Hans leads police to Nina's body - Mandriva

This is a discussion on Hans leads police to Nina's body - Mandriva ; On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:47:14 -0400, Adam wrote: > Moe Trin wrote: >> The lshw info you showed on Sunday seems to indicate the computer to >> router link is running 100 MB > > I assume you meant ...

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Thread: Hans leads police to Nina's body

  1. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:47:14 -0400, Adam wrote:

    > Moe Trin wrote:
    >> The lshw info you showed on Sunday seems to indicate the computer to
    >> router link is running 100 MB

    >
    > I assume you meant "100 Mb".
    >
    >> full duplex, and as is on the PCI bus, the wire speed is the limit -
    >> about 12 MegaBytes per second.

    >
    > So my motherboard's Ethernet port can handle up to 100 Mb/s (~12 MB/s)
    > of data in or out or some combination, e.g. 8 MB/s in simultaneous with
    > 4 MB/s out, at least in theory... have I got that right?


    Your estimate is somewhat out on the optimistic side.

    Ethernet starts to choke up at saturation ratios of about 60% to 90%
    depending on how good your hardware is, and that's for one-way streaming,
    changing direction reduces throughput dramatically.

    > Since USB 2.0 is supposed to handle 480 Mb/s (60 MB/s), it sounds like
    > USB would be faster, if it's a short distance. In theory, anyway.


    That 480 Mb/s figure for USB 2.0 is peak burst rate, which is why
    Firewire is faster overall for data transfers despite having a lower
    nominal speed rating.

    Doing the rate comparison yourself can be a fun project for a rainy
    weekend, too.


  2. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Fri, 01 Aug 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    , Adam wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> The lshw info you showed on Sunday seems to indicate the computer to
    >> router link is running 100 MB

    >
    >I assume you meant "100 Mb".


    Yeah - I'm so used to calling it 100BT with either a trailing H (half
    duplex) or F (full).

    >So my motherboard's Ethernet port can handle up to 100 Mb/s (~12 MB/s)
    >of data in or out or some combination, e.g. 8 MB/s in simultaneous with
    >4 MB/s out, at least in theory... have I got that right?


    Well, that depends. ;-) Yours is 100 Mb Full Duplex, so (big 'if' here)
    assuming no _other_ bottlenecks (such as bus or IRQ/DMA contention),
    you could be shoveling bits at _close_to_ 100 MegaBITs per second both
    ways less a little bit for framing and packet header overhead (roughly
    100-150 bytes per packet). Practically, it's likely to be somewhat less
    - assuming the systems on both ends of this Point-to-Point link are up
    to it. It can get a lot slower if you've got more systems present, and
    they are spreading bits to each other.

    >Since USB 2.0 is supposed to handle 480 Mb/s (60 MB/s), it sounds like
    >USB would be faster, if it's a short distance. In theory, anyway.


    That's the peak speed, but that's also buffered. You'll almost certainly
    run into other speed limits. Example - inhale or exhale a full CD, and
    it's going to take more than 12 seconds. Likewise, it's assuming no
    contention.

    >> Your printer is 10 MB half duplex [...] will be somewhat slower -
    >> say something around 750 KiloBytes per second.


    >But isn't the mechanical speed of the printer (any printer) much much
    >slower?


    Sure - want to try printing using my exceptionally ancient Epson FX850
    dot matrix printer? There _used_ to be truly ancient Daisy Wheel
    printer in the garage, but I think it got donated to Good Will.

    >Slow enough so that at almost any data speed, the printer's printing
    >as fast as it can? Sometimes this dinosaur takes 12 minutes to print
    >one page at 300 dpi color. I calculate that to be <4Kb/s.


    Start way back with parallel port printers - that interface is fairly
    slow (Mueller says 80-300 kilobytes capable), but there is an ACK pin
    (pin 10) which says the printer is acknowledging each byte as well an
    a 'BUSY pin (11) both of which control the data flow. Later versions
    of the parallel port could run faster, but that mechanical crap in the
    printer ain't gonna take that. So the next thing that got added to the
    printer interface (especially with letter quality types) was a buffer.
    That FX850 had a whole 8 kilobyte buffer. If you were using a text
    style, that would probably be as little as a third of a page or so in a
    high density (condensed) mode - maybe up to a page with "normal" fonts.
    Laser printers usually had a LOT more memory - up to several hundred
    Megs in some of the production style tanks. Now you _can_ (and a lot
    of people still do) talk to a printer using the parallel port, but if
    you are talking Lasers (or even ink jets), there's a lot of bits needed
    for the higher resolution, never mind those fancy printer languages (PDF
    or Post Script). So that's where the network printer comes in handy,
    because you can stuff that buffer real quick (a page full of ASCII is
    five Ethernet packets).

    >> I normally run the video displays at 160x50 (180 characters by 60 lines


    Arg... that should be 1280x1024, which gives 180 x 60 displays.

    >> on a "17 inch" screen) so I'm almost always using glasses at the
    >> computer.


    >The default on my "17 inch" CRT is 43 lines. I don't think my eyes
    >could stand anything much smaller.


    It's amazing how well you can get used to 2048x1536 on a 21 inch Sony.

    >> Why-for you need reset button?

    >
    >A) You mean your system has never ever locked up or trashed the display?


    Recall, I'm an old command line jockey, so I boot to runlevel 3 and then
    use 'runx' or 'startx' to fire up the desktop after I log in. Also, I
    don't worry about using the latest/greatest eye-candy. In the event X
    gets trashed, I have several options from Left Ctrl+ALT+F2 combination
    which brings me to another virtual console (I run six, so the Left ALT+F7
    brings me back to the GUI), or I can use Left Ctrl+ALT+Backspace to kill
    X. If you are using a GUI login (runlevel 5), this will also 'restart' X.

    Second option - SSH in over the LAN from another system.

    Third option - wait for all disk activity to cease, then hit the
    switch on the power strip.

    >B) Because it was there. That is, it wasn't there, but one of the
    >motherboard headers had the pins for it.


    Depending on the file system you are using (I've seen a reset switch
    or power cycle kick a ReiserFS _or_ EXT3 in the teeth - and that tends
    to be a messy recovery). Give it some time (seconds) for the drives to
    quiet down, then hit the reset or power-cycle it. Yes, the reset _is_
    preferred, because the /RESET signal goes to disk-drives, NICs, and
    the CPU and stops things RIGHT NOW. That's the reason you want to wait
    until disk activity has stopped, so you don't interrupt things right
    in the middle of writing something (some extremely critical thing).

    >> In the late 1960s, I was using a 25x binocular microscope


    >Like these: http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/obscure.html ?


    (Not coming up for me) Hey - it's been a few years, but this was a
    Bausch & Lomb boat anchor with two built-in lamps (bulbs had a life
    of about 25 hours).

    >I heard about microscopes similar to that from people who'd been on
    >IBM's semiconductor assembly lines in the '80s, doing inspections.


    They had these in the Rework and Inspection areas, as well as in
    Engineering. The assembly people used large desk magnifiers (6 inch
    lens with circular fluorescent around the lens) because they were using
    a magic tool that spot-welded all 14 or 16 flatpack leads at one go.

