Mandrivalinux VERSUS Ubuntu/Kubuntu - Mandriva

This is a discussion on Mandrivalinux VERSUS Ubuntu/Kubuntu - Mandriva ; Hi, I just tested Ubuntu and Kubuntu. There are so much articles about them on the net... Most of the task has to be done manualy. Exemple : add nvidia proprietary driver, change the Xorg.conf, configure the differents servers... And ...

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  1. Mandrivalinux VERSUS Ubuntu/Kubuntu


    Hi,

    I just tested Ubuntu and Kubuntu. There are so much articles about them on
    the net... Most of the task has to be done manualy. Exemple : add nvidia
    proprietary driver, change the Xorg.conf, configure the differents
    servers... And even more supprising, most of their tools have bugs:

    - Installing nvidia packages for exemple trashed the Xorg.conf and my french
    keyboard (back to english) and I had to do it by hand.
    - The graphical applications installer (to install program) is out of date.
    - Repository not working by default for french people, have to back to the
    official repository.
    - No way to see what happen when booting without changing the grub config
    file.
    - The DVD installer have no much option (but I liked the fact that you can
    use it as a life DVD).
    - Bugs there and there... The deb packages suffer from it design (patches
    handling and ease).
    - They plebiscite apt-get, apt-cache, sinaptic. Those tools have always been
    a joke in Debian and are still the same in Ubuntu. Why do they print all
    those information that way?
    - This is not the only part of this distro showing information as garbage,
    the initscripts too just print its information as they can...
    - No root password at start. You need to "sudo su root" to create one.
    - ...

    I stop here. I'm loosing my time with this. To much things to write. Even
    geeks should prefer Mandrivalinux, this is how I see it. And Mandriva
    doesn't know how to grab attention to be appreciate. They just don't know
    how to talk about themselves. Stupid French !!! Even their enterprise
    support is invisible to the public.

    Next distro Novell Suse Linux. They tell on the net that this is the best
    for the enterprise. Will see.

    All this press for Ubuntu... this is big mind manipulation.

  2. Re: Mandrivalinux VERSUS Ubuntu/Kubuntu

    Amrein-Marie Christophe wrote:

    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I just tested Ubuntu and Kubuntu. There are so much articles about them on
    > the net... Most of the task has to be done manualy. Exemple : add nvidia
    > proprietary driver, [...


    Yes, Ubuntu is based upon Debian, and Debian is quite adamant about wanting
    to use Free (Libre) Software only.

    > ...] change the Xorg.conf, configure the differents servers... And even
    > more supprising, most of their tools have bugs:
    >
    > - Installing nvidia packages for exemple trashed the Xorg.conf and my
    > french keyboard (back to english) and I had to do it by hand.


    Considering that they are proprietary packages, you can hardly blame Ubuntu
    over this. I suppose something must have gone wrong with the proprietary
    driver installer.

    > [...]
    > - No way to see what happen when booting without changing the grub config
    > file.


    As I was told by someone who uses Ubuntu, you have to press /Alt+F4/ to go
    to the verbose boot sequence. I can neither corroborate nor contradict
    this by lack of personal experience with Ubuntu. ;-)

    > [...]
    > - No root password at start. You need to "sudo su root" to create one.


    That's not a bug, that's a feature, and typical of all Ubuntu-derived
    distributions. They simply disable the root account (by setting it up
    without a password for the login shell) and give the firstly created user
    account /sudo/ privileges instead.

    While I personally feel that direct root logins are best disabled - both
    via /ssh/ or on the local console - I also find that the use of /sudo/ has
    some serious security implications. Using /su/ instead would be more
    secure, as one would therefore need to know the root password as well as
    the unprivileged user account password.

    > - ...
    >
    > I stop here. I'm loosing my time with this. To much things to write. Even
    > geeks should prefer Mandrivalinux, this is how I see it.


    Real Geeks (TM) tend to favor other distros, like Linux From Scratch,
    Gentoo, Slackware or Debian, in descending order of complexity. ;-)

    > And Mandriva doesn't know how to grab attention to be appreciate. They
    > just don't know how to talk about themselves. Stupid French !!! Even their
    > enterprise support is invisible to the public.


    Well, it is my experience that Mandriva as a company is suffering from a
    severe degree of /corporatitis,/ with an equally severe inability to
    communicate properly with their user base and even their paying customers.

    Their communication so far seems highly limited to near-spamlike
    newsletters.

    Still, Mandriva as a distro is still a good choice. It's nicely balanced
    between being on the cutting edge and reliability. ;-)

    > Next distro Novell Suse Linux. They tell on the net that this is the best
    > for the enterprise. Will see.


    That's just because it has an enterprise nametag to it. Novell went in
    league with The Evil Empire (TM), and many other even so clueless
    distributors have tread into the same sewergrade alliance in Novell's
    footsteps.

    > All this press for Ubuntu... this is big mind manipulation.


    Well, you have to see it another way. Ubuntu was an attempt at offering a
    completely free - both in terms of Libre Software and in terms of gratis
    software - distribution for the large masses, and in particular for desktop
    and laptop computers.

    All in all, I don't think they've done such a bad job at it, apart from that
    Ubuntu is typically aimed at the beginner, while the fact that the default
    set-up only allows GUI applications for one specific desktop environment -
    making it hard to install The GIMP on Kubuntu, for instance - makes it
    rather difficult for the beginner.

    It starts out "less complicated" than other, more versatile distributions,
    but the newbie will inadvertently get used to this set-up and become
    confronted with difficulties later on trying to extend the distribution
    beyond the rather limited default software offer.

