curious fact - Microsoft Windows

This is a discussion on curious fact - Microsoft Windows ; Quoth gduke : > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:18:05 +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: >> If you knew you would lose the severance package, are you truly so >> certain that you would talk? > > Yes. Loudly. Interesting. I ...

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Thread: curious fact

  1. Re: curious fact

    Quoth gduke :
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:18:05 +0000, Christopher Browne wrote:
    >> If you knew you would lose the severance package, are you truly so
    >> certain that you would talk?

    >
    > Yes. Loudly.


    Interesting. I think you are in a distinct minority. I expect MOST
    people would rather keep the money, and find some apologia for why
    they compromised in the matter.
    --
    let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;;
    http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/spiritual.html
    "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
    -- First Baron Acton, 1834 - 1902

  2. Re: curious fact

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:54:13 GMT, Mark wrote:
    >
    >
    > In article
    > David Kastrup wrote:
    >
    >>Alan Connor writes:
    >>
    >>> Even with the GPL, M$ has, and will steal code from FSF. So why even
    >>> worry about it?

    >>
    >>Proof?

    >
    > There is non, just a rant from a linux zealot that nobody listens to.
    >
    > Look at the newsgroup that the **** came from.
    >


    That's really helpful. Do you feel better now?

    Sorry, but I really don't have time for garbage like this.

    killfiled for 90 days.

    Perhaps you'll have a life by then....

    --
    Alan C
    Posts with sigs of > 4 lines, or not in plain text, are dumped by my filters.

  3. Re: curious fact

    On 18 Oct 2003 22:18:52 GMT, Christopher Browne wrote:
    >
    >
    > Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing when Alan Connor wrote:


    No doubt she likes my spray-painted macaroni ear rings :-|

    >> His point is that no corporation gives money without strings attached. At
    >> the very least, the FSF will have to refrain from criticising these
    >> corporations or any policies it may have.

    >
    > Richard Stallman has historically had few difficulties criticizing
    > anyone he chooses over anything he chooses.
    >
    > This is one of the reasons why FSF funding has been pretty _scarce_,
    > all in all. That they have a _mere_ million dollars when IBM and HP
    > and Intel such have been spending _millions_ on Linux-related stuff is
    > an evidence of this.
    >
    > A million dollars may seem a lot to you; if there are 10 million users
    > of Linux (likely severely understating things), that indicates that
    > they consider that the FSF is of such _little_ importance that they
    > haven't given so much as a thin dime to it.


    Talk's cheap. Does he just criticize or refuse their money??

    I don't support the organization FSF/GNU because they have essentially
    sold out to the idea that Linux must compete with M$ for the appliance-
    operator market. This whole concept is utterly inimical to the ideals
    that they CLAIM to hold.

    But I do send M.O.s to developers and maintainers whose work I admire
    and use, some of which belong to these orgs or use their licenses.

    --
    Alan C
    Posts with sigs of > 4 lines, or not in plain text, are dumped by my filters.

  4. Re: curious fact

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    ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:29:07 GMT,
    Alan Connor wrote:
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:34:23 +0100, Peter Hayes wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> Nobody wrote:
    >>> again.

    >>
    >> Somewhere along the line things will even themselves out. The richer
    >> countries will become poorer partly as a result of the loss of millions of
    >> jobs to poorer economies, which helps to make those poorer economies
    >> richer.
    >>
    >> It's sort of like an economic low-pass filter.
    >>

    >
    > You nailed it, Peter: The main reason that the U.S. and Europe/Japan/Common-
    > wealth are in a recession is that they are having to share the world's wealth
    > with other countries now.
    >
    > Better get used to it.
    >


    That doesn't make any sense.

    If the west is being "forced" to "share" the wealth, where did that
    wealth come from in the first place? are you claiming that the west
    (including for some reason, Japan) has all the natural resources? Or
    does the wealth mostly come from the labour of folks working for a
    living? In which case, what exactly is the west *not* sharing allready?

    Frankly, your statement sounds like just another poorly thought out
    slogan.


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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    'Windows' really does make a fine swear word, representing all that's
    taboo and awful - just like '****', '****', etc."
    -- Mark Hughes, sdm

  5. Re: curious fact

    You, Alan Connor, assert:

    > I don't support the organization FSF/GNU because they have essentially
    > sold out to the idea that Linux must compete with M$ for the appliance-


    what?

    embedded linux killed


  6. Re: curious fact

    In article <%Ajkb.2019$np1.1465@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.n et>
    Alan Connor wrote:

    >Talk's cheap.


    Correct, as seen in your crap that you vomit across several groups.


