Macinosh = Crapintosh ! - Microsoft Windows

This is a discussion on Macinosh = Crapintosh ! - Microsoft Windows ; Mayor of R'lyeh wrote ... >Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it! You forgot to specify padded walls for their room. ;-) Best regards, Sam Gillett aka Mars Probe @ Starship Intrepid 1-972-221-4088 Last ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6
Results 101 to 109 of 109

Thread: Macinosh = Crapintosh !

  1. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !


    Mayor of R'lyeh wrote ...

    >Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it!


    You forgot to specify padded walls for their room. ;-)

    Best regards,

    Sam Gillett aka Mars Probe @ Starship Intrepid 1-972-221-4088
    Last 8-bit BBS in the Dallas area. Commodore lives!






  2. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !

    In article ,
    Ruud Dingemans wrote:

    > Edwin wrote:
    >
    > >>So you never really went into specifics. What can YOU do that I
    > >>cannot? What can you do better on your Mac?

    > >
    > > No Mac advocate will ever answer those questions, no matter how many times
    > > you ask.

    >
    >
    > After the C64, Amiga, and Mac (the 'real' one) now the Powermac is
    > currently my main machine. (On MacOS X, a BSD Unix machine, really -
    > these days, it's a bit sloppy to talk about 'the Mac' in general; the
    > old Mac is dead.)
    >
    >
    > It can run Mac apps beside MS-Office and Unix programs.
    >
    > It can still network directly to an old Apple II(gs) and using the same
    > standard hardware use Ethernet to access things like the Internet.
    >
    > Name another machine that does *those* particular tricks - and no, using
    > computer emulators doesn't count
    >
    > > The best they can come up with is "I just like the Mac,"

    >
    > Hopefully, I did a bit better.


    Everyone that answered did better than "I just like the Mac", it's not
    that hard given the marginal usability of windows. The problem is that
    is all they choose to hear.

    Watch how they spin your response.

    SD

    > I still have and love my C64, Mac, IIGS, Amiga, Lisa and PET 2001
    > though. The PC is... well, used for games here, really. Grand Prix
    > Legends still rules the simracing world!
    >
    > Regards, Rudy
    > (GPLRank -7.8)
    >


  3. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:43:35 -0500, "Edwin" chose
    to bless us with the following wisdom:

    >
    >"Elizabot" wrote in message
    >news:3f4bc260$0$62081$75868355@news.frii.net...
    >> Mayor of R'lyeh wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:32:35 -0600, Elizabot
    >> > chose to bless us with the following
    >> > wisdom:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>Edwin wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>>"Elizabot" wrote in message
    >> >>>news:3f4ba96a$0$62081$75868355@news.frii.net...
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>>Edwin wrote:
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>>"Trepain" wrote in message
    >> >>>>>news:kiE_a.96101$Vt6.31543@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.n et...
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>>www.macvirus.com is a site with Mac related virus information. They

    >do
    >> >>>>>>exist on the Mac whether you have experienced them or not.
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>>Trojans - http://members.fortunecity.com/reape...i/trojans.html
    >> >>>>>>here you will find quite a few. They also exist.
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>>FIXING YOUR MAC - Solving Common Mac ERRORS -
    >> >>>>>>http://www.macforce.com/support_cure.php - well I guess Macs have
    >> >>>>>>errors like any other computer.
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>>So you never really went into specifics. What can YOU do that I
    >> >>>>>>cannot? What can you do better on your Mac? How many times must I

    >ask
    >> >>>>>>this?
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>No Mac advocate will ever answer those questions, no matter how many
    >> >>>
    >> >>>times
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>>>you ask. The best they can come up with is "I just like the Mac,"

    >and
    >> >>>
    >> >>>to
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>>>perhaps point you to a study that compares Windows 3.x to the Mac.
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>[snip]
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>Edwin
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>Back in 4 days. Is this a new record?
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>Back? Back where? Did you see how many groups this is cross-posted

    >to?
    >> >>>I'm posting to comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy myself.
    >> >>>
    >> >>>Edwin
    >> >>
    >> >>You're going to be very bored there. That group has been abandoned.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it!

    >>
    >> Jealous?

    >
    >Can you blame him? After all he is entombed in an obscene, slime covered
    >tower at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean... you can see how that would make
    >one jealous of those living in the light and air...
    >
    >Edwin
    >

    But its a very nice obscene, slime covered tower at the bottom of the
    Pacific Ocean. If you ever saw it you would be SO jealous.



