Seeing My Camera - Mandriva

This is a discussion on Seeing My Camera - Mandriva ; On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:04:55 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote: > As stated, I have no such directory. Mdk 2006. > > (I know where to look for removables, and it's /mnt. ) I haven't been following this closely, ...

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Thread: Seeing My Camera

  1. Re: Seeing My Camera

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:04:55 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

    > As stated, I have no such directory. Mdk 2006.
    >
    > (I know where to look for removables, and it's /mnt. )


    I haven't been following this closely, and I don't use KDE, but from what
    I gather, your cam shows up with usbview. From there, you must load the
    driver. Last I saw the driver (epcam IIRC) was still under development and
    not in the kernel sources. I know it's not a part of 2008, so unless
    you're using a later kernel or have manually compiled the driver, you
    don't have it. Without it, you're not going to get it mounted. If you have
    5the driver loaded, then all you have to do is either mount it manually
    with mount, or create an fstab entry you can use. And it doesn't have to
    be in /mnt. You can call it whatever you want as long as you create the
    mount point. And you have to create the mount point before you can mount
    it. If all this has been covered then just disregard it.:-)

    Makes me wonder if there's a driver for my camera now. I just plug the mem
    card into a reader.

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  2. Re: Seeing My Camera

    sid wrote:

    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> If your camera only supports PTP then that's what your going to have to
    >>> live with unless you want to use your card reader. And seeing as you've

    >>
    >> Really? As I said from the beginning of the thread, some programs see
    >> the camera

    >
    > Yes, they are the programs that can use PTP.


    I guess that involves a mountless mounting of the media. I was not aware
    of mountless mounting. I live and learn.

    >> despite my file manager not showing it under /mnt. So I guess I really
    >> won't have to live with using a card reader, eh?

    >
    > Depends whether you want to see the camera under /mnt or not doesn't it?
    > I thought that was what you wanted.


    That would be a convenience, because that way I could open it directly
    with The GIMP. But it's no big deal to use digiKam to access it. At some
    point in the discussion, my thrust has changed from trying to get it
    mounted to simply curiosity about how it's working fine (albeit not
    showing up) without being mounted.

    >>> already said you don't want to use your card reader you'll have to
    >>> live with the cameras behaviour.

    >>
    >> PS: The camera behaves normally enough (plug it in and it shows up on
    >> file manager) on my Win laptop.

    >
    > And since when did windows behaviour bear any resemblance to linux
    > behaviour


    USB is USB. I don't believe there's a version of USB for each operating
    sytsem. Thus my note about the laptop.

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  3. Re: Seeing My Camera

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:52:05 -0500, Blinky the Shark wrote:

    > sid wrote:
    >> Yes, they are the programs that can use PTP.

    > I guess that involves a mountless mounting of the media. I was not aware
    > of mountless mounting. I live and learn.


    Think of it as using ftp, or http, to access a remote file. It is a transfer
    protocol, for your computer to talk to the computer in the camera, not a
    storage device driver. How the information, obtained using ptp, is displayed
    to the user, is up to the software on your system. Hence, it may be displayed
    as a device, or a directory, from the users point of view.

    Regards, Dave Hodgins

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  4. Re: Seeing My Camera

    Wes Newell wrote:

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:04:55 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >> As stated, I have no such directory. Mdk 2006.
    >>
    >> (I know where to look for removables, and it's /mnt. )

    >
    > I haven't been following this closely, and I don't use KDE, but from what
    > I gather, your cam shows up with usbview. From there, you must load the


    Yes, it does.

    > driver. Last I saw the driver (epcam IIRC) was still under development
    > and not in the kernel sources. I know it's not a part of 2008, so unless
    > you're using a later kernel or have manually compiled the driver, you


    Whatever kernel that came with Mdk 2006.

    > don't have it. Without it, you're not going to get it mounted. If you


    Driver for what? For this PTP thing that I've never encountered before
    running up against this camera?

