Hans leads police to Nina's body

Moe Trin wrote:
[color=blue]
> The normal prices were in the range $0.259 to $0.309 in the '50s and
> '60s, but you got Green Stamps with that, and maybe a glass or a plate
> or similar as a "thank you" gift with a fill-up. A neighbor here tells
> of similar gas wars in NM, with prices as low as $0.129 in the '50s.[/color]

Here's a frame I grabbed when I was watching 1971's "Two-Lane Blacktop" a
few months ago. Look at the price - 16.9. :)

[url]http://blinkynet.net/stuff/two-lane_gas.jpg[/url]


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: [url]http://improve-usenet.org[/url]
Need a new news feed? [url]http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html[/url]

Blinky the Shark wrote:[color=blue]
> Moe Trin wrote:
>[color=green]
>> The normal prices were in the range $0.259 to $0.309 in the '50s and
>> '60s, but you got Green Stamps with that, and maybe a glass or a plate
>> or similar as a "thank you" gift with a fill-up. A neighbor here tells
>> of similar gas wars in NM, with prices as low as $0.129 in the '50s.[/color]
>
> Here's a frame I grabbed when I was watching 1971's "Two-Lane Blacktop" a
> few months ago. Look at the price - 16.9. :)
>
> [url]http://blinkynet.net/stuff/two-lane_gas.jpg[/url][/color]

That had to be when there was a price war going on. Too much
gasoline produced and everybody trying to move the excess and maybe
gain a few new customers in the process. I have seen gasoline as low
as 12.9 cents a gallon in such times, even when the ordinary price
was in the 25 to 30 cent range. Of course, at those prices there
would be an attendant to pump the gas for you, clean the windshield,
and check the oil, water, and air pressure in the tires.

When the price went below 15.9 cents, famers were buying tanks that
would hold up to a few hundred gallons (if they could find them to
buy) and filling them up for use in the months ahead.

Cheers!

jim b.

--
UNIX is not user unfriendly; it merely
expects users to be computer-friendly.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:09:31 -0400, Jim Beard > wrote:
[color=blue]
>Blinky the Shark wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Here's a frame I grabbed when I was watching 1971's "Two-Lane Blacktop" a
>> few months ago. Look at the price - 16.9. :)
>>
>> [url]http://blinkynet.net/stuff/two-lane_gas.jpg[/url][/color]
>
>That had to be when there was a price war going on.
>snip[/color]

Also, I don't think that car had a 30+ gallon gas tank.

BTW, I have enjoyed this rambling, if some what off topic, thread!
William

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<04OdnRtyNOKA2h7VnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@posted.lerostechnologies>, Jim Beard wrote:
[color=blue]
>Blinky the Shark wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Moe Trin wrote:[/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> The normal prices were in the range $0.259 to $0.309 in the '50s and
>>> '60s, but you got Green Stamps with that, and maybe a glass or a plate
>>> or similar as a "thank you" gift with a fill-up. A neighbor here tells
>>> of similar gas wars in NM, with prices as low as $0.129 in the '50s.[/color]
>>
>> Here's a frame I grabbed when I was watching 1971's "Two-Lane Blacktop" a
>> few months ago. Look at the price - 16.9. :)[/color][/color]

1971... I think that was about the end of the era.
[color=blue]
>That had to be when there was a price war going on. Too much
>gasoline produced and everybody trying to move the excess and maybe
>gain a few new customers in the process.[/color]

Yes and no - mentioned up-thread, there was a perpetual gas war on a
stretch of US-5 just Southeast of Hartford, Connecticut in the '50s
and '60s. It may have been there in the late '40s - but I didn't get up
there that often, and wasn't yet driving.
[color=blue]
>I have seen gasoline as low as 12.9 cents a gallon in such times, even
>when the ordinary price was in the 25 to 30 cent range.[/color]

But how much were you earning then? My first job after I got out of the
service was paying $2.33/hour, and that was pretty good coin.

By the late 1950s, the gas war near Hartford had stabilized within about
a half cent of $0.159, but this was going on for at least 10-15 years.
[color=blue]
>Of course, at those prices there would be an attendant to pump the gas
>for you, clean the windshield, and check the oil, water, and air
>pressure in the tires.[/color]

While you hit the rest-rooms, which were clean and had hot water, two
kinds of soap (soft soap from a pump dispenser, and a gritty hand
cleaner from a tubular container) and towels. Did you need some maps,
or directions - and don't forget "Mechanic On Duty".
[color=blue]
>When the price went below 15.9 cents, famers were buying tanks that
>would hold up to a few hundred gallons (if they could find them to
>buy) and filling them up for use in the months ahead.[/color]

I remember it mostly as 50 gallon drums - maybe three of them in the
bed of a pickup, because that was about a half ton, and was going to be
a bear to move around anyway.

Old guy

William Bagwell wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:09:31 -0400, Jim Beard > wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Blinky the Shark wrote:[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Here's a frame I grabbed when I was watching 1971's "Two-Lane Blacktop" a
>>> few months ago. Look at the price - 16.9. :)
>>>
>>> [url]http://blinkynet.net/stuff/two-lane_gas.jpg[/url][/color]
>>
>>That had to be when there was a price war going on.
>>snip[/color]
>
> Also, I don't think that car had a 30+ gallon gas tank.[/color]

Who said that that car had just filled up at that pump? I don't recall
late sixties muscle cars with fillers in front fenders. And when you *do*
pull up to an appropriate pump, what's in the windows is the *last*
vehicle's purchase, not an anticipatory read out of what you might need.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: [url]http://improve-usenet.org[/url]
Need a new news feed? [url]http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html[/url]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:49:43 -0700, Blinky the Shark > wrote:
[color=blue]
>William Bagwell wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Also, I don't think that car had a 30+ gallon gas tank.[/color]
>
>Who said that that car had just filled up at that pump? I don't recall
>late sixties muscle cars with fillers in front fenders. And when you *do*
>pull up to an appropriate pump, what's in the windows is the *last*
>vehicle's purchase, not an anticipatory read out of what you might need.[/color]

You got me! On further reflection it is the wrong side of the pump to
boot.
--
William

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue]
> I remember it mostly as 50 gallon drums - maybe three of them in the
> bed of a pickup, because that was about a half ton, and was going to be
> a bear to move around anyway.[/color]

Where I was (Oklahoma), the tanks were on stilts high enough that you
could drive a tractor up beside and gravity would provide the power
to fill the tank, i.e. 6 feet or higher to the bottom of the tank.
They generally held 300 to 500 gallons, though I have seen a very few
that I think held more.

And the gasoline distributor would send a distribution truck to the
farm to fill up your tank, none of this "go to the filling station
and fill up the drum." The distribution tankers were smaller in
those days, though. Today, I doubt a tanker would be sent to fill a
300-gallon tank on a farm.

Cheers!

jim b.

--
UNIX is not user unfriendly; it merely
expects users to be computer-friendly.

William Bagwell wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:49:43 -0700, Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>[color=green]
>>William Bagwell wrote:[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Also, I don't think that car had a 30+ gallon gas tank.[/color]
>>
>>Who said that that car had just filled up at that pump? I don't recall
>>late sixties muscle cars with fillers in front fenders. And when you *do*
>>pull up to an appropriate pump, what's in the windows is the *last*
>>vehicle's purchase, not an anticipatory read out of what you might need.[/color]
>
> You got me! On further reflection it is the wrong side of the pump to
> boot.[/color]

My work here is done. :)


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: [url]http://improve-usenet.org[/url]
Need a new news feed? [url]http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html[/url]

Aragorn wrote:
[newsgroup be.politics][color=blue][color=green]
>> Since you've been keeping up with the news and public opinion, you were
>> probably already up to date on the topics.[/color]
>
> Indeed so, but it is incredibly astounding how the extremists simply can't
> seem to grasp what you're saying, keep putting words in your mouth and skip
> just about anything you say to refute their allegations beyond three lines
> of text.
>
> And, typically of course, if they don't understand what you're talking about
> or if you refuse to swallow their propaganda, they will attack you on your
> personality and will attempt to label you with something.[/color]

I don't think that's unique to Belgium! I suspect that if I hadn't
identified the NG, there would have been a LOT of assumptions about
where it referred to, many of them the reader's own locale.
[color=blue]
> the King has his own agenda and has already repeatedly refused to meet
> with the representatives of political parties that strive for an abolition
> of the monarchy[/color]

I think anyone in power is like that! When my state was debating
acceptance of the U.S. Constitution in 1788, one of the leaders on the
Anti-Federalist side (i.e. stronger state government) was of course the
current governor.
[color=blue]
> It's actually surprising how poor the Dutch of the Flemish rightwing
> extremists is - notably in spelling and grammar - and they are the ones who
> supposedly fight for the preservation of our language in the bilingual
> regions.[/color]

Is Dutch spelling "simple" (one sound always same letter(s) and vice
versa) or "difficult" (e.g. English, where "-ough" can be almost
anything)? I forget, do schools there teach in Flemish/Dutch, and
presumably teach its spelling and grammar?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Well, some people embrace GNU/Linux and FOSS out of their convictions,
>> and others for technical reasons, and probably most for a combination[/color]
>
> I got into it for technical reasons[/color]

I'm glad this NG is more technical. I just assume anyone here has some
reason to use (or consider) Mandriva, and leave the political aspects to
others.

Adam

[I'm combining your three posts into one reply, since none deals with
Hans, the police, or Nina. Anyone is welcome to reply to any part of this.]