    --

    "Whoever is advising them [Democrats] on gun control
    should be shot."

    Blaine Rummel, spokesman for the Coalition to
    Stop Gun Violence.

  4. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:26:07 -0600, Elizabot
    chose to bless us with the following
    wisdom:

    >Mayor of R'lyeh wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:32:35 -0600, Elizabot
    >> chose to bless us with the following
    >> wisdom:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Edwin wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>"Elizabot" wrote in message
    >>>>news:3f4ba96a$0$62081$75868355@news.frii.net...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Edwin wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>"Trepain" wrote in message
    >>>>>>news:kiE_a.96101$Vt6.31543@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.n et...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>www.macvirus.com is a site with Mac related virus information. They do
    >>>>>>>exist on the Mac whether you have experienced them or not.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Trojans - http://members.fortunecity.com/reape...i/trojans.html
    >>>>>>>here you will find quite a few. They also exist.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>FIXING YOUR MAC - Solving Common Mac ERRORS -
    >>>>>>>http://www.macforce.com/support_cure.php - well I guess Macs have
    >>>>>>>errors like any other computer.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>So you never really went into specifics. What can YOU do that I
    >>>>>>>cannot? What can you do better on your Mac? How many times must I ask
    >>>>>>>this?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>No Mac advocate will ever answer those questions, no matter how many
    >>>>
    >>>>times
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>>you ask. The best they can come up with is "I just like the Mac," and
    >>>>
    >>>>to
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>>perhaps point you to a study that compares Windows 3.x to the Mac.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>[snip]
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Edwin
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Back in 4 days. Is this a new record?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Back? Back where? Did you see how many groups this is cross-posted to?
    >>>>I'm posting to comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy myself.
    >>>>
    >>>>Edwin
    >>>
    >>>You're going to be very bored there. That group has been abandoned.

    >>
    >>
    >> Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it!

    >
    >Jealous?


    I'm not but Dee is definitely wishing he was you!


    --

    "Whoever is advising them [Democrats] on gun control
    should be shot."

    Blaine Rummel, spokesman for the Coalition to
    Stop Gun Violence.

  5. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !


    StormDrain wrote ...

    [snip]
    >given the marginal usability of windows.

    [snip]

    My, my. You certainly have a vivid imagination.

    Best regards,

    Sam Gillett aka Mars Probe @ Starship Intrepid 1-972-221-4088
    Last 8-bit BBS in the Dallas area. Commodore lives!





  6. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !

    On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:16:16 GMT, "Sam Gillett"
    wrote:

    >
    >StormDrain wrote ...
    >
    >[snip]
    >>given the marginal usability of windows.

    >[snip]
    >
    >My, my. You certainly have a vivid imagination.
    >
    >Best regards,
    >
    >Sam Gillett aka Mars Probe @ Starship Intrepid 1-972-221-4088
    > Last 8-bit BBS in the Dallas area. Commodore lives!
    >
    >
    >


    Ok, we'll let the Commodore and Amiga users cross post, even the
    Sinclair and Trash 80 users, but would you fricking PC and Mac
    advocates please stop cross posting your drivel.
    Rusty

  7. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !

    Rustynutt wrote:

    > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:16:16 GMT, "Sam Gillett"
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>StormDrain wrote ...
    >>
    >>[snip]
    >>
    >>>given the marginal usability of windows.

    >>
    >>[snip]
    >>
    >>My, my. You certainly have a vivid imagination.
    >>
    >>Best regards,
    >>
    >>Sam Gillett aka Mars Probe @ Starship Intrepid 1-972-221-4088
    >> Last 8-bit BBS in the Dallas area. Commodore lives!
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > Ok, we'll let the Commodore and Amiga users cross post, even the
    > Sinclair and Trash 80 users, but would you fricking PC and Mac
    > advocates please stop cross posting your drivel.
    > Rusty


    Who the hell do you think you are to boss the rest of us around like this???

    8-)

    --
    - How many MS engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
    - None, they just define darkness as an industry standard.


  8. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !

