2008: Can't burn CDs - Mandriva

This is a discussion on 2008: Can't burn CDs - Mandriva ; Warren Post writes: >On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:13:15 +0000, Unruh wrote: >> Warren Post writes: >> >>>With mdv2008, the 2.6.22.12-desktop-1 kernel, and KDE 3.5, I am unable >>>to burn CDs. I first noticed this trying to set up backups ...

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Thread: 2008: Can't burn CDs

  1. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    Warren Post writes:

    >On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:13:15 +0000, Unruh wrote:


    >> Warren Post writes:
    >>
    >>>With mdv2008, the 2.6.22.12-desktop-1 kernel, and KDE 3.5, I am unable
    >>>to burn CDs. I first noticed this trying to set up backups in MCC. When
    >>>choosing to back up manually within MCC, I see that the backup tarballs
    >>>are correctly created and written to the hard disk, but they are not
    >>>subsequently written to CD. Relevant output of the MCC backup utility
    >>>is:

    >>
    >> You could try cdrecord, rather than wodim.


    >Sounds good. How would I do that? I have cdrecord installed but
    >drakbackup doesn't provide this option, and K3B won't even launch.


    How did you install cdrecord? It is not on the 2008 disks. You can get it
    from 2007.0



  2. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    "Robert M. Riches Jr." writes:

    >On 2007-12-28, Unruh wrote:
    >>
    >> Or perhaps that they reinstall cdrecord, rather than wodim as the cd
    >> burning software. Note that you can also use cdrdao, which for SAO I find
    >> better and more reliable than either wodim or cdrecord. But it is not as
    >> flexible. And demands that you write at least a shell toc file first.


    >Thanks for the info about cdrdao. I have used cdrecord on
    >my 2007.0 systems, and it looks like I will switch to cdrdao
    >when I move to 2008.0 in a few weeks. The man page has some
    >rather complex TOC file examples. Could someone post a TOC
    >file for burning a single, simple ISO image and one for
    >burning two or three audio WAV files without any text or
    >CDDB stuff? That would probably save me (and maybe others)
    >some time and some coasters. Or, is there a good tutorial
    >on writing TOC files?



    ------------------------------------------------

    CD_DA


    // Track 1
    TRACK AUDIO
    NO COPY
    NO PRE_EMPHASIS
    TWO_CHANNEL_AUDIO
    FILE "pluck3.wav" 0
    SILENCE 320


    // Track 2
    TRACK AUDIO
    NO COPY
    NO PRE_EMPHASIS
    TWO_CHANNEL_AUDIO
    FILE "p1.wav" 0
    SILENCE 320

    ***********************************************

    You can use gcdmaster to do editing of the tracks ( eg erase some, insert
    something from another file, ...) and write the disk.
    I have never written an iso file with cdrdao



  3. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (Joerg Schilling) writes:

    .....

    >People need to understand that the wodim "project" is just a big attempt
    >to confuse people about OpenSource Software.


    >it is not only "wodim", bug also "genisoimage", the latter is a frozen fork
    >from an extremely outdated version of mkisofs and for this reason it is full
    >of unfixed bugs.


    >Please keep in mind:


    >- In late 2005, the cdrtools project has been massively attacked
    > by a few OSS enemies that call themselves "Debian mailtainers".
    > The attack was because cdrtools was under GPL (just in case you
    > don't know),


    This makes no sense. Why would they attack cdrecord because it was under
    GPL? Or do you mean that GPL allowed them to change cdrecord?

    The only thing that I know is that for a long time, cdrecord did not
    support dvd writing, and many forks of cdrecord were made in order to
    allow it to write dvds. As you say, cdrecord now does support dvd writing.

    >- As a result, the license from cdrtools was changed to a more
    > liberal license in May 2006. At the same time, a lot of software
    > that has been closed source before has been added to the cdrtools
    > OSS project (e.g. the DVD support code in cdrecord that was covered
    > under a NDA before).


    It is not clear to me what you mean by a more liberal license. If this
    license stopped people from doing something they could do when it was under
    the GPL, then it does not sound more liberal to me.


    >- Several months later (in September 2006), the OSS offenders from Debian
    > started a fork from old (2005) cdrtools code. They claimed this was a
    > reaction on the license change, but the license change was a reaction on
    > the attacks from these people.....


    > Note that they did _not_ change their "arguements" since 2005 when
    > cdrtools was GPL even though the license did change. Please carefully
    > read their texts from late 2006 that still claim that the cdrecord
    > sub-project was under GPL although the license did change in May 2006.


    >- The _only_ "development"-activity in the fork was to replace a working
    > build system by a new self-made and defective one.


    >- Altough the GPL requires to _include_ the build system in the source
    > in case you publish binaries and although Debian publishes binaries,
    > the Debian fork does not include the whole build system!


    > They replaced the "schily makefilesystem" by "cmake" plus some scripts.
    > They included the scripts but they omited "cmake". For this reason,
    > the source from the fork cannot be compiled on a typical Linx system.....


    cmake has been included in mandriva since at least 2006 and maybe earlier
    and I suspect other distros. Ie, if cmake is a public file, then you do not
    need to include it in the source for say wodim, any more than you have to
    include gcc in the source for wodim.


