Hans leads police to Nina's body

Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
> Blinky the Shark wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> and three Japanese SLRs (doesn't
>>>> _everyone_ own an F2?) from the mid-60s to 70s[/color]
>>
>> Nope. I still have my Pentax system, with five lenses, extension tubes,
>> extenders, etc. :)
>>
>> I'm Nikonian with my DSLR, though.[/color]
>
> I'm still using my all-mechanical Canon TX 35mm SLR (bottom of the line
> of which the F-1 was the top), and most of my system is from 1976-1978.
> Three lenses, uncoupled flash, system case, etc. I've gotten really
> comfortable with it. If I see something I want a photo of, I don't have
> to figure out how to use it.[/color]

There's a plus!
[color=blue]
> I'm considering buying a digital point-and-shoot someday, but a
> comparable DSLR system is out of my budget.[/color]

Yeah. They're out of mine, too. :)


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: [url]http://improve-usenet.org[/url]
Need a new news feed? [url]http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html[/url]

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<gcu0dq$ont$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:

Moe Trin wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I understand it was the way Gates original basic interpreter he
>> wrote for the Atari.[/color]
>
>I assume you meant "Altair."[/color]

The Altair is what he started on - but he built/sold it for quite a
few of the non-mainframe O/S that existed back then. I think the
Atari, Trash-80 and CP/M versions were more common.
[color=blue]
>Somewhere I have, or had, the 8080 source for Palo Alto Tiny Basic
>that was adapted into the original (pre-Microsoft) TRS-80 BASIC, but
>I don't remember how that handled uninitialized variables.[/color]

The only non-ms basic I ever used was from HP in the 98x0 Desktop
Calculators from the early 1970s. They behaved sensibly, and barfed
as soon as you tried to run a program with an uninitialized variable,
even if it were in a non-executable location (i.e. a GOTO to bypass
a line).
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> For me, the one NoCal "must see" sight was elsewhere; see
>>> [url]http://mysite.verizon.net/adam707/Leona.jpg[/url] . You do know where
>>> that is, don't you? :-)[/color][/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Actually, I don't recognize it[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>You don't??? Los Gatos, of course! Leo and Leona are iconic symbols
>of that city.[/color]

I had a boss and two or three techs who lived there, but that's the
limits of my association with the city. I drove CA-17 enroute to
Santa Cruz / Monterey / Coast highway Southbound, but even that was
quite rare.

I assume the 'must-see' was because of your cousin - I was much more
fascinated by Alcatraz and Angel Island (the Ellis Island of the West
coast), and (to a lesser extent) the Winchester Mystery House in San
Jose. That's in addition to the natural scenery of course.
[color=blue]
>They're along the N side of 17 just W of the city itself.[/color]

Sorry - no hits in my memory.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I didn't think it was that bad - but I knew commuters were ranging
>> far an wide trying to find something affordable - only later do
>> they start thinking about the price of gas/what-ever and the time
>> to make that commute.[/color]
>
>The commuter trains have gone as far north as Poughkeepsie for
>decades, right along the river. You can see some of the rail line
>in the movie "Hello Dolly". Yep, commuters are moving this far out,
>and housing prices are going up accordingly.[/color]

At least one of my troops lives at the other side of Phoenix metro
area and has a 36+ mile commute. There is no practical public transport
so he's managed to join a car pool[1], but it's still no fun. For some
perspective, the extreme limits of the metro area here are roughly
75 miles E/W (40E/35W) and 52 miles N/S (35N/17S), which is basically
the Northeastern part of the county. I imagine there are people who
live outside the metro area and work within it, but it's pretty sparse
out there. When we were in the Bay area, I knew of people making a
75 mile commute (these are all one-way distances), and I could never
understand the rational. Even at $1.00/gallon gas, they had to be
loosing their shirts on that daily ritual.

Old guy

[1] Car pools get preferred parking where I work - it's covered (as are
most of the parking spots), and closer to the building entrances than
the VIP and visitor parking.

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<gcu0ef$ont$2@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
>Moe Trin wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Last year I looked through some of my father's 35mm slides from
>>> 1958-60, vacations and parties and such. The Kodachromes still
>>> looked great. The Ektachromes had mostly faded to a rust-brown,
>>> though sometimes there were indications of what the original
>>> colors had been.[/color]
>>
>> I don't even think it took that long - I've still got trays of
>> slides for the Braun slide projector (and only two lamps left) that
>> were basically gone after 30 years.[/color]
>
>Hmm... some of MY slides are over 30 years old.[/color]

I looked through some of the slide trays from ~1960/1961 - some were
fine, but in some, the images had faded to near monochrome such that
I wasn't even able to identify some of the places, even with the
writing on the slide holder... "the palace" - _WHICH_ palace?
For that matter, which country?
[color=blue]
>I'll have to check them out. (I still have one wall blank where I'll
>eventually put enlargements of my favorite shots.) The 8mm home
>movies from the early '60s, all Kodachrome -- well, Mom said the
>colors were a little faded, but they looked fine to me.[/color]

Know that problem too - part of it is subjective memory, although you
may have some references, such as knowing what colors those flags
_should_ be. I've long since run out of empty wall space, and my
wife and I have a ritual of swapping photos and paintings about three
times a year.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I wasn't that thrilled with the Nikon, because I already had a
>> (relatively) decent selection of lenses that were screw-in, rather
>> than bayonet. I think I wound up buying three F2 bodies and about
>> a dozen lenses for them.[/color]
>
>That's one reason I haven't gone digital yet. A system as good as
>the film one I have now would get pricey.[/color]

The brother-in-law reimbursed me for the price and import duties,
which were relatively low compared to the retail price in NYC. But I
had what I had, and didn't see a reason to start again from scratch.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> using the fabulous pay of an E2 (about $80 a month) bought up to a
>> "real" camera (Edixa-flex) and even bought a (135 mm/F3.5)
>> telephoto lens for it!!! Big Spender, that's me.[/color]
>
>Most of the system I'm still using is from 1976-1978. It still works,
>so I'm still using it.[/color]

There's nothing wrong with any of my cameras, but I'm not using them
to take pictures now. I think the last time I used a film camera was
about five years ago to document an auto accident (someone ran a
stop sign and ripped up the left rear of my car). The camera was an
instamatic of some kind - though how it survived the heat of the
summers in the car I'll never know.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> But there-in lies the problem - he was live and kinescoped, and
>> about the main thing left is early tapes and a very few clapped
>> out kinescopes (I exclude his movies).[/color]
>
>In the book "Seriously Funny," about the "intellectual" humorists of
>the '50s and '60s, it said that about half of his videotapes had
>been wiped, but Edie had bought what remained.[/color]

And I hope had them re-mastered or otherwise transferred to a more
permanent media. The problem of tapes is that they were late in his
career, and we're virtually all of the Philadelphia time-frame when
he was doing some of the wilder things. All that's left from then
is mainly stills.
[color=blue]
>He also wrote some stuff for MAD magazine that I probably have
>around here somewhere.[/color]

I had several boxes of MAD - and they got destroyed in a roof leak.
I still have some books from that time - at least ten Don Martin
books, seven Antonio Prohias (Spy vs Spy), and others. I do recall
a few of the things Kovacs did as well "Strangely Believe It". He
fit right in with that crowd.