    >I solder something about once every two or three years. Sometimes it
    >succeeds.


    I actually soldered two wires to a connector last week.

    >Seat at highest position, 20" from floor; no armrests (cheap chair).
    >Maybe I should look into getting a better chair with armrests,
    >especially if I can get a used one cheap.


    Target and WalMart had some a month or so ago - the back rest isn't
    that great (hard plastic), but arm rests are OK - price about $24.

    >Meanwhile, after three days with lower keyboard, carpal tunnel symptoms
    >are already reduced.


    That's a good sign. Do you have _any_ access to a computer where they've
    got the keyboard at a reasonable height AND they have chairs with arm
    rests?

    >I considered expansion fasteners, but didn't think those would work
    >given the thin surface of the door and the direction the weight would
    >be pulling.


    Depends - I'd prefer to err on the strong side, knowing that at work
    I've got head in hand staring at something on the monitor.

    >I picked 1" flat washers, and it's good and secure. Now I have four
    >bolt-heads and washers marring my otherwise flat desktop, but that's
    >only an aesthetic problem. I also have a lot more free desk space,
    >partly from moving the keyboard off


    That space will soon be occupied.

    >but mainly from clearing the clutter so I could get to the desktop to
    >install the thing.


    At work, they have a clean desktop rule whenever you aren't at the
    desk, but at home? I try to shovel it off weekly.

    >Rented apartment, so I didn't want to buy something I'd never use
    >again. Will epoxy there cause any problems?


    Epoxy is a rather loose definition covering a lot of glues. In most
    cases, it shouldn't be a problem.

    >> Didn't you get that running?

    >
    >Nope. Didn't know if it worked, would have had to buy new battery
    >($100+) just to find out.


    Couldn't get some clip-leads and borrow an auto battery?

    >Decided I'd be better off spending that $100 on a new UPS meant for a
    >home system.


    My wife and I both have "stand-alone" company systems that aren't
    allowed to be talking to anything locally, so they've each got their
    own cheapy. The rest of the computers (and the network switch and one
    monitor) share a 2.5 KVA monster and use network shutdown from the
    one system that is talking to the UPS.

    >Those are separate. I meant picking up old furniture, large appliances,
    >anything that won't fit in an ordinary garbage bin.


    Appliances may be subject to a recycling or Hazmat fee, but "large"
    pickups cost me $10 with a one business day notice. Not sure if that pays
    for the time and mileage any more. But then, I'm also being dinged $25.45
    a month plus tax for "solid waste services" (the regular and quarterly
    pickups, plus the costs of running the dump site).

    >What I'm referring to is large bulky things that aren't worth recycling,
    >and would just get hauled off to a landfill or something. The more
    >individuals pick up, the less work the town's crew has to do.


    Like I said - put a tag on the item that looks like Recycling Service
    and it's gone - you don't even have to call for a pickup. ;-)

    [Recycling scroungers]

    >Not where I am now, but it was common where I used to live. Sometimes
    >they'd rummage through the dumpster too, which was right outside my
    >window.


    Most seem to know to avoid the dumpster - as that raises the probability
    of a week or two at the Sheriff's resort downtown.

    >> Oiled stone is not uncommon here - no snowplows to tear it up.


    >I don't think I've seen that.


    On the Gulf coast of Florida, the crushed stone is often replaced with
    crushed oyster shell.

    >I have relatives in Vermont who live on unpaved roads, but I think
    >those may just be packed dirt or something.


    Mentioned - snowplows and/or ice tear the surface, so oiled stone would
    be out. Oiled _sand_ may be OK as long as the roadbed was built well
    enough to eliminate frost-heaves. Yeah, you can have packed dirt roads
    because it rains often enough to keep the dust down.

    >I've seen unpaved roads, but never one that was under state maintenance.


    They're getting rare here, but I think they were county or native roads
    that the state got conned into taking over. Don't forget that we have
    Federal and Native American roads in addition to state, county, and
    municipal roads. Close to a third of the state is reservations. I'm
    guessing you have some kind of road map. The area East of Flagstaff and
    generally North of I-40 is part of the Navajo Nation, and excluding US
    160, 163, and 191, and five state routes (77, 87, 89, 98, 264), the
    remaining roads are tribal.

    Old guy

  3. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On 2 Aug 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    <489389dd$1_7@news.bluewin.ch>, Mark Madsen wrote:

    >Adam wrote:


    > Moe Trin wrote:


    >>> full duplex, and as is on the PCI bus, the wire speed is the limit
    >>> - about 12 MegaBytes per second.


    >> So my motherboard's Ethernet port can handle up to 100 Mb/s (~12
    >> MB/s) of data in or out or some combination, e.g. 8 MB/s in
    >> simultaneous with 4 MB/s out, at least in theory... have I got
    >> that right?

    >
    >Your estimate is somewhat out on the optimistic side.
    >
    >Ethernet starts to choke up at saturation ratios of about 60% to 90%
    >depending on how good your hardware is, and that's for one-way
    >streaming,


    Ah, but how are you measuring those speeds? Working up the network
    stack from the bottom, you've got a 6 byte preamble, 14 byte header
    (RFC0894 or classic DIX [1]), 4 byte trailer, and an inter-packet gap
    of a few microseconds - perhaps 1 to 10 bytes equivalent. Then you've
    got an IP header of 20 to 60 bytes, and then a TCP header of another
    20 to 60 bytes before you get to the actual data - and who knows what
    (if any) overhead may be in the data portion of the packet. Thus, your
    1518 octet packet (which actually occupies 1525 to 1535 octets of time)
    is delivering 1460 to 1380 octets of "data" - 95.7 to 89.9% of the wire
    capacity. (Yeah, I know about jumbograms, but I doubt very many home
    users do, never mind have them enabled.) Then you've got to get the
    packets on/off the FIFO on the NIC, and from/to a useful location in
    RAM... I'll wait here while the video display is getting the eye-candy
    updated... can I have the bus now? And all of this assumes an
    otherwise idle Ethernet link - as additional hosts may contend for the
    available bandwidth.

    >changing direction reduces throughput dramatically.


    Depends - here, his link is full-duplex, so life won't be to painful.
    Of course, what _else_ are you downloading at the same time? ;-)
    In a TCP connection, the receiving host has to ACK the sequence
    numbers, and each ACK packet takes a minimum of 46 octets plus the
    Ethernet overhead. However, ACKs need not be sent for _every_ received
    packet (think window size in the TCP header).

    Old guy

    [1] RFC1042 - IEEE 802.2/802.3 - has 8 additional bytes in the header
    which reduces the "data" by the same amount.

  4. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    Mark Madsen wrote:
    >> So my motherboard's Ethernet port can handle up to 100 Mb/s (~12 MB/s)
    >> of data in or out or some combination, e.g. 8 MB/s in simultaneous with
    >> 4 MB/s out, at least in theory... have I got that right?


    Thanks for your reply, Mark! That's why I added "at least in theory."
    :-) I know that in the real world, nothing is ever as good as the specs.