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> I was wondering which was the single most active (non-binary) newsgroup
>> out of all the hierarchies, to use as a reference for how active other
>> groups are.[/color]
>
> out of about 1200 groups with the string 'linux' in the
> name. I'm only trying to scan about 40 such groups, and of those, it
> looks like
>
> alt.os.linux.ubuntu
> comp.os.linux.misc
> alt.os.linux.suse
> alt.os.linux.mandriva
> alt.os.linux
> comp.os.linux
> uk.comp.os.linux
> comp.os.linux.networking
> comp.os.linux.setup
> comp.os.linux.hardware
>
> for the top ten in that order. a.o.l.u is being targeted by wintrolls,
> and c.o.l.m is hit pretty hard by spammers, but the rankings still are
> the same after pretty harsh killfiles.[/color]

Do you have a rough figure for posts per day? Does anybody have a guess
for the most active NG out of ALL of them on any topic?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> And why 'compton'? After the SoCal city?[/color]
>
> Nope. 'compton' was the NASA Gamma Ray Observatory. The systems in
> my department at work (as well as those at home) are all named after
> various satellites - NASA and otherwise.[/color]

What are some of the others? It's sort of interesting to see what
patterns get used for naming systems. Since I only have one at a time,
I have no pattern. This box is 'eris.pantheon.invalid', which won out
over 'circe'. Previous ones were Ozymandias, Univac, and Alfred.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> At USB 2.0 high speed, I should be able to
>> back up my internal HD in under an hour, sometime during the night with
>> a cron script.[/color]
>
> If it's an ISA bus, it's going to peak out at around 10 MegaBytes per
> second - higher if MCA, EISA, or VESA. The PCI bus is substantially
> faster - but how fast is your network? A full-duplex 100 MegaBIT
> Ethernet can almost be stuffed by a 16 bit ISA card, while MCA, EISA,
> VESA, or PCI can over-stuff any 100BaseT without breathing hard. Are
> you running a local Gigabit LAN?[/color]

I thought a USB HD was a local device, since I've only got the one box
anyway. I bought it new late last year, so I'd assume "USB 2.0 High
Speed" would be 480 Mbps/60 MBps (or whatever the drive could handle),
and 120 GB / 60 MBps is about 35 minutes. BTW this box has a "RTL8101E
PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller" but I don't know offhand just how
fast that is.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> maybe early stages of carpal tunnel, so maybe I need a more ergonomic
>> computer setup.[/color]
>
> The ergonomic setup is a great idea. Talk to your primary-care, and
> see if [s]he has any recommendations. Arm-rests on the chair, keyboard
> tray beneath the desk surface, and so on.[/color]

I'll ask, and look for more info online and elsewhere. A few years ago
I attended the local Windows User Group's presentation on computer
ergonomics, given by a local physical therapist. FWIW my computer
"desk" is actually a door (stained and varnished) supported by two
two-drawer file cabinets. Lots of space (80"x30", all usable) plus four
file drawers for storage; height ended up 30 1/8". (That's roughly 203
cm W, 76 D, 76.5 H for you metric types.)
[color=blue]
> I've worked overseas about a quarter of my working life, and
> would do it the same way if the chance came. It was enjoyable and
> interesting.[/color]

I like traveling, but apart from visiting, I've only spent three years
living outside of this county, both times at universities elsewhere in
the U.S.
[color=blue]
> $DEITY, I need a smoke!!! Reach in to grab
> one - you know how you've got the shakes at this point - and
> accidentally get to close to that metal contact on the tube...
>
> ZOT!!! YEOW!!! Bounce! (as my elbow goes into the wall behind me).
>
> 2600 VDC, plus 4000 volts of 1 MHz RF[/color]

I think anyone who's smoked for a while has stories of desperation. My
worst wasn't as bad as that, though.

A few years after I quit, I put on a coat I hardly ever wore, and found
a still-sealed pack (several years old, of course) in a pocket. I
decided to leave it along the sidewalk, so somebody would come across
it, assume it was a fresh pack, and light one. <evil grin>

[gasoline prices][color=blue]
> The normal prices were in the range $0.259 to $0.309 in the '50s and
> '60s, but you got Green Stamps with that, and maybe a glass or a plate
> or similar as a "thank you" gift with a fill-up.[/color]

I remember Green Stamps, and Plaid Stamps, and Blue (?) Stamps, and
going with Mom to pick up the "free gift." And I've heard of families
accumulating entire sets of dishes and flatware from gas stations or,
before my time, from movie theaters on "dish night".
[color=blue]
> Most retailers here card everyone (signs all over the store reminding
> people of this) because it eliminates the problem for the clerk trying
> to guess the age. For the brane-ded clerks who can't figure out the
> math, there are even signs saying you have to be born before $TODAY
> in 1990 (or 1987 - depending) to purchase.[/color]

I've seen those signs, mainly in convenience stores (7-11 or similar),
with both years, age 18 for cigarettes, age 21 for any kind of booze,
although anything stronger than beer has to be bought at a
privately-owned state-licensed liquor store. That's New York State;
other states have different rules. I was really surprised to see
store-brand hard liquor in California supermarkets. I don't think I've
ever been carded since I was 18, though nowadays I don't buy cigs and
rarely even buy beer.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> "Your" legislators??? How much did you pay for them ?[/color]
>> Their salaries come from, in part, my taxes. Every once in a while,
>> it's actually somebody I voted for.[/color]
>
> You ducked that one nicely ;-)[/color]

That's how I look at life in a republic. Instead of spending my time
learning about all the issues and having to make decisions, I and the
other residents are paying someone to do that through our taxes. I try
to make it someone who'd decide the way I would have, or at least decide
in line with my beliefs, but things don't always work out that way.
[color=blue]
> DO YOU KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS to get a decent fake ID down town?[/color]

Nope, never had to get one. I'm aware you can get almost anything,
legal or otherwise, downtown, especially where I used to live. When I
check "Police Blotter" in the local weekly, there's about a 50-50 chance
that there'll be someone either from or arrested in my old neighborhood.

Adam

On Monday 21 July 2008 18:29, someone identifying as *Adam* wrote
in /alt.os.linux.mandriva:/
[color=blue]
> Aragorn wrote:
> [newsgroup be.politics][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Since you've been keeping up with the news and public opinion, you were
>>> probably already up to date on the topics.[/color]
>>
>> Indeed so, but it is incredibly astounding how the extremists simply
>> can't seem to grasp what you're saying, keep putting words in your mouth
>> and skip just about anything you say to refute their allegations beyond
>> three lines of text.
>>
>> And, typically of course, if they don't understand what you're talking
>> about or if you refuse to swallow their propaganda, they will attack you
>> on your personality and will attempt to label you with something.[/color]
>
> I don't think that's unique to Belgium! I suspect that if I hadn't
> identified the NG, there would have been a LOT of assumptions about
> where it referred to, many of them the reader's own locale.[/color]

True, I guess. Just the less intelligent always trying to overcome the more
intelligent because our intellect scares and frustrates them.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> It's actually surprising how poor the Dutch of the Flemish rightwing
>> extremists is - notably in spelling and grammar - and they are the ones
>> who supposedly fight for the preservation of our language in the
>> bilingual regions.[/color]
>
> Is Dutch spelling "simple" (one sound always same letter(s) and vice
> versa) or "difficult" (e.g. English, where "-ough" can be almost
> anything)? I forget, do schools there teach in Flemish/Dutch, and
> presumably teach its spelling and grammar?[/color]

There are differences, so it would be "difficult" then. There are also
differences in the pronunciation of some words between Northern Dutch and
Southern Dutch. For instance, the Dutch word for "police" is spelled
"politie". The Flemish pronounce that as "polisie" - which is also how it
is pronounced (and written) in Afrikaans. The Dutch however pronounce it
as "politsie".

There is also a difference in pronunciation of vowels depending on whether
they are followed by a single consonant plus another vowel or not. It is
hard to explain that to English-speakers, though, given that our vowels are
not pronounced the same way as in English.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Well, some people embrace GNU/Linux and FOSS out of their convictions,
>>> and others for technical reasons, and probably most for a combination[/color]
>>
>> I got into it for technical reasons[/color]
>
> I'm glad this NG is more technical. I just assume anyone here has some
> reason to use (or consider) Mandriva, and leave the political aspects to
> others.[/color]

Some of them do tend to surface every once in a while, though. It's
inherent to human communication. A new thread starts, and three follow-ups
to it later the topic has already changed, even if the subject line is left
unaltered.

