Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX! - Microsoft Windows

This is a discussion on Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX! - Microsoft Windows ; On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:44:32 -0800, Tight_N_Sweet wrote: > So where is Linux on the desktop? > The truth is Linux is nowhere. We do this for US, not for you. When you start paying for the development, then ...

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Thread: Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX!

  1. Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX!

    On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:44:32 -0800, Tight_N_Sweet wrote:

    > So where is Linux on the desktop?
    > The truth is Linux is nowhere.


    We do this for US, not for you. When you start paying for the
    development, then you get to make the decisions. Until then, your "needs"
    are no more useful to us than the thousands of others.

    > Linux may, and I am being generous here, may have 1 percent of the desktop
    > market but that is stretching it quite a bit.


    And you know what? Nobody else cares either, because Linux was not
    created to "take over the desktop". That's the media's drag on it,
    because they'd love to see someone supplant Microsoft in that market.

    Linux exists to provide a "free Unix for PC hardware", period. Linux
    -companies-, however, have different goals, and many are directly
    targeting the desktop market. There is no "Linux, Inc.", and that means
    there are no "deliverables", or "milestones" with which we all are
    required to follow to write Free Software, many of which runs on Linux.

    That being said, most of the software that runs on Linux was developed by
    people who had an "itch", and they wrote something to "scratch" that itch.
    The software that exists, was useful to them, and many (most) don't even
    care if not a single other user uses it. THEY (the author) use it, and
    it works for them, so they don't need to answer to the "consumers", who
    wish Linux did more for them.

    > Walmart is selling Linux machines, but how well are they selling and what
    > kind of return rate do they have?


    Probably pretty well, since the cost of 'machine + Linux' is much less
    than just the -software- cost (licenses) of 'Microsoft Windows + Office'.

    > Do you know anyone outside of the computer science community using Linux?


    google, AOL, Yahoo (well ok, they use FreeBSD internally on desktops),
    IBM, HP, Dell, and dozens upon dozens of other desktop, server, and
    productivity users. Universities, pharmeceutical industries, state and
    local governments, power facilities, utility companies (phone, power,
    oil). Even HP uses Linux now, for their SmartStart tools on CD, to
    manage their -Windows- servers.

    No, I don't think I know anyone outside the computer science community
    using Linux.

    > Does AOL work with Linux?


    No, nor does it have to, however, AOL uses Linux, and they fully support
    the Free Software movement that drives Linux's userbase. AOL also
    releases sofware for Linux, like their IM client, as well as bundling
    Mozilla with their client tools, even on Windows.

    > Do all of those games on the shelf at Fry's work with Linux?


    No, and until someone decides that "games" are important to Linux, they
    likely won't begin working on Linux. This isn't a Linux problem, it's a
    vendor problem. Send them your complaints. Get them to support Linux.
    Don't blame Linux or the Linux community because the game vendor you
    bought that game from ignores Linux.

    > Does Linux support modern hardware?


    Yes, most. Anything that isn't supported, is a vendor problem. Many
    vendors openly threaten Free Software developers with lawsuits and other
    attacks, to try to stifle reverse-engineering their devices and drivers,
    just so people can use the hardware they bought from them, under Linux.

    There is more than enough talent, code, free time, and documentation in
    the Free Software community to make every piece of hardware work at top
    capacity. The problem is vendors do not supply documentation, or expect
    that we can just write a 100% compatible driver in a weekend, with no
    docs. Many simply don't care to support Linux.

    In short, hardware that is not supported under Linux is a vendor problem.
    If you want hardware to work with Linux, buy from a vendor that supports
    Linux, or buy hardware you know works with Linux, because you've
    researched it to find out the compatibility issues. You don't buy a car
    without checking "Consumer Reports" and opinions on the web, do yo?

    > Can Linux interface 100 percent with other Windows applications like
    > Quicken and Microsoft Office?


    Are those application file formats fully documented?

    > The Linux cuckoo will say that WINE is a great way to use WIndows
    > programs under Linux.
    > The truth is WINE is a pile of garbage. It does not run Windows
    > applications very well and in truth proves the fact that Linux is
    > lacking in the area of applications that many users need.


    Feel free to send a few million dollars to the Wine group to help fund
    the future development of their tools. I'm sure with solid funding,
    they could justify hiring people to work full-time on "your" issues
    with Wine and Windows compatibility. Until then, their people work
    their day jobs, and work on Wine in their spare time. Many of them
    have families, children, and other things that are a higher
    priority than solving "your" problems. Especially since you got all
    of it for free. Your opinion means absolutely nothing to them, and to
    most of the Free Software community. Until you contribute, you have no
    say whatsoever.