Old guy

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Gates original basic interpreter[/color][/color]
>
> he built/sold it for quite a
> few of the non-mainframe O/S that existed back then. I think the
> Atari, Trash-80 and CP/M versions were more common.[/color]

By the time of MBASIC 5 (the version before GW-BASIC), which was
available for a variety of platforms, most of it was a sort of generic
source code that was cross-compiled for whatever machine.
[color=blue]
> The only non-ms basic I ever used was from HP in the 98x0 Desktop
> Calculators from the early 1970s. They behaved sensibly, and barfed
> as soon as you tried to run a program with an uninitialized variable,[/color]

Anybody remember what the Apple II BASICs did for an uninitialized variable?
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> For me, the one NoCal "must see" sight was elsewhere; see
>>>> [url]http://mysite.verizon.net/adam707/Leona.jpg[/url] . You do know where
>>>> that is, don't you? :-)[/color][/color]
>
> I assume the 'must-see' was because of your cousin - I was much more
> fascinated by Alcatraz and Angel Island (the Ellis Island of the West
> coast), and (to a lesser extent) the Winchester Mystery House in San
> Jose. That's in addition to the natural scenery of course.[/color]

Nope, my idea, because I like cats. (That's me on the right, btw, in
2002, and that is NOT a trick photo.) The two other things I most
wanted to see around there were both in San Jose, the Tech Museum and
the Winchester House. I never got to the Winchester House, and the day
I got to the Tech Museum I was actually feeling pretty sick so I didn't
get as much out of it as I could. I think my favorite part of that was
the kinetic sculpture outside the entrance. And I wanted to get to
Marin County just for the "experience". What the rest of the country
calls "very Californian," Californians call "very Marin."
[color=blue]
> the extreme limits of the metro area here are roughly
> 75 miles E/W (40E/35W) and 52 miles N/S (35N/17S), which is basically
> the Northeastern part of the county.[/color]

I don't see the county lines, but it's very clear on a road map where
the metro area ends.

And something Linux-related: I'd planned on installing Mandriva 2009.0
soon, but after seeing all the problems that people in this group are
having, I think I'll stick with 2008.0 for a while longer.

Adam

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue]
> I looked through some of the slide trays from ~1960/1961 - some were
> fine, but in some, the images had faded to near monochrome such that
> I wasn't even able to identify some of the places, even with the
> writing on the slide holder... "the palace" - _WHICH_ palace?
> For that matter, which country?[/color]

Well, you can't blame the inadequate descriptions on the film. :-) One
of the many items in my system case is a very small notebook, for a shot
listing, tech details, or whatever.

I just did a spot check of a few slides of mine from the late '70s, The
Kodachromes, Ektachromes, Fujichromes, and Agfachromes that were
processed by the manufacturer seem to have held up at least adequately.
I tried a roll of 5247 (remember all the ads for that?) in summer '78,
and the slides from that are almost monochrome now, but I didn't check
the original negatives of those.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The 8mm home
>> movies from the early '60s, all Kodachrome -- well, Mom said the
>> colors were a little faded, but they looked fine to me.[/color]
>
> Know that problem too - part of it is subjective memory, although you
> may have some references, such as knowing what colors those flags
> _should_ be.[/color]

Or flesh tones (which naturally vary a great deal), or the blue and
white of Grandpa's '57 Chevy Belair. Grandpa once said that was his
favorite of all his cars.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I'll have to check them out. (I still have one wall blank where I'll
>> eventually put enlargements of my favorite shots.)[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> I've long since run out of empty wall space, and my
> wife and I have a ritual of swapping photos and paintings about three
> times a year.[/color]

Sounds like my parents' house. I finally have enough things hanging so
most of the place doesn't look bare, but I'm really proud that nearly
all of them are uncommon. Besides pieces by people I know, there's a
print from Australia and a cartoonish map of Poughkeepsie from 1931.
Still gotta go through my old photos and enlarge a few, though.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Most of the system I'm still using is from 1976-1978. It still works,
>> so I'm still using it.[/color]
>
> There's nothing wrong with any of my cameras, but I'm not using them
> to take pictures now. I think the last time I used a film camera was
> about five years ago to document an auto accident[/color]

My father keeps a cheap disposable in each car for just that reason. I
should too.

[Ernie Kovacs][color=blue][color=green]
>> about half of his videotapes had
>> been wiped, but Edie had bought what remained.[/color]
>
> And I hope had them re-mastered or otherwise transferred to a more
> permanent media. The problem of tapes is that they were late in his
> career, and we're virtually all of the Philadelphia time-frame when
> he was doing some of the wilder things. All that's left from then
> is mainly stills.[/color]

I remember seeing some of his kinneys. I just watched Volume I of "The
Best of Ernie Kovacs," and this particular volume was all originally B/W
videotape, technically okay but low contrast. I was disappointed that
it wasn't as funny as I expected, but then some of what was innovative
then is familiar now.
[color=blue]
> I had several boxes of MAD - and they got destroyed in a roof leak.
> I still have some books from that time - at least ten Don Martin
> books, seven Antonio Prohias (Spy vs Spy), and others. I do recall
> a few of the things Kovacs did as well "Strangely Believe It". He
> fit right in with that crowd.[/color]

There's an "Absolutely MAD" DVD that includes almost everything from
issue #1 up to a few years ago. I'll have to go through that and look
for his stuff. In their early days, they used a lot of material from
"name" writers like Kovacs, Roger Price, Jean Shepherd, Bob & Ray, Carl
Reiner, Andy Griffith, Tom Lehrer, and numerous others.

Adam

Blinky the Shark wrote:[color=blue]
> Adam wrote:[color=green]
>> most of my [photo] system is from 1976-1978. [...] I've gotten really
>> comfortable with it. If I see something I want a photo of, I don't have
>> to figure out how to use it.[/color]
>
> There's a plus![/color]

Oh, I know! I think that's the single most important factor in getting
better photos from any kind of equipment.

Adam

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<gd5a0s$dfm$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
>Moe Trin wrote:[/color]

[microsoft Basic interpreter]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> he built/sold it for quite a few of the non-mainframe O/S that
>> existed back then. I think the Atari, Trash-80 and CP/M versions
>> were more common.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>By the time of MBASIC 5 (the version before GW-BASIC), which was
>available for a variety of platforms, most of it was a sort of
>generic source code that was cross-compiled for whatever machine.[/color]

I wasn't using basic that much, but this sounds reasonable. It's
really not a horrific task, and done once, it's _relatively easy
to port to other architectures. Recall that the host O/S was
merely a program loader, and wasn't involved once the application
started.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I assume the 'must-see' was because of your cousin - I was much
>> more fascinated by Alcatraz and Angel Island (the Ellis Island of
>> the West coast), and (to a lesser extent) the Winchester Mystery
>> House in San Jose. That's in addition to the natural scenery of
>> course.[/color]
>
>Nope, my idea, because I like cats.[/color]

OK - Kiri (12 y/o Siamese), Good Sam (7 y/o orange tabby) and Smokie
(7 y/o gray mix female) approve.
[color=blue]
>The two other things I most wanted to see around there were both in
>San Jose, the Tech Museum and the Winchester House.[/color]

I also found the Computer Museum at Moffett interesting. As for
the Winchester house, I've probably been there half a dozen times
escorting family. I'm still rather fascinated by it.
[color=blue]
>I never got to the Winchester House, and the day I got to the Tech
>Museum I was actually feeling pretty sick so I didn't get as much out
>of it as I could.[/color]

Well, you'll simply have to get back out there again, and do the
tourist bit over again. ;-)
[color=blue]
>And I wanted to get to Marin County just for the "experience". What
>the rest of the country calls "very Californian," Californians call
>"very Marin."[/color]

There is a lot of variation there - GGNRA is one thing, places like
Bolinas, Tiberon, and the cities between Mill Valley to roughly
Ignacio are yet another. I must admit to spending a lot of time just
wandering around Ft. Baker, Barry, and Cronkhite (basically the North
side of the Golden Gate, from the bridge West to Muir Beach). If the
fog isn't in, there are some spectacular views from there. One of
the pictures up in the den at the moment is a tourist shot from
Fort Baker looking over a low (tops ~400 feet) fog layer looking at
the bridge with the city mostly above the fog layer, and the East
Bay hills perfectly clear.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> the extreme limits of the metro area here are roughly 75 miles E/W
>> (40E/35W) and 52 miles N/S (35N/17S), which is basically the
>> Northeastern part of the county.[/color]
>
>I don't see the county lines, but it's very clear on a road map where
>the metro area ends.[/color]

If the map is more than about 6 years old, it's not showing everything.
The map should show AZ-101 circling Phoenix about 15 miles out, AZ-202
circling Mesa 7-12 miles out, and AZ-303 about 8 miles West of the 101
running about half the arc between I-10 and I-17. There are _plans_ for
even more freeways. There was also talk of annexing more county land
along I-17 roughly 25 to 40 miles North of the I-10/17 loop.
[color=blue]
>And something Linux-related: I'd planned on installing Mandriva 2009.0
>soon, but after seeing all the problems that people in this group are
>having, I think I'll stick with 2008.0 for a while longer.[/color]

#include <standard_lecture_version_numbers.h>

Does the "new" version have some feature/bug-fix you can't live without?
Is the "old" version meeting your needs and still supported?