And then you can go drift off into many directions... :-)

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<g62dfp$c9m$2@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
>[I'm combining your three posts into one reply, since none deals with
>Hans, the police, or Nina. Anyone is welcome to reply to any part of this.][/color]

Fine - I'll add the '[O/T]' to the header
[color=blue]
>Moe Trin wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> for the top ten in that order. a.o.l.u is being targeted by wintrolls,
>> and c.o.l.m is hit pretty hard by spammers, but the rankings still are
>> the same after pretty harsh killfiles.[/color]
>
>Do you have a rough figure for posts per day?[/color]

2005 2006 2007 1-6/2008
alt.os.linux.ubuntu 28/460 480/7196 2877/40401 9737/21843
comp.os.linux.misc 7898/33645 7961/32415 12638/30140 7759/11502
alt.os.linux.suse 3482/40869 3799/31186 1061/15702 592/5371
alt.os.linux.mandriva 83/3181 1716/15833 543/10877 359/5739
alt.os.linux 4524/17502 1667/9758 1739/10200 1390/4065
comp.os.linux 819/13817 726/7854 441/6700 322/3061
uk.comp.os.linux 520/10629 601/6693 320/6010 188/2676
comp.os.linux.networking 1918/12896 300/8826 559/6114 284/2530
comp.os.linux.setup 942/8849 378/6136 379/3768 498/1842
comp.os.linux.hardware 496/7230 425/6733 756/5056 289/1784

NOTE 1: a.o.l.ubuntu created 11/2005, a.o.l.mandriva created 8/2005.
NOTE 2: Figures are killed/total_offered. The 'kills' represent one
persons opinion and may not match your opinion.
NOTE 3: 1-6/2008 represents postings to 6/30/2008:1400 UTC.
[color=blue]
>Does anybody have a guess for the most active NG out of ALL of them on
>any topic?[/color]

Impossible to say - the "official" list of Big-Eight groups is 2290
groups, but most servers carry more (giganews has 4694 in those same
eight hierarchies), and then you add in "the rest" which (according to
an unverified web page at [url]http://www.geocities.com/freefreenews/[/url]) varies
to make totals ranging from 11156 to 170313 newsgroups. How many groups
may be active (never mind "useful") is subject to speculation.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Nope. 'compton' was the NASA Gamma Ray Observatory. The systems in
>> my department at work (as well as those at home) are all named after
>> various satellites - NASA and otherwise.[/color]
>
>What are some of the others?[/color]

Home systems - because work is under NDA:

columbia, enterprise (ncc-1701), atlantis, spitzer, hubble, challanger,
endeavour, discovery, galileo, compton, pathfinder, chandra
[color=blue]
>It's sort of interesting to see what patterns get used for naming
>systems. Since I only have one at a time, I have no pattern. This
>box is 'eris.pantheon.invalid', which won out over 'circe'. Previous
>ones were Ozymandias, Univac, and Alfred.[/color]

Naming schemes can be a lot of fun/frustration (frustrating, because
you work your bootie to the nubbins trying to come up with a great
name that meets RFC950 {case-less, begins with a letter, letters,
numbers and hyphen _only_}, not likely to be confused with an
existing name, not "politically incorrect" - only to discover the guy
in the next office had put in a request for that name yesterday). This
gets really bad when you've got several thousand computers in "this"
naming domain. The normal solution is to use a naming scheme, such as:

Cars Beers Navel vessels Battles
Countries Animals Film/Stage/TV Stars Fruit/Vegetables
Stars/Planets Flowers Athletes Sports Teams
Chemicals/Elements Newspapers Magazines Publishers
States/Provinces Oceans/Seas Diseases Mythical Names
Cities Firearms Satellites Kings/Queens/Presidents
Cartoon Characters Pasta Wines Disasters
Painters Zodiac Currencies/Coins Scientists

but even that runs into problems - is 'compton' a person, place, or
thing (yes to all three).
[color=blue]
>I thought a USB HD was a local device, since I've only got the one box
>anyway. I bought it new late last year, so I'd assume "USB 2.0 High
>Speed" would be 480 Mbps/60 MBps (or whatever the drive could handle),
>and 120 GB / 60 MBps is about 35 minutes.[/color]

I don't have experience there, but I expect your numbers might be
optimistic, based on the fact that you are reading data from one source
(a SATA hard drive for example), and this has to get transfered over
the river and through the wo^W^W^W^W^W^Wto the USB controller and
thence to the external drive. Another question would be "are you making
an image backup, or backing up individual files" which brings up more
overhead.
[color=blue]
>BTW this box has a "RTL8101E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller" but
>I don't know offhand just how fast that is.[/color]

10/100 MegaBit - depending on what else is on the wire.
[color=blue]
>FWIW my computer "desk" is actually a door (stained and varnished)
>supported by two two-drawer file cabinets. Lots of space (80"x30", all
>usable) plus four file drawers for storage; height ended up 30 1/8".[/color]

Obviously, it's going to depend on how high the chair is (a whole
'nother problem area), but that sounds high. My chair puts my butt at
20 inches and the arm-rests at 28 inches, and the keyboard and mouse
are at 25 inches (eyes ~44 inches, center of monitor ~38 inches).
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I've worked overseas about a quarter of my working life[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>I like traveling, but apart from visiting, I've only spent three years
>living outside of this county, both times at universities elsewhere in
>the U.S.[/color]

"It's different [out|over] there." Of course, I also wasn't married
and the company I was working for kept finding new and exciting places
to send me, and they were paying travel/lodging/meals.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> ZOT!!! YEOW!!! Bounce! (as my elbow goes into the wall behind me).
>>
>> 2600 VDC, plus 4000 volts of 1 MHz RF[/color]
>
>I think anyone who's smoked for a while has stories of desperation.[/color]

"my elbow goes into the wall" - literally, into the plaster wall. The
transmitter building was a dilapidated old house. I had to come in later
and "patch" the hole. As the place probably was last painted in the
early 1930s, I faked it by using whitewash tinted with Rit clothing dye.
[color=blue]
>My worst wasn't as bad as that, though.
>
>A few years after I quit, I put on a coat I hardly ever wore, and found
>a still-sealed pack (several years old, of course) in a pocket.[/color]

Oh, I quit often enough over the years that I knew to go through every
possible hiding place and get rid of the un-opened packs to lessen the
possible temptation. And then buy a fresh carton a week or two later
when I restarted. When we finally quit in 1997, my wife stopped about
three hours before I did, because I was using up the last pack and it
took longer than her. I had to go outside to smoke those.
[color=blue]
>I decided to leave it along the sidewalk, so somebody would come across
>it, assume it was a fresh pack, and light one. <evil grin>[/color]

That's how we get rid of stuff that even the recycling services won't
take. Put it out next to the curb with a yellow pickup sticker from
$CHARITABLE.ORG on it - and someone will cruise by, spot it, and
recycle it for me. Works even with stuff $CHARITABLE.ORG won't take
even if there are a couple of $10 bills stapled to it.
[color=blue]
>I remember Green Stamps, and Plaid Stamps, and Blue (?) Stamps, and
>going with Mom to pick up the "free gift." And I've heard of families
>accumulating entire sets of dishes and flatware from gas stations or,
>before my time, from movie theaters on "dish night".[/color]

We mentioned this one in the thread... "[OT] Gasoline" a year ago.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> For the brane-ded clerks who can't figure out the math, there are
>> even signs saying you have to be born before $TODAY in 1990 (or 1987
>> - depending) to purchase.[/color]
>
>I've seen those signs, mainly in convenience stores (7-11 or similar),
>with both years, age 18 for cigarettes, age 21 for any kind of booze,[/color]

Yup - that's the signs!
[color=blue]
>although anything stronger than beer has to be bought at a
>privately-owned state-licensed liquor store. That's New York State;
>other states have different rules. I was really surprised to see
>store-brand hard liquor in California supermarkets.[/color]

A lot of states allow that, just as a few states only allow booze sales
_only_ from a state owned/run store. I haven't looked lately, but
Arizona and California grocery chains were getting the stuff from
"bottlers" in San Jose and Ontario. I've no idea where those bottlers
were getting the crap - some of it was pretty awful. Scotch, Rye,
and Bourbon I can see, but how do you screw up Vodka? They manage.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> "Your" legislators??? How much did you pay for them ?
>>> Their salaries come from, in part, my taxes. Every once in a while,
>>> it's actually somebody I voted for.[/color]
>>
>> You ducked that one nicely ;-)[/color]
>
>That's how I look at life in a republic.[/color]

Yabut you're in New York...
[color=blue]
>Instead of spending my time learning about all the issues and having
>to make decisions, I and the other residents are paying someone to do
>that through our taxes. I try to make it someone who'd decide the way
>I would have, or at least decide in line with my beliefs, but things
>don't always work out that way.[/color]

But that still means learning about the issues - of course, every once
in a while, they say one thing, and vote another. But that's life.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> DO YOU KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS to get a decent fake ID down town?[/color]
>
>Nope, never had to get one. I'm aware you can get almost anything,
>legal or otherwise, downtown, especially where I used to live.[/color]

One of the evening news "investigative reporters" (hah!) here did a
piece on fake IDs last year. Most of the product will stand a
casual look by Joe Public and was RELATIVELY cheap (SS card and
drivers license for under $100. Won't fool anyone who is used to
looking at them for a living.
[color=blue]
>When I check "Police Blotter" in the local weekly, there's about a
>50-50 chance that there'll be someone either from or arrested in my
>old neighborhood.[/color]

The local rag only prints the crime reports half - if anyone got busted
for something, it will only be mentioned as "A suspect has been
arrested" or similar. Names only pop up when the cops have a confession
or similar.

Old guy

Aragorn wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> I suspect that if I hadn't
>> identified the NG, there would have been a LOT of assumptions about
>> where it referred to, many of them the reader's own locale.[/color]
>
> True, I guess. Just the less intelligent always trying to overcome the more
> intelligent because our intellect scares and frustrates them.[/color]

For a while I was subscribed to a gt-adults mailing list. You might
find it interesting.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Is Dutch spelling "simple" (one sound always same letter(s) and vice
>> versa) or "difficult" (e.g. English, where "-ough" can be almost
>> anything)?[/color]
>
> There are differences, so it would be "difficult" then.[/color]
[snip][color=blue]
> There is also a difference in pronunciation of vowels depending on whether
> they are followed by a single consonant plus another vowel or not. It is
> hard to explain that to English-speakers, though, given that our vowels are
> not pronounced the same way as in English.[/color]

At least there are rules! In English, words like "entrance", "rebel",
and "read" even have pronunciation dependent on usage and context.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I'm glad this NG is more technical. I just assume anyone here has some
>> reason to use (or consider) Mandriva, and leave the political aspects to
>> others.[/color]
>
> Some of them do tend to surface every once in a while, though.[/color]

True, but lately this NG has been more focused, which I like. Most
threads are, or at least start as, something related to Mandriva or
Linux, and the only prolonged disagreements I've seen have been over
ways to accomplish something with Mandriva.