    So personally, I think the Ubuntu concept is okay, but for a more
    experienced user. Not for newbies. ;-)

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  3. Re: Mandrivalinux VERSUS Ubuntu/Kubuntu

    Aragorn wrote:

    > Amrein-Marie Christophe wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Hi,
    >> ...
    >> ...] change the Xorg.conf, configure the differents servers... And even
    >> more supprising, most of their tools have bugs:
    >>
    >> - Installing nvidia packages for exemple trashed the Xorg.conf and my
    >> french keyboard (back to english) and I had to do it by hand.

    >
    > Considering that they are proprietary packages, you can hardly blame
    > Ubuntu
    > over this. I suppose something must have gone wrong with the proprietary
    > driver installer.
    >


    Yes but why provide a buggy package?

    >> [...]
    >> - No way to see what happen when booting without changing the grub config
    >> file.

    >
    > As I was told by someone who uses Ubuntu, you have to press /Alt+F4/ to go
    > to the verbose boot sequence. I can neither corroborate nor contradict
    > this by lack of personal experience with Ubuntu. ;-)
    >


    When doing this while in X11 for example, the PC just freeze. This is a know
    bug too (already saw this on the net while searching for a fix).

    >> [...]
    >> - No root password at start. You need to "sudo su root" to create one.

    >
    > That's not a bug, that's a feature, and typical of all Ubuntu-derived
    > distributions. They simply disable the root account (by setting it up
    > without a password for the login shell) and give the firstly created user
    > account /sudo/ privileges instead.


    Yes, I know. But without documentation, a new user will need to get its
    Internet connection working to be able to see how to work around. I used
    Mandriva for years but I already used Debian so I have no issue finding the
    solution but I'm thinking about new users. The newcomers...

    >
    > While I personally feel that direct root logins are best disabled - both
    > via /ssh/ or on the local console - I also find that the use of /sudo/ has
    > some serious security implications. Using /su/ instead would be more
    > secure, as one would therefore need to know the root password as well as
    > the unprivileged user account password.
    >


    I completely agree.

    >> And Mandriva doesn't know how to grab attention to be appreciate. They
    >> just don't know how to talk about themselves. Stupid French !!! Even
    >> their enterprise support is invisible to the public.

    >
    > Well, it is my experience that Mandriva as a company is suffering from a
    > severe degree of /corporatitis,/ with an equally severe inability to
    > communicate properly with their user base and even their paying customers.
    >
    > Their communication so far seems highly limited to near-spamlike
    > newsletters.
    >
    > Still, Mandriva as a distro is still a good choice. It's nicely balanced
    > between being on the cutting edge and reliability. ;-)
    >


    I completely agree. I saw on cooker mailing list better developers
    communication but they still lake better users communication.
    Be the best is not enough. Even if you are not, a good communication will
    force other to think you ARE the best and this is enough.


    >> ...

    > So personally, I think the Ubuntu concept is okay, but for a more
    > experienced user. Not for newbies. ;-)
    >



    Better than Debian because designed more for the community. Not better (not
    easier and polished) than Mandriva, Suse, Fedora. Sure.


  4. Re: Mandrivalinux VERSUS Ubuntu/Kubuntu

    I want *any* distro which supports my outdated hardware, and Gimp. No
    more, no less. Since i get desperated with mandriva (and get no
    support) i try Ubuntu (again)

    As OP, i had the experience that the X11 config file can get screwed
    up.

    Installer corrupted my whole partition table and i would have been
    lost without a smart software called test disk, a must have...

    iso-scan is buggy, etc.


    L




  5. Re: Mandrivalinux VERSUS Ubuntu/Kubuntu

    Amrein-Marie Christophe wrote:

    > Aragorn wrote:
    >
    >> Considering that they are proprietary packages, you can hardly blame
    >> Ubuntu over this. I suppose something must have gone wrong with the
    >> proprietary driver installer.

    >
    > Yes but why provide a buggy package?


    Ahhh, but that's just one of the things that are wrong about proprietary
    software and why Free & Open Source Software is The Right Way (TM). :-)
    >
    >>> [...]
    >>> - No way to see what happen when booting without changing the grub
    >>> config file.

    >>
    >> As I was told by someone who uses Ubuntu, you have to press /Alt+F4/ to
    >> go to the verbose boot sequence. I can neither corroborate nor
    >> contradict this by lack of personal experience with Ubuntu. ;-)

    >
    > When doing this while in X11 for example, the PC just freeze. This is a
    > know bug too (already saw this on the net while searching for a fix).


    Oh, you are talking about switching to a different virtual console? Well,
    it's possible that this is a bug - I couldn't tell as I've never even used
    Ubuntu myself - but I was making a comment with regard to switching virtual
    terminals during the System V /init,/ at boot time. ;-)

    --
    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  6. Re: Mandrivalinux VERSUS Ubuntu/Kubuntu

    Aragorn wrote:

    > Amrein-Marie Christophe wrote:
    >
    >> Aragorn wrote:
    >>
    >>> Considering that they are proprietary packages, you can hardly blame
    >>> Ubuntu over this. I suppose something must have gone wrong with the
    >>> proprietary driver installer.

    >>
    >> Yes but why provide a buggy package?

    >
    > Ahhh, but that's just one of the things that are wrong about proprietary
    > software and why Free & Open Source Software is The Right Way (TM). :-)
    >>


    Yes but no, those .deb packages are not built by NVidia but by/for Ubuntu.
    In Mandriva, the NVidia "src.rpm" package also uses the binary driver. It's
    extracted to get the binary part and the source part (source to be able to
    glue the binary to the current kernel). A few changes are done in the
    source before the rpm builder output the relevant i586.rpm packages. And
    those rpms just work. Ubuntu .deb packages are buggy. That's it.

    And yes, I would love to see Renouveau or NV drivers completely replace the
    NVidia closed source driver. If I was a hardware hacker...

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