    >- Later they added some new bugs to the source...., e.g. the one that
    > causes the error messages in:
    > http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32692


    >- On May 6th 2007, _all_ activities ended.


    >- In a few days, the period of speudo-activities will be even shorter than
    > the period of absolute stagnation in the fork.


    I have no idea why mandriva suddenly went to wodim. I agree it was probably
    a bad move.



  4. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:19:14 +0000, Joerg Schilling wrote:

    > - cdrecord added BluRay support.
    >
    > Do you really like to waste your time with an umnaintained fork that is
    > full of bugs while the original software rapidely evolves?


    Hmmm... I hadn't been following this, but out of curiosity I started
    looking at my 2008 install to find out that wodim has hijacked all calls
    to cdrecord. man cdrecord gets you wodim man page. cdrecord form CL gets
    you wodim via a symlink, etc., etc. Checking available software doesn't
    even list cdrtools or cdrecord any longer. First let me say I find this
    appauling. Next let me ask, assuming you are really the cdrecord author,
    are your tools available, and do they do have the same or more functions
    as wodim. IOW's, if I rip the cdrkit and it's files out and replace them
    with yours, what do I gain?

    I still can't get over the fact that they basically took your code,
    changed the name to wodim, and then hijacked the calls to cdrecord via a
    symlink.

    So what about this Sandman? Why should I consider anything good about
    wodim after you've basically hijacked all his work and access to it?
    I can understand another fork, but why hijack the name cdrecord with a
    symlink to wodim?

    --
    Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
    My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
    Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
    AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

  5. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    In article ,
    Unruh wrote:

    >>> You could try cdrecord, rather than wodim.

    >
    >>Sounds good. How would I do that? I have cdrecord installed but
    >>drakbackup doesn't provide this option, and K3B won't even launch.

    >
    >How did you install cdrecord? It is not on the 2008 disks. You can get it
    >from 2007.0


    From my information, mandriva did never distribute a recent cdreccord.
    Recent means a version that includes a workaround for the incompatible
    interface changes in the 2.6 Linux kernel.

    You need to compile a recent cdrtools from

    ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

    and install cdrecord/readcd/cdda2wav suid root.

    --
    EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
    schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
    URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

  6. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:46:57 +0000, Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:

    > Mr. Schilling, you may have some good points. However, you have lost a
    > lot of credibility with me by your earlier claims that cdrecord must be
    > run as root and the unpleasant attitude I see in your postings. My
    > four-year-old system using Mandriva 2007's cdrecord burns CDs just fine
    > as non-root, despite the whining warnings the program prints. (I verify
    > every CD I burn and have very few failures.) Perhaps to a lesser extent,
    > the large number of obvious typos or spelling errors in your postings
    > don't boost your credibility in my eyes.


    So, you expect all Germans to have perfect english writing skills? Forgive
    me if I'm wrong, but afaik, German is his first language, not english. And
    how's your german writing skills might I ask? Attacking someones second
    language writing skills is just too much. As for running cdrecord as root,
    I recall having to set up front ends as root before they would work, but
    that was years ago.

    --
    Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
    My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
    Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
    AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

  7. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    In article ,
    Unruh wrote:
    >js@cs.tu-berlin.de (Joerg Schilling) writes:


    >>Please keep in mind:

    >
    >>- In late 2005, the cdrtools project has been massively attacked
    >> by a few OSS enemies that call themselves "Debian mailtainers".
    >> The attack was because cdrtools was under GPL (just in case you
    >> don't know),

    >
    >This makes no sense. Why would they attack cdrecord because it was under
    >GPL? Or do you mean that GPL allowed them to change cdrecord?


    These people made a lot of things that make no sense. They did attack
    cdrtools - I can't say for sure why they did this. I may only guess that they
    don't like to cooperate.


    >The only thing that I know is that for a long time, cdrecord did not
    >support dvd writing, and many forks of cdrecord were made in order to
    >allow it to write dvds. As you say, cdrecord now does support dvd writing.


    This is not true: cdrecord in fact is the third application that supports
    DVD writing. The DVD support in cdrecord was added in February 1998, long before
    other programs started to support DVD writing. In other words: cdrecord supports
    DVD writing since the times when you had to ask the Pioneer managers for the
    permission to buy a DVD writer and when the information on how to implement this
    was only available under NDA.

    There was a badly reverse engineered DVD variant from a person from mandriva.
    This did never support even the basic features that have been in cdrecord since
    February 1998. As the wodim "creators" replaced the original DVD support code
    from cdrecord by this half baken code, wodim does not really support to write
    DVDs.

    >>- As a result, the license from cdrtools was changed to a more
    >> liberal license in May 2006. At the same time, a lot of software
    >> that has been closed source before has been added to the cdrtools
    >> OSS project (e.g. the DVD support code in cdrecord that was covered
    >> under a NDA before).