It's a common complaint - people want the latest/greatest version or
model or what-ever, and what it really boils down to is "chasing
version numbers". With something as dynamic as Linux, this can be
"interesting" in the Chinese form of the word. At work, we're
still using a version that was released in mid-2007, and I'm told
that the computer support people are _planning_ on starting an
evaluation of a new release. The initial evaluation takes about a
month, and then they run "trial" installs on test systems for an 8
week backup cycle. If there are no snags, they do a mass upgrade over
a weekend, and we hope there are no surprises on Monday morning. We've
been using this procedure since ~1995, and only have had one rollback
(and that was only on the printer servers) in that time.

Old guy

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<gd5a18$dfm$2@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
>Moe Trin wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I looked through some of the slide trays from ~1960/1961 - some were
>> fine, but in some, the images had faded to near monochrome such that
>> I wasn't even able to identify some of the places, even with the
>> writing on the slide holder... "the palace" - _WHICH_ palace?
>> For that matter, which country?[/color]
>
>Well, you can't blame the inadequate descriptions on the film. :-)[/color]

I suppose - in the early 1960s, I was in Europe with the Air Farce,
and having 30 days leave per year, made the most of it.
[color=blue]
>One of the many items in my system case is a very small notebook, for
>a shot listing, tech details, or whatever.[/color]

I can make guesses as to where/which some of the shots were, but the
real problem is that the images had deteriorated so much that it was
difficult to see what might have been there. I can reconstruct some of
the information from dates, but that's it. I also wish I could find
all of the B/W negatives that I had shot. The base (photographic)
hobby shop sold Plus-X by the foot at some minimal cost, and that
meant we shot a lot of B/W.
[color=blue]
>I just did a spot check of a few slides of mine from the late '70s,
>The Kodachromes, Ektachromes, Fujichromes, and Agfachromes that were
>processed by the manufacturer seem to have held up at least adequately.[/color]

The 1960s color stuff (Kchrome, Echrome and some Kcolor) was all
processed by Kodak in Hemel Hempstead in the UK. The later part of the
decade, I was more into B/W because I was working in Central and South
America, and the Far East, and (except in Hong Kong and Japan) the color
processing left a _lot_ to be desired.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Know that problem too - part of it is subjective memory, although
>> you may have some references, such as knowing what colors those
>> flags _should_ be.[/color]
>
>Or flesh tones (which naturally vary a great deal), or the blue and
>white of Grandpa's '57 Chevy Belair. Grandpa once said that was his
>favorite of all his cars.[/color]

Now you're REALLY pushing. I vaguely recall there was a light, and a
medium blue, but trying to match it to a Munsell or FED-STD-595
color is impossible My sister's first car was a 55 Belair convertible
that was "peach" and "cream" (her description). Funny thing is that the
last time I was in Vegas, we stopped at the auto museum, and they had
that car (except it was the V8 rather than the 6 she had), and it
hadn't been smashed up several times like hers. They also had no less
than 3 of the cars I'd used (64 Grand Prix, 67 250-SL, and 71 Bavaria).
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I've long since run out of empty wall space, and my wife and I have
>> a ritual of swapping photos and paintings about three times a year.[/color]
>
>Sounds like my parents' house. I finally have enough things hanging
>so most of the place doesn't look bare, but I'm really proud that
>nearly all of them are uncommon.[/color]

Both of us collected "stuff" before we got married, and both of us had
traveled extensively, so there is a LOT to choose from.
[color=blue]
>Besides pieces by people I know, there's a print from Australia and
>a cartoonish map of Poughkeepsie from 1931.[/color]

One of the things my late sister had (in the "family" room before
the name became popular) was an 1870 topographical map of the town
she was living in, showing her (then) newly built house. She also had
a sepia taken of the house sometime around 1900 along side a "recent"
photo she had taken before they added a garage in 1953.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I think the last time I used a film camera was about five years ago
>> to document an auto accident[/color]
>
>My father keeps a cheap disposable in each car for just that reason.
>I should too.[/color]

We keep one in our survival kit (formerly the earthquake kit - the
absolute minimum stuff to "survive" for three days). I suppose I should
go out and check the date stamps on the contents of each kit. We try to
replace the food, and batteries (radio and flashlight) about every 12
to 15 months, and mark the date on a piece of masking tape on the
wrapping.

[Ernie Kovacs]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The problem of tapes is that they were late in his career, and we're
>> virtually all of the Philadelphia time-frame when he was doing some
>> of the wilder things.[/color][/color]

What that should have said is "and we've lost virtually all" Oh, well.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> All that's left from then is mainly stills.[/color]
>
>I remember seeing some of his kinneys.[/color]

Which I think was mainly his New York and Hollywood days.
[color=blue]
>I just watched Volume I of "The Best of Ernie Kovacs," and this
>particular volume was all originally B/W videotape, technically okay
>but low contrast.[/color]

That would have to be mid-late 1950s.
[color=blue]
>I was disappointed that it wasn't as funny as I expected, but then
>some of what was innovative then is familiar now.[/color]

True - one reference I've seen mentions he was a subtle influence
on Rowan and Martin when they were doing Laugh-in.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I do recall a few of the things Kovacs did as well "Strangely
>> Believe It". He fit right in with that crowd.[/color]
>
>There's an "Absolutely MAD" DVD that includes almost everything from
>issue #1 up to a few years ago.[/color]

<makes another entry onto the Christmas "gimme list">
[color=blue]
>I'll have to go through that and look for his stuff. In their early
>days, they used a lot of material from "name" writers like Kovacs,
>Roger Price, Jean Shepherd, Bob & Ray, Carl Reiner, Andy Griffith,
>Tom Lehrer, and numerous others.[/color]

I recall only a bit of the stuff - my sister discovered the magazine
in roughly 1954, and I managed to see some of the issues she bought.
It was either that, or Readers Digest or the Saturday Evening Post,
and you can guess which was more interesting.

Old guy

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> By the time of MBASIC 5 (the version before GW-BASIC), which was
>> available for a variety of platforms, most of it was a sort of
>> generic source code that was cross-compiled for whatever machine.[/color]
>
> I wasn't using basic that much, but this sounds reasonable. It's
> really not a horrific task, and done once, it's _relatively easy
> to port to other architectures. Recall that the host O/S was
> merely a program loader, and wasn't involved once the application
> started.[/color]

Not entirely. Any file manipulation in a BASIC program required the OS
calls. Even something simple like accessing a variable involved
registers which varied between CPUs. I looked at some of the TRS-80
port of MBASIC 5, and I could see that a lot of it was NOT optimized for
the Z-80.

[San Jose][color=blue][color=green]
>> I never got to the Winchester House, and the day I got to the Tech
>> Museum I was actually feeling pretty sick so I didn't get as much out
>> of it as I could.[/color]
>
> Well, you'll simply have to get back out there again, and do the
> tourist bit over again. ;-)[/color]

I would, except the friend I stayed with no longer lives in California,
or anyplace else. :-( There's nobody else I can stay with for more than
a few days, and I don't want to go to all that trouble and expense for
only a short trip.
[color=blue]
> If the map is more than about 6 years old, it's not showing everything.
> The map should show AZ-101 circling Phoenix about 15 miles out, AZ-202
> circling Mesa 7-12 miles out, and AZ-303 about 8 miles West of the 101
> running about half the arc between I-10 and I-17.[/color]

Google Maps seems to show 101 and 202, but not 303.
[color=blue]
> There are _plans_ for even more freeways.[/color]

I'm still bothered that NJ still hasn't finished I-95! There's still a
ten-mile gap around Trenton. They consider the NJ Turnpike an
acceptable alternative.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> And something Linux-related: I'd planned on installing Mandriva 2009.0
>> soon, but after seeing all the problems that people in this group are
>> having, I think I'll stick with 2008.0 for a while longer.[/color]
>
> #include <standard_lecture_version_numbers.h>
>
> Does the "new" version have some feature/bug-fix you can't live without?
> Is the "old" version meeting your needs and still supported?[/color]

That's what I thought. 2008.0 seems to do everything I need, so I'll
stick with it for a while longer. (There are a few things I can't do
yet, but I haven't tried very hard with those.) Reading about everyone
else's problems with 2009.0, and especially KDE 4, in this newsgroup has
been a big help. (So those of you who have never written to me directly
have still been helpful!)
[color=blue]
> It's a common complaint - people want the latest/greatest version or
> model or what-ever, and what it really boils down to is "chasing
> version numbers".[/color]

Good point. I'm planning on switching to OO.o 3.0 once I get my current
project with it (minutes of the last Board meeting) done, though. Maybe
when 2009.0 gets enough bug fixes, or maybe 2009.1 or 2010.0...