    Mayor of R'lyeh wrote:

    > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:26:07 -0600, Elizabot
    > chose to bless us with the following
    > wisdom:
    >
    >
    >>Mayor of R'lyeh wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:32:35 -0600, Elizabot
    >>> chose to bless us with the following
    >>>wisdom:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Edwin wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>"Elizabot" wrote in message
    >>>>>news:3f4ba96a$0$62081$75868355@news.frii.net...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Edwin wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>"Trepain" wrote in message
    >>>>>>>news:kiE_a.96101$Vt6.31543@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.n et...
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>www.macvirus.com is a site with Mac related virus information. They do
    >>>>>>>>exist on the Mac whether you have experienced them or not.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Trojans - http://members.fortunecity.com/reape...i/trojans.html
    >>>>>>>>here you will find quite a few. They also exist.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>FIXING YOUR MAC - Solving Common Mac ERRORS -
    >>>>>>>>http://www.macforce.com/support_cure.php - well I guess Macs have
    >>>>>>>>errors like any other computer.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>So you never really went into specifics. What can YOU do that I
    >>>>>>>>cannot? What can you do better on your Mac? How many times must I ask
    >>>>>>>>this?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>No Mac advocate will ever answer those questions, no matter how many
    >>>>>
    >>>>>times
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>you ask. The best they can come up with is "I just like the Mac," and
    >>>>>
    >>>>>to
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>perhaps point you to a study that compares Windows 3.x to the Mac.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>[snip]
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Edwin
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Back in 4 days. Is this a new record?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Back? Back where? Did you see how many groups this is cross-posted to?
    >>>>>I'm posting to comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy myself.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Edwin
    >>>>
    >>>>You're going to be very bored there. That group has been abandoned.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it!

    >>
    >>Jealous?

    >
    >
    > I'm not but Dee is definitely wishing he was you!


    I have better plans for Dee.


    --
    - How many MS engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
    - None, they just define darkness as an industry standard.


  9. Re: Macinosh = Crapintosh !

    Dubious that we'll ever get completely out of this argument, but hell,
    I haven't had a chance to articulate my end in a long time, so why
    not?

    I've been a Mac user and PC user since I was knee-high to a
    grasshopper. At that point, the argument was an entirely different
    one - DOS was not a pretty child. Even so, it had far better support
    for non-LAN protocol, due in large part to the licensing requirements
    for supporting a very wide range of hardware and software. I used PCs
    exclusively to dial into BBSes in the late 80s, more often than Macs
    to print, and to play most games. Macs, on the other hand, I used for
    all graphical applications (I was unfortunately not one who was able
    to afford an Amiga or an SGI when they came out). I still remember
    the first time I saw Photoshop on a Mac - THAT was a beautiful thing.
    Today I have a houseful and an office full of Macs, Windows machines,
    and *NIX boxes, each of which I use for different things and to
    varying degrees - I use *NIX for all server needs, Windows for games,
    most 3D-oriented apps, and some software that is not released for the
    Mac, and the Mac for everything else.

    Add to that the fact that I'm an interface freak, and the Mac was -
    and still is - my platform of choice. Windows took a long time to
    come anywhere near the Mac in terms of interface design, again, due in
    large part to the demands of licensing. What they lacked in GUI
    design, however, they more than made up for in business acumen and
    marketing talent, while Apple was stumbling around doing weird things
    with clones and target markets and interoperability.

    The history of both, IMHO, has a lot to do with their respective
    platform advantages. Windows, needing to license freely, has much
    better driver, device, often networking, and 3D capabilities, even
    while those capabilities DO take much more work to figure out (plug
    and play my arse. but what do you expect when you have to support 60
    printers??). Apple maintains control over almost every component and
    license, to the point of distraction at times. On the plus side this
    allows them to focus on supporting fewer third-party devices and lets
    them focus on OS functionality and chip integration, on the minus
    side...well, on the minus side it allows them to focus on supporting
    fewer third-party devices.

    At this point, 90% of software that is equivalent in version on both
    platforms is at least 90% comparable in functionality. Most is not
    equivalent in attractiveness or necessarily usability, on the other
    hand. Quite frankly, the thing that kills most graphics applications
    for me on both *NIX and Windows is the mouse tracking. Mouse tracking
    in Windows is far, far less accurate than that on a Mac, although it
    has gotten better. But my carpal tunnels just can't take having to
    use a death grip on the mouse or Wacom pen just to be as accurate as I
    can on a Mac.