    > Ethernet starts to choke up at saturation ratios of about 60% to 90%
    > depending on how good your hardware is, and that's for one-way streaming,
    > changing direction reduces throughput dramatically.


    Ok, I'll have to look into that if I ever have anything fast enough.
    ATM my little LAN has one computer, one 3Mbps/768Kbps DSL connection,
    and one printer (quite slow by comparison). It sounds like things
    should be able to run at full speed, at least until I get a 20-40 Mbps
    online connection.

    > That 480 Mb/s figure for USB 2.0 is peak burst rate, which is why
    > Firewire is faster overall for data transfers despite having a lower
    > nominal speed rating.


    Well, this box has USB 2.0 ports but no Firewire ports, so that's a
    consideration. Does anybody have a rough figure for real-world data
    transfer speed of a USB 2.0 external HD?

    Adam


  5. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:30:48 -0400, Adam wrote:

    > Mark Madsen wrote:
    >>> So my motherboard's Ethernet port can handle up to 100 Mb/s (~12 MB/s)
    >>> of data in or out or some combination, e.g. 8 MB/s in simultaneous
    >>> with 4 MB/s out, at least in theory... have I got that right?

    >
    > Thanks for your reply, Mark! That's why I added "at least in theory."
    > :-) I know that in the real world, nothing is ever as good as the
    > specs.


    Ethernet has always been pretty close to the specs, but implementations
    vary widely and depend on the quality of the underlying hardware.

    >> Ethernet starts to choke up at saturation ratios of about 60% to 90%
    >> depending on how good your hardware is, and that's for one-way
    >> streaming, changing direction reduces throughput dramatically.

    >
    > Ok, I'll have to look into that if I ever have anything fast enough. ATM
    > my little LAN has one computer, one 3Mbps/768Kbps DSL connection, and
    > one printer (quite slow by comparison). It sounds like things should be
    > able to run at full speed, at least until I get a 20-40 Mbps online
    > connection.


    Yes, most people have local networks that are way faster than their WAN
    connections. Which makes it strange how people hurried to upgrade
    wireless-B to wireless-G when even B could easily saturate most home DSL
    connections.

    >> That 480 Mb/s figure for USB 2.0 is peak burst rate, which is why
    >> Firewire is faster overall for data transfers despite having a lower
    >> nominal speed rating.

    >
    > Well, this box has USB 2.0 ports but no Firewire ports, so that's a
    > consideration. Does anybody have a rough figure for real-world data
    > transfer speed of a USB 2.0 external HD?


    That depends heavily on the actual disk and its box hardware too. In
    practice, the average speed is way lower than the peak speed.

  6. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:30:57 -0400,
    Adam wrote:

    > I remember daisy-wheel printers. I've even had to use an ASR33 TTY.


    Ah, the venerable ASR33 - I remember the joys of 110 baud, ribbon and
    paper-roll changing, and even the 33's built-in paper tape reader/punch
    (/shredder) ... those were the days, eh? *sigh* ;-)

    --
    Bill Mullen
    RLU #270075



  7. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Mon, 4 Aug 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    <20080804162205.0d87298b@lunarhub.com>, Bill Mullen wrote:

    >Adam wrote:
    >
    >> I remember daisy-wheel printers. I've even had to use an ASR33 TTY.

    >
    >Ah, the venerable ASR33 - I remember the joys of 110 baud, ribbon and
    >paper-roll changing, and even the 33's built-in paper tape reader/punch
    >(/shredder) ... those were the days, eh? *sigh* ;-)


    YOU!!! GO TO YOUR ROOM! No television for you tonight.

    Old guy

  8. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    Mark Madsen wrote:
    >> It sounds like things should be
    >> able to run at full speed, at least until I get a 20-40 Mbps online
    >> connection.

    >
    > Yes, most people have local networks that are way faster than their WAN
    > connections. Which makes it strange how people hurried to upgrade
    > wireless-B to wireless-G when even B could easily saturate most home DSL
    > connections.


    Some people simply must have the latest and greatest, even when there's
    no practical advantage. That applies to all things, not just computers.
    I'm happy with "good enough," and it's a lot cheaper.

    >> Does anybody have a rough figure for real-world data
    >> transfer speed of a USB 2.0 external HD?

    >
    > That depends heavily on the actual disk and its box hardware too. In
    > practice, the average speed is way lower than the peak speed.


    Okay, when I get closer to buying an external HD, I'll find out about
    specific models. Thanks again for all your advice on this!

    Adam


  9. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    Bill Mullen wrote:
    > Adam wrote:
    >
    >> I remember daisy-wheel printers. I've even had to use an ASR33 TTY.

    >
    > Ah, the venerable ASR33 - I remember the joys of 110 baud, ribbon and
    > paper-roll changing, and even the 33's built-in paper tape reader/punch
    > (/shredder) ... those were the days, eh? *sigh* ;-)


    That was a little before my time... I started college (fall '79) *just*
    before they replaced the ASR33s with somekinda DEC printing terminal,
    and I never actually used paper tape. In high school, the "computer
    room" was two DECWriter II printing terminals, connected via 300 baud
    acoustic coupler modems. During that time, I also had occasional use of
    an IBM 5100 or 5110.

    Of course I had a Digi-Comp ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digi-Comp_I )
    in the '60s. And my mother still remembers a late '40s school field
    trip to go and see an actual computer.

    Adam

  10. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > Assume 4 systems, A, B, C, and D and an Ethernet switch that handles
    > full duplex. A can talk to B _and_ C can talk to D at "full" speed
    > ("100 Megabit/sec" each way). The problems come in when B isn't
    > a 100 Mb interface (then the switch has to buffer/convert which would
    > slow down the A-B connection), or when two or three system want to
    > talk to one box at the same time.


    I realize that no one system can handle more than 100 Mb/s, or whatever
    its limit is, and that each connection is limited by the slowest part of
    the link. A friend sent me an email that included the following. (I
    realize it's bad form to quote a private email in a NG, but there's
    nothing personal here.)

    > My friend's external 500 GB drive that connects via Gigabit
    > ethernet only transfers data at about 14 MB/sec [...] At
    > home I'm able to transfer data from my Desktop to Laptop at 40.5
    > MB/sec using FTP over Gigabit ethernet


    So it sounds like mechanical limitations pretty much limit the transfer
    speed anyway.

    > Yeah - I used to print my "book list" (author, title - ~115 characters
    > per line average) and it took forever. I cheated, as I had access to
    > a page printer - but that was over sixty pages.


    In '86-'87, I came up with a combination of programs and scripts that,
    from one command, would invoke the microcomputer's word processor with
    the specified file, print it to disk, massage the output to add MTS
    carriage control, dial up the university mainframe, upload it, submit it
    to the page printer, then log off and delete all the intermediate files.
    By the time I walked the few blocks to the computer center, it would
    be ready for pickup. Obviously, this was only practical for final drafts.

    There have been several times I've had a printer running all night, or
    close to it.

    >> How important is the size of the printer buffer nowadays, since
    >> everything's also buffered by the OS, to RAM or HD?

    >
    > As few are printing raw ascii,


    I do sometimes, but usually less than a few pages.