Adam

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> Do you have a rough figure for posts per day?[/color]
>
> 2005 2006 2007 1-6/2008
> alt.os.linux.ubuntu 28/460 480/7196 2877/40401 9737/21843
> comp.os.linux.misc 7898/33645 7961/32415 12638/30140 7759/11502
> alt.os.linux.suse 3482/40869 3799/31186 1061/15702 592/5371
> alt.os.linux.mandriva 83/3181 1716/15833 543/10877 359/5739[/color]
[snip]

Thanks! That means about 120 posts/day (66 not killed) on a.o.l.u, and
31 (29 not killed) here. I generally consider both the volume of posts
and s/n ration when deciding which groups to follow. Lately the s/n
ration in this group has been quite high.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Does anybody have a guess for the most active NG out of ALL of them on
>> any topic?[/color]
>
> How many groups
> may be active (never mind "useful") is subject to speculation.[/color]

Could be one of the 'test' groups, where anything would be on topic.
The busiest one I ever followed (not 'test') averaged over 100
posts/day, and I just skipped most of the them.
[color=blue]
> Home systems - because work is under NDA:
>
> columbia, enterprise (ncc-1701), atlantis, spitzer, hubble, challanger,
> endeavour, discovery, galileo, compton, pathfinder, chandra[/color]

I didn't expect anybody to have twelve home systems!
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I thought a USB HD was a local device, since I've only got the one box
>> anyway. I bought it new late last year, so I'd assume "USB 2.0 High
>> Speed" would be 480 Mbps/60 MBps (or whatever the drive could handle),
>> and 120 GB / 60 MBps is about 35 minutes.[/color]
>
> I don't have experience there, but I expect your numbers might be
> optimistic, based on the fact that you are reading data from one source
> (a SATA hard drive for example), and this has to get transfered over
> the river and through the wo^W^W^W^W^W^Wto the USB controller and
> thence to the external drive.[/color]

Does anybody have an actual transfer speed for an SATA HD to a USB 2.0
external HD?
[color=blue]
> Another question would be "are you making
> an image backup, or backing up individual files" which brings up more
> overhead.[/color]

Individual files. I know there's more overhead, but so far I've only
needed specific files. Also, I may be reading my backup DVDs or
external HD on someone else's system, where I can't overwrite everything
with my image.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> BTW this box has a "RTL8101E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller" but
>> I don't know offhand just how fast that is.[/color]
>
> 10/100 MegaBit - depending on what else is on the wire.[/color]

Does that mean the box's Ethernet port can handle 100 Mb/second, if
nothing else is using the internal buses? Could my DSL modem/router
handle that speed, if the things connected to it want to transfer that
much? (I realize any connection is limited by the slowest link.) It
sounds like, in theory, a local USB 2.0 connection would be 4.8x faster.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> FWIW my computer "desk" is actually a door (stained and varnished)
>> supported by two two-drawer file cabinets. Lots of space (80"x30", all
>> usable) plus four file drawers for storage; height ended up 30 1/8".[/color]
>
> Obviously, it's going to depend on how high the chair is (a whole
> 'nother problem area), but that sounds high. My chair puts my butt at
> 20 inches and the arm-rests at 28 inches, and the keyboard and mouse
> are at 25 inches (eyes ~44 inches, center of monitor ~38 inches).[/color]

Time for me to do some measurement, research, and possibly purchases and
modifications. Now that my car's drivable again, I can get new
eyeglasses, probably my first bifocals, so that's a good time to
re-think the whole setup ergonomically. I /know/ there's lots of
information available!
[color=blue][color=green]
>> apart from visiting, I've only spent three years
>> living outside of this county[/color]
>
> "It's different [out|over] there." Of course, I also wasn't married
> and the company I was working for kept finding new and exciting places
> to send me, and they were paying travel/lodging/meals.[/color]

Only once did I ever have what might remotely resemble a "business
trip"... I was a grad student and went to a professional convention, at
my own expense. I spent relatively little time at the convention, but
got to see some of Chicago. I even got to the tail end of a CACHE (user
group) meeting.
[color=blue]
> As the place probably was last painted in the
> early 1930s, I faked it by using whitewash tinted with Rit clothing dye.[/color]

Whitewash is one of those things I've only heard about, but never seen.
It always makes me think of Tom Sawyer and the fence.
[color=blue]
> That's how we get rid of stuff that even the recycling services won't
> take. Put it out next to the curb with a yellow pickup sticker from
> $CHARITABLE.ORG on it - and someone will cruise by, spot it, and
> recycle it for me.[/color]

I just pitch it in the dumpster. I have, I think, a dead lead-acid
battery that I may even do that to.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> families
>> accumulating entire sets of dishes and flatware from gas stations[/color]
>
> We mentioned this one in the thread... "[OT] Gasoline" a year ago.[/color]

Sorry! I don't think I was involved much in that part of that thread.
BTW a year ago this week, I paid $3.08/gallon. It was down to $2.84 by
early October.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> although anything stronger than beer has to be bought at a
>> privately-owned state-licensed liquor store. That's New York State;
>> other states have different rules. I was really surprised to see
>> store-brand hard liquor in California supermarkets.[/color]
>
> A lot of states allow that, just as a few states only allow booze sales
> _only_ from a state owned/run store.[/color]

I think Vermont only allows state-run stores. That was the easiest way
to tell I'd driven out of Massachusetts.

At one point my ex-wife was actually drinking Listerine. It's 56 proof
and can be bought at any supermarket or drugstore without any proof of
age, and with a lot less suspicion too.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>> "Your" legislators??? How much did you pay for them ?
>>>> Their salaries come from, in part, my taxes. Every once in a while,
>>>> it's actually somebody I voted for.
>>> You ducked that one nicely ;-)[/color]
>> That's how I look at life in a republic.[/color]
>
> Yabut you're in New York...[/color]

How does that make any difference?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> When I check "Police Blotter" in the local weekly, there's about a
>> 50-50 chance that there'll be someone either from or arrested in my
>> old neighborhood.[/color]
>
> The local rag only prints the crime reports half - if anyone got busted
> for something, it will only be mentioned as "A suspect has been
> arrested" or similar. Names only pop up when the cops have a confession
> or similar.[/color]

The local daily only writes up serious arrests over several counties.
The weekly covers a much smaller area but lists name (unless underage),
age, residence, where arrested, and the charge(s). The headline on
today's daily was about a suspect in a murder last year about two blocks
from where I used to live.

Adam

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<g6b52t$pb5$3@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
>Moe Trin wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> 2005 2006 2007 1-6/2008
>> alt.os.linux.ubuntu 28/460 480/7196 2877/40401 9737/21843
>> comp.os.linux.misc 7898/33645 7961/32415 12638/30140 7759/11502
>> alt.os.linux.suse 3482/40869 3799/31186 1061/15702 592/5371
>> alt.os.linux.mandriva 83/3181 1716/15833 543/10877 359/5739[/color]
>[snip]
>
>Thanks! That means about 120 posts/day (66 not killed) on a.o.l.u, and
>31 (29 not killed) here. I generally consider both the volume of posts
>and s/n ration when deciding which groups to follow. Lately the s/n
>ration in this group has been quite high.[/color]

I know what you are saying, but most of the noise (at least in a.o.l.u
and c.o.l.m) seems to be trivially filtered - to the extent that I don't
even notice "missing" articles. Usually this means all traces of the
noise is removed.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> How many groups may be active (never mind "useful") is subject to
>> speculation.[/color]
>
>Could be one of the 'test' groups, where anything would be on topic.[/color]

I really don't know that many people who subscribe to 'test' groups.
A quick check of the .newsrc file shows 1963 such groups are available
on the server I'm using.
[color=blue]
>The busiest one I ever followed (not 'test') averaged over 100
>posts/day, and I just skipped most of the them.[/color]

Five... make that ten years ago, it used to be that c.o.l.hardware,
c.o.l.misc, c.o.l.networking, c.o.l.setup and c.o.l.x were all running
over a hundred posts a day. c.o.l.m and c.o.l.n would usually be over
250 posts a day, and very little of that was noise. Add to that five or
six mailing lists that were mirrored to newsgroups, and you had little
choice but to scan the subject lines and press 'C' for 'catch-up' (mark
all as read) if there wasn't something interesting. This is the reason
that FAQs recommend a short but informative subject line.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> 10/100 MegaBit - depending on what else is on the wire.[/color]
>
>Does that mean the box's Ethernet port can handle 100 Mb/second, if
>nothing else is using the internal buses? Could my DSL modem/router
>handle that speed, if the things connected to it want to transfer that
>much?[/color]

Most systems today are using a PCI bus internally, which is typically
capable of 133 MegaBytes per second. Older buses like EISA, MCA and
VESA were slower, but were still pretty fast. No, the 10/100 choice
is a function of what is on the other end of the network. Your DSL
may have a 10/100 port, and you'll probably be talking to that at
100 MB if you were using a cross-over cable (or otherwise connect
directly to it without an external hub/switch). If you have a _hub_ so
that you can talk to more than one system on the LAN, that's probably
limited to 10 MB. A network _switch_ may talk a different speeds
(talking at 10 MB to 10 MB devices, 100 MB to 100 MB devices), or may
force everyone to talk at the speed of the slowest device. Look at the
output of the /sbin/ifconfig command, or look at files in
/proc/sys/net/ and you should be able to see what speed your NIC is
running at. It may also show up in /var/log/messages at boot time
(search for 'eth').
[color=blue]
>(I realize any connection is limited by the slowest link.) It sounds
>like, in theory, a local USB 2.0 connection would be 4.8x faster.[/color]

