your
    sinuses with lucite and letting it set.) You owe the Oracle a
    twelve-step program." --The Usenet Oracle

  16. Re: curious fact

    Christopher Browne wrote:
    ....
    >
    > Ah, but if "keeping your mouth shut" is a condition applied for you to
    > receive a severance package worth a good few thousands of
    > (dollars|pounds), well, people may consider it worth keeping their
    > mouth shut for that.
    >
    > After all, if the choice is:
    > a) Leave, with severance of $8000, and
    > b) Leave, with _no_ severance,
    >
    > I'm not sure I would be inclined to throw $8000 away.
    >
    > The severance package is legitimate in every other way; the condition
    > of "keeping quiet" being the way that the entire amount is made, in
    > addition to the other things it represents, a "bribe" to keep quiet.
    >
    > If you knew you would lose the severance package, are you truly so
    > certain that you would talk?


    Indeed. Such situations are usually more complicated than they appear on
    paper.
    1. You are probably not told you are targeted until the last moment.
    Therefore it does not make sense to raise your head above the parapet in
    the early stages.
    2. The guys/dolls making the decisions are not going to leak any
    information. They are busy looking after their own interests.
    3. Even in the late stages, the targeted people will be told that the
    company is doing its utmost to redeploy them somewhere else in the
    company (a lie but the toadies who know their jobs are safe will go
    through the motions of seemingly doing their best).

    ge0rge
    --
    I exist, therefore I am paid.


  17. Re: curious fact

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:36:44 +0100, ge0rge wrote:

    > Christopher Browne wrote:
    > ...
    >>
    >> Ah, but if "keeping your mouth shut" is a condition applied for you to
    >> receive a severance package worth a good few thousands of
    >> (dollars|pounds), well, people may consider it worth keeping their
    >> mouth shut for that.
    >>
    >> After all, if the choice is:
    >> a) Leave, with severance of $8000, and
    >> b) Leave, with _no_ severance,
    >>
    >> I'm not sure I would be inclined to throw $8000 away.
    >>
    >> The severance package is legitimate in every other way; the condition
    >> of "keeping quiet" being the way that the entire amount is made, in
    >> addition to the other things it represents, a "bribe" to keep quiet.
    >>
    >> If you knew you would lose the severance package, are you truly so
    >> certain that you would talk?

    >
    > Indeed. Such situations are usually more complicated than they appear on
    > paper.
    > 1. You are probably not told you are targeted until the last moment.
    > Therefore it does not make sense to raise your head above the parapet in
    > the early stages.
    > 2. The guys/dolls making the decisions are not going to leak any
    > information. They are busy looking after their own interests.
    > 3. Even in the late stages, the targeted people will be told that the
    > company is doing its utmost to redeploy them somewhere else in the
    > company (a lie but the toadies who know their jobs are safe will go
    > through the motions of seemingly doing their best).
    >
    > ge0rge


    All true, as is the usual case, big businesses know how to screw you. In
    this case though they have told the unions that they intend to close the
    offices with loss of all jobs.

    The really funny thing is that the company has been given awards for it's
    high customer services from those very same offices it is now outsourcing
    the customer serverices to India from.


  18. Re: curious fact

    Nobody wrote:

    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:25:34 -0400, Donn Miller wrote:
    >
    >> BlaBla wrote:
    >>> saintly1 wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    >>>>India/China/Russia:
    >>>>1. HP
    >>>>2. IBM
    >>>>3. Cisco
    >>>>4. Sun

    >>
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >>> Big deal. It's about time 3rd world countries cease being just that and
    >>> catch up to us.

    >>
    >> They won't, because they're still working for extremely low wages. And

    >
    > If you look in to the Indian market place you find that whilst those
    > workers are getting less wages than their equivalent counterparts in the
    > west, the cost of living is lower so they are actually middle class
    > workers.
    >
    > It comes down to the fact that western society has a higher cost of
    > living so the workers expect a higher salary in order to be able to live
    > in those countries which in turn raises the costs for the businesses
    > based in western countries.


    Western cost of living is driven by such things as health and safety issues
    and better infrastructure paid for by higher taxes.

    > So how long will it take the cost of living to rise in India before the
    > workers start demanding higher salaries, which in turn will raise the
    > cost of highering staff in those countries?


    It doesn't matter. When India prices itself out of the market somewhere
    else will take over, China maybe, then when China prices itself out of the
    market the jobs will move, probably to Africa.

    > You can be sure that the price of consumer goods will rise as the middle
    > class salaries rise and the middle class market increases.
    >
    >> the outsourcing thing is only temporary, I think, until the economy here
    >> picks up. Once the economy starts to improve, companies will still
    >> outsource, but I think not as much. I don't think any company really
    >> wants to send work overseas, but some have no other choice, because the
    >> economy is still mired in a slump.


    You think so?

    Management have discovered that communications technology allows them to
    outsource wherever they wish, all that'll happen is that they'll chase the
    lowest quality service they can get away with at the lowest price they can
    negotiate. Means a bigger BMW for the bosses, and for 99% of them that's
    the bottom line. Never mind that someone in an Indonesia directory
    enquiries call centre doesn't know what Woolworths or Man U is...

    This particular genie's out of the bottle and it won't ever return, at
    least not until wages around the globe are comparable, and that'll take
    many years.

    --

    Peter

    Palladium is Microsoft's suicide note.

  19. Re: curious fact

    saintly1 wrote:
    > These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    > India/China/Russia:
    > 1. HP
    > 2. IBM
    > 3. Cisco
    > 4. Sun
    >
    > As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    > Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    > form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    > 1. HP
    > 2. IBM
    > 3. Cisco
    > 4. Sun


    And your point would be??? Possibly guilt by association? Do you suppose
    they send jobs overseas because they support FSF; or do they support FSF
    because they send jobs overseas?


  20. Re: curious fact

    You, ray, assert:

    > And your point would be??? Possibly guilt by association? Do you suppose
    > they send jobs overseas because they support FSF; or do they support FSF
    > because they send jobs overseas?


    do you pointy heads ever consider
    that sending jobs whose technological
    merit has evaporated overseas could
    be a good thing?

    why should the consumer bear the
    burden of paying for something
    that could be done a lot cheaper
    by someone else?

    why should a $7 an hour burger king
    worker, pay a $40 an hour 'customer
    support representative' when a $2
    an hour native of Punjab could do it
    just the same?

    the way to get high pay is to deliver
    superior value -- not to force the
    marketplace into paying someone
    more than what their worth.

    of course -- if anything i said
    were true -- bill gates would be
    making 0.01 cents per year, since
    he only subtracts from the system
    and adds no value what so ever.




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