Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection - Mandriva

This is a discussion on Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection - Mandriva ; Moe Trin wrote: > Is this a 'finally standardizing on some pattern' type of situation? Yeah, back when I lived in Poughkeepsie, the building around the corner from me was changed from 36 Maple St. to 465 Maple St. as ...

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Thread: Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

  1. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > Is this a 'finally standardizing on some pattern' type of situation?


    Yeah, back when I lived in Poughkeepsie, the building around the corner
    from me was changed from 36 Maple St. to 465 Maple St. as part of
    implementing 911. I still remember how impressed I was the first time I
    encountered some organized method for this kind of thing, when I moved
    into Baltimore, with each block numbered in increments of 100.

    > Businesses often get perks - one of which may be keeping a phone number
    > that was theirs traditionally.


    One Po'k company that does billboard advertising still uses the name for
    the exchange (GLobe 2-xxxx) instead of the number (452-xxxx) on their
    unused-but-available billboards. I wasn't sure whether this was
    deliberate or just laziness until they changed the area code, and they
    changed their signs to 845-GL2-xxxx, so it's obviously intentional.

    My first C program took a telephone number and listed all the alphabetic
    equivalents. I've never yet had a number that actually spelled out
    anything memorable.

    > People don't realize how big a deal it was making long distance calls in
    > the past.


    That was before my time. I do remember having to speak to the
    international operator for overseas calls.

    > The original numbering scheme allowed for 190 area codes, each with up
    > to ten million phones (less in practice), so there wouldn't be a lack
    > of numbers in the North American zone, right?


    I'd guess that right now, there's an average of more than one phone
    number per U.S. citizen.

    > Still, they were smart
    > to include the access code - the '1' you dial to access long distance
    > (unless you are calling collect).


    Wasn't that because the Strowger switches had trouble "backtracking"
    after the second digit, which (without any access code) would indicate
    whether it was an exchange or an area code? I may be wrong on this. I
    still love the story about the motivation behind Strowger's invention.

    > That allows for nearly a thousand
    > area codes... except you may notice that x9x hasn't been used. It's
    > reserved to expand to four digit area codes. Whoopie!


    I hadn't noticed that. I do know that the original area codes were
    assigned when dial telephones were the only way -- NYC, being the
    largest (and presumably the recipient of the most LD calls), got the AC
    that was fastest to dial, 212. LA (213) and Chi (312) got the next
    shortest, and so on.

    > Certainly by 1964 when I bought a color box for my mother there were
    > plenty of hours of color broadcast nightly. You're quite right that
    > there were not that many shows worth the extra effort. By that time, I
    > was spending most of the year overseas somewhere, but on the few
    > visits I felt that TV was in the wastelands - wasn't that about the
    > time that Newton Minnow made that comment.


    May 9, 1961 -- I found the entire speech on
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/spee...ewtonminow.htm . Despite
    cable and the vast increase in hours of available programming, I think
    that too much of that speech is still applicable today.

    Adam

  2. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    On Wed, 04 Apr 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    <1318k8q2c85pp62@corp.supernews.com>, Adam wrote:

    >Yeah, back when I lived in Poughkeepsie, the building around the corner
    >from me was changed from 36 Maple St. to 465 Maple St. as part of
    >implementing 911. I still remember how impressed I was the first time I
    >encountered some organized method for this kind of thing, when I moved
    >into Baltimore, with each block numbered in increments of 100.


    Look up the numbering scheme used in Japan - it's not geographic, but
    based on the date the building was completed.

    >One Po'k company that does billboard advertising still uses the name for
    >the exchange (GLobe 2-xxxx) instead of the number (452-xxxx) on their
    >unused-but-available billboards. I wasn't sure whether this was
    >deliberate or just laziness until they changed the area code, and they
    >changed their signs to 845-GL2-xxxx, so it's obviously intentional.


    The song you are thinking of is "Let's All Call Up A.T.&T., And Protest
    To The President March" by Allan Sherman, Warner Bros W1487, apparently
    recorded November 30, 1962. Might have been his second album.

    >My first C program took a telephone number and listed all the alphabetic
    >equivalents. I've never yet had a number that actually spelled out
    >anything memorable.