    > the printer usually wants the entire
    > page before it will print. This means you probably do want the
    > buffer in the printer. People forget how much larger a document quality
    > print-job is when compared to a raw ASCII.


    'lpq' shows me that a few pages of text can be several MB when printed
    as a graphic. My inkjet has only a 56K buffer, but seems to have no
    problem printing while it receives. The laserjet has 52M or 58M
    depending on who's counting, but I calculate that should be enough for a
    page at 300x300 dpi and 32 bits/pixel. The next time I find the manual,
    I'll see what it says.

    >>> Recall, I'm an old command line jockey, so I boot to runlevel 3 and
    >>> then use 'runx' or 'startx' to fire up the desktop after I log in.

    >> On the advice of several people here, I've been doing the same.

    >
    > Main reason for me is that all of the servers I work with lack X, so
    > I'm just used to the command line. It's a lot faster.


    I grew up with command lines. I use a mixture of the command line and
    GUIs -- I find some things are easier for me one way or the other. I
    feel a little sorry for the people who can only use GUIs -- something
    like, say:

    $ egrep -v "[[:upper:]]{2,}$" file1 | lp -d bw -

    is easier for me that way. Of course my command line skills pale
    besides those of the experts here.

    >> ... that's when a reset button is useful, instead of power cycling.

    >
    > True - and at home, my systems have the reset switch, behind a switch
    > guard to prevent accidental stuff.


    On my current system, I put the reset switch on the back, so (a) it
    wouldn't get pressed accidentally, and (b) neatness didn't matter. I
    don't think I could add anything to the front panel and have it look
    like it belonged there.

    >>>> http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/obscure.html

    >
    > Oh, my GHOD!!! Yeah, about 2/3 of the way down that page, there are
    > some Signetics chips

    [snip]

    Those are before my time -- the first time I actually did anything with
    ICs was probably spring '80, and they were 74xx TTL DIPs on a breadboard.

    > As I recall, these were Chinese made "store brand" chairs with a
    > pneumatic height adjustment and hand screw back adjustment. I don't
    > recall the armrests being adjustable, but they aren't adjustable on
    > the chair I'm using now. The ones with the padded fabric seat, back
    > and arm rests were somewhat higher priced.


    The price range of desk chairs seems amazing, $25 to $400. I'll look
    for something with armrests near the low end of that range. Target,
    Wal-Mart, Big Lots, the Salvation Army, yard sales, sheriff's auctions
    (where my previous chair came from), and so forth.

    > Assuming you could power the LJ and UPS off of one outlet (LJs are very
    > power hungry),


    I know; the LJ's manual recommends it be on its own 15A circuit, but my
    apartment has 16 120V outlets on 4 or 5 15A/20A breakers.

    > I'd make do with a single surge protected power strip
    > feeding both.


    That's almost what I have now, everything off one surge-protected power
    strip which is also a phone line surge protector. I hadn't thought of
    plugging the UPS into the power strip, but that should work, even though
    I'd no longer have one "master switch" for the whole system. I'm giving
    my ergonomics project higher priority for now, though. That's one
    problem with computers as a hobby -- there's always something on the
    to-buy list. Actually nearly every hobby seems to require ongoing
    expenditures. There are a very few that don't, but most of those aren't
    very exciting.

    > Good Will, St. Vincent de Paul, Big Brothers/Sisters, Viet Nam Vets,
    > and at least two or three others make pickups of unwanted/recycled
    > stuff.


    That may happen around here too, but I think it's all by request, and
    for large loads only. I'm not sure what they do about receipts. When I
    was moving out of my previous apartment I just carried my old clothes
    the two blocks to the Salvation Army store and didn't bother with
    getting receipts.

    >>> [Recycling scroungers]
    >>> Most seem to know to avoid the dumpster - as that raises the probability
    >>> of a week or two at the Sheriff's resort downtown.


    I think the ones in my old neighborhood didn't touch the recycling bins,
    just the general-use dumpsters, so what they took would only have gone
    to the landfill anyway. I never watched them at work, but I could
    recognize the sound of their shopping carts being pushed along the
    sidewalk. I was tempted to give them whatever deposit bottles I had in
    my apartment, figuring they needed the few cents more than I did.

    >> I just learned that the road I live along, which is county maintenance,
    >> was under state maintenance until 1980. I'll have to ask my neighbor,
    >> who's lived on this road for about 50 years.

    >
    > I know of a number of roads like that in California, but then, what ever
    > happened to US Route 66? ;-)


    I took a photo in San Diego County that shows, all in one shot, I-8, US
    80 which was replaced by I-8, and the OLD road that was replaced by US
    80. I also have some photos showing the stages of a bit of US 80 after
    the maintenance stopped.

    I once took the train from LA to Chi, and both ends roughly follow US
    66, but the middle is farther north, going through Kansas instead of
    Texas and Oklahoma.

    >>> the Navajo Nation

    >
    > New Mexico West of Farmington to a bit South of I-40, Utah South of Lake
    > Powell and the San Juan river, yes. In Colorado, the area South of
    > Cortez (and a small section in New Mexico) and Durango, nearly over to
    > US-84 is Ute - quite a different group.


    I forget how large things are out west. From where I am right now, I
    can drive less than two hours and be in any of four other states.

    >> I think that was where I got the cheapest cigarettes I mentioned
    >> several posts ago.

    >
    > In theory, you should have paid duty on those when you "reentered" the
    > US. Yeah, I know. The concept of sovereign nations within the various
    > states of the US is something that many people can't get their heads
    > around - both US citizens and overseas visitors.


    I have no problem grasping the concept. However, the only "borders"
    that I recall were road signs. IIRC the only checkpoint along the
    entire cross-country drive was when entering California, and their main
    concern was fresh fruit.

    Adam

  11. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Wed, 06 Aug 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    , Adam wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >A friend sent me an email that included the following.


    >] My friend's external 500 GB drive that connects via Gigabit
    >] ethernet only transfers data at about 14 MB/sec [...] At
    >] home I'm able to transfer data from my Desktop to Laptop at 40.5
    >] MB/sec using FTP over Gigabit ethernet
    >
    >So it sounds like mechanical limitations pretty much limit the transfer
    >speed anyway.


    Hard to say - this could be STRONGLY influenced by the software protocols
    used to transfer the data. Example - mounting the external drive using
    NFS over Ethernet - the speed depends on parameters used in NFS (which
    uses UDP rather than TCP (no connection tracking at the stack level,
    transfers at some block size - typically 4096 bytes). The NFS-HOWTO
    has a lot of material about link parameters.

    >> Yeah - I used to print my "book list" (author, title - ~115 characters
    >> per line average) and it took forever. I cheated, as I had access to
    >> a page printer - but that was over sixty pages.


    >There have been several times I've had a printer running all night, or
    >close to it.


    I printed the book list Tuesday evening - 95 pages, or about 22 minutes.

    >> Main reason for me is that all of the servers I work with lack X, so
    >> I'm just used to the command line. It's a lot faster.