    > have 5the driver loaded, then all you have to do is either mount it
    > manually with mount, or create an fstab entry you can use. And it
    > doesn't have to be in /mnt. You can call it whatever you want as long as
    > you create the mount point. And you have to create the mount point
    > before you can mount it. If all this has been covered then just
    > disregard it.:-)


    That's a lot of stuff that I don't have to do to see the same xD card when
    it's in my other Fuji camera. I just plug it in and it comes up under
    /mnt.

    > Makes me wonder if there's a driver for my camera now. I just plug the
    > mem card into a reader.


    I just use digiKam, which sees it fine. I'm even getting to like the
    program.


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  5. Re: Seeing My Camera

    David W. Hodgins wrote:

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:52:05 -0500, Blinky the Shark
    > wrote:
    >
    >> sid wrote:
    >>> Yes, they are the programs that can use PTP.

    >> I guess that involves a mountless mounting of the media. I was not
    >> aware of mountless mounting. I live and learn.

    >
    > Think of it as using ftp, or http, to access a remote file. It is a
    > transfer protocol, for your computer to talk to the computer in the
    > camera, not a storage device driver. How the information, obtained using


    Yeah, I'm finally realizing that.

    > ptp, is displayed to the user, is up to the software on your system.
    > Hence, it may be displayed as a device, or a directory, from the users
    > point of view.


    With the app I'm now using to access the camera (I'd never explored it
    before, but since it sees the camera/card I've grown to like it a lot
    ), it just looks like a directory.


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  6. Re: Seeing My Camera

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > Unruh wrote:
    >
    >> Blinky the Shark writes:
    >>
    >>> Philip Jones wrote:
    >>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:59:04 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> sid wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> sid wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Is there a setting on your camera to change the communication
    >>>>>>>> method from PTP to usb?
    >>>>>>> I don't know, but the display shows "USB" when I have the USB cable
    >>>>>>> plugged into it.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> And, as I said, usbview shows it.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> You'd find that you can also access it in PTP mode from the import
    >>>>>>>> function in programs like Gthumb or Digikam and the like.
    >>>>>>> I use gview and the gimp. I can look around for this.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> But I'd like to simply find it under /mnt. Again -- if usbview sees
    >>>>>>> it and Konq can find it, why is it not showing up?
    >>>>>> Cameras act in one of two ways. They either communicate by acting as
    >>>>>> a mass storage device or they communicate using PTP, picture transfer
    >>>>>> protocol. Which they use determines how you can access it. Like I
    >>>>>> said, some cameras have a setting somewhere to change the way they
    >>>>>> communicate.
    >>>>> And like I said, usbview does see it.
    >>>> Look under /Media
    >>> As stated, I have no such directory. Mdk 2006.

    >> Ah. Now he tells us what version of Mandriva he uses. No, 2006 did not
    >> have /media.
    >> However, the usb rules probably do not have your new camera listed either,
    >> so the system has no idea what to do with your usb dongle.

    >
    > How does the digiKam program, which came with my copy of Mandriva two
    > years ago find the camera if it's not mounted?


    Uses gphoto2. If it's not a flash drive camera, maybe installing the
    latest gphoto2 would get you there. I had to do that with 2006, when my
    wife got a Canon camera. Wasn't fun. Had to find dependencies. Can't
    remember what they were.

    Frank

  7. Re: Seeing My Camera

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    ....

    > USB is USB. I don't believe there's a version of USB for each operating
    > sytsem. Thus my note about the laptop.
    >


    If you believe that's enough to let you mount it, I've got an LG u830
    "Chocolate" mobile phone here that you might tell me how to use. Usbview
    can see it (it claims to be a USB modem) but I cannot see any filesystem
    that I could copy mp3s onto or photos off of.

    On Windows, there's a CD that lets you install a driver and it comes up
    as another icon in the Windows Explorer tree view on the left there.

    Still, can't see any photos or mp3s there either

    USB is just a bus. Like you can't mount a PCI graphics card the way you
    mount a SCSI drive in a PCI slot, there's different USB devices too.