    Exchange numbers, such as your GLobe-2, GRamarcy-5, MUrry-hill-6 and so
    on were relatively standardized, and pre-dated dialing by a substantial
    amount of time. They were literally the name of a local district. I
    imagine few people would even pick up the significance of "PEnnsylvania
    Six Five Thousand", much less the much later "BUtterfield 8" or the
    non-existent KLondike 5 exchange. The practice of converting a phone
    number into something that may grab a potential customer's attention is
    a different development, although I remember the "Yellow Cab" taxi
    companies trying to get the string "Yellow 1" or similar when ever
    possible. I'm sure there were others.

    >I'd guess that right now, there's an average of more than one phone
    >number per U.S. citizen.


    Easily

    >Wasn't that because the Strowger switches had trouble "backtracking"
    >after the second digit, which (without any access code) would indicate
    >whether it was an exchange or an area code?


    I think it's before that - no phone number or area code began with a 1,
    and only the '0' for operator - which you'd have to talk to when making
    a person-to-person or collect call anyway.

    >I do know that the original area codes were assigned when dial telephones
    >were the only way -- NYC, being the largest (and presumably the recipient
    >of the most LD calls), got the AC that was fastest to dial, 212. LA (213)
    >and Chi (312) got the next shortest, and so on.


    I hadn't thought of that - I'd be very surprised if they were being that
    considerate of the customer. I think they might have been thinking about
    wear and tear - the longer pulse train meant more steps on the switches
    and even if they were built to take a direct hit by a 30 ton tank, they
    still wore out eventually.

    >Despite cable and the vast increase in hours of available programming,
    >I think that too much of that speech is still applicable today.


    Because of cable and the vast increase in hours of available programming.
    There's only so much talent out there, as evidenced by what you see as
    stars of current shows, and what passes for plots and show concepts.

    Old guy


  3. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > Exchange numbers, such as your GLobe-2, GRamarcy-5, MUrry-hill-6 and so
    > on were relatively standardized, and pre-dated dialing by a substantial
    > amount of time. They were literally the name of a local district. I
    > imagine few people would even pick up the significance of "PEnnsylvania
    > Six Five Thousand", much less the much later "BUtterfield 8" or the
    > non-existent KLondike 5 exchange.


    Maybe I had geeky pseudo-relatives in the 1970s, but my outrageously
    hot "step-aunt" knew her phone number exchange (EMerson) and
    explained to me why her phone number (after the area code) started
    with "36."

  4. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection


    Adam wrote:
    >> I do know that the original area codes were assigned when dial telephones
    >> were the only way -- NYC, being the largest (and presumably the recipient
    >> of the most LD calls), got the AC that was fastest to dial, 212. LA (213)
    >> and Chi (312) got the next shortest, and so on.


    I have seen this explanation back in the 1960s. It seems it was
    official AT&T policy.

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > I hadn't thought of that - I'd be very surprised if they were being that
    > considerate of the customer. I think they might have been thinking about
    > wear and tear - the longer pulse train meant more steps on the switches
    > and even if they were built to take a direct hit by a 30 ton tank, they
    > still wore out eventually.


    Not really. In the mid-1970s, AT&T replaced existing switches
    in San Francisco with the electronic ESS-5. Electronic, mind
    you, not digital. They had a building near the financial
    district, three stories high, that was filled with old switches,
    some installed in 1925 and still in operation.

    The new equipment filled one-quarter of one floor, leaving the
    other 90%+ of the building for other purposes. And the saving
    on reduced electricity bills paid for the new switches in less
    than 18 months.

    Cheers!

    jim beard

    --
    Unix is not user-unfriendly; it merely
    expects users to be computer-friendly.

  5. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    Scott B. wrote:
    > Maybe I had geeky pseudo-relatives in the 1970s, but my outrageously
    > hot "step-aunt" knew her phone number exchange (EMerson) and
    > explained to me why her phone number (after the area code) started
    > with "36."


    I only knew that the local 452 exchange was called GLobe because an
    older customer told me when I worked at Radio Shack in the early '80s.
    I still remember TV ads from the 1960s (and later?) saying "Call MUrray
    Hill 5-whatever" to order whatever was being hawked.