    >
    >I grew up with command lines. I use a mixture of the command line and
    >GUIs -- I find some things are easier for me one way or the other. I
    >feel a little sorry for the people who can only use GUIs -- something
    >like, say:
    >
    >$ egrep -v "[[:upper:]]{2,}$" file1 | lp -d bw -
    >
    >is easier for me that way.


    ;-)

    >Of course my command line skills pale besides those of the experts here.


    It's an experience thing. A lot of people don't want to spend any time
    learning this exotic style of incantations, and don't realize the stuff
    they are missing. If there is an icon they can click on or a pull-down
    menu item, they're happy...

    Start->Control Panel->Administrative Tools->Computer
    Management->Obscure Options->Something To Do With->
    Something Else->Not Where You Were Expecting It->No,
    This Bit, Not That Bit->Dig A Bit Deeper->Keep Going->
    Not Long Now->Almost There->****, I'm Sure It Was Round
    Here Somewhere->Found It!->No, It's Grayed Out->D4mn!.

    otherwise, it obviously can't be done, and there is no use trying.

    >> True - and at home, my systems have the reset switch, behind a
    >> switch guard to prevent accidental stuff.

    >
    >On my current system, I put the reset switch on the back, so (a) it
    >wouldn't get pressed accidentally, and (b) neatness didn't matter. I
    >don't think I could add anything to the front panel and have it look
    >like it belonged there.


    I've still got some cases that came with front-panel push-buttons,
    and fit plastic caps made from cut-down prescription drug containers
    so that you have to stick the finger into a short cylinder to actuate
    the switch. On the other hand, a friend has young children who are
    fascinated by that switch guard, and delight in poking the switch
    that is hidden there. His children, so he hasn't killed them or
    broken their hands to discourage this activity...

    >> Oh, my GHOD!!! Yeah, about 2/3 of the way down that page, there are
    >> some Signetics chips


    >Those are before my time -- the first time I actually did anything
    >with ICs was probably spring '80, and they were 74xx TTL DIPs on a
    >breadboard.


    Slightly different sockets, but they existed. A quick look through a
    couple of catalogs doesn't show any now, but then these packages are
    not that common any more either.

    >The price range of desk chairs seems amazing, $25 to $400. I'll look
    >for something with armrests near the low end of that range. Target,
    >Wal-Mart, Big Lots, the Salvation Army, yard sales, sheriff's auctions
    >(where my previous chair came from), and so forth.


    HIGHLY recommended. It makes a definite difference.

    >> I'd make do with a single surge protected power strip
    >> feeding both.

    >
    >That's almost what I have now, everything off one surge-protected
    >power strip which is also a phone line surge protector. I hadn't
    >thought of plugging the UPS into the power strip, but that should
    >work, even though I'd no longer have one "master switch" for the whole
    >system.


    The only reason I was suggesting the single power strip is the surge
    protection - common grounds and all that. I wouldn't use the power
    switch on that strip normally. The output of my big UPS goes to a
    distribution strip, and plugged into that are small switched power
    strips (2-6 outlets - depending on where I found them) that I use
    for switching off power to the various computers/switch/monitor that
    are powered by that UPS. The printers (two networked, one on an A/B
    switch to the company computers) are powered from the common
    surge protectors in front of the UPSs.

    >I'm giving my ergonomics project higher priority for now, though.
    >That's one problem with computers as a hobby -- there's always
    >something on the to-buy list. Actually nearly every hobby seems to
    >require ongoing expenditures. There are a very few that don't, but
    >most of those aren't very exciting.


    Be glad your hobby isn't flying planes - 100LL gas at $6.999 a gallon,
    JET-A turbine fuel slightly higher - and that's down from 2 weeks ago.

    >That may happen around here too, but I think it's all by request, and
    >for large loads only. I'm not sure what they do about receipts. When
    >I was moving out of my previous apartment I just carried my old clothes
    >the two blocks to the Salvation Army store and didn't bother with
    >getting receipts.


    I got two calls last night - one from a "Charter" school (private
    school), the other from Big Sisters - "we'll have a truck on your
    street on $WEEKDAY - have you got any $THINGS you'd like us to pick up?"

    When we moved here in 1996, I had to leave one vehicle parked outside
    of the garage, as that was where we were stacking stuff to go to St.
    Vinnie's. I think I took over four or five pickup loads. But then, I'd
    bet I'd have to do the same thing now if we were to move. It's amazing
    how much "stuff" you collect.

    >I forget how large things are out west. From where I am right now, I
    >can drive less than two hours and be in any of four other states.


    My wife is a native Californian, and she had the same problems getting
    used to the idea of driving from Waterbury area to Pennsylvania, or
    Maine in only a short time.

    >I have no problem grasping the concept. However, the only "borders"
    >that I recall were road signs. IIRC the only checkpoint along the
    >entire cross-country drive was when entering California, and their
    >main concern was fresh fruit.


    Yup - in the 1980s, they had an outbreak of the Mediterranean Fruit
    Fly in central California - which the state took seriously enough to
    have a five-six month aerial spray program - in the Bay area, this was
    UH-1Ds and 1Hs flying in formation at 100' AGL spraying malathion. In
    the Central Valley (roughly a 40 mile stretch centered on Modesto), they
    were using DC-4s at 2500 feet AGL also with malathion. Recall,
    agriculture is a very important part of the state economy.

    Old guy

  12. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:04:29 -0500, Moe Trin wrote:

    >>That's almost what I have now, everything off one surge-protected power
    >>strip which is also a phone line surge protector. I hadn't thought of
    >>plugging the UPS into the power strip, but that should work, even though
    >>I'd no longer have one "master switch" for the whole system.

    >
    > The only reason I was suggesting the single power strip is the surge
    > protection - common grounds and all that. I wouldn't use the power
    > switch on that strip normally. The output of my big UPS goes to a
    > distribution strip, and plugged into that are small switched power
    > strips (2-6 outlets - depending on where I found them) that I use for
    > switching off power to the various computers/switch/monitor that are
    > powered by that UPS. The printers (two networked, one on an A/B switch
    > to the company computers) are powered from the common surge protectors
    > in front of the UPSs.


    If the UPS has its own surge protection built in the effect of having two
    surge protectors in series *may* prevent the UPS switching in upon power
    failure. It's not a sure thing, but it's worth testing your own specific
    combination to make sure.

  13. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On 2008-08-07, Mark Madsen wrote:
    > On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:04:29 -0500, Moe Trin wrote:
    >
    >>>That's almost what I have now, everything off one surge-protected power
    >>>strip which is also a phone line surge protector. I hadn't thought of
    >>>plugging the UPS into the power strip, but that should work, even though
    >>>I'd no longer have one "master switch" for the whole system.

    >>
    >> The only reason I was suggesting the single power strip is the surge
    >> protection - common grounds and all that. I wouldn't use the power
    >> switch on that strip normally. The output of my big UPS goes to a
    >> distribution strip, and plugged into that are small switched power
    >> strips (2-6 outlets - depending on where I found them) that I use for
    >> switching off power to the various computers/switch/monitor that are
    >> powered by that UPS. The printers (two networked, one on an A/B switch
    >> to the company computers) are powered from the common surge protectors
    >> in front of the UPSs.