BTW I'm still trying to get Compaq to replace the defective DVD+/-R/RW
drive (just the drive) under warranty. I emailed them (didn't tell 'em
I was using Linux, just the Vista it came with), they gave me the usual
suggestions, I tried them, no improvement. What I *did* discover was
that the drive still works with all DVDs, just not with CDs! Never
heard of that one before.

With all the peripherals I've been trying, I've had to knock out those
RFI shields that were filling the other 5.25" and the 3.5" bay. If I'm
not going to be using those bays, is it worth doing anything about that,
or can I just leave them "uncovered"? Of course there's a front panel
to keep the dust out.

Adam

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> you may have some references, such as knowing what colors those
>>> flags _should_ be.[/color]
>> Or flesh tones (which naturally vary a great deal), or the blue and
>> white of Grandpa's '57 Chevy Belair. Grandpa once said that was his
>> favorite of all his cars.[/color]
>
> Now you're REALLY pushing. I vaguely recall there was a light, and a
> medium blue, but trying to match it to a Munsell or FED-STD-595
> color is impossible[/color]

I think "turquoise" was the name. IIRC it was about the same color
(though not body style) as [url]http://nysportscars.com/cars/?id=52972[/url] .
Speaking of car colors, I just got my car back from the body shop, and
their problem was matching what color the car is now, as opposed to its
color when it left the factory in the last millennium, but they did a
pretty good job.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> my wife and I have
>>> a ritual of swapping photos and paintings about three times a year.[/color][/color]
>
> Both of us collected "stuff" before we got married, and both of us had
> traveled extensively, so there is a LOT to choose from.[/color]

Okay, I'd been assuming you two were past your 40th anniversary.
[color=blue]
> One of the things my late sister had (in the "family" room before
> the name became popular) was an 1870 topographical map of the town
> she was living in, showing her (then) newly built house.[/color]

The public library in Fishkill, NY has an 1850s map of the entire
county, about six feet square, mounted on a wall. It's an excellent
map, with large estates and other notable places identified. For each
city, town, and village it also has a detailed inset, showing all
streets and a directory of tradesmen there -- sort of a forerunner of
the Yellow Pages, e.g. all bakers, blacksmiths, coopers, etc. located
there with name and address.
[color=blue]
> [Ernie Kovacs]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> The problem of tapes is that they were late in his career, and we're
>>> virtually all of the Philadelphia time-frame when he was doing some
>>> of the wilder things.[/color][/color]
>
> What that should have said is "and we've lost virtually all" Oh, well.[/color]

Understood.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I just watched Volume I of "The Best of Ernie Kovacs,"[/color][/color]
[...][color=blue][color=green]
>> I was disappointed that it wasn't as funny as I expected, but then
>> some of what was innovative then is familiar now.[/color]
>
> True - one reference I've seen mentions he was a subtle influence
> on Rowan and Martin when they were doing Laugh-in.[/color]

Not so subtle. Things like the "runners" (variations on the same
premise) and the use of many short bits may have been taken directly
from that. (Trivia: although Laugh-In was videotaped in color, it was
also recorded as a b/w kinescope, for easier editing. The final tape
wasn't edited until the cut of the film had been approved by all concerned.)

Breaking news: Edie Adams died last Wednesday (Oct. 15), age 81. The AP
obit emphasized her roles in Broadway's "Wonderful Town" and "Li'l
Abner", though she was NOT in the more public versions of those (TV and
movie respectively).
[color=blue][color=green]
>> There's an "Absolutely MAD" DVD that includes almost everything from
>> issue #1 up to a few years ago.[/color]
>
> <makes another entry onto the Christmas "gimme list">[/color]

If you have trouble finding it, give me a holler.

Adam
--
Email: adam seven zero seven AT verizon DOT net

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<gdgbg8$oao$2@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:

Moe Trin wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Now you're REALLY pushing. I vaguely recall there was a light, and
>> a medium blue, but trying to match it to a Munsell or FED-STD-595
>> color is impossible[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>I think "turquoise" was the name.[/color]

That sounds a little more likely.
[color=blue]
>Speaking of car colors, I just got my car back from the body shop,
>and their problem was matching what color the car is now, as opposed
>to it color when it left the factory in the last millennium, but they
>did a pretty good job.[/color]

Reminds me of when the dealer's troops managed to ding the left rear
fender of my 250-SL when it was about 3 years old. Naturally, I went
absolutely ballistic, but they replaced the fender (it was torn) and
then painted it "several" times, ending up by repainting the entire
car (inside AND out) so that the color matched perfectly. Glad it
wasn't my nickel (directly). Real pity for them - I sold that car
about 3 months later, and got a competing brand.
[color=blue]
>The public library in Fishkill, NY has an 1850s map of the entire
>county, about six feet square, mounted on a wall. It's an excellent
>map, with large estates and other notable places identified. For each
>city, town, and village it also has a detailed inset, showing all
>streets and a directory of tradesmen there -- sort of a forerunner of
>the Yellow Pages, e.g. all bakers, blacksmiths, coopers, etc. located
>there with name and address.[/color]

I've seen maps like that in Connecticut, and they can be quite
fascinating.
[color=blue]
>Breaking news: Edie Adams died last Wednesday (Oct. 15), age 81. The
>AP obit emphasized her roles in Broadway's "Wonderful Town" and "Li'l
>Abner", though she was NOT in the more public versions of those (TV
>and movie respectively).[/color]

I don't see many movies or shows, but think the last movie I saw her
in was Mad Mad - which also included a huge number of names who are
mostly gone now too. I'm sure I saw her on some later television shows,
but can't recall any specifics.

Old guy

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue]
> Reminds me of when the dealer's troops managed to ding the left rear
> fender of my 250-SL when it was about 3 years old.[/color]

Speaking of car dealers, I once saw a car slide off the road into the
front of a dealer's lot, knocking about three or four new cars into each
other, some already bought and waiting to be picked up. I wonder how
the insurance handled that one, since those cars, even when repaired,
certainly weren't worth as much as a "new" car.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Breaking news: Edie Adams died last Wednesday (Oct. 15), age 81.[/color]
>
> I don't see many movies or shows, but think the last movie I saw her
> in was Mad Mad[/color]

Where she was supposed to play opposite Ernie (the role that Sid Caesar
ended up with).
[color=blue]
> I'm sure I saw her on some later television shows,
> but can't recall any specifics.[/color]

Movies and TV: [url]http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0010944/[/url] Bios mention a lot of
stage and nightclub work, but I think her only B'way appearances were
"Wonderful Town" and "Li'l Abner", and she's on the OBC albums of both.

Adam

On Thursday 23 October 2008 01:35, someone identifying as *Adam* wrote
in /alt.os.linux.mandriva:/
[color=blue]
> Speaking of car dealers, I once saw a car slide off the road into the
> front of a dealer's lot, knocking about three or four new cars into each
> other, some already bought and waiting to be picked up. I wonder how
> the insurance handled that one, since those cars, even when repaired,
> certainly weren't worth as much as a "new" car.[/color]

My very first job when I got out of the army - back then, we still had
drafting duty over here - was at one of the then two General Motors plants
in Antwerp.