    Adam

  6. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    James D. Beard wrote:
    > Not really. In the mid-1970s, AT&T replaced existing switches
    > in San Francisco with the electronic ESS-5. Electronic, mind you, not
    > digital.


    If I remember correctly, my cousin lived in SF in the 1980s. When he
    wanted to add some features to his POTS, he had to get a new exchange.
    He told me that his old exchange was using wiring/equipment that
    survived the earthquake/fire of 1906, and to get the new features he had
    to be connected to an exchange with more modern equipment. I can't
    vouch for this story as being 100% accurate.

    Adam

  7. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > Look up the numbering scheme used in Japan - it's not geographic, but
    > based on the date the building was completed.


    I've heard about that. I also heard that in Japan they name the
    intersections, not the streets, or at least did so until the American
    occupation after WW II. How does anybody ever find anything there?

    > The song you are thinking of is "Let's All Call Up A.T.&T., And Protest
    > To The President March" by Allan Sherman, Warner Bros W1487, apparently
    > recorded November 30, 1962. Might have been his second album.


    Yes, his second album, "My Son, The Celebrity." I have a mono copy
    somewhere. Lyrics at
    http://php.indiana.edu/~jbmorris/LYR...celebrity.html .
    There's also a song on the same topic on the LP "Freberg Underground!
    Show #1" from 1966: http://dmdb.org/lyrics/freberg.underground.html ,
    which is also somewhere in my collection.

    > Exchange numbers, such as your GLobe-2, GRamarcy-5, MUrry-hill-6 and so
    > on were relatively standardized, and pre-dated dialing by a substantial
    > amount of time. They were literally the name of a local district.


    Gramercy Park and Murray Hill are actual neighborhoods in Manhattan. I
    think most exchange names were somewhat more arbitrary. For example,
    Poughkeepsie has an increasing number of exchanges, and (with one
    exception) each one seems to range all over geographically.

    >> Wasn't that because the Strowger switches had trouble "backtracking"
    >> after the second digit, which (without any access code) would indicate
    >> whether it was an exchange or an area code?

    >
    > I think it's before that - no phone number or area code began with a 1,
    > and only the '0' for operator - which you'd have to talk to when making
    > a person-to-person or collect call anyway.


    I thought the original reason for having all area codes as x0x or x1x
    was that there was no prefix, and the second digit of the number would
    indicate whether it was a local or long-distance call.

    >> NYC, being the largest (and presumably the recipient
    >> of the most LD calls), got the AC that was fastest to dial, 212

    >
    > I'd be very surprised if they were being that
    > considerate of the customer. I think they might have been thinking about
    > wear and tear


    You are probably right. However, it sounds much nicer to say that it
    was done for the customers' convenience.

    > There's only so much talent out there, as evidenced by what you see as
    > stars of current shows, and what passes for plots and show concepts.


    I've noticed. I have to kill about twelve hours a week sitting in a
    chair during medical treatments, and even those "great old shows" from
    the past aren't as good as I remember them. I like "Mythbusters," though.

    Adam

  8. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    > Moe Trin wrote:
    >> Look up the numbering scheme used in Japan - it's not geographic, but
    >> based on the date the building was completed.


    Not exactly. If another floor or dwelling unit was added to an
    existing building, the new unit get the next number up for the
    area.

    Adam wrote:
    > I've heard about that. I also heard that in Japan they name the
    > intersections, not the streets, or at least did so until the American
    > occupation after WW II. How does anybody ever find anything there?


    Actually, the name is for the area, or chome, which is not
    necessarily an intersection, though it may have the same name.
    If you need to find an address, you go to the nearest police
    koban (little box, big enough for a policeman to stand in during
    bad weather) and ask. The cops like to know where everything is
    (every year, all organized crime gangs deliver to the police a
    statement of where their headquarters or main office is located,
    with a list of all members and their addresses, as of 1 January)
    and they also like to know who from out of the area is nosing
    around or visiting.

    > Gramercy Park and Murray Hill are actual neighborhoods in Manhattan. I
    > think most exchange names were somewhat more arbitrary. For example,
    > Poughkeepsie has an increasing number of exchanges, and (with one
    > exception) each one seems to range all over geographically.