Could be - the only way to find out is to try it.
[color=blue]
>Time for me to do some measurement, research, and possibly purchases
>and modifications. Now that my car's drivable again, I can get new
>eyeglasses, probably my first bifocals,[/color]

I need glasses to be legal to drive/fly, and need glasses to read
dead-trees and computer screens but luckily can make do with "near"
or "far" glasses most of the time (I rarely read while driving). ;-)
I have a set of bifocals, but rarely use them as they tend to drive
me nuts.
[color=blue]
>so that's a good time to re-think the whole setup ergonomically. I
>/know/ there's lots of information available![/color]

At work, someone in Facilities spent a fair amount of coin/time with
the problem - our Insurance carrier (workmen's comp) also provided a
lot of guidance. For the most part, it was pretty simple stuff, and
this is why the chairs have arm rests so, the desks have a keyboard
tray such, and the monitors are located thusly, the lighting is set up
in this fashion, and so on. Of course we still have to take regular
rest breaks ;-)
[color=blue]
>Only once did I ever have what might remotely resemble a "business
>trip"... I was a grad student and went to a professional convention,
>at my own expense. I spent relatively little time at the convention,
>but got to see some of Chicago. I even got to the tail end of a
>CACHE (user group) meeting.[/color]

It's normally the other way 'round. I did manage to figure a way to
get vacation time in interesting places, and there were always the
weekends and occasional holidays to take advantage of.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> As the place probably was last painted in the early 1930s, I faked
>> it by using whitewash tinted with Rit clothing dye.[/color]
>
>Whitewash is one of those things I've only heard about, but never seen.
> It always makes me think of Tom Sawyer and the fence.[/color]

It's generally something really simple - as simple as quicklime and
salt or calcium chloride and water. The reason it was used in Tom Sawyer
was that the ingredients are cheap, and it's dead easy to apply.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> That's how we get rid of stuff that even the recycling services won't
>> take. Put it out next to the curb with a yellow pickup sticker from
>> $CHARITABLE.ORG on it - and someone will cruise by, spot it, and
>> recycle it for me.[/color]
>
>I just pitch it in the dumpster. I have, I think, a dead lead-acid
>battery that I may even do that to.[/color]

Can't do that - those are hazardous waste. Curb side recycling (let
the sucker who swipes it deal with the problem) is easier.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> A lot of states allow that, just as a few states only allow booze
>> sales _only_ from a state owned/run store.[/color]
>
>I think Vermont only allows state-run stores. That was the easiest
>way to tell I'd driven out of Massachusetts.[/color]

Yes on Vermont - I usually noted other indications of leaving a state,
such as the change in road signs. ;-)
[color=blue]
>At one point my ex-wife was actually drinking Listerine. It's 56 proof
>and can be bought at any supermarket or drugstore without any proof of
>age, and with a lot less suspicion too.[/color]

Glad she's an 'ex'. Hmmm, I think the clerks in the stores I shop
at would notice if I asked for a fifth of Listerine.
[color=blue]
>The local daily only writes up serious arrests over several counties.
>The weekly covers a much smaller area but lists name (unless underage),
>age, residence, where arrested, and the charge(s).[/color]

The press here tends not to mention names, and I'm not sure why, as the
information is public records.

Old guy

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> I generally consider both the volume of posts
>> and s/n ratio when deciding which groups to follow.[/color]
>
> I know what you are saying, but most of the noise (at least in a.o.l.u
> and c.o.l.m) seems to be trivially filtered - to the extent that I don't
> even notice "missing" articles. Usually this means all traces of the
> noise is removed.[/color]

[Those newsgroups are alt.os.linux.ubuntu and comp.os.linux.misc, for
anyone just tuning in.] Yes, that's true; trivial filtering is simple
enough. If non-trivial filtering is needed, I usually say forget it.
Also, even a NG with high s/n ratio will have posts that are irrelevant
to me, e.g. someone using Mandriva for a web server, but good subject
headers take care of that.
[color=blue]
> I really don't know that many people who subscribe to 'test' groups.[/color]

I've subscribed to quite a few at various times, but usually only for an
hour or two, or however long it takes to get whatever-it-is working
correctly.
[color=blue]
> Five... make that ten years ago, it used to be that c.o.l.hardware,
> c.o.l.misc, c.o.l.networking, c.o.l.setup and c.o.l.x were all running
> over a hundred posts a day. c.o.l.m and c.o.l.n would usually be over
> 250 posts a day, and very little of that was noise.[/color]

Ten years ago, I was only active in a few NGs, none technical, so I
couldn't say. I do remember that in the mid-late '80s, I was active in
Compu$erve's LDOS Forum (for TRS-80 Model I/III/4 users running LDOS 5
or TRSDOS/LS-DOS 6 [a bit of the last version of LS-DOS is actually my
work]), and the average seemed to be about 40 posts per day. Of course
posts were generally shorter then. Since they charged for connect time,
I did my reading and replying offline.
[color=blue]
> the 10/100 choice
> is a function of what is on the other end of the network. Your DSL
> may have a 10/100 port, and you'll probably be talking to that at
> 100 MB if you were using a cross-over cable (or otherwise connect
> directly to it without an external hub/switch). If you have a _hub_ so
> that you can talk to more than one system on the LAN, that's probably
> limited to 10 MB. A network _switch_ may talk a different speeds
> (talking at 10 MB to 10 MB devices, 100 MB to 100 MB devices), or may
> force everyone to talk at the speed of the slowest device. Look at the
> output of the /sbin/ifconfig command, or look at files in
> /proc/sys/net/ and you should be able to see what speed your NIC is
> running at. It may also show up in /var/log/messages at boot time
> (search for 'eth').[/color]

I didn't see anything there, but I did find:

[adam@eris ~]$ sudo lshw
[snip]
*-network
description: Ethernet interface
product: RTL8101E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller
vendor: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
physical id: 0
bus info: pci@0000:01:00.0
logical name: eth0
version: 01
serial: 00:1b:b9:b4:06:54
size: 100MB/s
capacity: 1GB/s
width: 64 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm vpd msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list
ethernet physical tp 10bt 10bt-fd 100bt 100bt-fd 1000bt-fd autonegotiation
configuration: autonegotiation=on broadcast=yes
driver=r8169 driverversion=2.2LK duplex=full ip=192.168.1.46 latency=0
link=yes module=r8169 multicast=yes port=twisted pair speed=100MB/s
[snip]

so I guess this means the motherboard's Ethernet port is actually
running at 100MB/s. I still don't know what my DSL modem/router's top
speed is, but all it has to handle is a 3 Mb/s DSL connection, and a
network printer that's much slower than that.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> (I realize any connection is limited by the slowest link.) It sounds
>> like, in theory, a local USB 2.0 connection would be 4.8x faster.[/color]
>
> Could be - the only way to find out is to try it.[/color]

Or ask here or elsewhere. ;-)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Now that my car's drivable again, I can get new
>> eyeglasses, probably my first bifocals,[/color]
>
> I need glasses to be legal to drive/fly, and need glasses to read
> dead-trees and computer screens but luckily can make do with "near"
> or "far" glasses most of the time (I rarely read while driving). ;-)
> I have a set of bifocals, but rarely use them as they tend to drive
> me nuts.[/color]

There's no restriction on my driver's license, but when it's up for
renewal I'll probably get "corrective lenses required" added to it...
unless I can memorize their eye chart beforehand. By that time the
photo on it will be 20 years old. I think bifocals would be helpful in
class, where I had to keep shifting between my notebook (glasses off)
and the instructor or speaker (glasses on).

Speaking of eyeglasses... in the novel (and subsequent movie) "Lord of
the Flies," they use a nearsighted boy's eyeglasses to start a fire.
What is wrong with this picture? :-)
[color=blue]
> At work, someone in Facilities spent a fair amount of coin/time with
> the problem - our Insurance carrier (workmen's comp) also provided a
> lot of guidance. For the most part, it was pretty simple stuff[/color]

I'm sure there's lots of info on computer ergonomics out there, and
hopefully not much of it is conflicting. Offhand it does seem like a
lower keyboard would help. The office supply stores have under-desk
keyboard drawers for under $50.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I was a grad student and went to a professional convention,
>> at my own expense. I spent relatively little time at the convention,
>> but got to see some of Chicago.[/color]
>
> It's normally the other way 'round. I did manage to figure a way to
> get vacation time in interesting places, and there were always the
> weekends and occasional holidays to take advantage of.[/color]

My father used to do that too... he'd take vacation days at the end of
business trips. IIRC he planned several days in LA after the business
portion was over, but came back after one day because he found nothing
interesting there.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Whitewash is one of those things I've only heard about, but never seen.
>> It always makes me think of Tom Sawyer and the fence.[/color]
>
> It's generally something really simple - as simple as quicklime and
> salt or calcium chloride and water. The reason it was used in Tom Sawyer
> was that the ingredients are cheap, and it's dead easy to apply.[/color]

Even easier if you use Tom Sawyer's method! ;-)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I just pitch it in the dumpster. I have, I think, a dead lead-acid
>> battery that I may even do that to.[/color]
>
> Can't do that - those are hazardous waste. Curb side recycling (let
> the sucker who swipes it deal with the problem) is easier.[/color]

I haven't yet heard of curbside recycling in this place. I may just
bring it in the next time I go to the service station, and pay the few
dollars.
[color=blue]
> I usually noted other indications of leaving a state,
> such as the change in road signs. ;-)[/color]

Or frequently, if the road is under state maintenance, a sudden change
in road quality.
[color=blue]
> The press here tends not to mention names, and I'm not sure why, as the
> information is public records.[/color]

Public records are strange things. I once tried to find the official
date of death for my best friend, and they wouldn't tell me, even though
I was the one who'd found the body.