    >
    >It is not clear to me what you mean by a more liberal license. If this
    >license stopped people from doing something they could do when it was under
    >the GPL, then it does not sound more liberal to me.


    What is your problem? I thought the word "liberal" should be easy to understand.


    >>- Altough the GPL requires to _include_ the build system in the source
    >> in case you publish binaries and although Debian publishes binaries,
    >> the Debian fork does not include the whole build system!

    >
    >> They replaced the "schily makefilesystem" by "cmake" plus some scripts.
    >> They included the scripts but they omited "cmake". For this reason,
    >> the source from the fork cannot be compiled on a typical Linx system.....

    >
    >cmake has been included in mandriva since at least 2006 and maybe earlier
    >and I suspect other distros. Ie, if cmake is a public file, then you do not
    >need to include it in the source for say wodim, any more than you have to
    >include gcc in the source for wodim.


    I was talking about Debian. From my information, a standard Debian system does
    not include cmake. Debian started the fork and Debian seems to ignore the GPL
    requirements when they publish wodim binaries.



    >>- On May 6th 2007, _all_ activities ended.

    >
    >>- In a few days, the period of speudo-activities will be even shorter than
    >> the period of absolute stagnation in the fork.

    >
    >I have no idea why mandriva suddenly went to wodim. I agree it was probably
    >a bad move.


    It was a move from well maintained original software to an unmaintained fork
    made from a very old version.....

    --
    EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
    schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
    URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

  8. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (Joerg Schilling) writes:

    >In article ,
    >Unruh wrote:


    >>>For command line burning, see above. For making drakbackup work, I
    >>>modified the source code, and submitted a bug report to Mandriva.
    >>>Add your vote for it to be fixed.
    >>>http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32692

    >>
    >>Or perhaps that they reinstall cdrecord, rather than wodim as the cd


    >Reinstalling the old cdrecord would just remove the bugs that have been
    >introduced by the fork. If you like to get workarounds for the incompatible
    >interface changes introduced with Linux-2.6, you need a _recent_ cdrtools!


    >>burning software. Note that you can also use cdrdao, which for SAO I find
    >>better and more reliable than either wodim or cdrecord. But it is not as
    >>flexible. And demands that you write at least a shell toc file first.


    >Cdrdao has not been under development sice ~ 3 years. cdrdao still uses
    >the old libscg code that does not work around the Linux-2.6 interface changes.


    >Cdrdao is not better or more reliable than cdrecord. Every time I tried to use
    >cdrdao, it failed.


    I found the opposite. I got failures with cdrecord, when cdrdao worked. It
    is more clunky than is cdrecord/mkisofs.

    >The orignal author of cdrdao did a much better job when he took some
    >engineering results from Heiko Eißfeldt, Brian Chaffee and me and created an
    >own program instead of helping with SAO support in cdrecord (as he did
    >promise). He did stop to evolve his program however a long time ago. This is
    >why k3b now prefers to use cdrecord before cdrdao (it used to write Audio CDs
    >with cdrdao before....).



    >>wodim is a port of an old version of cdrecord, when some of the people at
    >>debian got annoyed with Schilling's attitude and license. It is a little


    >You are a victim of the bad propaganda from some OSS enemies that call
    >themselves "Debian maintainers". The license change was a _reaction_ on massive
    >attacks against the cdrtools project done be these people.....



    >>like the Reformation where churches split off from each other over what we
    >>now consider triffles, but the people involved considered things worthy of
    >>heaven or hell.


    >Some months after some Debian people started to attack the cdrtools project,
    >the license has been "reformed" to become more liberal and in hope to avoid
    >the attacks. The people who attacked cdrtools (mainly Mr. Bloch) ignored
    >the change and continied to spit the same claims as before the license change.


    >Ask your Linux provider why he does not follow the reformation but follows
    >the people who do not work for OSS but try to harm OSS. Ask why your linux
    >still suffers from problems that have been fixed years ago.



    >>Mandriva 2007.0 has cdrecord 2.01.01 (which I think is still the latest)
    >> Best is probably to get


    >This is an _extremely_ outdated source that does not work around the Linux2.6
    >incompatibilities....


    >Better get the latest source!


    cdrtools 2.01 is the latest source code on berlios. Why is the mandriva
    souce "old"?
    And if I look into the files in cdrtools 2.01 from berlios, the most recent
    files are from Sep 2004.

    There is a beta directory, where the most recent is 2.01.01a36. Is that
    what you are talking about? I must say that you do not make finding the
    latest version very easy!

    And why in the world would you keep labeling your release as 2.01.01 when
    such massive changes have been made? Please make it easier for people to
    find the right source to install.

    And if you really want people to use the latest, do not have an
    _extremely_ old source as the latest on your download site.
    Note that you list that old version (Sept 2004) as the latest stable version
    on the freshmeat site.



  9. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    On 2007-12-28, Joerg Schilling wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:
    >
    >>> So you like to change from software that has not been evolved since 2+ years
    >>> like wodim to software that not been evolved since 3+ years (cdrdao)?