    They were at one time largely geographical, with some exceptions
    for business and VIP customers. No more. Demand for numbers
    and number portability plus software for overlay networks means
    anything can be anywhere in the country, and shifting to VOIP
    will allow anything to be anywhere in the world.

    Cheers!

    jim b.

    --
    Unix is not user-unfriendly; it merely
    expects users to be computer-friendly.

  9. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    On Sat, 07 Apr 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    <131gjdbternjg52@corp.supernews.com>, Adam wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> Look up the numbering scheme used in Japan - it's not geographic, but
    >> based on the date the building was completed.

    >
    >I've heard about that. I also heard that in Japan they name the
    >intersections, not the streets, or at least did so until the American
    >occupation after WW II. How does anybody ever find anything there?


    "James D. Beard" already clarified and answered this - asking the cop
    is the frequent answer (they know their local area _very_ well). A
    standing instruction when trying to go someplace in Japan is to have
    a map prepared by the person/shop you are visiting with English AND
    Japanese explanations/directions. Saves a world of hassle.

    >There's also a song on the same topic on the LP "Freberg Underground!
    >Show #1" from 1966: http://dmdb.org/lyrics/freberg.underground.html ,
    >which is also somewhere in my collection.


    I'm still waiting for the second volume of his bio to come out. The
    first ("It Only Hurts When I Laugh" ISBN 0-8129-1297-7, 1988) is a
    delight to read - especially when you remember hearing some of the
    original material (Who puts eight great tomatoes in that little bitty
    can?) - yes, I have a copy of Dragonet as well as Green Christmas.
    BTW, did you know that the singers on many of his records - the Jud
    Conlon Singers - also backed Spike Jones?

    >Gramercy Park and Murray Hill are actual neighborhoods in Manhattan. I
    >think most exchange names were somewhat more arbitrary. For example,
    >Poughkeepsie has an increasing number of exchanges, and (with one
    >exception) each one seems to range all over geographically.


    Originally - they were the local exchange. This was initially in those
    cities that were large enough to have multiple exchanges. In the 1940s
    I recall being in the COlony exchange in Wallingford, which apparently
    was named after the main drag downtown. Later the names became more
    generic so that in the 1950s I was in the PLaza exchange in Waterbury
    and while there was a Plaza Avenue, in town, it had nothing to do with
    the telephone company whose exchange was at the corner of State and
    Grand streets.

    >I thought the original reason for having all area codes as x0x or x1x
    >was that there was no prefix, and the second digit of the number would
    >indicate whether it was a local or long-distance call.


    Why did neither the '0' or '1' digit have letters? Possible confusion
    with a 'o' and 'L' or 'i'? That's why there is no 'q'. My (rather
    limited) understanding is that the access code was part of the original
    concept because they expected to be going through phone numbers like
    water.

    >You are probably right. However, it sounds much nicer to say that it
    >was done for the customers' convenience.


    Tell that to Ernestine

    >> There's only so much talent out there, as evidenced by what you see as
    >> stars of current shows, and what passes for plots and show concepts.


    Above - Stan Freberg hasn't got that great of a voice, but at least he
    could carry the tune without using a wheel-barrow.

    >I've noticed. I have to kill about twelve hours a week sitting in a
    >chair during medical treatments, and even those "great old shows" from
    >the past aren't as good as I remember them. I like "Mythbusters," though.


    If it's daytime television, that's a total disaster area. There hasn't
    been anything worth watching on daytime TV since the 1940s. Prime
    time hasn't seen much worth watching for at least 20 years, and weekend
    stuff isn't any better. Nearly all singers can't, and gauging by the
    promos, the comedians can't exist without a laugh machine. News? Oh,
    yeah - right. The promos for the game and reality shows are almost
    enough for me to start a mail campaign to the companies that sponsor the
    shows explaining why I will never buy a product from their company again.
    But then, the movies aren't any better either.

    Old guy


  10. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    James D. Beard wrote:
    >> I also heard that in Japan they name the
    >> intersections, not the streets

    >
    > Actually, the name is for the area, or chome, which is not necessarily
    > an intersection, though it may have the same name.


    That part sounds familiar. IIRC, only four "Broadway theaters" actually
    have a Broadway address; the rest are on side streets, W 41st thru W 51st.