  7. Re: curious fact

    In article <2a0f3464d9a88f1fef4c9f324ae1c4a3@news.teranews.com>
    "john bailo" wrote:

    >You, Alan Connor, assert:
    >
    >> I don't support the organization FSF/GNU because they have essentially
    >> sold out to the idea that Linux must compete with M$ for the appliance-

    >
    >what?
    >
    >embedded linux killed


    It never had life to be killed.

    Few attempts here and there, that doesn't constitute life, get a clue.


  8. Re: curious fact

    In article
    Alan Connor wrote:

    >On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:54:13 GMT, Mark wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> In article
    >> David Kastrup wrote:
    >>
    >>>Alan Connor writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Even with the GPL, M$ has, and will steal code from FSF. So why even
    >>>> worry about it?
    >>>
    >>>Proof?

    >>
    >> There is non, just a rant from a linux zealot that nobody listens to.
    >>
    >> Look at the newsgroup that the **** came from.
    >>

    >
    >That's really helpful.


    Of course.

    >Do you feel better now?


    Do you, dickhead?
    You morons seem to get off on lousy accusations that you do not and
    cannot backup.


    >Sorry,


    I bet you are.


    >but I really don't have time for garbage like this.


    Correct, you're busy morphing from one nym to another in comp.mail.misc.

    >killfiled for 90 days.


    Ohh, I am hurt.

    So what exactly I will lose if a dickless, brainless, idiot like you not
    reading my posts?
    Think again.

    >Perhaps you'll have a life by then....


    I have one, but looks like you don't.


    http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...&num=100&hl=en



  9. Re: curious fact

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:08:49 GMT, john bailo wrote:
    >
    >
    > You, Alan Connor, assert:
    >
    >> I don't support the organization FSF/GNU because they have essentially
    >> sold out to the idea that Linux must compete with M$ for the appliance-

    >
    > what?
    >
    > embedded linux killed
    >


    I'll send flowers.

    --
    Alan C
    Posts with sigs of > 4 lines, or not in plain text, are dumped by my filters.

  10. Re: curious fact

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    ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:43:49 GMT,
    Mark wrote:
    > In article <2a0f3464d9a88f1fef4c9f324ae1c4a3@news.teranews.com>
    > "john bailo" wrote:
    >
    >>You, Alan Connor, assert:
    >>
    >>> I don't support the organization FSF/GNU because they have essentially
    >>> sold out to the idea that Linux must compete with M$ for the appliance-

    >>
    >>what?
    >>
    >>embedded linux killed

    >
    > It never had life to be killed.
    >
    > Few attempts here and there, that doesn't constitute life, get a clue.
    >


    Some clues for embedded Linux can be found at...


    Good luck Mark, be advised, there are some big words there, you might
    need to get some help reading parts of it.

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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    Dorothy Parker's reply to her editor who was bugging her for her belated
    work while she was on her honeymoon: "Too ****ing busy, and vice versa."

  11. Re: Spurious correlation

    While restarting Outlook, Alan Connor grumbled:

    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:04:07 -0500, Linønut wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> While restarting Outlook, saintly1 grumbled:
    >>
    >>> These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    >>> India/China/Russia:
    >>> 1. HP
    >>> 2. IBM
    >>> 3. Cisco
    >>> 4. Sun
    >>>
    >>> As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    >>> Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    >>> form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    >>> 1. HP
    >>> 2. IBM
    >>> 3. Cisco
    >>> 4. Sun

    >>
    >> Spurious correlation.

    >
    > Wrong. Obviously.


    What, me wrong, or the other guy wrong?

    If it's me, please explain how finding four colors of marbles in one bag
    and four of the same color in another bag means anything except that
    those four colors reside in both bags?

    --
    Windows desktops and servers can find a safe haven on a
    GNU/Linux/FreeBSD network!

  12. Re: Spurious correlation

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:42:08 -0500, Linønut wrote:
    >
    >
    > While restarting Outlook, Alan Connor grumbled:
    >
    >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:04:07 -0500, Linønut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> While restarting Outlook, saintly1 grumbled:
    >>>
    >>>> These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to
    >>>> India/China/Russia:
    >>>> 1. HP
    >>>> 2. IBM
    >>>> 3. Cisco
    >>>> 4. Sun
    >>>>
    >>>> As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    >>>> Software Foundation, which according to its publicly available tax
    >>>> form has $1,000,000 or so in assets.
    >>>> 1. HP
    >>>> 2. IBM
    >>>> 3. Cisco
    >>>> 4. Sun
    >>>
    >>> Spurious correlation.

    >>
    >> Wrong. Obviously.

    >
    > What, me wrong, or the other guy wrong?
    >
    > If it's me, please explain how finding four colors of marbles in one bag
    > and four of the same color in another bag means anything except that
    > those four colors reside in both bags?
    >


    If you had read the thread, you would no who I was referring to above, and
    why I think you are wrong.