    The 3D support on a Windows machine is undeniably better. OpenGL is
    getting closer, and it shows a ton of promise, but right now DirectX
    kicks its butt in both functionality and in user base - even as a Mac
    fan I just can't deny that. The Mac isn't going to get the majority
    of great games and 3D apps until it implements DirectX, even if OpenGL
    gets *better* than DirectX, simply because the porting effort and
    market share kill it for most game developers. Let alone the video
    card and other device support.

    The security argument is a useless one - it's like nature vs. nurture.
    People have spent far less time investigating flaws on Macs due to
    the small market share, so even just the available knowledge is much
    smaller. At this point we only can say that Windows certainly has
    demonstrated some pretty dumb holes, but that a lot of those holes
    have been found simply because Windows machines are so much more
    popular.

    The Mac does a few things extremely well. I am still far more capable
    of dealing with different kinds of files than Windows users. In many
    ways with both OS 9 and X, I have a finer level of control over my
    machine than I do on Windows, although it IS usually like pulling
    teeth to figure that out. The level of abstraction as pertains to
    interface within the operating system and most professional
    applications is much better. Enforcement of consistency has led to
    software that generally is able to capitalize on total install base,
    not just their own. The operating system tends to be much smarter
    about certain things than Windows is (although not necessarily always
    with the desired result - the dot-three extension requirement is a
    good example of this. The Mac OS and many of its apps have been
    better able to support multiple processors and more RAM and HD space
    until not so long ago. It requires a lot less knowledge to do things
    like put together a LAN or connect to the Internet. It has far fewer
    fear factors (at least for me) - I don't need to worry about Passport,
    for example, and I'm not very likely to have my messenger services
    turned into tunnels - issues that pervade even while I have home and
    office firewalls built by the most paranoid of sysadmins.

    Windows' bundling of Explorer and other apps into the operating system
    is also a big negative to a lot of people, and it's beginning to show
    its vulnerability in the security department (if Internet application
    can get to operating system...), although I strongly doubt that we've
    seen anything close to the beginning of that. This is certainly a
    huge point of comparison and getting bigger. It is plausible that
    what Apple lacks in device modularity they could potentially make up
    for with application modularity (although I don't see them taking
    advantage of this yet.) I don't have to worry about all my apps
    getting all tangled up and screwy and registry hacking and what have
    you. I don't WANT my apps integrated. At all.

    The support for non-3D graphics is also, in my opinion, much better.
    I have finer control, I have fonts that behave properly, and I have
    many applications that communicate with each other better than they do
    on the Mac.

    Not to mention the emotional advantages, which, for me along with many
    users, are powerful. I don't like Microsoft. A lot of people don't
    like Microsoft. I have a great deal of respect for their marketing
    ability and some other aspects, but I don't trust them at all. I sort
    of like Apple. I used to like them more than I do now. But I still
    like Mac USERS a hell of a lot better than I like your typical Windows
    user, and I still like Apple way better than I like Microsoft, and I
    *trust* them about a billion times more than I trust MS, at least when
    it comes to things like privacy.

    Windows has also, IMHO, lowered the bar on software and GUI
    development across the board, partly *because* their system is so
    accessible to newer programmers, and partly because there really can't
    be any denying that the likelihood of a version 1 (or even 2 or 3)
    Microsoft application behaving properly or containing no critical bugs
    is even less than the likelihood of version 1 Apple hardware not
    failing within three months.

    OS X has made some great strides. I don't think that we've quite
    gotten to the point Apple hoped we would be at, partly, again IMHO,
    because of their continuing (and I personally believe stupid)
    stubbornness surrounding many of the development tools. There have
    been many occasions (if not most) where the Apple documentation
    crossed the line from "easy to use" to "useless and totally
    uninformative." OS X documentation is, in fact, far less useful than
    that of any of the earlier ones (which is saying a lot), to the point
    where my exact remark to Apple was that "the only documentation
    present would appear to have been written for whatever segment of your
    userbase consists of vegetation." They segregate the users from the
    developers way, WAY too much, and those of us that are both suffer
    greatly for it. They created and launched an OS that, while it has
    huge strong points, was frankly not ready for the standard userbase,
    bet that people would buy/use it anyway (partly because we are
    diehard, and partly because we had to), and totally failed to bridge a
    lot of gaps, notably the upgrade path. I don't know offhand what the
    upgrade percentages are, but I DO know that I'm a poweruser, and I
    have been unfailingly frustrated even in just basic areas with X.