In the second plant - now the only one still owned by General Motors and
renamed to Opel Belgium about a decade ago; the other plant was sold to a
public transport company to store and service the buses and trolleys - it
was custom back then to test every new car's engine on a kind of
dynamometer - in the first plant, this was done only to every first car
finished by the next shift - and at a given moment in time, one car was
doing 180 km/h when the dyno jammed. The car was catapulted off the dyno
and flew right into two other cars that had just come off of it. They were
scrapped.

On another occasion, in the first plant, one car was found to have defective
brakes upon final inspection, and the inspector had written "NO BRAKES" on
the windshield with a thick white marker. Yet, one of the guys who had to
drive the finished cars outside onto the parking lot, where they're waiting
for the distributors to come and pick them up with a truck, simply ignored
the words on the windshield, got into the car, fired up the engine and
drove it onto the parking lot. When it was time to line the car up he
found that - duh! - it did indeed not have any working brakes, and he
slammed it into another car, which itself got slammed into the car in front
of it. There cars were totalled that day.

Ever wondered what they do to those? :p

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<gdodjc$3t0$2@registered.motzarella.org>, Adam wrote:
[color=blue]
>Moe Trin wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Reminds me of when the dealer's troops managed to ding the left
>> rear fender of my 250-SL when it was about 3 years old.[/color]
>
>Speaking of car dealers, I once saw a car slide off the road into the
>front of a dealer's lot, knocking about three or four new cars into
>each other, some already bought and waiting to be picked up. I wonder
>how the insurance handled that one, since those cars, even when
>repaired, certainly weren't worth as much as a "new" car.[/color]

One would also wonder what the dealer finally reports to the owner or
new buyer. Years ago, I was shopping for a car, and had found one that
looked like a perfect match to my needs. And it was priced LOW, even
though it was current model year (and other similar models were loaded
with the usual price rip-offs). I asked the sales-droid, and was told
NOTHING WAS WRONG with the car. "Why aren't those two over there with
the same package priced the same - I think that one is more like the
color I want". He wanders away to "ask his manager", and I'm looking
at the one with the low price. Then I noticed the front tires were a
different brand from the back tires. WTF??? Now, I _really_ started
looking closer, and noticed the gaps around the hood and grill weren't
even, and that the hood itself had some subtle curves that didn't match
left to right. Sales-droid comes back, and says the low priced car
had some factory incentive or some similar noise... right. Sales
manager comes out to try to help close the sale, and I finally pointed
out the tires, hood and what-not and asked if it came from the factory
like that. Why, he'd never noticed that... Sorry, I'm outta here.
Drove by the following day, and the car was no longer visible on the
sales lot. I never shopped at that dealer again, which was a problem
because the owner had three different brands, and that reduced my
available choices.
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Breaking news: Edie Adams died last Wednesday (Oct. 15), age 81.[/color]
>>
>> I don't see many movies or shows, but think the last movie I saw her
>> in was Mad Mad[/color]
>
>Where she was supposed to play opposite Ernie (the role that Sid Caesar
>ended up with).[/color]

"Act casual" (coming out of the hardware store basement)

That would have been interesting. I really enjoyed that movie, and
from what Stan Freberg (who did the advertising for the movie) writes
in "It Only Hurts When I Laugh" it was pure hell making the movie with
all the egos trying to 'top' the other stars, ad-libing... what's a
script, anyway? And Ethel Merman beaning everyone with her purse.

Old guy

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<2l1Mk.42375$Qh1.30633@newsfe30.ams2>, Aragorn wrote:
[color=blue]
>it was custom back then to test every new car's engine on a kind of
>dynamometer - in the first plant, this was done only to every first
>car finished by the next shift - and at a given moment in time, one
>car was doing 180 km/h when the dyno jammed. The car was catapulted
>off the dyno and flew right into two other cars that had just come
>off of it. They were scrapped.[/color]

I'm not in the car business, but I don't think they bother that much
any more. Certainly the cars delivered to the dealerships have under
3 miles on the odometer - the distance from the end of the assembly
line to the storage area, thence to the transports, and finally from
the transport to the shop at the dealer where the car is cleaned up
for sale (the infamous "dealer prep"). Engines and tranys get a
limited run-in on dynamometers at the engine facility. It's rare
to see a car subjected to any real functional testing at the factory.
That's what the "dealer prep" is supposed to catch.
[color=blue]
>On another occasion, in the first plant, one car was found to have
>defective brakes upon final inspection, and the inspector had written
>"NO BRAKES" on the windshield with a thick white marker. Yet, one of
>the guys who had to drive the finished cars outside onto the parking
>lot, where they're waiting for the distributors to come and pick them
>up with a truck, simply ignored the words on the windshield, got into
>the car, fired up the engine and drove it onto the parking lot.[/color]

Even given the dual languages of Belgium, I can still see this
happening. The guy didn't _see_ the words on the windshield.
[color=blue]
>When it was time to line the car up he found that - duh! - it did
>indeed not have any working brakes, and he slammed it into another
>car, which itself got slammed into the car in front of it. There
>cars were totalled that day.[/color]

I can see this too - the drivers can't be wasting any time by driving
slowly.
[color=blue]
>Ever wondered what they do to those? :p[/color]

Stories I hear, it depends on how bad the car is smacked up. If it's
just a fender dinged, they can replace that. Anything beyond that is
probably to expensive to repair. The design or safety types may make
a casual post-mortem to see if things crumpled as planned, but that's
it. Someone _might_ yank undamaged parts, but the labor costs are to
high to do anything useful. Scrap it! There is a magazine here
(Consumer's Reports) that tests all sorts of consumer products - cars
being one. One of the tests they do is "the bumper basher" which
simulates a 5 mph/8 kmh crash, and they then report the "repair" cost.
Years ago, the damage was minimal - at most a dent in the bumper. Now,
the damage might run 5-10 percent of the retail price of the car, and
that DOESN'T include airbag deployments would could double these
already high costs.

Old guy

On Friday 24 October 2008 04:28, someone identifying as *Moe Trin* wrote
in /alt.os.linux.mandriva:/
[color=blue]
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in
> article <2l1Mk.42375$Qh1.30633@newsfe30.ams2>, Aragorn wrote:
>[color=green]
>> it was custom back then to test every new car's engine on a kind of
>> dynamometer - in the first plant, this was done only to every first
>> car finished by the next shift - and at a given moment in time, one
>> car was doing 180 km/h when the dyno jammed. The car was catapulted
>> off the dyno and flew right into two other cars that had just come
>> off of it. They were scrapped.[/color]
>
> I'm not in the car business, but I don't think they bother that much
> any more.[/color]

Well, I don't know how things are nowadays either, of course. The anecdotes
in the above paragraph date from the early-to-mid eighties. That's in the
previous century, and dinosaurs have expired since then and all that... :p
[color=blue]
> Certainly the cars delivered to the dealerships have under
> 3 miles on the odometer - the distance from the end of the assembly
> line to the storage area, thence to the transports, and finally from
> the transport to the shop at the dealer where the car is cleaned up
> for sale (the infamous "dealer prep").[/color]

Yep, about 7 km for new cars here.
[color=blue]
> Engines and tranys get a limited run-in on dynamometers at the engine
> facility. It's rare to see a car subjected to any real functional testing
> at the factory.[/color]

Well, even if it's not for any official testing, having worked at the GM
plant myself and with a few of my friends still employed there, I know
exactly how those cars are driven out of the plant and onto the storage
area. Smoking tires and squeaking handbrake drifts are not all that
uncommon over there. 8-)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> On another occasion, in the first plant, one car was found to have
>> defective brakes upon final inspection, and the inspector had written
>> "NO BRAKES" on the windshield with a thick white marker. Yet, one of
>> the guys who had to drive the finished cars outside onto the parking
>> lot, where they're waiting for the distributors to come and pick them
>> up with a truck, simply ignored the words on the windshield, got into
>> the car, fired up the engine and drove it onto the parking lot.[/color]
>
> Even given the dual languages of Belgium, I can still see this
> happening. The guy didn't _see_ the words on the windshield.[/color]