    So read the thread.

    --
    Alan C
    Posts with sigs of > 4 lines, or not in plain text, are dumped by my filters.

  13. Re: curious fact

    wise@saintly.com (saintly1) writes:

    > These four companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to


    > As it happens, the following four companies are sponsors of the Free
    > Software Foundation,


    So the same four corporations who do most for the third world is also
    the same four companies who do most for free software. Maybe there
    really is such a thing as a good corporation.

    [ FUT: gnu.misc.discuss ]

  14. Re: curious fact

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:49:54 GMT, Sinister Midget wrote:
    >
    >These companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to various third
    >world countries:
    >
    >1. MICROS~1


    Certtainly they are encourageing Linux-based industries to emerge in
    plenty of countries!


    --
    "It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
    people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
    (My real email address would be if you added 275
    to it and reversed the last two letters).



  15. Re: curious fact

    Alan Connor writes:

    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:06:59 -0600, Jason Earl wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> Alan Connor writes:
    >>
    >>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:11:42 +0200, Roy Culley wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> begin ,
    >>>> wise@saintly.com (saintly1) writes:
    >>>>
    >>>> aka plinius@mail.com (flarkblark)
    >>>
    >>> So? He still has raised a valid point.
    >>>
    >>> The progressiveness of GNU/FSF is obviously smoke and mirrors to
    >>> some degree or another.
    >>>
    >>> Don't shoot the messenger, he didn't create the problem.

    >>
    >> The Free Software Foundation is involved in creating and advocating
    >> Free Software. That's why they have called themselves the "Free
    >> Software Foundation." They aren't in the business of protecting
    >> American jobs.
    >>
    >> Jason

    >
    > So because they don't have the word "ethical" in their title, they
    > are exempt from ethical behavior?


    There is nothing unethical about providing an Indian with a good job.
    In fact, I would propose that it is unethical to discriminate against
    someone just because they happen to live in a different country than
    you do.

    > But of course, what you say isn't true at all, if it were THEIR jobs
    > on the line....


    And the truth comes out. Your argument doesn't have anything to do
    with ethics. Instead it has everything to do with your own
    self-interest. You would much rather force people to pay you an
    inflated wage than to let them seek out the best deal.

    Jason

  16. Re: curious fact

    Alan Connor writes:

    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:59:45 -0600, Jason Earl wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> Alan Connor writes:
    >>
    >>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:31:31 GMT, john bailo wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> You, ray, assert:
    >>>>
    >>>>> And your point would be??? Possibly guilt by association? Do you suppose
    >>>>> they send jobs overseas because they support FSF; or do they support FSF
    >>>>> because they send jobs overseas?
    >>>>
    >>>> do you pointy heads ever consider
    >>>> that sending jobs whose technological
    >>>> merit has evaporated overseas could
    >>>> be a good thing?
    >>>>
    >>>> why should the consumer bear the
    >>>> burden of paying for something
    >>>> that could be done a lot cheaper
    >>>> by someone else?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Because he doesn't want his neighbor on welfare?

    >>
    >> Folks in the US can always get work. It may not be glamorous work,
    >> and it may not pay terribly well, but chances are very good that it
    >> will pay better than even a good job in India.
    >>
    >> What, you don't believe that Indians have a right to good jobs too?
    >>
    >> Jason

    >
    > They have a right to create good lives for themselves. The idea that
    > this can only be done with "jobs" is quite erroneous.


    What, you think that they should be given a handout? Or worse, do you
    think that they should all go back to subsistence farming.

    Let me tell you something, before you say that subsistence farming is
    good enough for someone else, you should try it yourself. No one
    deserves to live like that.

    So what is your grand plan for the world economy that doesn't require
    "jobs?"

    > You are a typically arrogant Westerner, assuming that your culture is
    > the only valid one, and that everyone on the planet has to live like
    > you.


    I am hardly the typical Westerner. I grew up in the third world. I
    graduated from high school in Lima, Peru, and I have lived all over
    South America. I just happen to know that people everywhere want the
    same things. They want a job so that they can support themselves and
    their family.

    That's what you want to. You see the Indian programmer as a threat to
    your precious way of life.

    > Beneath your show of compassion is nothing but the desire to exploit
    > the hell out of these people.


    No. I just happen to know that it costs a heck of a lot more to live
    in San Francisco than it does to live in Lima, Peru or Bangalore,
    India. The Indian programmers that are replacing American coders are
    not being exploited at all. In fact, they generally manage to live
    very well. Sure, they might not be able to afford a new car every few
    years (or a new computer every few years for that matter), but they
    *can* afford to live in a nice neighborhood, and they can afford to
    send their children to a decent school.

    So spare me the rhetoric about exploitation.