    > (every year, all organized crime gangs deliver to the police a
    > statement of where their headquarters or main office is located,
    > with a list of all members and their addresses, as of 1 January)


    And they get accurate replies? Wow!

    >> I think most exchange names were somewhat more arbitrary.

    >
    > They were at one time largely geographical, with some exceptions
    > for business and VIP customers. No more.


    The locales with overlay ACs confuse me. I'm glad that when they had to
    add a new AC, every number in my county and adjoining ones changed to
    the new AC, so every local call is still seven digits.

    Adam

  11. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    Moe Trin wrote:
    [Stan Freberg]
    > I'm still waiting for the second volume of his bio to come out. The
    > first ("It Only Hurts When I Laugh" ISBN 0-8129-1297-7, 1988) is a
    > delight to read


    I've requested it on interlibrary loan, as well as audiocassettes of his
    radio shows.

    > BTW, did you know that the singers on many of his records - the Jud
    > Conlon Singers - also backed Spike Jones?


    I didn't know that. I assume they sang straight material too. I have a
    couple of Spike Jones CDs, including one boxed set imported from the UK
    made from released pressings that were over fifty years old at the time,
    and therefore were public domain in the UK.

    Speaking of '50s comedy records, just last week I tried out for a local
    amateur production of "Tomfoolery," a revue of Tom Lehrer's songs.

    > in the 1950s I was in the PLaza exchange in Waterbury


    I always confuse Waterbury and Waterford. I know one of them is along
    I-84 on the way to Hartford, but can never remember which.

    > Why did neither the '0' or '1' digit have letters? Possible confusion
    > with a 'o' and 'L' or 'i'? That's why there is no 'q'. My (rather
    > limited) understanding is that the access code was part of the original
    > concept because they expected to be going through phone numbers like
    > water.


    http://www.lincmad.com/index.html has a lot of information about the
    original area codes and their changes. I remember reading online that
    one reason 'q' was dropped was that it severely limited the number of
    changes that could start with it. Also, when spoken, 'q' is easily
    confused with 'u'. For example, in Brooklyn they avoided this by having
    Avenues A through Z, but instead of Avenue Q it's Quentin Road.

    > If it's daytime television, that's a total disaster area. There hasn't
    > been anything worth watching on daytime TV since the 1940s. Prime
    > time hasn't seen much worth watching for at least 20 years, and weekend
    > stuff isn't any better.


    I know what you mean! At home I don't have cable (or satellite) TV,
    just a set-top UHF antenna that picks up the local community college's
    rebroadcast of the Schenectady PBS station.

    Adam

  12. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    On Tue, 10 Apr 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    <131n2lsr9go0ofc@corp.supernews.com>, Adam wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> BTW, did you know that the singers on many of his records - the Jud
    >> Conlon Singers - also backed Spike Jones?


    >I didn't know that. I assume they sang straight material too.


    If you mean something like "Ghost Riders In The Sky" - or similar, yeah
    they sang straight material as well. I _think_ they were always the
    group backing the main singer (who ever that might be), but I don't
    know if they ever recorded something on their own. A pity, because as
    you can hear on Freberg's "History of the United States" - songs like
    "Take an Indian To Lunch", they are a _very_ good group.

    >I have a couple of Spike Jones CDs, including one boxed set imported
    >from the UK made from released pressings that were over fifty years
    >old at the time, and therefore were public domain in the UK.


    I think I've only got a pair - there are some boxed sets that are on my
    Christmas wish list.

    >Speaking of '50s comedy records, just last week I tried out for a local
    >amateur production of "Tomfoolery," a revue of Tom Lehrer's songs.


    One has to wonder about him - last I heard, he's teaching a limited class
    on satire at UC Santa Cruz. Most people today would find him rather
    difficult to understand, as some of his material was strange at best
    ('The Old Dope Peddler') to the down-right bizarre ('I Hold Your Hand In
    Mine', as well as 'The Masochism Tango') or the perennial favorite
    (Poisoning Pigeons In The Park). (Yes, I have all of the original vinyl
    albums.) In the mid 1960s, both of my brothers-in-law were Boy Scout
    scout-masters, and they took VERY sharp exception to 'Be Prepared' for
    some reason. They were also NRA, and didn't think to highly of 'The
    Hunting Song', though it did get a chuckle.