Adam

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<g6iukb$iqp$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
>Moe Trin wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> the 10/100 choice is a function of what is on the other end of the
>> network. Your DSL may have a 10/100 port, and you'll probably be
>> talking to that at 100 MB if you were using a cross-over cable (or
>> otherwise connect directly to it without an external hub/switch). If
>> you have a _hub_ so that you can talk to more than one system on the
>> LAN, that's probably limited to 10 MB. A network _switch_ may talk
>> a different speeds (talking at 10 MB to 10 MB devices, 100 MB to 100
>> MB devices), or may force everyone to talk at the speed of the
>> slowest device. Look at the output of the /sbin/ifconfig command, or
>> look at files in /proc/sys/net/ and you should be able to see what
>> speed your NIC is running at. It may also show up in
>> /var/log/messages at boot time (search for 'eth').[/color]
>
>I didn't see anything there, but I did find:[/color]
[color=blue]
>driver=r8169 driverversion=2.2LK duplex=full ip=192.168.1.46 latency=0
>link=yes module=r8169 multicast=yes port=twisted pair speed=100MB/s[/color]

That appears to say you are talking at 100 MB/second full duplex.
[color=blue]
>so I guess this means the motherboard's Ethernet port is actually
>running at 100MB/s. I still don't know what my DSL modem/router's top
>speed is, but all it has to handle is a 3 Mb/s DSL connection, and a
>network printer that's much slower than that.[/color]

As I recall, you said you have a computer, plugged into the DSL device,
and also plugged into that device is the printer. Effectively, you have
the DSL device acting as a buffer and this allows the computer, printer
and the ISP to all talk at "their" speed. and the device (modem, or
router or switch) is handling the different speeds.
[color=blue]
>There's no restriction on my driver's license, but when it's up for
>renewal I'll probably get "corrective lenses required" added to it...
>unless I can memorize their eye chart beforehand.[/color]

They were sneaky at AZDOT when I went in last time - there were at least
four sets of charts, all different. You've got to see which one you are
using before you can fake it.
[color=blue]
>By that time the photo on it will be 20 years old.[/color]

I'm old enough now that they want to see me a LOT more often than that.
The last license I had before turning 65 was a renewal through the mail,
and they were using the photo from 1996.
[color=blue]
>I think bifocals would be helpful in class, where I had to keep
>shifting between my notebook (glasses off) and the instructor or
>speaker (glasses on).[/color]

My distant vision isn't that bad, so I tend to peer over the tops of
the reading glasses in that instance.
[color=blue]
>I'm sure there's lots of info on computer ergonomics out there,[/color]

There's tons of it
[color=blue]
>and hopefully not much of it is conflicting.[/color]

Now there, you are pushing it. ;-)
[color=blue]
>Offhand it does seem like a lower keyboard would help. The office
>supply stores have under-desk keyboard drawers for under $50.[/color]

I can't remember the last time I worked a computer with the keyboard
directly at desktop height. I suspect it was probably at the city
library using their on-line catalog. The county library has them on
the desktop, but the desk is lower. Also, they don't expect you to be
using those more than a few minutes at a time.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I did manage to figure a way to get vacation time in interesting
>> places, and there were always the weekends and occasional holidays
>> to take advantage of.[/color]
>
>My father used to do that too... he'd take vacation days at the end of
>business trips. IIRC he planned several days in LA after the business
>portion was over, but came back after one day because he found nothing
>interesting there.[/color]

Taking time before or after the trip is usually an easy choice. I had
one trip where I was in Southern Japan for two months (and was touring
every free weekend), and there was a free week before the next task
began just outside of Tokyo. Now, I'm not going to be staying in the
Tokyo area on my own dime, but Northern Honshu has some outstanding
sights to see, and yet it's easy to get to.

Another trick was that the company was paying the airline tickets, and
in those days it was possible to change the flights without penalty. So
here I am in Singapore, and have to be in Boston in ten days - how am I
going to get there? Via Europe? The Pacific? Decisions, decisions...
[color=blue][color=green]
>> It's generally something really simple - as simple as quicklime and
>> salt or calcium chloride and water. The reason it was used in Tom
>> Sawyer was that the ingredients are cheap, and it's dead easy to apply.[/color]
>
>Even easier if you use Tom Sawyer's method! ;-)[/color]

I didn't have that luxury. But I think it took less than an hour to
patch the wall one day, and the next I spent about the same amount
painting a 12 foot long section of wall about 8 feet tall. Just slap
it on - it's not as if anyone important is going to see it.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Can't do that - those are hazardous waste. Curb side recycling (let
>> the sucker who swipes it deal with the problem) is easier.[/color]
>
>I haven't yet heard of curbside recycling in this place.[/color]

What I was referring to was putting it out there to be stolen - but
doesn't your municipal authorities operate a recycling truck IN ADDITION
to the regular garbage truck? California has had a law in place for
over twenty years that required this to reduce the amount going into
land-fills. Arizona has had a similar requirement for ~10 years. My
sister in Connecticut has a weekly garbage pickup, and a monthly
recyclables pickup. The California requirement had you separating
glass, paper/cardboard, metals, certain marked plastics, and yard
waste, while Arizona and Connecticut merely have one container
for all recyclables. California municipalities also had a central
pickup point, where they'd pay you N cents/pound if you brought the
stuff in - remember to separate green, brown, and clear glass.
[color=blue]
>I may just bring it in the next time I go to the service station, and
>pay the few dollars.[/color]

The last battery I replaced, the retailer took the old one for free.
Tires or used motor oil require payment of a fee.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I usually noted other indications of leaving a state,
>> such as the change in road signs. ;-)[/color]
>
>Or frequently, if the road is under state maintenance, a sudden change
>in road quality.[/color]

or design - concrete verses blacktop verses oiled crushed stone for one.

Old guy

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue]
> As I recall, you said you have a computer, plugged into the DSL device,
> and also plugged into that device is the printer.[/color]

That's correct.
[color=blue]
> Effectively, you have
> the DSL device acting as a buffer and this allows the computer, printer
> and the ISP to all talk at "their" speed. and the device (modem, or
> router or switch) is handling the different speeds.[/color]

Sounds like I did something right without knowing it! I'm curious what
the DSL modem/router's throughput would be for something faster, like
transferring data between two computers. The router's specs say nothing
about that, only that it maxes out at 8 Mbps DSL. Right now that's a
purely theoretical question, since I don't expect anything else will be
added to my little LAN soon.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> unless I can memorize their eye chart beforehand.[/color]
>
> They were sneaky at AZDOT when I went in last time - there were at least
> four sets of charts, all different. You've got to see which one you are
> using before you can fake it.[/color]

The closest NYS DMV, last I checked (four years ago), just had one
chart, and it's hanging from the ceiling. A recce a week beforehand
should solve that. (And if not, well, I'd rather drive with my glasses
on anyway.) [Short pause while I finally get around to calling the
ophthalmologist for an appointment, and verifying that there is at least
one optician in this county that takes my insurance.]
[color=blue]
> My distant vision isn't that bad, so I tend to peer over the tops of
> the reading glasses in that instance.[/color]

Right now I find it easier to read without glasses. I now need a
magnifier for really teeny print, though. A few months ago, I decided
to add a reset button to this computer, and bought RadioShack's smallest
switch, not much bigger than a shelled peanut, contacts about 2 mm
apart. I ended up buying dollar-store reading glasses just to use as a
hands-free magnifier so I didn't solder the contacts together. I think
I trashed two switches before getting one right.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I'm sure there's lots of info on computer ergonomics out there,[/color][/color]
[snip][color=blue][color=green]
>> and hopefully not much of it is conflicting.[/color]
>
> Now there, you are pushing it. ;-)[/color]

Information overload... I've decided to consider OSHA's site (
[url]http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/[/url] ) as my primary
source, but will be looking at others as well.
[color=blue]
> I can't remember the last time I worked a computer with the keyboard
> directly at desktop height.[/color]

I bought a cheap under-desk keyboard drawer at Office Depot yesterday.
With it at its lowest setting, the top of the keyboard is now 27.5" from
the floor; the desktop is still 30". It's designed to attach to the
bottom of the desk with wood screws, but that step needed three hands so
I had to ask a neighbor to hold it in place while I put in the screws.
As I mentioned, my desktop is actually a door, therefore mainly hollow,
so about one minute after getting all the wood screws in, half of them
fell out and left the keyboard hanging. I ended up putting bolts all
the way through the desktop, which doesn't look pretty (decorative
suggestions welcome!) but holds it solidly enough. I even had to do
that twice, because the first time I installed it so the drawer was
centered along the desktop, and would go all the way under when pushed
in. Nope. I redrilled so the keyboard is centered, its mousepad to one
side, and the drawer pulls out as far as possible. I filled the old
holes with epoxy (didn't have spackle), because I know that if I didn't,
I'd lose small parts through them.