    Frank

  8. Re: Seeing My Camera

    Frank Peelo wrote:

    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >> Unruh wrote:
    >>
    >>> Blinky the Shark writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Philip Jones wrote:
    >>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:59:04 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> sid wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> sid wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Is there a setting on your camera to change the communication
    >>>>>>>>> method from PTP to usb?
    >>>>>>>> I don't know, but the display shows "USB" when I have the USB
    >>>>>>>> cable plugged into it.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> And, as I said, usbview shows it.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> You'd find that you can also access it in PTP mode from the
    >>>>>>>>> import function in programs like Gthumb or Digikam and the like.
    >>>>>>>> I use gview and the gimp. I can look around for this.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> But I'd like to simply find it under /mnt. Again -- if usbview
    >>>>>>>> sees it and Konq can find it, why is it not showing up?
    >>>>>>> Cameras act in one of two ways. They either communicate by acting
    >>>>>>> as a mass storage device or they communicate using PTP, picture
    >>>>>>> transfer protocol. Which they use determines how you can access it.
    >>>>>>> Like I said, some cameras have a setting somewhere to change the
    >>>>>>> way they communicate.
    >>>>>> And like I said, usbview does see it.
    >>>>> Look under /Media
    >>>> As stated, I have no such directory. Mdk 2006.
    >>> Ah. Now he tells us what version of Mandriva he uses. No, 2006 did not
    >>> have /media.
    >>> However, the usb rules probably do not have your new camera listed
    >>> either, so the system has no idea what to do with your usb dongle.

    >>
    >> How does the digiKam program, which came with my copy of Mandriva two
    >> years ago find the camera if it's not mounted?

    >
    > Uses gphoto2. If it's not a flash drive camera, maybe installing the


    Wouldn't that xD/SD card [1] make it a "flash drive camera"?

    [1] I picked up a larger card (SD) today and replaced the old (xD) card.


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  9. Re: Seeing My Camera

    Frank Peelo wrote:

    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > ...
    >
    >> USB is USB. I don't believe there's a version of USB for each operating
    >> sytsem. Thus my note about the laptop.
    >>
    >>

    > If you believe that's enough to let you mount it, I've got an LG u830
    > "Chocolate" mobile phone here that you might tell me how to use. Usbview
    > can see it (it claims to be a USB modem) but I cannot see any filesystem
    > that I could copy mp3s onto or photos off of.


    I feel yer pain.

    All I can say is that usbview sees it and identifies it as a camera.



    USB PTP Camera
    Serial Number: 592D31353531070807969O2O20F665
    Speed: 480Mb/s (high)
    USB Version: 2.00
    Device Class: 00(>ifc )
    Device Subclass: 00
    Device Protocol: 00
    Maximum Default Endpoint Size: 64
    Number of Configurations: 1
    Vendor Id: 04cb
    Product Id: 01c6
    Revision Number: 1.00

    Config Number: 1
    Number of Interfaces: 1
    Attributes: c0
    MaxPower Needed: 50mA

    Interface Number: 0
    Name: (none)
    Alternate Number: 0
    Class: 06(still)
    Sub Class: 01
    Protocol: 01
    Number of Endpoints: 3

    Endpoint Address: 01
    Direction: out
    Attribute: 2
    Type: Bulk
    Max Packet Size: 512
    Interval: 125us

    Endpoint Address: 82
    Direction: in
    Attribute: 2
    Type: Bulk
    Max Packet Size: 512
    Interval: 0ms

    Endpoint Address: 83
    Direction: in
    Attribute: 3
    Type: Int.
    Max Packet Size: 32
    Interval: 128ms





    > On Windows, there's a CD that lets you install a driver and it comes up
    > as another icon in the Windows Explorer tree view on the left there.


    With this camera and XP, I didn't bother with the Win CD -- never even
    took it outta the sleeve. The camera was seen, identified by make and
    model, installed, and shows up in the file manager.

    > Still, can't see any photos or mp3s there either




    > USB is just a bus. Like you can't mount a PCI graphics card the way you
    > mount a SCSI drive in a PCI slot, there's different USB devices too.


    Right. And I thought a memory card was a memory card. As in: this card
    shows up as a mounted removable device under /mnt if it's in my other
    camera of the same make.

    At any rate, all's well now that I found a program that sees it despite
    it not being mounted.


