kernel update 2007.1 - Mandriva

This is a discussion on kernel update 2007.1 - Mandriva ; I just noticed that one of the changes in 2007.1 is that when a kernel update is available, it now appears in the list of packages when I click on 'Look at available updates and apply any fixes or upgrades ...

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Thread: kernel update 2007.1

  1. kernel update 2007.1

    I just noticed that one of the changes in 2007.1 is that when a kernel
    update is available, it now appears in the list of packages when I click
    on 'Look at available updates and apply any fixes or upgrades to installed
    packages' in MCC. That is probably a good move, as it was always a little
    confusing (albeit perfectly logical, technically) that new kernel packages
    were only ever listed from 'Look at installable software and install
    software packages' in previous versions of Mandriva (including 2007.0).

    There is still a gotcha, though; the corresponding 'kernel-source' or
    'kernel-source-stripped' package is still only shown in the 'install'
    lists, not in the 'update' lists. This meant that when I re-booted my
    2007.1 system after the last update, none of the things that needed to be
    re-built against the new kernel were available; little things like the
    MadWiFi module, for example, and presumable nVidia etc drivers too on
    systems where those are in use. That feels to me like an oversight by
    Mandriva - and a prospect for a further modification of the update system?
    I can imagine some less experienced users getting perplexed by the current
    arrangement.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  2. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    Whiskers wrote:

    > I just noticed that one of the changes in 2007.1 is that when a kernel
    > update is available, it now appears in the list of packages when I click
    > on 'Look at available updates and apply any fixes or upgrades to installed
    > packages' in MCC. That is probably a good move, as it was always a little
    > confusing (albeit perfectly logical, technically) that new kernel packages
    > were only ever listed from 'Look at installable software and install
    > software packages' in previous versions of Mandriva (including 2007.0).
    >
    > There is still a gotcha, though; the corresponding 'kernel-source' or
    > 'kernel-source-stripped' package is still only shown in the 'install'
    > lists, not in the 'update' lists.


    From what I gather this behaviour depends on the "kernel-latest" package
    being installed for both the kernel and the kernel source.



    --
    sid
    RLU 300284
    Mandriva 2007.1 X86_64
    2.6.19.5

  3. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    On 2007-05-17, sid wrote:
    > Whiskers wrote:
    >
    >> I just noticed that one of the changes in 2007.1 is that when a kernel
    >> update is available, it now appears in the list of packages when I click
    >> on 'Look at available updates and apply any fixes or upgrades to installed
    >> packages' in MCC. That is probably a good move, as it was always a little
    >> confusing (albeit perfectly logical, technically) that new kernel packages
    >> were only ever listed from 'Look at installable software and install
    >> software packages' in previous versions of Mandriva (including 2007.0).
    >>
    >> There is still a gotcha, though; the corresponding 'kernel-source' or
    >> 'kernel-source-stripped' package is still only shown in the 'install'
    >> lists, not in the 'update' lists.

    >
    > From what I gather this behaviour depends on the "kernel-latest" package
    > being installed for both the kernel and the kernel source.


    'kernel-latest' is a meta-package which installs no files, so I can't see
    what it actually does, and there doesn't seem to be a
    'kernel-source-stripped-latest' at all.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  4. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    Whiskers wrote:

    > 'kernel-latest' is a meta-package which installs no files, so I can't see
    > what it actually does, and there doesn't seem to be a
    > 'kernel-source-stripped-latest' at all.


    If you install the kernel-latest package corresponding to your kernel, then
    when an updated kernel is available, it will appear as an update. The same
    applies to the kernel-source-latest and kernel-source-stripped-latest
    packages, which do exist.

    Jim

  5. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    Whiskers wrote:
    > On 2007-05-17, sid wrote:
    >> Whiskers wrote:
    >>
    >>> I just noticed that one of the changes in 2007.1 is that when a kernel
    >>> update is available, it now appears in the list of packages when I click
    >>> on 'Look at available updates and apply any fixes or upgrades to installed
    >>> packages' in MCC. That is probably a good move, as it was always a little
    >>> confusing (albeit perfectly logical, technically) that new kernel packages
    >>> were only ever listed from 'Look at installable software and install
    >>> software packages' in previous versions of Mandriva (including 2007.0).
    >>>
    >>> There is still a gotcha, though; the corresponding 'kernel-source' or
    >>> 'kernel-source-stripped' package is still only shown in the 'install'
    >>> lists, not in the 'update' lists.

    >> From what I gather this behaviour depends on the "kernel-latest" package
    >> being installed for both the kernel and the kernel source.