    >
    > If the UPS has its own surge protection built in the effect of having two
    > surge protectors in series *may* prevent the UPS switching in upon power
    > failure. It's not a sure thing, but it's worth testing your own specific
    > combination to make sure.


    (By "surge protector", I assume you mean the TVSS-type
    devices common put in power strips, larger cube-tap-like
    devices, etc. with (usually) an internal fuse and a MOV that
    shunts off excessive voltages.)

    How could having one or more surge protectors upstream from
    a UPS have any effect on the UPS's ability to supply its
    downstream load if its upstream source went dead? If you
    know of some specific situation please explain further.

    I would happily connect three of four power strips with TVSS
    daisy-chained to feed a UPS, as long as total loads at all
    points were within ratings, etc. There's no way a TVSS
    upstream from a UPS can prevent the UPS from switching on in
    a power outage. The worst that could happen is the power
    strip breaker trips or the TVSS fuse blows and causes a
    power outage at the input of the UPS.

    (For purposes of credibility assessment, my BS was in EE. I
    have also done several residential electrical projects,
    complete with permits and inspections. On at least one, the
    inspector said he didn't need to look inside the wiring
    boxes, because he liked my work.)

    --
    Robert Riches
    spamtrap42@verizon.net
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

  14. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    Moe Trin wrote:

    >>> I'd make do with a single surge protected power strip
    >>> feeding both.

    >> That's almost what I have now, everything off one surge-protected
    >> power strip which is also a phone line surge protector. I hadn't
    >> thought of plugging the UPS into the power strip, but that should
    >> work, even though I'd no longer have one "master switch" for the whole
    >> system.

    >
    > The only reason I was suggesting the single power strip is the surge
    > protection - common grounds and all that. I wouldn't use the power
    > switch on that strip normally. The output of my big UPS goes to a
    > distribution strip, and plugged into that are small switched power
    > strips (2-6 outlets - depending on where I found them) that I use
    > for switching off power to the various computers/switch/monitor that
    > are powered by that UPS. The printers (two networked, one on an A/B
    > switch to the company computers) are powered from the common
    > surge protectors in front of the UPSs.
    >
    > Old guy


    Hey Old Guy,
    Couple weeks ago, we had a storm go thru and a power surge into our
    house. Took out my computer, 3 ports on the 4 port router, and the
    control board of our furnace/AC. All 3 are on 3 different circuit
    breakers, and 2 of them on different sides of the breaker box. Am
    thinking of getting a whole house surge protector. What are your
    thoughts? Nothing else in the house was touched, nor any body else's on
    the block. Could have lost some expensive toys.
    (On that router, one port still works and so does the wireless
    portion of it. Linksys WRT54G Now I have the WRT54G2)

    Jenn

  15. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Friday 08 August 2008 18:03, someone identifying as *Jennifer
    Coopersmith* wrote in /alt.os.linux.mandriva:/

    > Moe Trin wrote:
    >
    >> The only reason I was suggesting the single power strip is the surge
    >> protection - common grounds and all that. I wouldn't use the power
    >> switch on that strip normally. The output of my big UPS goes to a
    >> distribution strip, and plugged into that are small switched power
    >> strips (2-6 outlets - depending on where I found them) that I use
    >> for switching off power to the various computers/switch/monitor that
    >> are powered by that UPS. The printers (two networked, one on an A/B
    >> switch to the company computers) are powered from the common
    >> surge protectors in front of the UPSs.

    >
    > Hey Old Guy,


    I'm not him, but I'd still like to put in my two cents as well... :-)

    > Couple weeks ago, we had a storm go thru and a power surge into our
    > house. Took out my computer, 3 ports on the 4 port router, and the
    > control board of our furnace/AC.


    I feel your pain. I had a similar thing happen to me back in 2000. The
    computer was only six weeks old and it was a very expensive one. First
    things to go were the monitor, the NIC, the cable modem - which is the
    property of my ISP - and the videocard.

    After all was replaced, the machine still lasted for about a year, but with
    extreme instability - it would lock up solid once every two weeks, with
    increasing frequency, until finally it locked up solid every day. After
    that year, one day it locked up, I rebooted and it didn't even POST
    anymore... :-/

    > All 3 are on 3 different circuit breakers, and 2 of them on different
    > sides of the breaker box. Am thinking of getting a whole house surge
    > protector.


    I would definitely recommend that, but it still wouldn't be a miracle
    solution.

    > What are your thoughts? Nothing else in the house was touched, nor any
    > body else's on the block. Could have lost some expensive toys.


    As I understand it, a lighting strike close by doesn't necessarily overload
    your local power grid - although it *can* do that and thus such a surge
    protector is really a good thing to have - but the real danger lies in the
    EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse).

    See, during a thunderstorm, the air becomes a localized mixture of regular
    gaseous air and ionized air - i.e. plasma - and so when lightning strikes
    nearby, the plasma serves as a conductant for the EMP, and as soon as it
    encounters any kind of electrical lead like a power cable, an UTP cable or
    something of the likes, it spreads from there across the length of that
    lead, destroying whatever sophisticated electronics are at its ends.

    Now, you could think that then perhaps wireless network connections are
    safer than cabled networks, and to a certain degree that's true, but we're
    already "polluting" the air with so much electromagnetic radiation - from
    wireless network connectors, cellphone antennae, and various other sources,
    that this radiation may in itself also already ionize the air under the
    right circumstances.

    Electromagnetic radiation does that. In fact, the US Military - and
    possibly in the near future other militaries and law enforcement agencies
    all over the world as well - already have a weapon system known as an
    electrolaser. It works by directing a powerful (yet invisible) laser beam
    onto a target. The laser then causes /blooming/ - i.e. it ionizes the air
    along its path - and this forms an electroconductive plasma channel,
    through which then an electric surge is fired. This way, they can stun
    (and possibly kill) a person at long distance, or even take out an incoming
    missile, or dispose of dangerous explosives from a safe distance without
    that there need be a conductive wire between the weapon and the target.

    Bottom line, there's little to no protection against lightning, except for
    Faraday's cage maybe, but it's not very practical to build houses that way,
    especially in the US, where regular houses usually have a wooden frame (as
    opposed to here in Europe where houses are usually built with inner and
    outer walls of cemented bricks or concrete blocks).