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  10. Re: Seeing My Camera

    On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:34:04 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

    > Wes Newell wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:04:55 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>
    >>> As stated, I have no such directory. Mdk 2006.
    >>>
    >>> (I know where to look for removables, and it's /mnt. )

    >>
    >> I haven't been following this closely, and I don't use KDE, but from
    >> what I gather, your cam shows up with usbview. From there, you must
    >> load the

    >
    > Yes, it does.
    >
    >> driver. Last I saw the driver (epcam IIRC) was still under development
    >> and not in the kernel sources. I know it's not a part of 2008, so
    >> unless you're using a later kernel or have manually compiled the
    >> driver, you

    >
    > Whatever kernel that came with Mdk 2006.
    >

    I can pretty much guarantee that there's no driver for it in 2006.

    >> don't have it. Without it, you're not going to get it mounted. If you

    >
    > Driver for what? For this PTP thing that I've never encountered before
    > running up against this camera?
    >

    Driver to turn your camera into a USB storage device so you can access it
    like any other storage device. Until you install the driver the camera is
    just another device sitting on the USB bus with no way to communicate to
    the file system. A little more research reveals that the driver you need
    to load is se401. The problem is that the source code for this module dos
    NOT include support for the epcam module. Here's the website, but it looks
    like work on it stopped for some reason. You might try downloading and
    using the module from this se401-0.20.tar.gz, but I don't know how well it
    will work. Or you could try the later patch. I just don't know. Contact
    the author maybe.

    http://members.chello.nl/~j.vreeken/se401/

    PTP is something totally different.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_Transfer_Protocol

    >> have 5the driver loaded, then all you have to do is either mount it
    >> manually with mount, or create an fstab entry you can use. And it
    >> doesn't have to be in /mnt. You can call it whatever you want as long
    >> as you create the mount point. And you have to create the mount point
    >> before you can mount it. If all this has been covered then just
    >> disregard it.:-)

    >
    > That's a lot of stuff that I don't have to do to see the same xD card
    > when it's in my other Fuji camera. I just plug it in and it comes up
    > under /mnt.
    >

    That may be all you do, but the system does a lot more. And it obviously
    has a driver for that cam.

    >> Makes me wonder if there's a driver for my camera now. I just plug the
    >> mem card into a reader.

    >
    > I just use digiKam, which sees it fine. I'm even getting to like the
    > program.


    That's the easy way. i like easy ways.:-)

    --
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  11. Re: Seeing My Camera

    Wes Newell wrote:

    > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:34:04 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >> Wes Newell wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:04:55 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> As stated, I have no such directory. Mdk 2006.
    >>>>
    >>>> (I know where to look for removables, and it's /mnt. )
    >>>
    >>> I haven't been following this closely, and I don't use KDE, but from
    >>> what I gather, your cam shows up with usbview. From there, you must
    >>> load the

    >>
    >> Yes, it does.
    >>
    >>> driver. Last I saw the driver (epcam IIRC) was still under development
    >>> and not in the kernel sources. I know it's not a part of 2008, so
    >>> unless you're using a later kernel or have manually compiled the
    >>> driver, you

    >>
    >> Whatever kernel that came with Mdk 2006.
    >>

    > I can pretty much guarantee that there's no driver for it in 2006.


    That would be my bet.

    >>> don't have it. Without it, you're not going to get it mounted. If you

    >>
    >> Driver for what? For this PTP thing that I've never encountered before
    >> running up against this camera?
    >>

    > Driver to turn your camera into a USB storage device so you can access it
    > like any other storage device. Until you install the driver the camera is
    > just another device sitting on the USB bus with no way to communicate to
    > the file system. A little more research reveals that the driver you need
    > to load is se401. The problem is that the source code for this module dos
    > NOT include support for the epcam module. Here's the website, but it looks
    > like work on it stopped for some reason. You might try downloading and
    > using the module from this se401-0.20.tar.gz, but I don't know how well it
    > will work. Or you could try the later patch. I just don't know. Contact
    > the author maybe.


    I'm content to use the program that *can* access the camera/card, Wes.
    I've even got to like that program. Thus, it's not a big deal - now -
    that it doesn't show up anywhere in my file system.