Anyway now my keyboard is lower, and I'll try it for a while and see if
it helps. If I need it even lower, I suppose I could put spacers
between the bottom of the desktop and the brackets holding the drawer.
I really appreciate all the time Dad spent showing me how to do basic
repairs and simple construction.
[color=blue]
> The last battery I replaced, the retailer took the old one for free.
> Tires or used motor oil require payment of a fee.[/color]

In this case, I just have a dead lead-acid battery. No need to replace
it, just want to get rid of it. It was given to me along with a
probably dead UPS.
[color=blue]
> What I was referring to was putting it out there to be stolen - but
> doesn't your municipal authorities operate a recycling truck IN ADDITION
> to the regular garbage truck?[/color]

Not my town, or at least nobody told me. This apartment complex has
just a large dumpster, presumably for everything. I suppose I could ask
maintenance about that.

The city I used to live in, just south of here, had two recycling bins
next to each dumpster, for newspapers and for mixed plastic/metal/glass.
And my parents, in the next town south, do have a recycling bin, and
the contents get collected on a different day from the regular trash.
Their town also has municipal clean-up days, where they'll pick up large
items -- usually one day for metals, and another for non-metallic. Of
course a lot of it gets picked up by other people first! Some actually
go scavenging with pickup trucks.
[color=blue]
> California municipalities also had a central
> pickup point, where they'd pay you N cents/pound if you brought the
> stuff in - remember to separate green, brown, and clear glass.[/color]

That "CA Redemption Value" for deposit bottles and cans, and redemption
centers, always seemed really awkward to me. Here in NYS, you can
collect your deposit (five cents) at any store that sells that item in
that size. Supermarkets generally have machines that do the shredding,
then print out a receipt you can take to a cashier. Or for national or
regional brands, you can bring them to Michigan, get TEN cents back, and
maybe make a living that way, if you process a few thousand cans a day.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> I usually noted other indications of leaving a state,
>>> such as the change in road signs. ;-)[/color]
>> Or frequently, if the road is under state maintenance, a sudden change
>> in road quality.[/color]
>
> or design - concrete verses blacktop verses oiled crushed stone for one.[/color]

I've never seen an unpaved state road, apart from construction.

Adam

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<g6q4p0$n6a$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
>Moe Trin wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Effectively, you have the DSL device acting as a buffer and this
>> allows the computer, printer and the ISP to all talk at "their"
>> speed. and the device (modem, or router or switch) is handling the
>> different speeds.[/color]
>
>Sounds like I did something right without knowing it! I'm curious what
>the DSL modem/router's throughput would be for something faster, like
>transferring data between two computers.[/color]

The lshw info you showed on Sunday seems to indicate the computer to
router link is running 100 MB full duplex, and as is on the PCI bus,
the wire speed is the limit - about 12 MegaBytes per second. Your
printer is 10 MB half duplex, and in theory you might be able to pump
bits to it that fast, but in practice it will be somewhat slower - say
something around 750 KiloBytes per second.
[color=blue]
>The router's specs say nothing about that, only that it maxes out at
>8 Mbps DSL. Right now that's a purely theoretical question, since I
>don't expect anything else will be added to my little LAN soon.[/color]

The link to the world will be one limitation, but there is another
hardware limitation - the circuits in the switch portion. Ignoring the
limit if you are speed switching, you'll run into a limit based on the
sum of the data on all ports. It depends on how the switch is designed
and where the data is going. If the switch has to "store" the information
temporarily, you'll run into the equivalent of RAM speed limits.
[color=blue]
>The closest NYS DMV, last I checked (four years ago), just had one
>chart, and it's hanging from the ceiling. A recce a week beforehand
>should solve that. (And if not, well, I'd rather drive with my glasses
>on anyway.)[/color]

Arizona has a lot of old f**ts driving, so the vision checks are
considered pretty important. Wanna make sure the seeing-eye dogs aren't
cheating.
[color=blue]
>[Short pause while I finally get around to calling the ophthalmologist
>for an appointment, and verifying that there is at least one optician
>in this county that takes my insurance.][/color]

Yeah, I run into that problem too.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> My distant vision isn't that bad, so I tend to peer over the tops of
>> the reading glasses in that instance.[/color]
>
>Right now I find it easier to read without glasses. I now need a
>magnifier for really teeny print, though.[/color]

I normally run the video displays at 160x50 (180 characters by 60 lines
on a "17 inch" screen) so I'm almost always using glasses at the computer.
[color=blue]
>A few months ago, I decided to add a reset button to this computer,[/color]

Why-for you need reset button?
[color=blue]
>and bought RadioShack's smallest switch, not much bigger than a shelled
>peanut, contacts about 2 mm apart. I ended up buying dollar-store
>reading glasses just to use as a hands-free magnifier so I didn't
>solder the contacts together. I think I trashed two switches before
>getting one right.[/color]

There are the standard dime-store magnifying glasses scattered around
the house (my wife needs them too), but I actually bought a binocular
magnifier several years ago when my vision started getting bad again.
In the late 1960s, I was using a 25x binocular microscope to see what I
was attempting to do - the flat-packs that predated the Dual In-Line
Packages had leads 0.015"/0.38 mm wide spaced at 0.05"/1.3 mm, and that
was no fun. The Antex 15 Watt soldering iron I used has a 3/64"/1.2 mm
diameter tip that I was frequently bending/breaking. I use a 5/64" tip
now, but I also don't do that much soldering.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> hopefully not much of it is conflicting.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Now there, you are pushing it. ;-)[/color]
>
>Information overload... I've decided to consider OSHA's site (
>[url]http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/[/url] ) as my primary
>source, but will be looking at others as well.[/color]

Now you know why we let the Facilities people handle it. ;-)
[color=blue]
>I bought a cheap under-desk keyboard drawer at Office Depot yesterday.
>With it at its lowest setting, the top of the keyboard is now 27.5"
>from the floor; the desktop is still 30".[/color]

Yeah, but how high is the chair, and more importantly, the arm-rests?
[color=blue]
>It's designed to attach to the bottom of the desk with wood screws,
>but that step needed three hands so I had to ask a neighbor to hold it
>in place while I put in the screws.[/color]

Out of duct tape?
[color=blue]
>As I mentioned, my desktop is actually a door, therefore mainly hollow,
>so about one minute after getting all the wood screws in, half of them
>fell out and left the keyboard hanging. I ended up putting bolts all
>the way through the desktop, which doesn't look pretty (decorative
>suggestions welcome!) but holds it solidly enough.[/color]

I've had pretty good luck with drywall fasteners (usually a coarse
screw the goes into an expandable plastic doo-hicky) or "wall-anchors"
(Molly bolts). Problem is "how much weight are you putting on the
keyboard"? (Chin in hand, elbow on keyboard shelf.) For that, the
through bolts and large flat washers are usually a better solution.
[color=blue]
>I filled the old holes with epoxy (didn't have spackle), because I
>know that if I didn't, I'd lose small parts through them.[/color]

Spackling compound, wood dough, or even silicone caulk.
[color=blue]
>Anyway now my keyboard is lower, and I'll try it for a while and see
>if it helps. If I need it even lower, I suppose I could put spacers
>between the bottom of the desktop and the brackets holding the drawer.[/color]

The height of the chair? Especially if it has arm rests (make a world
of difference).
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The last battery I replaced, the retailer took the old one for free.
>> Tires or used motor oil require payment of a fee.[/color]
>
>In this case, I just have a dead lead-acid battery. No need to replace
>it, just want to get rid of it. It was given to me along with a
>probably dead UPS.[/color]

Didn't you get that running?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> doesn't your municipal authorities operate a recycling truck IN
>> ADDITION to the regular garbage truck?[/color]
>
>Not my town, or at least nobody told me. This apartment complex has
>just a large dumpster, presumably for everything. I suppose I could ask
>maintenance about that.
>
>The city I used to live in, just south of here, had two recycling bins
>next to each dumpster, for newspapers and for mixed plastic/metal/glass.[/color]

I suspect they'd have something vaguely similar for a setup.
[color=blue]
>And my parents, in the next town south, do have a recycling bin, and
>the contents get collected on a different day from the regular trash.[/color]

About six months after we moved in, I'm taking a day off to do some yard
work, and this guy from Solid Waste disposal comes wandering around and
is handing out 8 x 11 fridge magnets that explain the soon-to-be-started
recycling program. The gate on the side of my yard is open because I'm
going back and forth so often - I take the guy to the gate, and show him
the five garbage cans - marked 'Paper', 'Al Cans', 'Green Glass' and so
on - and ask him, "when are you guys finally going to start?".
[color=blue]
>Their town also has municipal clean-up days, where they'll pick up large
>items -- usually one day for metals, and another for non-metallic.[/color]

Quarterly here. You can tell when, because a week before, you start
finding mountains of yard waste and tree trimmings stacked at the curb.
[color=blue]
>Of course a lot of it gets picked up by other people first! Some
>actually go scavenging with pickup trucks.[/color]

Technically, that's against the law here - the stuff belongs to the city
as soon as you put it out for pickup. We see someone get busted for it
occasionally - I think it's a maximum of a few hundred dollars fine and
30 days as a guest of the county sheriff.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> California municipalities also had a central pickup point, where
>> they'd pay you N cents/pound if you brought the stuff in - remember
>> to separate green, brown, and clear glass.[/color]
>
>That "CA Redemption Value" for deposit bottles and cans, and redemption
>centers, always seemed really awkward to me.[/color]

Separate item. CRV is on soda, beer, and similar containers. The city
operated recycling center buys ALL glass containers. Yes, they'll
refund the CRV (the "standard" deposit on returnable bottles), but they
also buy the glass pickle/ketchup/mayo containers, and pay you
something vaguely related to the recent wholesale price of used glass.
[color=blue]
>Here in NYS, you can collect your deposit (five cents) at any store
>that sells that item in that size. Supermarkets generally have
>machines that do the shredding, then print out a receipt you can take
>to a cashier.[/color]

I'm not sure of the law any more, but that's pretty much the same
thing in California, except size mattered (2 liter containers were a
quarter apiece).
[color=blue]
>Or for national or regional brands, you can bring them to Michigan,
>get TEN cents back, and maybe make a living that way, if you process
>a few thousand cans a day.[/color]

Don't see it very often out where I live, but it's not unusual to see
people pushing around shopping carts with a bunch of 33 gallon garbage
bags full of bottles and cans they've scrounged.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> or design - concrete verses blacktop verses oiled crushed stone for
>> one.[/color][/color]

Oiled stone is not uncommon here - no snowplows to tear it up. Grade
it - roll it hard, dump maybe two inches of crushed stone (nominal 1/2
inch screen, roll that, and then spray it with hot asphalt that will
dry when cooled. Can you say "relatively cheap"? Maintenance is not
much more than another thin coat of hot asphalt every ten years.
The strength of the road is in the roadbed - the rock is the wearing
surface, and the oil coat is merely a weather seal.
[color=blue]
>I've never seen an unpaved state road, apart from construction.[/color]

Welcome to Arizona. They're getting rare, because the Fed's are down
on the state for dust (air quality), but you still find them. At a
construction site where they may be raising dust, city/county/state
laws mandate a water sprinkler to reduce the dust levels. For large
developments, this is usually a 500-2500 gallon tanker with a spray
bar at the back.