    >>
    >>When feasible, I like using software packages made by and
    >>for my specific distribution (Mandriva). Using a non-distro
    >>package is a lot of work for me that I would like to avoid.
    >>Your points against wodim have steered me away from wodim.

    >
    > If mandriva does not give you the freedom to choose a working
    > CD recording program, you should send a bug report to Mandriva and if this does
    > not help, you should move to a better Linux distribution.


    If I find no better solution than to try wodim, and if wodim
    doesn't work, then filing a bug report would be reasonable.
    Voting for a switch back to cdrecord might be reasonable,
    but I can't afford the time to do it.

    Changing distro because of a single package is unreasonable.
    There aren't >> 2^100 distributions out there to choose
    from. (... assumes 7% of packages may have an issue.)

    >>Also, I like the idea of omitting the 2-second silent
    >>pre-gap for audio CDs.

    >
    > This is something that cdrecord allows you to do since 10 years.


    Now, that is valuable information. On Mandriva 2007, "man
    cdrecord" shows a defpregap=# option, but the man page says
    the option "currently only makes sense with the TEAC
    drive" and "may go away in future." Would you please be so
    kind as to describe how one burns an audio CD without the
    2-second silent gap between tracks? Thank you.

    >>Mr. Schilling, you may have some good points. However, you
    >>have lost a lot of credibility with me by your earlier
    >>claims that cdrecord must be run as root and the unpleasant

    >
    > If you still believe that cdrecord runs as non-root, you trust the wrong people.
    > In that case, I cannot help you.


    I don't trust other people; I trust personal experience. I
    trust the many CDs I have burned and verified using a
    non-root account. I trust "ls /usr/bin/cdrecord" showing no
    suid bit.

    > It is a pitty that you believe people like Mr. Bloch who is missing the need
    > basic knowledge on SCSI and Linux. The Linux kernel filters away important
    > SCSI commands if you are not root. Cdrecord adopts it's behavior to limited
    > environments but this results in less features and lower quality. Some use cases
    > will not work at all if cdrecord is not run with root privileges.


    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there may be
    some cases where non-root cdrecord will not work. I have
    yet to see such a case.

    --
    Robert Riches
    spamtrap42@verizon.net
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

  10. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    On 2007-12-28, Unruh wrote:
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------
    >
    > CD_DA
    >
    >
    > // Track 1
    > TRACK AUDIO
    > NO COPY
    > NO PRE_EMPHASIS
    > TWO_CHANNEL_AUDIO
    > FILE "pluck3.wav" 0
    > SILENCE 320
    >
    >
    > // Track 2
    > TRACK AUDIO
    > NO COPY
    > NO PRE_EMPHASIS
    > TWO_CHANNEL_AUDIO
    > FILE "p1.wav" 0
    > SILENCE 320
    >
    > ***********************************************
    >
    > You can use gcdmaster to do editing of the tracks ( eg erase some, insert
    > something from another file, ...) and write the disk.
    > I have never written an iso file with cdrdao


    Thank you very much for that example.

    --
    Robert Riches
    spamtrap42@verizon.net
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

  11. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    In article ,
    Wes Newell wrote:
    >On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:19:14 +0000, Joerg Schilling wrote:
    >
    >> - cdrecord added BluRay support.
    >>
    >> Do you really like to waste your time with an umnaintained fork that is
    >> full of bugs while the original software rapidely evolves?

    >
    >Hmmm... I hadn't been following this, but out of curiosity I started
    >looking at my 2008 install to find out that wodim has hijacked all calls
    >to cdrecord. man cdrecord gets you wodim man page. cdrecord form CL gets
    >you wodim via a symlink, etc., etc. Checking available software doesn't
    >even list cdrtools or cdrecord any longer. First let me say I find this
    >appauling. Next let me ask, assuming you are really the cdrecord author,
    >are your tools available, and do they do have the same or more functions
    >as wodim. IOW's, if I rip the cdrkit and it's files out and replace them
    >with yours, what do I gain?


    In short: all known bugs disappear.

    You get DVD support, you get the ability to write most CDR-WIN CUE shee files
    even in RAW mode (this is what you cannot get from cdrdao either).

    You get a mkisofs that implements decent UDF support with
    permissions/user/groupid and with support for files > 4 GB.
    You get a mkisofs that fixed several dozens nasty bugs. You get a mkisofs
    that gives you a build in find(1) implementation....

    You get a readcd that may allow to correct more read errors than your drive's
    firmware.

    For the whole list, just read the announcement files from the 35 version
    of cdrtools that have been published since the "wodim fork" did take my code.

    ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

    >I still can't get over the fact that they basically took your code,
    >changed the name to wodim, and then hijacked the calls to cdrecord via a
    >symlink.


    I cannot speak for mandriva but on Debian they did even change the string
    cdrecord to wodim in all users of cdrecord. You cannot simply add cdrecord
    again on Debian, you need to create a symlink from wodim pointing to the real
    cdrecord and the same for all other programs from cdrtools.