    >
    > 'kernel-latest' is a meta-package which installs no files, so I can't see
    > what it actually does, and there doesn't seem to be a
    > 'kernel-source-stripped-latest' at all.
    >

    I updated my 64-bit kernel yesterday, and today when I loaded
    MCC and checked for updates I found both kernel-source-stripped
    and meta packages. I now have installed:

    [jim@jb ~]$ rpm -qa |grep kernel
    kernel-source-stripped-2.6.17.13mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    kernel-2.6.17.14mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv
    kernel-latest-2.6.17-14mdv
    nvidia97xx-kernel-2.6.17-13mdv-9755-1mdk
    kernel-2.6.17.13mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    kernel-source-stripped-2.6.17.14mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    kernel-source-2.6.17.14mdv-1-1mdv2007.1

    Cheers!

    jim b.

  6. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    On 2007-05-18, Jim Beard wrote:
    > Whiskers wrote:
    >> On 2007-05-17, sid wrote:
    >>> Whiskers wrote:


    [...]

    >> 'kernel-latest' is a meta-package which installs no files, so I can't see
    >> what it actually does, and there doesn't seem to be a
    >> 'kernel-source-stripped-latest' at all.
    >>

    > I updated my 64-bit kernel yesterday, and today when I loaded
    > MCC and checked for updates I found both kernel-source-stripped
    > and meta packages. I now have installed:
    >
    > [jim@jb ~]$ rpm -qa |grep kernel
    > kernel-source-stripped-2.6.17.13mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    > kernel-2.6.17.14mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    > kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv
    > kernel-latest-2.6.17-14mdv
    > nvidia97xx-kernel-2.6.17-13mdv-9755-1mdk
    > kernel-2.6.17.13mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    > kernel-source-stripped-2.6.17.14mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    > kernel-source-2.6.17.14mdv-1-1mdv2007.1
    >
    > Cheers!
    >
    > jim b.


    Interesting. My 2007.1 i586 system (not this machine, which is still
    running 2007.0) has no kernel-source-stripped-latest* installed, although
    kernel-source-stripped-2.6.17-13mdv-1-1mdv2007.1 was included in the
    original installation.

    On trying to add kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (and also the
    2.6.17-13 version) from MCC, I get the error message:

    Sorry, the following package cannot be selected

    kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (belongs to the skip list)

    As I know nothing about any "skip list" that just leaves me frustrated and
    confused.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  7. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    Whiskers wrote:
    >
    > On trying to add kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (and also the
    > 2.6.17-13 version) from MCC, I get the error message:
    >
    > Sorry, the following package cannot be selected
    >
    > kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (belongs to the skip list)
    >
    > As I know nothing about any "skip list" that just leaves me frustrated and
    > confused.
    >


    Don't try to hard.

    I wonder what section 5.6 of the release notes say.

  8. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    >
    > Interesting. My 2007.1 i586 system (not this machine, which is still
    > running 2007.0) has no kernel-source-stripped-latest* installed,
    > although kernel-source-stripped-2.6.17-13mdv-1-1mdv2007.1 was included
    > in the original installation.
    >
    > On trying to add kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (and also
    > the 2.6.17-13 version) from MCC, I get the error message:
    >
    > Sorry, the following package cannot be selected
    >
    > kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (belongs to the skip list)
    >
    > As I know nothing about any "skip list" that just leaves me frustrated
    > and confused.


    I'm also running Mandriva 2007.1 Spring. The skip list is the file '/etc/
    urpmi/skip.list'. Mine is:

    # Here you can specify the packages that won't be upgraded automatically
    # for example, to exclude all apache packages :
    # /^apache/

    kernel-latest
    kernel-doc-latest
    kernel-enterprise-latest
    kernel-legacy-latest
    kernel-source-latest
    kernel-source-stripped-latest
    kernel-xen0-latest
    kernel-xenU-latest

    I guess Mandriva still isn't sure about automatic updates for kernels!

    --
    Registered Linux User #: 222896
    Larry W. Hatcher

  9. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    James Kerr wrote:
    > Whiskers wrote:
    >
    >> 'kernel-latest' is a meta-package which installs no files, so I can't see
    >> what it actually does, and there doesn't seem to be a
    >> 'kernel-source-stripped-latest' at all.