He probably didn't see them because his mind was in a different place. The
two languages you mention - actually it's three, as there are a few
German-speaking cities in the East - are not applicable in Antwerp as it's
in the heart of the Flanders region and just about everyone there speaks
Dutch. Well, they actually speak Antwerp, which is a local Flemish dialect
of Dutch. Sort of like George W. Bush speaking a Texan dialect of American
English, i.e. a different pronunciation from - say - Oxford English, but
understandable for every English-speaking person. ;-)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> When it was time to line the car up he found that - duh! - it did
>> indeed not have any working brakes, and he slammed it into another
>> car, which itself got slammed into the car in front of it. There
>> cars were totalled that day.[/color]
>
> I can see this too - the drivers can't be wasting any time by driving
> slowly.[/color]

I don't see why not, as they're being paid by the hour. :-) But most of
those guys really *are* nuts, if you know what I mean. I've worked there,
and I can't even begin to tell what all I have seen and heard there. :-/
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Ever wondered what they do to those? :p[/color]
>
> Stories I hear, it depends on how bad the car is smacked up. If it's
> just a fender dinged, they can replace that. Anything beyond that is
> probably to expensive to repair. The design or safety types may make
> a casual post-mortem to see if things crumpled as planned, but that's
> it. Someone _might_ yank undamaged parts, but the labor costs are to
> high to do anything useful. Scrap it! There is a magazine here
> (Consumer's Reports) that tests all sorts of consumer products - cars
> being one. One of the tests they do is "the bumper basher" which
> simulates a 5 mph/8 kmh crash, and they then report the "repair" cost.
> Years ago, the damage was minimal - at most a dent in the bumper. Now,
> the damage might run 5-10 percent of the retail price of the car, and
> that DOESN'T include airbag deployments would could double these
> already high costs.[/color]

Sure, from what I hear, GM also scraps those cars. They do however have a
recycling program - in fact, GM pioneered that in Belgium - so the good
stuff will simply be taken off of the car and reused on a new one and the
damaged stuff will be recycled just as they do with the old and used cars.

And of course, now that bumpers and sometimes even fenders or entire car
bodies on new cars are manufactured from kevlar, carbonfiber or something
similar, which tends to rather break than dent or warp, the cost of
repairing that would often be too high.

From what I've heard however, cars that are only mildly damaged - i.e.
cosmetically, not structurally - are then simply deployed for transit stuff
within the Antwerp plant, until the employees driving them have totally
wrecked them through their driving antics.

For instance, I know a guy who still works there now and who's in charge of
some transit stuff, and he's a real whacko when it comes to that. There's
a 30 km/h speed limit throughout the entire compound, and there are various
speed bumps in place to enforce this policy, but the guy likes to really go
over those at high speed and get all four wheels off the ground, and stuff
like that. He's also the only guy I know who actually prides himself at
being a great driver while at the same time he manages to wear out a
brandnew clutch down to the bare metal after having driven his car for only
10'000 km, not to mention what he does to his tires. ;-)

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

On Fri, 24 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<dYlMk.91217$Zl2.46112@newsfe01.ams2>, Aragorn wrote:
[color=blue]
>*Moe Trin* wrote[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I'm not in the car business, but I don't think they bother that much
>> any more.[/color]
>
>Well, I don't know how things are nowadays either, of course. The
>anecdotes in the above paragraph date from the early-to-mid eighties.
>That's in the previous century, and dinosaurs have expired since then
>and all that... :p[/color]

Hey!!! I'm not expired.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> It's rare to see a car subjected to any real functional testing
>> at the factory.[/color]
>
>Well, even if it's not for any official testing, having worked at the
>GM plant myself and with a few of my friends still employed there, I
>know exactly how those cars are driven out of the plant and onto the
>storage area. Smoking tires and squeaking handbrake drifts are not
>all that uncommon over there. 8-)[/color]

Smoking tire and handbrake drifts are a bit newer, but I've seen
historical (film) footage of the guys taking Ford Model T cars off
the line, trying nearly as hard.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Even given the dual languages of Belgium, I can still see this
>> happening. The guy didn't _see_ the words on the windshield.[/color]
>
>He probably didn't see them because his mind was in a different place.[/color]

That happens to everyone. He's got a hot date for tonight, and is
thinking of.... never-mind.
[color=blue]
>The two languages you mention - actually it's three, as there are a
>few German-speaking cities in the East - are not applicable in Antwerp
>as it's in the heart of the Flanders region and just about everyone
>there speaks Dutch.[/color]

Oh, so you don't have those foreigners from places like Mons, or Lille?
[color=blue]
>Well, they actually speak Antwerp, which is a local Flemish dialect of
>Dutch. Sort of like George W. Bush speaking a Texan dialect of
>American English, i.e. a different pronunciation from - say - Oxford
>English, but understandable for every English-speaking person. ;-)[/color]

You can understand him??? I'm not sure Texans even understand him all
the time.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I can see this too - the drivers can't be wasting any time by
>> driving slowly.[/color]
>
>I don't see why not, as they're being paid by the hour. :-)[/color]

In 1922, the efficiency experts back at River Rouge (Ford plant about
10 KM SW of Detroit) figured that 8 guys could move all the vehicles
that came off the line - they might have to run a bit to get back from
the far end of the parking lot, but the exercise will do them good.
And adding a ninth person would cost to much! (Yes, the numbers are
false, but the concept of minimum number needed to JUST get the job
done is quite accurate.)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Stories I hear, it depends on how bad the car is smacked up. If it's
>> just a fender dinged, they can replace that. Anything beyond that is
>> probably to expensive to repair.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>Sure, from what I hear, GM also scraps those cars. They do however
>have a recycling program - in fact, GM pioneered that in Belgium - so
>the good stuff will simply be taken off of the car and reused on a new
>one and the damaged stuff will be recycled just as they do with the
>old and used cars.[/color]

A lot of people don't look at the costs that are involved. I suppose
you could use trained monkeys, but bananas are expensive, and then
there is the cost of housing them... ;-) (People don't look at
the overhead costs - the expenses like the cost of the building, the
energy used to heat/light that, the costs of the people in payroll
and elsewhere that support the worker - never mind the expenses for
vacation/holidays, worker insurance, and the like. It can total several
times the "pay rate" for the employee.) Often, the labor costs to
remove an item, inspect it, and put it back into "stock" will be a
large percentage of the cost of the part itself.
[color=blue]
>And of course, now that bumpers and sometimes even fenders or entire
>car bodies on new cars are manufactured from kevlar, carbonfiber or
>something similar, which tends to rather break than dent or warp, the
>cost of repairing that would often be too high.[/color]

When the Chevrolet Corvette got the fiberglass body back in the early
1950s, the word quickly spread on the street that you didn't want to
get into an accident with one (well, you wouldn't with any car, but...)
because the body work was extremely expensive (at that time) to repair.
There were plenty of other problem, but the body delaminating, cracking
or tearing in a crash was something the insurance companies weren't
thrilled by. (They also didn't like the idea that a lot of drivers were
trying to drive the things beyond their skill level, and getting into
problems that way.) I did lust after a Corvette for my first car, but
the dollar signs kept getting in the way (never mind that the Pontiac
was more than enough to keep me well supplied with excessive speed
tickets from the cops).
[color=blue]
>From what I've heard however, cars that are only mildly damaged - i.e.
>cosmetically, not structurally - are then simply deployed for transit
>stuff within the Antwerp plant, until the employees driving them have
>totally wrecked them through their driving antics.[/color]

That makes economic sense. Why sacrifice a salable car where you can
use something otherwise valueless.
[color=blue]
>He's also the only guy I know who actually prides himself at being a
>great driver while at the same time he manages to wear out a brandnew
>clutch down to the bare metal after having driven his car for only
>10'000 km, not to mention what he does to his tires. ;-)[/color]

The first car I got when I got out of the service - clutch lasted OK,
but the front tires were gone in 6000 miles, and the rear tires only
lasted another 1200 miles. The tires were factory crap, but the real
problem was me "driving by feel" and having gotten used to a MA-2 MPSU
aircraft tow/starting unit which had a center of gravity more than
twice as high as the car, AND had a top speed of 30 MPH. What was an
acceptable turn in one was NOT in the other.