    --
    EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
    schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
    URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

  12. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    In article ,
    Unruh wrote:

    >>Cdrdao has not been under development sice ~ 3 years. cdrdao still uses
    >>the old libscg code that does not work around the Linux-2.6 interface changes.

    >
    >>Cdrdao is not better or more reliable than cdrecord. Every time I tried to use
    >>cdrdao, it failed.

    >
    >I found the opposite. I got failures with cdrecord, when cdrdao worked. It
    >is more clunky than is cdrecord/mkisofs.


    Could you give an example?

    I found cdrdao hard to use (even more: hard to compile as it was based on
    the existence of specific Linux several years ago. These bugs were missing on
    Solaris) and I found that it could never help me where cdrecord missed a feature
    that was announced as "present" in cdrdao.

    >>>Mandriva 2007.0 has cdrecord 2.01.01 (which I think is still the latest)
    >>> Best is probably to get

    >
    >>This is an _extremely_ outdated source that does not work around the Linux2.6
    >>incompatibilities....

    >
    >>Better get the latest source!

    >
    >cdrtools 2.01 is the latest source code on berlios. Why is the mandriva
    >souce "old"?
    >And if I look into the files in cdrtools 2.01 from berlios, the most recent
    >files are from Sep 2004.


    The latest source currently is in the "schily" source consolidation at:

    ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

    I was in hope to complete BluRay support before christmas but today, the latest
    version is in the latest stable "schily" snapshot. There will be a new separate
    source in a few days. The latest separate release is 2.01.01a36.
    It is easy to find from the web pages. The web pages direct you to the latest
    version....

    >And why in the world would you keep labeling your release as 2.01.01 when
    >such massive changes have been made? Please make it easier for people to
    >find the right source to install.


    The right source is easy to find and the next "stable" version that will include
    completed BluRay support will use a different version number....

    >And if you really want people to use the latest, do not have an
    >_extremely_ old source as the latest on your download site.
    >Note that you list that old version (Sept 2004) as the latest stable version
    > on the freshmeat site.


    My web pages recommend to use _recent_ sources instead.

    --
    EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
    schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
    URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

  13. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    In article ,
    Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:

    >> If mandriva does not give you the freedom to choose a working
    >> CD recording program, you should send a bug report to Mandriva and if this does
    >> not help, you should move to a better Linux distribution.

    >
    >If I find no better solution than to try wodim, and if wodim
    >doesn't work, then filing a bug report would be reasonable.
    >Voting for a switch back to cdrecord might be reasonable,
    >but I can't afford the time to do it.


    It makes no sense to report a bug against wodim. Wodim is dead,
    there are more than 30 logged bugs that (although most of them
    are easy to fix) have not been fixed since more than a year.
    Do not expect this to change...


    >>>Also, I like the idea of omitting the 2-second silent
    >>>pre-gap for audio CDs.

    >>
    >> This is something that cdrecord allows you to do since 10 years.

    >
    >Now, that is valuable information. On Mandriva 2007, "man
    >cdrecord" shows a defpregap=# option, but the man page says
    >the option "currently only makes sense with the TEAC
    >drive" and "may go away in future." Would you please be so
    >kind as to describe how one burns an audio CD without the
    >2-second silent gap between tracks? Thank you.


    defpregap is not the right way to go...
    Why don't you read the cdrecord ore cdda2wav man pages and
    follow the EXAMPLES section that explains how to crete a 100%
    identical copies from an Audio CD?

    If you like to do more than just copying, use a frontend or learn
    how to create a *.inf or *.CUE file.


    >> If you still believe that cdrecord runs as non-root, you trust the wrong people.
    >> In that case, I cannot help you.

    >
    >I don't trust other people; I trust personal experience. I
    >trust the many CDs I have burned and verified using a
    >non-root account. I trust "ls /usr/bin/cdrecord" showing no
    >suid bit.


    I don't trust people who recommend to cross the street on the red light
    just because a single check did not end in an accident.

    >> It is a pitty that you believe people like Mr. Bloch who is missing the need
    >> basic knowledge on SCSI and Linux. The Linux kernel filters away important
    >> SCSI commands if you are not root. Cdrecord adopts it's behavior to limited
    >> environments but this results in less features and lower quality. Some use cases
    >> will not work at all if cdrecord is not run with root privileges.

    >
    >I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there may be
    >some cases where non-root cdrecord will not work. I have
    >yet to see such a case.


    If you only do _very_ simple things it may work, but this is not
    somethoung you can rely a recommendation on.

    --
    EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
    schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
    URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

  14. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:13:18 +0000, Wes Newell wrote:

    > So what about this Sandman? Why should I consider anything good about
    > wodim after you've basically hijacked all his work and access to it?
    > I can understand another fork, but why hijack the name cdrecord with a
    > symlink to wodim?


    ????????? I know nothing about any of this other than what I've read
    in this thread. Mr Schilling said that the fork started at Debian, so I
    suggest that you do a web search thataway for the reasons.

  15. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    On 2007-12-28, Joerg Schilling wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:
    >
    >>> If mandriva does not give you the freedom to choose a working
    >>> CD recording program, you should send a bug report to Mandriva and if this does
    >>> not help, you should move to a better Linux distribution.