    > http://members.chello.nl/~j.vreeken/se401/
    >
    > PTP is something totally different.
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_Transfer_Protocol


    That, I'll read. Should've thought of that earlier.

    >>> have 5the driver loaded, then all you have to do is either mount it
    >>> manually with mount, or create an fstab entry you can use. And it
    >>> doesn't have to be in /mnt. You can call it whatever you want as long
    >>> as you create the mount point. And you have to create the mount point
    >>> before you can mount it. If all this has been covered then just
    >>> disregard it.:-)

    >>
    >> That's a lot of stuff that I don't have to do to see the same xD card
    >> when it's in my other Fuji camera. I just plug it in and it comes up
    >> under /mnt.
    >>

    > That may be all you do, but the system does a lot more. And it obviously
    > has a driver for that cam.


    Well, that program does, at least. The Main Menu has a "Cameras" choice,
    and when I click it it offers me "USB PTP Type Camera". I click that and
    there are the photos on the camera.

    >>> Makes me wonder if there's a driver for my camera now. I just plug the
    >>> mem card into a reader.

    >>
    >> I just use digiKam, which sees it fine. I'm even getting to like the
    >> program.

    >
    > That's the easy way. i like easy ways.:-)


    I considered it a workaround, but it's a lot less work than the
    not-workarounds that have been offered.


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  12. Re: Seeing My Camera

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > Frank Peelo wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>
    >>>Unruh wrote:

    ....
    >>>>However, the usb rules probably do not have your new camera listed
    >>>>either, so the system has no idea what to do with your usb dongle.
    >>>
    >>>How does the digiKam program, which came with my copy of Mandriva two
    >>>years ago find the camera if it's not mounted?

    >>
    >>Uses gphoto2. If it's not a flash drive camera, maybe installing the

    >
    >
    > Wouldn't that xD/SD card [1] make it a "flash drive camera"?


    Not from the POV of the PC with Mandriva on it. All it sees is a PTP
    device -- rather than a mass storage device -- plugged in the USB. It
    can't see whether it is built with an SD card, or magnetic tape, or a
    bank of abacusses.

    But it sounds like you've seen PTP understood by Windows Explorer and/or
    Konqueror. That's really cool, if it works! Would mean that PTP is
    getting to be a standard protocol though, which means I really wish the
    IEEE1588 people had chosen a different TLA for their Precision Time
    Protocol. World is confusing enough already.

    Frank

  13. Re: Seeing My Camera

    Frank Peelo wrote:

    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >> Frank Peelo wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Unruh wrote:

    > ...
    >>>>>However, the usb rules probably do not have your new camera listed
    >>>>>either, so the system has no idea what to do with your usb dongle.
    >>>>
    >>>>How does the digiKam program, which came with my copy of Mandriva two
    >>>>years ago find the camera if it's not mounted?
    >>>
    >>>Uses gphoto2. If it's not a flash drive camera, maybe installing the

    >>
    >>
    >> Wouldn't that xD/SD card [1] make it a "flash drive camera"?

    >
    > Not from the POV of the PC with Mandriva on it. All it sees is a PTP
    > device -- rather than a mass storage device -- plugged in the USB. It
    > can't see whether it is built with an SD card, or magnetic tape, or a bank
    > of abacusses.
    >
    > But it sounds like you've seen PTP understood by Windows Explorer and/or
    > Konqueror. That's really cool, if it works! Would mean that PTP is getting
    > to be a standard protocol though, which means I really wish the IEEE1588
    > people had chosen a different TLA for their Precision Time Protocol.
    > World is confusing enough already.


    Yes, by Konqueror as a browser. And sure, it seems to be a good thing
    that the protocol is becoming accepted. As for Win Explorer, the camera
    shows up - as you and others have said or implied it should - as "itself",
    not as a flash/removable/massStorage device:

    http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/ptp.jpg

    And yes, that's a point'n'shoot.[1] I wanted a little snapshot cam to
    toss in the car and/or my gear bag for work, rather than dragging my real
    camera kit (a DSLR) around with me.

    [1] But the little bastage is 8MP to my SLR's 6.


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