Old guy

On Saturday 25 October 2008 22:06, someone identifying as *Moe Trin* wrote
in /alt.os.linux.mandriva:/
[color=blue]
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in
> article <dYlMk.91217$Zl2.46112@newsfe01.ams2>, Aragorn wrote:
>[color=green]
>> *Moe Trin* wrote[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> I'm not in the car business, but I don't think they bother that much
>>> any more.[/color]
>>
>> Well, I don't know how things are nowadays either, of course. The
>> anecdotes in the above paragraph date from the early-to-mid eighties.
>> That's in the previous century, and dinosaurs have expired since then
>> and all that... :p[/color]
>
> Hey!!! I'm not expired.[/color]

Don't take it so hard, I've been around since the Middle Ages myself. ;-)
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> It's rare to see a car subjected to any real functional testing
>>> at the factory.[/color]
>>
>> Well, even if it's not for any official testing, having worked at the
>> GM plant myself and with a few of my friends still employed there, I
>> know exactly how those cars are driven out of the plant and onto the
>> storage area. Smoking tires and squeaking handbrake drifts are not
>> all that uncommon over there. 8-)[/color]
>
> Smoking tire and handbrake drifts are a bit newer, but I've seen
> historical (film) footage of the guys taking Ford Model T cars off
> the line, trying nearly as hard.[/color]

Wow, drifting in a Model T... Now *that* is something I would have liked to
see... :p
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Even given the dual languages of Belgium, I can still see this
>>> happening. The guy didn't _see_ the words on the windshield.[/color]
>>
>> He probably didn't see them because his mind was in a different place.[/color]
>
> That happens to everyone. He's got a hot date for tonight, and is
> thinking of.... never-mind.[/color]

Well, I happened to know the guy as he was at the same production line as I
was when I was working there. I don't think he had a woman on his mind as
much as beer in his brain at that stage. ;-)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The two languages you mention - actually it's three, as there are a
>> few German-speaking cities in the East - are not applicable in Antwerp
>> as it's in the heart of the Flanders region and just about everyone
>> there speaks Dutch.[/color]
>
> Oh, so you don't have those foreigners from places like Mons, or Lille?[/color]

Nah, that's Wallonia, and while there are people who actually work in
another linguistic region than they're from, and even cities that support
both Flemish and French or German and French - depending on where those
cities are - Antwerp is at the heart of the Flanders and so the official
language there is Dutch.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Well, they actually speak Antwerp, which is a local Flemish dialect of
>> Dutch. Sort of like George W. Bush speaking a Texan dialect of
>> American English, i.e. a different pronunciation from - say - Oxford
>> English, but understandable for every English-speaking person. ;-)[/color]
>
> You can understand him??? I'm not sure Texans even understand him all
> the time.[/color]

I do understand his English, yes, but that doesn't mean that he's making
much sense to me everytime I see or hear him talk. :p
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> I can see this too - the drivers can't be wasting any time by
>>> driving slowly.[/color]
>>
>> I don't see why not, as they're being paid by the hour. :-)[/color]
>
> In 1922, the efficiency experts back at River Rouge (Ford plant about
> 10 KM SW of Detroit) figured that 8 guys could move all the vehicles
> that came off the line - they might have to run a bit to get back from
> the far end of the parking lot, but the exercise will do them good.
> And adding a ninth person would cost to much! (Yes, the numbers are
> false, but the concept of minimum number needed to JUST get the job
> done is quite accurate.)[/color]

Well, I'm sure it's no different at the GM plant in Antwerp, the Ford plant
in Genk, the Volvo plant in Ghent or the Volkswagen/Audi plant in Brussels.
They've got guys monitoring the time it takes to do a particular job all
the time, looking to squeeze some more work into every job or speed up the
assembly line a bit so that noone still has any time left to breathe in
between. ;-)

Back in my days, the plant where I was working ran at quite a moderate pace,
though. It gave you the chance to work back against the line so that you
could build up a little pause for yourself to have a cup of coffee and have
a smoke. I remember that eight cars was twelve minutes worth back then.

I've also spent one day at the other plant - the only one still used by GM
at present - and the pace was quite a lot higher there.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> And of course, now that bumpers and sometimes even fenders or entire
>> car bodies on new cars are manufactured from kevlar, carbonfiber or
>> something similar, which tends to rather break than dent or warp, the
>> cost of repairing that would often be too high.[/color]
>
> When the Chevrolet Corvette got the fiberglass body back in the early
> 1950s, the word quickly spread on the street that you didn't want to
> get into an accident with one (well, you wouldn't with any car, but...)
> because the body work was extremely expensive (at that time) to repair.
> There were plenty of other problem, but the body delaminating, cracking
> or tearing in a crash was something the insurance companies weren't
> thrilled by. (They also didn't like the idea that a lot of drivers were
> trying to drive the things beyond their skill level, and getting into
> problems that way.) I did lust after a Corvette for my first car, but
> the dollar signs kept getting in the way (never mind that the Pontiac
> was more than enough to keep me well supplied with excessive speed
> tickets from the cops).[/color]

I've only ever had two speed tickets - about two and a half year ago, both
within two weeks of eachother, and both by the same cop in an unmarked car
- but when I was a lot younger I had quite a stack of parking
violations. ;-)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> From what I've heard however, cars that are only mildly damaged - i.e.
>> cosmetically, not structurally - are then simply deployed for transit
>> stuff within the Antwerp plant, until the employees driving them have
>> totally wrecked them through their driving antics.[/color]
>
> That makes economic sense. Why sacrifice a salable car where you can
> use something otherwise valueless.[/color]

I agree on that. It makes perfect sense.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> He's also the only guy I know who actually prides himself at being a
>> great driver while at the same time he manages to wear out a brandnew
>> clutch down to the bare metal after having driven his car for only
>> 10'000 km, not to mention what he does to his tires. ;-)[/color]
>
> The first car I got when I got out of the service - clutch lasted OK,
> but the front tires were gone in 6000 miles, and the rear tires only
> lasted another 1200 miles. The tires were factory crap, but the real
> problem was me "driving by feel" and having gotten used to a MA-2 MPSU
> aircraft tow/starting unit which had a center of gravity more than
> twice as high as the car, AND had a top speed of 30 MPH. What was an
> acceptable turn in one was NOT in the other.[/color]

Well, all cars I've owned so far are frontwheel-driven, and when I got my
first car, I was only 22 and of course eager to show off how fast that
thing was. Not that it was really fast, but for a 1.3-liter engine it
was. ;-) And as I usually took off with spinning tires and took a lot of
turns by means of a handbrake drift, my tires didn't last for very long
either in those days.

To my defense however, my first car came with very cheap and narrow tires
from the factory. They chose one size up for the next model year, and a
few model years later, the standard tires were already chosen to be the
same width as on the earlier sports version, which was just right for that
particular car. The actual sports version then got larger rims and broader
tires.

I never did wear out a clutch, though. Sometimes I see those old people
trying to parallel-park their car and keeping the engine at high
revolutions while the car barely moves. That's devastating to the clutch.
You'll burn it right up.