    The forces of nature... :-/

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  16. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    Aragorn wrote:
    > On Friday 08 August 2008 18:03, someone identifying as *Jennifer
    > Coopersmith* wrote in /alt.os.linux.mandriva:/
    >
    >
    >> Moe Trin wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> The only reason I was suggesting the single power strip is the surge
    >>> protection - common grounds and all that. I wouldn't use the power
    >>> switch on that strip normally. The output of my big UPS goes to a
    >>> distribution strip, and plugged into that are small switched power
    >>> strips (2-6 outlets - depending on where I found them) that I use
    >>> for switching off power to the various computers/switch/monitor that
    >>> are powered by that UPS. The printers (two networked, one on an A/B
    >>> switch to the company computers) are powered from the common
    >>> surge protectors in front of the UPSs.
    >>>

    >> Hey Old Guy,
    >>

    >
    > I'm not him, but I'd still like to put in my two cents as well... :-)
    >
    >
    >> Couple weeks ago, we had a storm go thru and a power surge into our
    >> house. Took out my computer, 3 ports on the 4 port router, and the
    >> control board of our furnace/AC.
    >>

    >
    > I feel your pain. I had a similar thing happen to me back in 2000. The
    > computer was only six weeks old and it was a very expensive one. First
    > things to go were the monitor, the NIC, the cable modem - which is the
    > property of my ISP - and the videocard.
    >
    > After all was replaced, the machine still lasted for about a year, but with
    > extreme instability - it would lock up solid once every two weeks, with
    > increasing frequency, until finally it locked up solid every day. After
    > that year, one day it locked up, I rebooted and it didn't even POST
    > anymore... :-/
    >
    >
    >> All 3 are on 3 different circuit breakers, and 2 of them on different
    >> sides of the breaker box. Am thinking of getting a whole house surge
    >> protector.
    >>

    >
    > I would definitely recommend that, but it still wouldn't be a miracle
    > solution.
    >
    >
    >> What are your thoughts? Nothing else in the house was touched, nor any
    >> body else's on the block. Could have lost some expensive toys.
    >>

    >
    > As I understand it, a lighting strike close by doesn't necessarily overload
    > your local power grid - although it *can* do that and thus such a surge
    > protector is really a good thing to have - but the real danger lies in the
    > EMP (ElectroMagnetic Pulse).
    >
    > See, during a thunderstorm, the air becomes a localized mixture of regular
    > gaseous air and ionized air - i.e. plasma - and so when lightning strikes
    > nearby, the plasma serves as a conductant for the EMP, and as soon as it
    > encounters any kind of electrical lead like a power cable, an UTP cable or
    > something of the likes, it spreads from there across the length of that
    > lead, destroying whatever sophisticated electronics are at its ends.
    >
    > Now, you could think that then perhaps wireless network connections are
    > safer than cabled networks, and to a certain degree that's true, but we're
    > already "polluting" the air with so much electromagnetic radiation - from
    > wireless network connectors, cellphone antennae, and various other sources,
    > that this radiation may in itself also already ionize the air under the
    > right circumstances.
    >
    > Electromagnetic radiation does that. In fact, the US Military - and
    > possibly in the near future other militaries and law enforcement agencies
    > all over the world as well - already have a weapon system known as an
    > electrolaser. It works by directing a powerful (yet invisible) laser beam
    > onto a target. The laser then causes /blooming/ - i.e. it ionizes the air
    > along its path - and this forms an electroconductive plasma channel,
    > through which then an electric surge is fired. This way, they can stun
    > (and possibly kill) a person at long distance, or even take out an incoming
    > missile, or dispose of dangerous explosives from a safe distance without
    > that there need be a conductive wire between the weapon and the target.
    >
    > Bottom line, there's little to no protection against lightning, except for
    > Faraday's cage maybe, but it's not very practical to build houses that way,
    > especially in the US, where regular houses usually have a wooden frame (as
    > opposed to here in Europe where houses are usually built with inner and
    > outer walls of cemented bricks or concrete blocks).
    >
    > The forces of nature... :-/
    >
    >

    You don't mention Mr.Franklin's invention for the prevention of
    damage to
    houses, i.e. Lightening Rod? I am sure if you live in an area prone to
    thunderstorms and lightening strikes you must have one nearby?

    later
    bliss at california dot com

    --
    bobbie sellers -(Back to Angband)Team *AMIGA & SF-LUG*

    Ningen banji Human beings do
    Samazama no Every single kind
    Baka a suru Of stupid thing
    --- 117th edition of Haifu Yanagidaru published in 1832

  17. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On Friday 08 August 2008 23:06, someone identifying as *bobbie sellers*
    wrote in /alt.os.linux.mandriva:/

    > Aragorn wrote:
    >
    >> On Friday 08 August 2008 18:03, someone identifying as *Jennifer
    >> Coopersmith* wrote in /alt.os.linux.mandriva:/
    >>
    >>> Couple weeks ago, we had a storm go thru and a power surge into our
    >>> house. Took out my computer, 3 ports on the 4 port router, and the
    >>> control board of our furnace/AC.

    >>
    >> I feel your pain. I had a similar thing happen to me back in 2000. The
    >> computer was only six weeks old and it was a very expensive one. First
    >> things to go were the monitor, the NIC, the cable modem - which is the
    >> property of my ISP - and the videocard.

    >
    > You don't mention Mr.Franklin's invention for the prevention of
    > damage to houses, i.e. Lightening Rod? I am sure if you live in an area
    > prone to thunderstorms and lightening strikes you must have one nearby?


    Yes, but a lightning rod won't stop the EMP. It'll divert the lightning
    bolt itself into the earth, but the electromagnetic pulse travels sideways,
    like a wave - you can compare it to the ripples in a pond in which you
    throw a stone, i.e. the lightning bolt is the stone, and it sinks straight
    to the bottom, but the ripples move along the surface, outward from where
    the stone breached the surface.

    In the event that I described (and snipped for brevity), I was still living
    in another and much older apartment, but it also did have a lightning rod
    and a circuit breaker. However, lightning struck on the tree in the garden
    of the house next to the apartment building and the EMP surge blew all of
    our circuit breakers and took out the cable modem and the NIC.

    Fortunately, I had an identical NIC still lying around, and a few days after
    I called in with my ISP, one of their techs came by to replace the cable
    modem. Then I started noticing that my video was acting up - it had some
    weird compositing effect - and it turned out that the surge had knocked the
    cooler off the videocard - it was only attached via a few plastic clips
    that got warped by the heat of the surge. So I got that replaced under
    warranty, and then the monitor went flaky as well and eventually broke
    down.

    Sent the monitor in via RMA, got a refurbished one in return, but that one
    was just as bad, so I called in again and asked them for another
    replacement, and then they shipped me back my original monitor, which had
    been "repaired". Yet it was still flaky.

    And then, well, like I said, the system started getting more unstable more
    frequently, and eventually Yet Another Hardware Reset couldn't bring it
    back to life anymore. It powered up and spun up the fans, but nothing else
    happened. No POST, no hard disk spin-up - it was a SCSI disk on a SCSI PCI
    controller card - nothing.

    I must say though - and I'll knock on wood - last week or so we got a
    violent thunderstorm again and lightning struck *very* close by again - I
    estimate no farther than some 50 to 100 meters from my apartment - but
    nothing bad happened, and a while ago there was also a lightning strike
    pretty close by - I can't say how far - which momentarily tripped the
    power, just long enough for the computer to experience a hardware reset -
    this one here isn't on a UPS. But so far that was all.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but it would seem that this apartment is
    anyway better shielded than where I used to live. Well, the other one was
    constructed between 1979 and 1980, and this one between 2000 and 2001, so I
    reckon this one has more safety precautions than the other one. (For
    instance, in the other one, the only four wall power sockets with earthing
    were in the bathroom and in the kitchen; none anywhere else in the
    apartment.)