    > Speaking of applications, this is the weakest part of Linux. Sure you
    > get 100's of applications with a typical Linux CD, but who really needs
    > 25 editors, compilers and a collection of games right out of 1985 circa
    > TRON.


    You completely miss the point. The "Unix Philosophy", which Linux is
    a major proponent of, advocates one tool that does one job well. You
    then couple that one tool with others, and create a working process.

    What if you wanted to replace the "Contacts" portion of OutlookXP with
    another vendor's Contact solution, but you want it to integrate on the
    same desktop, same icon, and in the same integrated way as the "built-in"
    Contact application. What do you do? What if you wanted to replace the
    mail component of Outlook with something else. You can't.

    With Linux, you get a series of solutions, all which derive one thing..

    CHOICE.

    You can choose which editor, which mail application, which tools you want
    to use, combine, or integrate. If one doesn't work, you replace THAT ONE
    TOOL with another, and you continue working just as you normally would.
    Your "process" doesn't stop, because you replaced 'mutt' with 'pine' or
    'sendmail' with 'qmail'.

    > How about time?
    >
    > Do you have any idea how long it takes to set up a Linux system properly
    > using an editor like emacs?
    >
    > It's a horror show.


    I've been running Linux for over 10 years, daily, on my desktop and
    servers, and I have never yet run emacs ONCE. In fact, I've never had
    to use an "editor" to set up my Linux system. There are dozens of tools
    and other configuration applications to help you set up your Linux system.

    Linux takes about 15 minutes to fully install on a blank drive, with
    every possible application and option selected, and one reboot. 20
    minutes after inserting the install CD, you have a working system, and
    are logged in as a regular user, where you can customize it to your
    liking. Spend an hour or two more to customize it to your tastes, and
    you are pretty much done. Advanced things like configuring firewalling,
    services, and other things take longer, but they take an exhorbitant
    amount of time on Windows as well, because you have to click around
    trying to find the right menu, option, or tool to configure things. Oh
    and let's not forget about the dozens of reboots, patches, reboots,
    updates, reboots, and so on for Windows. Even on a nice fast broadband
    connection, it takes about 3 hours to install Windows, fetch the patches
    and get it to a point where it is no longer vulnerable OUT OF THE BOX,
    so you can THEN begin logging into it and customizing things.

    > Linux is one of the most insecure operating systems on the internet.
    > Take a look at all of the alerts issued by any Linux vendor and you will
    > see all kinds of stuff the cuckoos don't want you to know about.


    Funny that the National Security Agency uses Linux, and in fact, has
    developed their own version of Linux (SELinux) for use in ultra-secure
    environments.

    Open mouth, insert foot.

    > The obvious conclusion is that Linux is a waste of time and should you
    > not believe me take a trip over to:
    > www.linuxiso.org and see for yourself.


    And what exactly are we to see at linuxiso.org?

    > Make sure you back up your system first though because when Linux
    > installs it goes on a seek and destroy mission and will wipe out all of
    > your Windows system including your data.


    Except that it doesn't even touch your Windows data. In fact, Linux
    will happily detect your Windows system, and directly install to
    integrate files and filesystems with it, so when you are booted to
    Linux, you can continue to open, read, and write to your Windows
    datafiles and documents, and also run many of the common Windows
    applications, all without booting back to Windows.

    It will also allow you to resize around your Windows partition, if
    your drive is 100% Windows, you can install Linux on the "free" space
    of that drive, by reclaiming back some of the unused Windows partition
    space.

    Linux doesn't "destroy" any Microsoft Windows data by installing or
    running Linux.

    > After all Linux is better, right?


    For the millions upon millions of commercial companies, businesses,
    countries, government agencies, and users.. yes.

  2. Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX!

    David A. Desrosiers wrote:


    I wanted to comment on some things, and maybe correct a few others...


    >>Walmart is selling Linux machines, but how well are they selling and what
    >>kind of return rate do they have?

    >
    >
    > Probably pretty well, since the cost of 'machine + Linux' is much less
    > than just the -software- cost (licenses) of 'Microsoft Windows + Office'.


    Yep. I personally love my Microtel machine I got through Walmart. Good
    selection of hardware and software and a damn unbeatable price for it!



    >
    >>Does AOL work with Linux?