    I like OS X. I like the IDEA of OS X a lot better than I like OS X,
    and I think Apple REALLY screwed up GUI-wise in a lot of ways. I
    still like OS X ten times better than I like my XP, 98, NT (etc)
    boxes, and it does what I want it to do more dependably and generally
    better and often faster than the Windows boxes do. The software
    selection is too limited, though - Apple has never been good at
    working well with developers. This is markedly true with Adobe - I
    don't know what happened there, but for Adobe, a company that has
    launched versions on Macs since the beginning, to hold back to the
    extent they did in OS X porting is not a good sign. Even so, the
    applications that have been running on Macs since their birth continue
    to run better and more functionally - in general - on Macs than they
    do on PCs.

    If OS X can live up to its promise - delivering a machine where I can,
    in all practicality, have a UNIX server with my Mac, I will be very
    happy. Many people try to say this is already true, but I can't agree
    with that, partly because the UNIX apps on Macs take MORE effort than
    they already did - which was a lot, and which is not remotely
    user-friendly. The target market is admittedly small-ish, with few
    home users that want to write PHP and do graphic design, but I can't
    help but believe that if they could create a platform that would serve
    as well as our Linux boxes do (up to and especially including dumping
    non-core functionality when one wants to and fine-tuning the OS - this
    is a HUGE problem with X) and/or serve the needs of the desktop user,
    with no extra expenditure for either audience on their part, everyone
    would be a whole lot happier all around.

    I'm not sure that anyone can properly answer why Macs versus PCs
    completely without at least part of the answer being "Because."
    However, I think the same is true of people who love Lambourghinis
    versus Ferraris, Chinese food versus Mexican, etc. A chunk of it is
    simple subjective opinion, a chunk of it is what you grew up with, and
    what's left over is what the systems can actually do.

    Right now, much as I love the Mac, the PC is better-suited to the
    general population, and not just because of the market share. This
    has become doubly true with OS X, and this is one of the huge reasons
    that I'm nowhere near as pleased with Apple as I was ten, even five
    years ago. They have let their hardline licensing stance affect not
    only their good judgement but their ability to compete in a market of
    thousands of peripheral devices, they have not yet failed to alienate
    developers, even many who love the Mac, and for an underdog, they're
    moving dangerously close to hurting their relationships with even
    their fans, often by being ridiculously obtuse.

    As for publishing - Quark is arse on all platforms, for a lot of
    reasons, including the Mac. Many newspapers actually use custom
    systems, especially for publishing, which are usually built for TCO
    purposes on Windows boxes. Not as many of *newspapers* use Quark
    these days, though many magazines do. Font support is actually far
    less of an issue for periodicals, including newspapers, than it is for
    layout professionals and designers, since they typically have standard
    fonts that have already been repurposed for every platform in the
    organization.

    I'm hugely irked at a lot of the choices Apple made with OS X,
    especially with the GUI (and more especially because I can't CHANGE
    those options), even if I do still love them best. (Um, hi?
    Repurposing the iTunes interface for the Finder (upcoming in Panther)?
    Who's handing out the crack over there?? Y'all screwed up the Finder
    badly enough as it is!) I do really hope they quit screwing up on
    some of the fronts they have been seriously screwing up on. I'm still
    wondering why they ditched the clone possibilties, since price has
    never been more of an issue. I hope that they stop thinking of their
    userbase as morons, because we're not, and we can, in fact, deal with
    changing the security options permanently if we so choose, with
    viewing all (gasp!) of the files we want to see, with reading help
    files that contain actual information, and with changing the (GRRRR)
    freaking default options in our operating system. I hope they start
    following through on their promises to support developers better, and
    quit leaving the problems to shareware and IDE developers to address,
    often with zero (or negative, in the case of Be, for example) support
    from Apple.

    Anyway, for me what it comes down to is that yes, a lot of it IS
    emotional - and that fact is not helped by the personality split
    between PC and Mac users (which is pretty obvious) - Mac users tend to
    be pretty elitist, and PC users love to call us on it, while PC users
    can often be... um...let's just say "to be articulation-challenged,"
    (although when you serve 90% of the population, that's sort of to be
    expected, what with the standard bell curve and all) and Mac users
    love to call them on that, too. Your classic underdog versus
    900-pound-gorilla sort of thing. Apart from that, and apart from the
    "what you know" debate, the systems definitely have their strengths
    and weaknesses. No one's going to be able to separate the emotional
    from the functional, however, at least not anytime soon.

    k/b

+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6