    Jason

  17. Re: curious fact

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    On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:14:53 +0100,
    phil hunt wrote:
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:49:54 GMT, Sinister Midget wrote:
    >>
    >>These companies are sending jobs overseas at a high rate to various third
    >>world countries:
    >>
    >>1. MICROS~1

    >
    > Certtainly they are encourageing Linux-based industries to emerge in
    > plenty of countries!
    >
    >


    So's Microsoft

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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged
    demo.

  18. Re: curious fact


    "Nobody" wrote in message
    newsan.2003.10.18.15.02.57.702907@nowehere.com...
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:11:31 +0000, Erich Friesen wrote:
    >
    > > Really, a lot of mis-information in that these are no where near the
    > > largest exporters of jobs, accounting firms for example are accelerating
    > > their overseas employment. They don't support FSF. So what is your

    point?
    > >
    > > And this is inevitable process, but it needs to be managed, if it just
    > > happens, there will be massive economic dislocation in America, Britian,
    > > etc. Needed is just a little leaderhip...
    > >

    >
    > HSBC recently announced 4,000 job losses in the UK due to outsourcing to
    > India and at the same time told the staff losing their jobs not to talk to
    > the media.
    >
    > Myself if I was one of those staff I would tell the bank to go **** itself
    > through the media whilst at the same time answering all the medias
    > questions and perhaps leaking a few well placed internal memos. After all
    > loyalty ceases when you get butt ****ed by the directors that pay
    > themselves huge annual bonuses for doing absoloutely nothing.
    >



    No, they were doing their job. They got rid of you didn't they ?
    And are supporting 3 families in the 3rd world with your wages by the way.
    These boys are saints, and should be brought to the attention of the proper
    religious authorities.

    --
    Welcome to Usenet. Wear a cup.
    ( Just wasting time here till my ISP refreshes the pr0n sites. )




  19. Re: curious fact

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:18:52 GMT, Kingbarry2000 wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > "Nobody" wrote in message
    > newsan.2003.10.18.15.02.57.702907@nowehere.com...
    >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:11:31 +0000, Erich Friesen wrote:
    >>
    >> > Really, a lot of mis-information in that these are no where near the
    >> > largest exporters of jobs, accounting firms for example are accelerating
    >> > their overseas employment. They don't support FSF. So what is your

    > point?
    >> >
    >> > And this is inevitable process, but it needs to be managed, if it just
    >> > happens, there will be massive economic dislocation in America, Britian,
    >> > etc. Needed is just a little leaderhip...
    >> >

    >>
    >> HSBC recently announced 4,000 job losses in the UK due to outsourcing to
    >> India and at the same time told the staff losing their jobs not to talk to
    >> the media.
    >>
    >> Myself if I was one of those staff I would tell the bank to go **** itself
    >> through the media whilst at the same time answering all the medias
    >> questions and perhaps leaking a few well placed internal memos. After all
    >> loyalty ceases when you get butt ****ed by the directors that pay
    >> themselves huge annual bonuses for doing absoloutely nothing.
    >>

    >
    >
    > No, they were doing their job. They got rid of you didn't they ?
    > And are supporting 3 families in the 3rd world with your wages by the way.
    > These boys are saints, and should be brought to the attention of the proper
    > religious authorities.
    >



    What's being left out of this equation is the fact that those people only need
    jobs because the West has already destroyed the native, self-sufficient
    cutlures that existed their, however evolved it might have been:

    Many countries would, and have tried, to take only the best of what the West
    has to offer, and refuse the rest.

    But that's never okay with the Imperial West....Got Forests to mow and
    Mountains to level, and we sure aren't going to mess up OUR pretty parks,
    are we?

    And all that grunt labor, which amounts to de facto slavery when you consider
    that they wouldn't even be in those urban slums if the West, or parties
    financed by the West hadn't appropriated their traditional lands to turn into
    clearcuts, mines, and plantations and factories.

    Wouldn't want to have to do all that work ourselves, and if the slaves were
    HERE, we would have to look at them and be reminded of what we really are.

    --
    Alan C
    Posts with sigs of > 4 lines, or not in plain text, are dumped by my filters.

  20. Re: curious fact

    In article , Alan
    Connor wrote:
    > So? He still has raised a valid point.


    Incorrect. He raised no point at all, since all he did was show that four
    companies who support FSF also are outsourcing. However, since most of the
    IT industry is outsourcing, this gives no useful information at all.

    ....
    > The progressiveness of GNU/FSF is obviously smoke and mirrors to some
    > degree or another.


    This, or course, would not follow, even if the original post had not been
    meaningless.

    --
    Evidence Eliminator is worthless. See evidence-eliminator-sucks.com
    --Tim Smith

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