    >
    >
    > No, nor does it have to, however, AOL uses Linux, and they fully support
    > the Free Software movement that drives Linux's userbase. AOL also
    > releases sofware for Linux, like their IM client, as well as bundling
    > Mozilla with their client tools, even on Windows.



    I want to add that there *is* an AOL client for Linux. You do have to
    sign up from a Windows machine, but afterwards you can use it from a
    Linux box using a program called PengAOL.

    *Why* anyone would want to use AOL itself though is beyond me. AIM yes,
    but AOL? *shudder*

    >
    >
    >>Do all of those games on the shelf at Fry's work with Linux?

    >
    >
    > No, and until someone decides that "games" are important to Linux, they
    > likely won't begin working on Linux. This isn't a Linux problem, it's a
    > vendor problem. Send them your complaints. Get them to support Linux.
    > Don't blame Linux or the Linux community because the game vendor you
    > bought that game from ignores Linux.



    With WineX there's a chance some of those games *might* work.


    >>The Linux cuckoo will say that WINE is a great way to use WIndows
    >>programs under Linux.
    >>The truth is WINE is a pile of garbage. It does not run Windows
    >>applications very well and in truth proves the fact that Linux is
    >>lacking in the area of applications that many users need.

    >
    >
    > Feel free to send a few million dollars to the Wine group to help fund
    > the future development of their tools. I'm sure with solid funding,
    > they could justify hiring people to work full-time on "your" issues
    > with Wine and Windows compatibility. Until then, their people work
    > their day jobs, and work on Wine in their spare time. Many of them
    > have families, children, and other things that are a higher
    > priority than solving "your" problems. Especially since you got all
    > of it for free. Your opinion means absolutely nothing to them, and to
    > most of the Free Software community. Until you contribute, you have no
    > say whatsoever.



    Besides, it's not like Wine or WineX are used to run primary software.
    Most of what we run is native to Linux. We just like having the ability
    to run the software we want to run regardless of OS. That means
    compatability layers and emulaters for Linux tend to abound...

    But at most, it's used for a cheap laugh or a couple of games or
    something. Maybe some kids' software, you know, the really stupid kind
    they *can't* do without...



    --
    "Sure, the lion is king of the jungle - but airdrop him into Antarctica,
    and he's just a penguin's bitch." -- Dennis Miller


  3. Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX!

    begin ,
    On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:39:33 -0400 "David A. Desrosiers" wrote:
    > On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:44:32 -0800, Tight_N_Sweet wrote:


    Very nice post David. Did it really take you 8 months to write it? :-)

  4. Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX!

    Idiot

    --
    sqr
    --
    ftp://sqr.myftp.biz



    "Roy Culley" wrote in message
    news:ep7m51-bkp.ln1@gentoo.linux.src...



  5. Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX!

    I understand how important it is that our computers and our internet does
    not become a piece of intellectual property for some corporation, and
    therefore I understand the need for so-called "Free Operating Systems" and
    "Free Internet Browsers". I do however, also understand practicality and
    the relationship that Microsoft and the PC have shared for a few decades
    already. I think that these things are only as important as someone's use
    for a desktop.

    Gamers, for instance will find very little use for Linux outside of game
    development (which is something that not 100% of the massive PC gamer market
    is insterested in). For a game developer, Linux provides a free OS which
    can be distrobuted to other game devs out there in the world, as well as
    free programing languages that are only Linux-compatible. Then and only
    then is such a free OS considered an advantage over Planet Microsoft's OS.

    I remember years back when there was a huge anti-trust lawsuit over Internet
    Explorer and how they were basically stealing the market away from Netscape
    Navigator. Well, I own a website today, and let me tell you: At one point
    I had only a single netscape user surf through the site... and it wasn't
    even on a Mac! An operating system that Internet Explorer doesn't even come
    preinstalled on has had just as big a hand in IE visits to my site as
    Windows users have! It goes to show that when people want a product that
    works, they turn to big corporations that have been making the thing for ten
    years and not "Bill and Jill Hippy" who have just recently coded something
    that happens to block pop-up ads from websites.

    I could write more, but perhaps I'll save this for a later "Propaganda" on
    my website.

    http://projectblack.0catch.com



  6. Re: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH LINUX!

    On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:13:04 +0000, sqr pranced about and farted:



    >--
    > Idiot


    Nice signature. Is it your surname or were you named after your father?

    --
    Nimda - Innovative Microsoft peer-to-peer software at its finest!


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