    >>
    >>If I find no better solution than to try wodim, and if wodim
    >>doesn't work, then filing a bug report would be reasonable.
    >>Voting for a switch back to cdrecord might be reasonable,
    >>but I can't afford the time to do it.

    >
    > It makes no sense to report a bug against wodim. Wodim is dead,
    > there are more than 30 logged bugs that (although most of them
    > are easy to fix) have not been fixed since more than a year.
    > Do not expect this to change...


    I should file a bug report. Then, I should not file a bug
    report. Confusing.

    >>>>Also, I like the idea of omitting the 2-second silent
    >>>>pre-gap for audio CDs.
    >>>
    >>> This is something that cdrecord allows you to do since 10 years.

    >>
    >>Now, that is valuable information. On Mandriva 2007, "man
    >>cdrecord" shows a defpregap=# option, but the man page says
    >>the option "currently only makes sense with the TEAC
    >>drive" and "may go away in future." Would you please be so
    >>kind as to describe how one burns an audio CD without the
    >>2-second silent gap between tracks? Thank you.

    >
    > defpregap is not the right way to go...
    > Why don't you read the cdrecord ore cdda2wav man pages and
    > follow the EXAMPLES section that explains how to crete a 100%
    > identical copies from an Audio CD?


    The audio CDs I write are almost exclusively from digitized
    vinyl or open-reel tape. The examples to make exact copies
    of an audio CD do not appear to be relevant. Is the -dao
    option the one you would recommend for removing the two
    seconds of silence between/before tracks?

    > If you like to do more than just copying, use a frontend or learn
    > how to create a *.inf or *.CUE file.


    Doing "cdrecord -v -eject -pad speed=24 *.wav" has worked
    but makes two seconds of silence. Are you saying there
    isn't a simple option to eliminate the two seconds of
    silence?

    >>> If you still believe that cdrecord runs as non-root, you trust the wrong people.
    >>> In that case, I cannot help you.

    >>
    >>I don't trust other people; I trust personal experience. I
    >>trust the many CDs I have burned and verified using a
    >>non-root account. I trust "ls /usr/bin/cdrecord" showing no
    >>suid bit.

    >
    > I don't trust people who recommend to cross the street on the red light
    > just because a single check did not end in an accident.


    I have successfully burned a whole lot more than one CD
    without being root. The analogy is also several orders of
    magnitude off in terms of cost of failure. A coaster only
    costs US$0.20.

    >>> It is a pitty that you believe people like Mr. Bloch who is missing the need
    >>> basic knowledge on SCSI and Linux. The Linux kernel filters away important
    >>> SCSI commands if you are not root. Cdrecord adopts it's behavior to limited
    >>> environments but this results in less features and lower quality. Some use cases
    >>> will not work at all if cdrecord is not run with root privileges.

    >>
    >>I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there may be
    >>some cases where non-root cdrecord will not work. I have
    >>yet to see such a case.

    >
    > If you only do _very_ simple things it may work, but this is not
    > somethoung you can rely a recommendation on.


    If I ever encounter something that does not work as
    non-root, then I'll make note of it.

    --
    Robert Riches
    spamtrap42@verizon.net
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

  16. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    In article ,
    Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:

    >> It makes no sense to report a bug against wodim. Wodim is dead,
    >> there are more than 30 logged bugs that (although most of them
    >> are easy to fix) have not been fixed since more than a year.
    >> Do not expect this to change...

    >
    >I should file a bug report. Then, I should not file a bug
    >report. Confusing.


    Make a bug report forthe fact that mandriva comes with wodim.

    >> defpregap is not the right way to go...
    >> Why don't you read the cdrecord ore cdda2wav man pages and
    >> follow the EXAMPLES section that explains how to crete a 100%
    >> identical copies from an Audio CD?

    >
    >The audio CDs I write are almost exclusively from digitized
    >vinyl or open-reel tape. The examples to make exact copies
    >of an audio CD do not appear to be relevant. Is the -dao
    >option the one you would recommend for removing the two
    >seconds of silence between/before tracks?


    -dao is the default in cdrecord sice 14 months.

    -tao has been marked as bad choice since many years now.
    The changed default has been announced since ~ y 2000.
    I know nobody who seriously writes audio CDs in tao mode.

    >> If you like to do more than just copying, use a frontend or learn
    >> how to create a *.inf or *.CUE file.

    >
    >Doing "cdrecord -v -eject -pad speed=24 *.wav" has worked
    >but makes two seconds of silence. Are you saying there
    >isn't a simple option to eliminate the two seconds of
    >silence?


    Nobody in your situation would write in TAO mode....
    Cdrecord does not create two seconds of silence in SAO mode.
    If you observe silence, then this is inside your files.

    >>>I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there may be
    >>>some cases where non-root cdrecord will not work. I have
    >>>yet to see such a case.

    >>
    >> If you only do _very_ simple things it may work, but this is not
    >> somethoung you can rely a recommendation on.