    >> in the 1950s I was in the PLaza exchange in Waterbury

    >
    >I always confuse Waterbury and Waterford. I know one of them is along
    >I-84 on the way to Hartford, but can never remember which.


    That's Waterbury, along with the adjacent Watertown and Waterville.
    Waterford is about 4 miles WSW of New London on the Boston Post Road.
    The "bury's" (Waterbury, Danbury, Roxbury, Salisbury, and so on) _tend_
    to be on the West side of the state, though there are exceptions like
    Canterbury and Glastonbury.

    >I remember reading online that one reason 'q' was dropped was that
    >it severely limited the number of changes that could start with it.


    Partially the 'U' always follows 'Q' in English (and others that use
    the letter). Took the longest time to learn to spell Australia's
    airline.

    >Also, when spoken, 'q' is easily confused with 'u'.


    You mean like the phonetic word for 'Q' pronounced Kay-Beck?

    Old guy

  13. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > Freberg's "History of the United States"


    I think the official title is "Stan Freberg presents the United States
    of America, Volume 1." Volume 2 actually came out in 1996 and volume 3
    is reportedly in progress.

    >> I have a couple of Spike Jones CDs, including one boxed set imported
    >> from the UK made from released pressings that were over fifty years
    >> old at the time, and therefore were public domain in the UK.

    >
    > I think I've only got a pair - there are some boxed sets that are on my
    > Christmas wish list.


    This set is called "Strictly for Music Lovers" -- 4 CDs on the
    inappropriately-named Proper Records. I got it mail order for under $20
    from Nina's Discount Oldies.

    >> Tom Lehrer

    >
    > One has to wonder about him - last I heard, he's teaching a limited class
    > on satire at UC Santa Cruz.


    He's still listed as faculty (lecturer) on the UCSC website, although he
    turns 79 this month.

    > Most people today would find him rather difficult to understand


    He still has a small but dedicated following. Rhino Records released
    "Songs by/More of" on CD and that must have sold well enough for them to
    release a "definitive" 3-CD set. I think his humor is more "accessible"
    today than that of, say, Allan Sherman.

    > (Yes, I have all of the original vinyl albums.)


    I have nearly all of Lehrer's stuff on vinyl, including the two LPs that
    he didn't want included in the "definitive" box set.

    > That's Waterbury


    Waterbury CT is the one known for clocks and watches, right?

    >> Also, when spoken, 'q' is easily confused with 'u'.

    >
    > You mean like the phonetic word for 'Q' pronounced Kay-Beck?


    I pronounce it kuh-BECK, but then I've never been there. I've never
    been a big fan of the letter Q anyway.

    Adam

  14. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    On Wed, 11 Apr 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    <131r3ig31jij57b@corp.supernews.com>, Adam wrote:

    >I think the official title is "Stan Freberg presents the United States
    >of America, Volume 1." Volume 2 actually came out in 1996 and volume 3
    >is reportedly in progress.


    Volume 3 was mentioned in the liner notes of volume 2. I don't know which
    I want more - volume three, or the second part of his bio. Wonder who
    will be leading the orchestra?

    >This set is called "Strictly for Music Lovers" -- 4 CDs on the
    >inappropriately-named Proper Records. I got it mail order for under $20
    >from Nina's Discount Oldies.


    Have to see if I can sneak it past the guardian of the Credit Card
    statement. Right now, she's a little miffed over some recent charges.

    [Tom Lehrer]

    >>He's still listed as faculty (lecturer) on the UCSC website, although he

    >turns 79 this month.


    How long was Artie Shaw teaching?

    >> Most people today would find him rather difficult to understand

    >
    >He still has a small but dedicated following. Rhino Records released
    >"Songs by/More of" on CD and that must have sold well enough for them to
    >release a "definitive" 3-CD set.


    Something like 'New Math' or 'Be Prepared' or even "Bright College Days"
    isn't that much of a stretch. But it's a whole different era, so
    something like 'MLF Lullaby, or 'Wernher Von Braun' or "We Will All Go
    Together When We Go' are going to be completely lost on many - never
    mind the time warp of 'George Murphy' (shades of Flackman and Reagan).