Old guy

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue]
> The lshw info you showed on Sunday seems to indicate the computer to
> router link is running 100 MB[/color]

I assume you meant "100 Mb".
[color=blue]
> full duplex, and as is on the PCI bus,
> the wire speed is the limit - about 12 MegaBytes per second.[/color]

So my motherboard's Ethernet port can handle up to 100 Mb/s (~12 MB/s)
of data in or out or some combination, e.g. 8 MB/s in simultaneous with
4 MB/s out, at least in theory... have I got that right?

Since USB 2.0 is supposed to handle 480 Mb/s (60 MB/s), it sounds like
USB would be faster, if it's a short distance. In theory, anyway.
[color=blue]
> Your
> printer is 10 MB half duplex, and in theory you might be able to pump
> bits to it that fast, but in practice it will be somewhat slower - say
> something around 750 KiloBytes per second.[/color]

But isn't the mechanical speed of the printer (any printer) much much
slower? Slow enough so that at almost any data speed, the printer's
printing as fast as it can? Sometimes this dinosaur takes 12 minutes to
print one page at 300 dpi color. I calculate that to be <4Kb/s.
[color=blue]
> I normally run the video displays at 160x50 (180 characters by 60 lines
> on a "17 inch" screen) so I'm almost always using glasses at the computer.[/color]

The default on my "17 inch" CRT is 43 lines. I don't think my eyes
could stand anything much smaller.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> A few months ago, I decided to add a reset button to this computer,[/color]
>
> Why-for you need reset button?[/color]

A) You mean your system has never ever locked up or trashed the display?

B) Because it was there. That is, it wasn't there, but one of the
motherboard headers had the pins for it. Hardware modding, to
"customize" it, to a very small degree, given my very small ability at
that. I figured out every unused contact on the motherboard, including
one undocumented hi-def audio connector that took a lot of online
searching, only to conclude that there wasn't anything I'd want to use
it for.
[color=blue]
> In the late 1960s, I was using a 25x binocular microscope to see what I
> was attempting to do - the flat-packs that predated the Dual In-Line
> Packages had leads 0.015"/0.38 mm wide spaced at 0.05"/1.3 mm[/color]

Like these: [url]http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/obscure.html[/url] ?

I heard about microscopes similar to that from people who'd been on
IBM's semiconductor assembly lines in the '80s, doing inspections. I
spent a year there as a temp, but on the ceramic substrate end.
[color=blue]
> but I also don't do that much soldering.[/color]

I solder something about once every two or three years. Sometimes it
succeeds.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I bought a cheap under-desk keyboard drawer at Office Depot yesterday.
>> With it at its lowest setting, the top of the keyboard is now 27.5"
>>from the floor; the desktop is still 30".[/color]
>
> Yeah, but how high is the chair, and more importantly, the arm-rests?[/color]

Seat at highest position, 20" from floor; no armrests (cheap chair).
Maybe I should look into getting a better chair with armrests,
especially if I can get a used one cheap. Meanwhile, after three days
with lower keyboard, carpal tunnel symptoms are already reduced.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> but that step needed three hands so I had to ask a neighbor to hold it
>> in place while I put in the screws.[/color]
>
> Out of duct tape?[/color]

Nope, just didn't think of that. Probably would have worked, though.

Macho repairing:
If it moves but it's not supposed to, use duct tape.
If it doesn't move but is supposed to, use WD-40.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> As I mentioned, my desktop is actually a door, therefore mainly hollow,
>> so about one minute after getting all the wood screws in, half of them
>> fell out and left the keyboard hanging. I ended up putting bolts all
>> the way through the desktop, which doesn't look pretty (decorative
>> suggestions welcome!) but holds it solidly enough.[/color]
>
> I've had pretty good luck with drywall fasteners (usually a coarse
> screw the goes into an expandable plastic doo-hicky) or "wall-anchors"
> (Molly bolts). Problem is "how much weight are you putting on the
> keyboard"? (Chin in hand, elbow on keyboard shelf.) For that, the
> through bolts and large flat washers are usually a better solution.[/color]

I considered expansion fasteners, but didn't think those would work
given the thin surface of the door and the direction the weight would be
pulling. I picked 1" flat washers, and it's good and secure. Now I
have four bolt-heads and washers marring my otherwise flat desktop, but
that's only an aesthetic problem. I also have a lot more free desk
space, partly from moving the keyboard off, but mainly from clearing the
clutter so I could get to the desktop to install the thing.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I filled the old holes with epoxy (didn't have spackle), because I
>> know that if I didn't, I'd lose small parts through them.[/color]
>
> Spackling compound, wood dough, or even silicone caulk.[/color]

Rented apartment, so I didn't want to buy something I'd never use again.
Will epoxy there cause any problems?
[color=blue][color=green]
>> It was given to me along with a probably dead UPS.[/color]
>
> Didn't you get that running?[/color]

Nope. Didn't know if it worked, would have had to buy new battery
($100+) just to find out. Decided I'd be better off spending that $100
on a new UPS meant for a home system.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The city I used to live in, just south of here, had two recycling bins
>> next to each dumpster, for newspapers and for mixed plastic/metal/glass.[/color]
>
> I suspect they'd have something vaguely similar for a setup.[/color]

Apparently not. I just found [url]http://www.hydeparkny.us/carting.shtml[/url] but
that's mainly for big items, not recycling.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> [My parents'] town also has municipal clean-up days, where they'll pick up large
>> items -- usually one day for metals, and another for non-metallic.[/color]
>
> Quarterly here. You can tell when, because a week before, you start
> finding mountains of yard waste and tree trimmings stacked at the curb.[/color]

Those are separate. I meant picking up old furniture, large appliances,
anything that won't fit in an ordinary garbage bin.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Of course a lot of it gets picked up by other people first! Some
>> actually go scavenging with pickup trucks.[/color]
>
> Technically, that's against the law here - the stuff belongs to the city
> as soon as you put it out for pickup. We see someone get busted for it
> occasionally - I think it's a maximum of a few hundred dollars fine and
> 30 days as a guest of the county sheriff.[/color]

What I'm referring to is large bulky things that aren't worth recycling,
and would just get hauled off to a landfill or something. The more
individuals pick up, the less work the town's crew has to do. Last time
I helped my father put out a punching bag and some chairs that just
didn't go with anything, all in decent shape. They were gone within
half an hour. I was pleased; I hate to see usable things go to waste,
and somebody obviously had some interest in them.
[color=blue]
> Separate item. CRV is on soda, beer, and similar containers. The city
> operated recycling center buys ALL glass containers. Yes, they'll
> refund the CRV (the "standard" deposit on returnable bottles), but they
> also buy the glass pickle/ketchup/mayo containers, and pay you
> something vaguely related to the recent wholesale price of used glass.[/color]

Speaking of mayo, Hellmann's now uses plastic instead of glass. I'll
bet you didn't know that Hellmann's (east of the Rockies) and Best Foods
(west of the Rockies) mayo are not exactly the same. A Best Foods rep
told me that the "Best Foods" product is slightly tangier, because folks
out west prefer that. I've tasted them side-by-side and there IS a
difference. Unfortunately I prefer the Best Foods variation.
[color=blue]
> Don't see it very often out where I live, but it's not unusual to see
> people pushing around shopping carts with a bunch of 33 gallon garbage
> bags full of bottles and cans they've scrounged.[/color]

Not where I am now, but it was common where I used to live. Sometimes
they'd rummage through the dumpster too, which was right outside my window.
[color=blue]
> Oiled stone is not uncommon here - no snowplows to tear it up.[/color]

I don't think I've seen that. I have relatives in Vermont who live on
unpaved roads, but I think those may just be packed dirt or something.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I've never seen an unpaved state road, apart from construction.[/color]
>
> Welcome to Arizona. They're getting rare, because the Fed's are down
> on the state for dust (air quality), but you still find them.[/color]

I've seen unpaved roads, but never one that was under state maintenance.

My only experience with Arizona roads has been I-40 west from Nashville
into Flagstaff, I-17 to Phoenix, I-10 to (State?) 85 to (Gila Bend Super
8 and) I-8 to Yuma and on to California, March '94. Only one short
stretch not on an interstate, and I wasn't driving during it.

Adam