    >
    >If I ever encounter something that does not work as
    >non-root, then I'll make note of it.


    The network is full of such reports.
    Just don't close your eyes.

    --
    EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
    schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
    URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

  17. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    On 2007-12-28, Joerg Schilling wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:
    >
    >...
    >>
    >>The audio CDs I write are almost exclusively from digitized
    >>vinyl or open-reel tape. The examples to make exact copies
    >>of an audio CD do not appear to be relevant. Is the -dao
    >>option the one you would recommend for removing the two
    >>seconds of silence between/before tracks?

    >
    > -dao is the default in cdrecord sice 14 months.
    >
    > -tao has been marked as bad choice since many years now.
    > The changed default has been announced since ~ y 2000.
    > I know nobody who seriously writes audio CDs in tao mode.
    >
    >>> If you like to do more than just copying, use a frontend or learn
    >>> how to create a *.inf or *.CUE file.

    >>
    >>Doing "cdrecord -v -eject -pad speed=24 *.wav" has worked
    >>but makes two seconds of silence. Are you saying there
    >>isn't a simple option to eliminate the two seconds of
    >>silence?

    >
    > Nobody in your situation would write in TAO mode....
    > Cdrecord does not create two seconds of silence in SAO mode.
    > If you observe silence, then this is inside your files.


    For the record, my intent is not to argue but to figure out
    how to get rid of the two seconds of silence, which I
    understand to be the pre-gap.

    First, it appears -dao is not the default for Mandriva
    2007.0's cdrecord-2.01.01-0.a11.2.2mdv2007.0. The command

    cdrecord -v -eject -pad speed=24 z1.wav

    (where z1.wav is 8.42 seconds of random noise)

    produces output:

    cdrecord: No write mode specified.
    cdrecord: Asuming -tao mode.
    cdrecord: Future versions of cdrecord may have different drive dependent defaults.
    cdrecord: Continuing in 5 seconds...
    Cdrecord-ProDVD-Clone 2.01.01a11 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2006 Jörg Schilling
    TOC Type: 0 = CD-DA
    ...

    More importantly, the two seconds of silence I hear on my
    CDs were _N_O_T_ in my files. I have played the files
    themselves with a variety of player programs, and there's no
    silence in the files. However, there is silence when the
    burned CD is played.

    Should I be using -dao?

    Thanks.

    --
    Robert Riches
    spamtrap42@verizon.net
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

  18. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    In article ,
    Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:

    >For the record, my intent is not to argue but to figure out
    >how to get rid of the two seconds of silence, which I
    >understand to be the pre-gap.
    >
    >First, it appears -dao is not the default for Mandriva
    >2007.0's cdrecord-2.01.01-0.a11.2.2mdv2007.0. The command


    I neither support outdated versions nor bad forks from other people.

    Why don't you use cdrecord?

    --
    EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
    schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
    URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

  19. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    Wes Newell writes:

    >On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:19:14 +0000, Joerg Schilling wrote:


    >> - cdrecord added BluRay support.
    >>
    >> Do you really like to waste your time with an umnaintained fork that is
    >> full of bugs while the original software rapidely evolves?


    >Hmmm... I hadn't been following this, but out of curiosity I started
    >looking at my 2008 install to find out that wodim has hijacked all calls
    >to cdrecord. man cdrecord gets you wodim man page. cdrecord form CL gets
    >you wodim via a symlink, etc., etc. Checking available software doesn't
    >even list cdrtools or cdrecord any longer. First let me say I find this
    >appauling. Next let me ask, assuming you are really the cdrecord author,
    >are your tools available, and do they do have the same or more functions
    >as wodim. IOW's, if I rip the cdrkit and it's files out and replace them
    >with yours, what do I gain?


    IF you use the most recent developement release ( not the stable release)
    you gain added useability and bug fixes.
    http://freshmeat.net/projects/cdrecord/

    We as users are caught in some religious wars here. I happen to believe
    that schilling's cdrecord is better, but schilling has never been the most
    diplomatic of people. That is his right-- he has done a huge amount for
    Linux with his program. But it can lead to argy-bargy.

    You could also set up an rpm spec file for cdrtools, and then install that
    rpm onto your system ( making it a replacement for wodim).



    >I still can't get over the fact that they basically took your code,
    >changed the name to wodim, and then hijacked the calls to cdrecord via a
    >symlink.


    They changed the name to wodim so as not to confuse the public into
    thinking that the code was schilling's and not to have everyone bother
    schilling to fix bugs in stuff that was not his code. (schilling rightfully
    got annoyed when that happened).
    They have links from cdrecord to wodim because that distro does not have a
    recent cdrecord, but many programs only use cdrecord to burn cds.
    Ie, it is a user issue. And wodim IS a clone of cdrecord (perhaps with
    problems).

    >So what about this Sandman? Why should I consider anything good about
    >wodim after you've basically hijacked all his work and access to it?
    >I can understand another fork, but why hijack the name cdrecord with a
    >symlink to wodim?