    >
    > If you install the kernel-latest package corresponding to your kernel, then
    > when an updated kernel is available, it will appear as an update. The same
    > applies to the kernel-source-latest and kernel-source-stripped-latest
    > packages, which do exist.
    >
    > Jim


    There are some troubles with the news server I use and can't see the
    original message from Whiskers (just read it on Google Groups):

    Whiskers wrote:

    > I just noticed that one of the changes in 2007.1 is that when a kernel
    > update is available, it now appears in the list of packages when I click
    > on 'Look at available updates and apply any fixes or upgrades to installed
    > packages' in MCC. That is probably a good move, as it was always a little
    > confusing (albeit perfectly logical, technically) that new kernel packages
    > were only ever listed from 'Look at installable software and install
    > software packages' in previous versions of Mandriva (including 2007.0).
    >
    > There is still a gotcha, though; the corresponding 'kernel-source' or
    > 'kernel-source-stripped' package is still only shown in the 'install'
    > lists, not in the 'update' lists. This meant that when I re-booted my
    > 2007.1 system after the last update, none of the things that needed to be
    > re-built against the new kernel were available; little things like the
    > MadWiFi module, for example, and presumable nVidia etc drivers too on
    > systems where those are in use. That feels to me like an oversight by
    > Mandriva - and a prospect for a further modification of the update system?
    > I can imagine some less experienced users getting perplexed by the current
    > arrangement.


    Yesterday I upgraded from kernel-2.6.17-13mdv-1-1mdv2007.1.i586 to
    kernel-2.6.17-14mdv-1-1mdv2007.1.i586 on my Mandriva Powerpack 2007.1
    using MCC software management. I installed the kernel and the
    kernel-source at the same time i.e. running kernel-2.6.17-13. After a
    reboot to kernel-2.6.17-14 a newer ndiswrapper module then the Mandriva
    one wouldn't properly compile. After installing it was impossible to
    modprobe the module. The same problems occurred with a third party
    driver for the webcam.

    After reinstalling the kernel-source-2.6.17-14 running the corresponding
    kernel 2.6.17-14 these problems were gone and I'm posting this message
    running kernel-2.6.17-14 using the wireless connection.

    I think this is a bug but you should be happy that the kernel update
    didn't installed the kernel source at the same time

    WillemV

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  10. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    On 2007-05-18, Larry W. Hatcher wrote:
    >>
    >> Interesting. My 2007.1 i586 system (not this machine, which is still
    >> running 2007.0) has no kernel-source-stripped-latest* installed,
    >> although kernel-source-stripped-2.6.17-13mdv-1-1mdv2007.1 was included
    >> in the original installation.
    >>
    >> On trying to add kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (and also
    >> the 2.6.17-13 version) from MCC, I get the error message:
    >>
    >> Sorry, the following package cannot be selected
    >>
    >> kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (belongs to the skip list)
    >>
    >> As I know nothing about any "skip list" that just leaves me frustrated
    >> and confused.

    >
    > I'm also running Mandriva 2007.1 Spring. The skip list is the file '/etc/
    > urpmi/skip.list'. Mine is:
    >
    > # Here you can specify the packages that won't be upgraded automatically
    > # for example, to exclude all apache packages :
    > # /^apache/
    >
    > kernel-latest
    > kernel-doc-latest
    > kernel-enterprise-latest
    > kernel-legacy-latest
    > kernel-source-latest
    > kernel-source-stripped-latest
    > kernel-xen0-latest
    > kernel-xenU-latest
    >
    > I guess Mandriva still isn't sure about automatic updates for kernels!


    I'd go for 'confused' rather than 'not sure'; auto-upating the kernel
    (which seems to be the new arrangement) while not at the same time
    automatically updating the corresponding kernel source where that has
    been installed previously, will mean that some people are going to be
    confronted with a computer that refuses to run either the GUI or the
    internet connection. That doesn't seem clever, to me.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  11. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    On 2007-05-18, foo wrote:
    > Whiskers wrote:
    >>
    >> On trying to add kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (and also the
    >> 2.6.17-13 version) from MCC, I get the error message:
    >>
    >> Sorry, the following package cannot be selected
    >>
    >> kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (belongs to the skip list)
    >>
    >> As I know nothing about any "skip list" that just leaves me frustrated and
    >> confused.
    >>

    >
    > Don't try to hard.
    >
    > I wonder what section 5.6 of the release notes say.


    It doesn't describe what actually happened on my last run of 'update' from
    MCC. The release note

    says

    [...]

    In Mandriva Linux 2007 Spring, special packages named kernel-*-latest
    (e.g.: kernel-latest, kernel-legacy-latest, kernel-enterprise-latest,
    kernel-doc-latest, kernel-source-latest, kernel-source-stripped-latest,
    kernel-xen0-latest, kernel-xenU-latest) are included. These are just
    empty virtual packages. When the installer installs a kernel flavor
    (either the normal one, the legacy or the enterprise one), it also
    installs the corresponding kernel-*-latest package. This ensures that
    when an update is published, urpmi, rpmdrake and MandrivaUpdate now
    see there are kernel updates available.