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  18. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    Moe Trin wrote:
    >> So it sounds like mechanical limitations pretty much limit the transfer
    >> speed anyway.

    >
    > Hard to say - this could be STRONGLY influenced by the software protocols
    > used to transfer the data.


    I'm assuming (hoping) that when I plug in a USB external HD, the OS will
    automatically recognize it and mount it, like it does with my USB MP3
    players which automatically become /mnt/disk (then /mnt/disk1 ...).
    Then I could just use 'cp' to copy files. I hope.

    >> I grew up with command lines. I use a mixture of the command line and
    >> GUIs -- I find some things are easier for me one way or the other.

    >
    > It's an experience thing. A lot of people don't want to spend any time
    > learning this exotic style of incantations, and don't realize the stuff
    > they are missing. If there is an icon they can click on or a pull-down
    > menu item, they're happy...
    >
    > Start->Control Panel->Administrative Tools->Computer
    > Management->Obscure Options->Something To Do With->
    > Something Else->Not Where You Were Expecting It->No,
    > This Bit, Not That Bit->Dig A Bit Deeper->Keep Going->
    > Not Long Now->Almost There->****, I'm Sure It Was Round
    > Here Somewhere->Found It!->No, It's Grayed Out->D4mn!.
    >
    > otherwise, it obviously can't be done, and there is no use trying.


    Yep, I've been through a half hour of that without success, then edited
    some config file with vim and solved the thing in under five minutes.

    > I've still got some cases that came with front-panel push-buttons,
    > and fit plastic caps made from cut-down prescription drug containers
    > so that you have to stick the finger into a short cylinder to actuate
    > the switch.


    Until I cleared off part of my desk, sometimes the piles of papers would
    press against the power switch, and that's 4.5" above the desk top.

    >> The price range of desk chairs seems amazing, $25 to $400. I'll look
    >> for something with armrests near the low end of that range.

    >
    > HIGHLY recommended. It makes a definite difference.


    High priority now, hopefully next week. There do seem to be models
    under $100. There also seem to be models over $1000. Wow.

    > The only reason I was suggesting the single power strip is the surge
    > protection - common grounds and all that.


    I figure I'll eventually get something along the lines of
    http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ase_sku=BE550R
    which has 4 outlets with battery backup (e.g. tower, monitor), 4
    surge-protected outlets without backup (e.g. printers), and phone line
    surge protection. The power strip I'm using now would get disconnected.
    This would give everything a common ground, and the UPS's power switch
    would be a "master power switch" after the components have completed
    their shutdown routines. That UPS's 45 dBA @ 1m sounds mildly annoying,
    though.

    There will be brief periods when there's a line-level audio connection
    from my stereo system (which is on a separate circuit) to my computer,
    while digitizing LPs or cassettes, but I don't think that should cause
    any problems.

    > When we moved here in 1996, I had to leave one vehicle parked outside
    > of the garage, as that was where we were stacking stuff to go to St.
    > Vinnie's. I think I took over four or five pickup loads.


    I'm not that bad, I think, but I've still got about a dozen boxes in my
    parents' basement. And my parents have been there since the Kennedy
    administration, so there is going to be a LOT of work when they move out.

    >> IIRC the only checkpoint along the
    >> entire cross-country drive was when entering California, and their
    >> main concern was fresh fruit.

    >
    > Yup - in the 1980s, they had an outbreak of the Mediterranean Fruit
    > Fly in central California


    They asked when we crossed the state line from Yuma, AZ. When we came
    back from Mexico, they didn't ask. I dunno why.

    Adam

  19. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    Jennifer Coopersmith wrote:
    > Hey Old Guy,
    > thinking of getting a whole house surge protector. What are your
    > thoughts? Nothing else in the house was touched, nor any body else's on
    > the block. Could have lost some expensive toys.


    Different old guy. Maybe not as old nor as expert. That said,
    A whole house surge protector/grounding is a good idea. It does
    need to be done right, or you gain nothing.

    First, you need to ground your telephone line as well as the
    electrical wiring. Second, the grounding has to be an
    effective ground, which generally means a copper shaft driven
    deep into the ground. How deep it has to be depends on the
    soil and the amount of moisture in it.

    There are ins and outs to doing it right that I cannot address.
    If anyone tells you it is simple, he is either lying or he has
    done it so many times he could plan it in his sleep and install
    it while sleepwalking. For a few guys like that, it is simple.

    A lightning rod is likewise a good idea.

    EMP is real, and in extremely rare circumstances can do things
    that nothing can protect against. But the wierd forms of ball
    lightening and other intractable problems (at least intractable
    using today's knowledge and technology) are extremely extremely
    rare. Ignore the EMP problem.

    Bottom line: The cheapest whole-house protection I have ever
    seen offered was by my local electric company that mounted a
    campaign to do thousands of houses over the summer. They charged
    about $100, and that without putting in a lightening rod. Just
    protection for phone lines and electric lines. You could easily
    spend several times that to get someone competent to do the full job.

    Cheers!

    jim b.

    --
    UNIX is not user unfriendly; it merely
    expects users to be computer-friendly.

  20. Re: [O/T] Hans leads police to Nina's body

    On 7 Aug 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    <489b5df1$1_1@news.bluewin.ch>, Mark Madsen wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >>> That's almost what I have now, everything off one surge-protected
    >>> powerstrip which is also a phone line surge protector.


    >> The only reason I was suggesting the single power strip is the surge
    >> protection - common grounds and all that. I wouldn't use the power
    >> switch on that strip normally. [...] The printers (two networked,
    >> one on an A/B switch to the company computers) are powered from the
    >> common surge protectors in front of the UPSs.


    >If the UPS has its own surge protection built in the effect of having
    >two surge protectors in series *may* prevent the UPS switching in upon
    >power failure.


    Huh???

    Most of the so-called "surge protection" in these power strips consists
    of a simple LC filter (low pass) or ferrite toroid to provide some
    attenuation of spikes, and a Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV) to shunt
    excessive voltages until some fuse or other circuit element on the
    unprotected side blows, disconnecting the protected side from the
    source of the surge, or until the MOV itself fails (open or shorted).
    The trigger point of a MOV is only crudely controlled (20 percent is
    not unusual) and it has a horribly soft knee (compared to a Zener or
    TransZorb), so any idea of which might trigger first or be most useful
    is random chance.

    The main advantage of these devices is the common reference point,
    where all of the overvoltage on the phone, cable, network, and power
    lines would be no greater than the sum of the protected voltage away
    from each other. Thus, a phone-line protector holds the phone lines no
    more than about 100 volts away from the "local" ground, while the
    power lines are held to no more than a nominal 1.8 x the "normal RMS
    supply away from that same reference (until the surge protector goes
    up in smoke). This gives a somewhat better chance of protecting the
    computer - it's differential voltages that kills, not the "absolute"
    value.

    >It's not a sure thing, but it's worth testing your own specific
    >combination to make sure.


    And how would you do that? ;-) Impulse generators with the power to
    test the surge protection (and the isolation to not toast every other
    computer on the same secondary of the power company transformer) are
    not common, or inexpensive.

    Old guy

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