I myself normally always let the clutch grab in and then release it fully
before I even touch the throttle, and contrary to many drivers, I don't use
the clutch pedal as a footrest while I'm driving either. ;-)

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

Moe Trin wrote:[color=blue][color=green]
>> I generally wait for an official release, and even then don't expect it
>> to be perfect.[/color]
>
> There are several problems here. Official release of what? The
> distribution? The application or package?[/color]

The newest versions of applications seem to be available from the app's
web site quite a while before they're included in the distro
repositories. For example, I got OpenOffice.org 3.0.0 from the OOo web
site, but it will probably take a while for it to get to the Mandriva
repositories. Of course I waited on installing it until I was done with
the project I was using it for. And many apps don't seem to be on the
Mandriva repositories (I don't expect them to have EVERYthing), but
install and run without much problem.
[color=blue]
> I'm not using KDE, but just about
> every Linux newsgroup I read (as well as comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc)
> are reporting various difficulties with KDE4. The fact that ordinary
> users are running into problems is telling me that the distributions
> are guilty of chasing version numbers.[/color]

I'm still using 2008.0 and KDE3 (KDE 3.5.9), but it looks like I
installed at least part of KDE4 in an update early last month. After
reading the posts here, though, I'm not even going to try KDE4 until a
few versions from now. A lot of what I do is "playing around" and
trying things, but I should put my effort into something that has some
chance of being useful. (Actually I've spent the past week and a half
adding to my personal 'fortune' data files. Not really useful, but I
found some good ones to add. Fortunately my enthusiasm for that is
waning, and I can get on to something more productive.)
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I'll try to be more diligent about filing bug reports when I notice
>> anything.[/color]
>
> That really does help. Even if it's not a real bug, but a perhaps a
> configuration or documentation error. One assumes you try to at least
> scan the documentation first, to be sure it's not something you are
> doing wrong. You would not be the first person to run into an error
> caused by misunderstandings.[/color]

I mentioned the unwritten general computer solution list to my mother...
she asked for it, so I think it goes something like this, in this order:

1) RTFM
2) Reboot or power cycle
3) Google search for problem
4) Update to newest version

I'm sure someone will come up with a better one.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Whatever it is, HP has agreed to replace it; now it's just a matter
>> of coordinating paperwork.[/color]
>
> That's good to hear.[/color]

Several emails and one phone call from India later, HP is going to FedEx
me a new DVD+/-R/RW drive, then I have to send back the defective drive
at their expense. Thanks for the original suggestion; I assumed I'd
have to lug the whole system somewhere and wasn't going to bother. I
guess this is an advantage of a "name brand" system with a warranty...
it's the first time I've had a "name brand" system since 1998.

Of course I'm going to check out the drive they send me, but if it's the
same as the one that broke, I'll probably switch back to the replacement
I bought (ASUS DRW-2014L1T). It's usually not quite as fast at burning,
but is better at preventing coasters.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Temps are fine.[/color][/color]

BTW I know temps are fine because I have an cron.hourly job that logs
uptime, free, hddtemp and lmsensors outputs.
[color=blue]
> It depends on how the existing cooling is arranged.[/color]

Case & power supply exhaust fans at the back, CPU fan, speeds dependent
on temperature. Bay for 2 vertical 3.5" internal drives (one unused) at
front bottom, below the front panel bays for (bottom to top) memory card
reader (empty), 3.5" drive (HD or floppy, unused), two full-height 5.25"
drives (lower one unused, top is DVD burner). ATM there's nothing
blocking the bottom of the DVD or the top of the HD.
[color=blue]
> None of my systems have more than two internal drives.[/color]

Do you mean two internal HDs, or are you counting optical drives?

Two optical drives would be more convenient than one, but wouldn't let
me do anything I can't already do with one.
[color=blue]
> External drive setups are
> easier to keep cool, AND (assuming you have the appropriate controller
> cards) pretty easy to move. USB should also have this advantage.[/color]

My choices are basically (mostly thinking out loud here, but advice from
anyone would be welcomed!):
Do I install the 2nd DVD burner that I'll have soon? If so, I'll need
an SATA card or USB to SATA converter or PATA to SATA converter, AND
Molex to SATA power adapter.
I have a PATA drive that will read (not write) DVD+/-Rs and CD-Rs (but
not RW). Cost would be zero; I suppose I could paint its beige
faceplate black.
Buy a second internal SATA HD. Would also need SATA card or USB to
SATA converter or PATA to SATA converter AND Molex to SATA power
adapter. Which would be fastest? I suppose this would be better in
front panel bay than stacked next to existing HD.
Get external USB HD. Nothing else needed.

Existing HD is 120 GB, which is adequate for daily usage. Second HD
would hold downloads and virtual machines. System has NO free SATA
ports or power connectors, one free PATA port and several Molex power
connectors, one free PCI slot, two free PCI Express slots. Need to
check speed & cost of SATA card, USB->SATA & PATA->SATA converter. Or
do the names go the other way 'round -- to plug an SATA device into a
USB port, do I need a USB to SATA converter or SATA to USB?

I can figure this out... at least now that I've written it, it's clearer
what my options are.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I'm thinking ahead to what could be transferred to my next system in
>> several years.[/color]
>
> Will they be _worth_ transferring?[/color]

That is a good point. However, (a) I could get my next system sooner
than that, and (b) even if a HD is uselessly small, I can use it for
migrating data to the new system.

I hope I'm making sense... sorry if I'm rambling; it's getting late.

Adam

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
<qEQMk.166988$I31.129910@newsfe24.ams2>, Aragorn wrote:
[color=blue]
>*Moe Trin* wrote[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Smoking tire and handbrake drifts are a bit newer, but I've seen
>> historical (film) footage of the guys taking Ford Model T cars off
>> the line, trying nearly as hard.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>Wow, drifting in a Model T... Now *that* is something I would have
>liked to see... :p[/color]

Now that I think of it, what was the "Police Patrol" vehicle that Max
Sennett used in the "Keystone Cops" series. It was always skidding
sideways around turns.
[color=blue]
>Well, I happened to know the guy as he was at the same production line
>as I was when I was working there. I don't think he had a woman on
>his mind as much as beer in his brain at that stage. ;-)[/color]

That will work too.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> In 1922, the efficiency experts back at River Rouge (Ford plant about
>> 10 KM SW of Detroit) figured that 8 guys could move all the vehicles
>> that came off the line - they might have to run a bit to get back from
>> the far end of the parking lot, but the exercise will do them good.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>Well, I'm sure it's no different at the GM plant in Antwerp, the Ford
>plant in Genk, the Volvo plant in Ghent or the Volkswagen/Audi plant
>in Brussels. They've got guys monitoring the time it takes to do a
>particular job all the time, looking to squeeze some more work into
>every job or speed up the assembly line a bit so that noone still has
>any time left to breathe in between. ;-)[/color]

That's true in most industries. Worker productivity has to improve
in order for them to get higher profits or lower costs.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I did lust after a Corvette for my first car, but the dollar signs
>> kept getting in the way (never mind that the Pontiac was more than
>> enough to keep me well supplied with excessive speed tickets from
>> the cops).[/color][/color]

Number two brother-in-law warned me to price the insurance before
buying anything. For the (minimal) state mandated insurance, the
annual cost was a quarter of what I paid for the Pontiac (I was
single, male, under 25). The higher price of the Corvette, and the
significantly higher cost of insurance was what killed it.
[color=blue]
>I've only ever had two speed tickets - about two and a half year ago,
>both within two weeks of eachother, and both by the same cop in an
>unmarked car - but when I was a lot younger I had quite a stack of
>parking violations. ;-)[/color]

Some states prohibit unmarked cars. However some of those states
don't specify what the markings should look like, so one state was
using a plate on the back of the car about 30 cm square painted the
same color as the car, with a darker shade of the same color used to
make the shield and letters. Unfair!!! But one becomes wiser with
age, and I haven't had a speeding ticket in 12 years, and only one
parking violation in the same period.
[color=blue]
>Well, all cars I've owned so far are frontwheel-driven,[/color]

Relatively rare here
[color=blue]
>and when I got my first car, I was only 22 and of course eager to
>show off how fast that thing was.[/color]

As mentioned above - "single, male, under 25"
[color=blue]
>Not that it was really fast, but for a 1.3-liter engine it was. ;-)
>And as I usually took off with spinning tires and took a lot of turns
>by means of a handbrake drift, my tires didn't last for very long
>either in those days.[/color]

We've discussed this before - mine was a 300 HP 6.4 liter.
[color=blue]
>I never did wear out a clutch, though. Sometimes I see those old
>people trying to parallel-park their car and keeping the engine at
>high revolutions while the car barely moves. That's devastating to
>the clutch. You'll burn it right up.[/color]

I've never had to replace a clutch (and never owned a car with an
automatic transmission). Learning to drive in "hilly country" (though
the highest point is only 725 meters above the lowest - fairly similar
to Belgium), one learned how to use the clutch especially when starting
from a stop on an incline.

Old guy