    By default, these are not pre-selected in MandrivaUpdate or installed
    by urpmi --auto-update like other updates (since they are listed in
    /etc/urpmi/skip.list) as we feel that upgrading the kernel must be a
    conscious action. If you would like kernel updates to always be
    pre-selected in MandrivaUpdate and installed by urpmi --auto-update,
    remove the lines from /etc/urpmi/skip.list.

    But when I ran 'update', the new kernel was automatically included and so
    was the new 'kernel-latest-2.6.17-14mdv.i586' (despite 'kernel-latest'
    having been included by Mandriva in the skip-list file). If the kernel is
    going to be automatically updated without deliberate ation by the user,
    then the corresponding source package should be updated at the same time.
    This is starting to smell like a bug.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  12. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    Whiskers wrote:
    > On 2007-05-18, foo wrote:
    >> Whiskers wrote:
    >>> On trying to add kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (and also the
    >>> 2.6.17-13 version) from MCC, I get the error message:
    >>>
    >>> Sorry, the following package cannot be selected
    >>>
    >>> kernel-source-stripped-latest-2.6.17-14mdv (belongs to the skip list)
    >>>
    >>> As I know nothing about any "skip list" that just leaves me frustrated and
    >>> confused.
    >>>

    >> Don't try to hard.
    >>
    >> I wonder what section 5.6 of the release notes say.

    >
    > It doesn't describe what actually happened on my last run of 'update' from
    > MCC. The release note
    >
    > says
    >
    > [...]
    >
    > In Mandriva Linux 2007 Spring, special packages named kernel-*-latest
    > (e.g.: kernel-latest, kernel-legacy-latest, kernel-enterprise-latest,
    > kernel-doc-latest, kernel-source-latest, kernel-source-stripped-latest,
    > kernel-xen0-latest, kernel-xenU-latest) are included. These are just
    > empty virtual packages. When the installer installs a kernel flavor
    > (either the normal one, the legacy or the enterprise one), it also
    > installs the corresponding kernel-*-latest package. This ensures that
    > when an update is published, urpmi, rpmdrake and MandrivaUpdate now
    > see there are kernel updates available.
    >
    > By default, these are not pre-selected in MandrivaUpdate or installed
    > by urpmi --auto-update like other updates (since they are listed in
    > /etc/urpmi/skip.list) as we feel that upgrading the kernel must be a
    > conscious action. If you would like kernel updates to always be
    > pre-selected in MandrivaUpdate and installed by urpmi --auto-update,
    > remove the lines from /etc/urpmi/skip.list.
    >
    > But when I ran 'update', the new kernel was automatically included and so
    > was the new 'kernel-latest-2.6.17-14mdv.i586' (despite 'kernel-latest'
    > having been included by Mandriva in the skip-list file). If the kernel is
    > going to be automatically updated without deliberate ation by the user,
    > then the corresponding source package should be updated at the same time.
    > This is starting to smell like a bug.
    >


    Doesn't look like a bug to me, it's explained in the release notes.

    To quote your quote, "upgrading the kernel must be a conscious action."


  13. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    On 2007-05-18, foo wrote:
    > Whiskers wrote:
    >> On 2007-05-18, foo wrote:
    >>> Whiskers wrote:


    [...]

    >> But when I ran 'update', the new kernel was automatically included and so
    >> was the new 'kernel-latest-2.6.17-14mdv.i586' (despite 'kernel-latest'
    >> having been included by Mandriva in the skip-list file). If the kernel is
    >> going to be automatically updated without deliberate ation by the user,
    >> then the corresponding source package should be updated at the same time.
    >> This is starting to smell like a bug.

    >
    > Doesn't look like a bug to me, it's explained in the release notes.
    >
    > To quote your quote, "upgrading the kernel must be a conscious action."


    Precisely. When I ran update from MCC the other day, upgrading the kernel
    was *not* a conscious action; the new kernel package, and the
    corresponding kernel-latest package, were both automatically selected and
    installed - by Mandriva, not by me, and despite the entries in the
    Mandriva-generated skip list. Nothing conscious about it. The opposite of
    what the release note says is intended.

    But Mandriva did not auto-select and install the new
    kernel-source-stripped package, so when I re-booted none of the modules
    that needed to be built against the new kernel were working. I was able
    to manually install the kernel-source-stripped package and thus get
    everything working again, but I can't install the
    kernel-source-stripped-latest package without editing the skip-list first.

    So, how did the new kernel and kernel-latest packages get past the
    supposed prevention of automatic updates, but the kernel-source packages
    did not get past at the same time?

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  14. Re: kernel update 2007.1


    I stand by my last reply.


  15. Re: kernel update 2007.1

    On 2007-05-19, foo wrote:
    >
    > I stand by my last reply.


    I'm not arguing about what the release note says; I agree with the
    intention expressed there. The problem is, that intention is not
    reflected by what actually happened.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

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