    As far as I know Sandman is simply a user making comments and is not the
    author of wodim. However as schilling points out, sandman does not list his
    real name or address, so we cannot know for sure.
    One of the things about Open software, is that people can use someone
    else's work and create their own. That is why you get something like Linux
    and all of the distributions.

    Remember that Madrake was originally just a repackaged Redhat. Under GPL
    that was fine.

    One question I have about the CDDa licens is whether or not it allows
    someone to include cdrecord in a distro, and have the distro released under
    GPL. Ie, does a CDDA licensed part of a distro mean tht the whole thing has
    to be released under CDDA?





  20. Re: 2008: Can't burn CDs

    js@cs.tu-berlin.de (Joerg Schilling) writes:

    >In article ,
    >Unruh wrote:
    >>js@cs.tu-berlin.de (Joerg Schilling) writes:


    >>>Please keep in mind:

    >>
    >>>- In late 2005, the cdrtools project has been massively attacked
    >>> by a few OSS enemies that call themselves "Debian mailtainers".
    >>> The attack was because cdrtools was under GPL (just in case you
    >>> don't know),

    >>
    >>This makes no sense. Why would they attack cdrecord because it was under
    >>GPL? Or do you mean that GPL allowed them to change cdrecord?


    >These people made a lot of things that make no sense. They did attack
    >cdrtools - I can't say for sure why they did this. I may only guess that they
    >don't like to cooperate.



    >>The only thing that I know is that for a long time, cdrecord did not
    >>support dvd writing, and many forks of cdrecord were made in order to
    >>allow it to write dvds. As you say, cdrecord now does support dvd writing.


    >This is not true: cdrecord in fact is the third application that supports
    >DVD writing. The DVD support in cdrecord was added in February 1998, long before


    cdrecord supported DVD writing under the ProDVD release which was not a
    free release but had to be bought from you. The Mandrake writers hacked
    the release of cdrecord to add dvd support because a free version was not
    available. This was their right. Whether or not it was a good hack, I do
    not know, but it did allow dvd writing on a number of dvd writers before
    you incorporated dvd writing into the standard cdrecord.

    >other programs started to support DVD writing. In other words: cdrecord supports
    >DVD writing since the times when you had to ask the Pioneer managers for the
    >permission to buy a DVD writer and when the information on how to implement this
    >was only available under NDA.


    >There was a badly reverse engineered DVD variant from a person from mandriva.
    >This did never support even the basic features that have been in cdrecord since
    >February 1998. As the wodim "creators" replaced the original DVD support code
    >from cdrecord by this half baken code, wodim does not really support to write
    >DVDs.


    Because you did not release the dvd support for cdrecord under an open
    license until later.


    >>>- As a result, the license from cdrtools was changed to a more
    >>> liberal license in May 2006. At the same time, a lot of software
    >>> that has been closed source before has been added to the cdrtools
    >>> OSS project (e.g. the DVD support code in cdrecord that was covered
    >>> under a NDA before).

    >>
    >>It is not clear to me what you mean by a more liberal license. If this
    >>license stopped people from doing something they could do when it was under
    >>the GPL, then it does not sound more liberal to me.


    >What is your problem? I thought the word "liberal" should be easy to understand.


    Yes, I would have thought it was easy to understand. I would have thought that it meant it had
    fewer restrictions than the GPL does. But your comments lead me to believe
    it has more, since the wodim authors could make a fork from the GPL version
    but apparently cannot of the CDDA version. That sounds to me like more
    restrictive, less liberal. I might be wrong, but certainly the impression I
    got from the discussions I have seen is that part of the reason for the
    CDDA license was to make what happened with wodim not able to happen to the
    new cdrecord. Am I wrong?



    >>>- Altough the GPL requires to _include_ the build system in the source
    >>> in case you publish binaries and although Debian publishes binaries,
    >>> the Debian fork does not include the whole build system!

    >>
    >>> They replaced the "schily makefilesystem" by "cmake" plus some scripts.
    >>> They included the scripts but they omited "cmake". For this reason,
    >>> the source from the fork cannot be compiled on a typical Linx system.....

    >>
    >>cmake has been included in mandriva since at least 2006 and maybe earlier
    >>and I suspect other distros. Ie, if cmake is a public file, then you do not
    >>need to include it in the source for say wodim, any more than you have to
    >>include gcc in the source for wodim.


    >I was talking about Debian. From my information, a standard Debian system does
    >not include cmake. Debian started the fork and Debian seems to ignore the GPL
    >requirements when they publish wodim binaries.


    Debian has such a huge repository of programs, I am sure that cmake is
    there somewhere. But I admit I have not looked for it.

    >>>- On May 6th 2007, _all_ activities ended.

    >>
    >>>- In a few days, the period of speudo-activities will be even shorter than
    >>> the period of absolute stagnation in the fork.

    >>
    >>I have no idea why mandriva suddenly went to wodim. I agree it was probably
    >>a bad move.


    >It was a move from well maintained original software to an unmaintained fork
    >made from a very old version.....


    A version you still advertise on freshmeat as the latest stable release.
    Everything more recent is "Developement"


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