    >Waterbury CT is the one known for clocks and watches, right?


    A century ago perhaps - all of the industry that was there even as
    late as the 1950s is gone.

    >> You mean like the phonetic word for 'Q' pronounced Kay-Beck?

    >
    >I pronounce it kuh-BECK, but then I've never been there.


    Kay-beck is the official pronunciation of the phonetic letter, not
    the name of the province.

    Old guy

  15. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    Moe Trin wrote:
    >> "Stan Freberg presents the United States of America, Volume 1."

    >
    > Volume 3 was mentioned in the liner notes of volume 2. I don't know which
    > I want more - volume three, or the second part of his bio. Wonder who
    > will be leading the orchestra?


    Who leads it on volume 2? My ILL request for his bio is still pending,
    but I got episodes 1-7 of his 1957 radio show. There's an interesting
    book called "Seriously funny : the rebel comedians of the 1950s and
    1960s" by Gerald Nachman that discusses all the humorists mentioned in
    this thread and quite a few more.

    >> I got it mail order for under $20 from Nina's Discount Oldies.

    >
    > Have to see if I can sneak it past the guardian of the Credit Card
    > statement. Right now, she's a little miffed over some recent charges.


    Will there be any objections if you request a free catalog from them?
    They have a LOT of stuff at good prices.

    > How long was Artie Shaw teaching?


    I did a quick Google search and couldn't find out, but I did learn that
    he lived in my county from 1951 to 1955.

    > Something like 'New Math' or 'Be Prepared' or even "Bright College Days"
    > isn't that much of a stretch. But it's a whole different era, so
    > something like 'MLF Lullaby, or 'Wernher Von Braun' or "We Will All Go
    > Together When We Go' are going to be completely lost on many - never
    > mind the time warp of 'George Murphy' (shades of Flackman and Reagan).


    Yes, some of Tom Lehrer's stuff holds up well today, but some
    (especially the album TWTYTW) dates badly. In a local college
    production of "Tomfoolery" in 2002, they ended up rewriting the lyrics
    of "George Murphy" to be about Vince what's-his-name of the WWF.
    Actually the students there did an excellent and very creative job with
    the material (otherwise presented pretty much as written), although I
    suspect that some of the jokes had to be explained to the student cast.

    An example of REALLY dated humor is the LP "The First Family." It seems
    to have sold millions until its sales abruptly dropped to zero. Any
    time I've seen used LPs for sale, there's invariably a copy of that
    album, always in mono. Maybe it's funnier in stereo?

    Adam

  16. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
    <1324ueg2lbphkde@corp.supernews.com>, Adam wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> Wonder who will be leading the orchestra?


    >Who leads it on volume 2?


    Billy May. Died in January 2004. He was long term with Capital, and
    goes back to Peggy Lee and Old Blue Eyes himself.

    >My ILL request for his bio is still pending,


    Good Grief - are they delivering it by dog sled or something? I get
    ILLs within the county in seven days max, and in the entire state in
    ten days.

    >but I got episodes 1-7 of his 1957 radio show. There's an interesting
    >book called "Seriously funny : the rebel comedians of the 1950s and
    >1960s" by Gerald Nachman that discusses all the humorists mentioned in
    >this thread and quite a few more.


    It vaguely rings a bell.

    >Will there be any objections if you request a free catalog from them?
    >They have a LOT of stuff at good prices.


    I'm not allowed to go into any book store at the moment - which is sort
    of OK - as I'm starting to run out of room in the library.

    >> How long was Artie Shaw teaching?

    >
    >I did a quick Google search and couldn't find out, but I did learn that
    >he lived in my county from 1951 to 1955.


    Opps, mis-read that as "country" and wondered WTF - he lived in Spain
    from 55 to 60, then moved back to Connecticut, before moving to California
    in the 1970s. He was often giving lectures in the California university
    system, though I don't know if he was accredited. Certainly he was a
    SOB (I think his 8 wives would attest to that), but he also knew what a
    clarinet was - example: "Temptation" (even though I think the "Homer
    and Jethro" cover is more well known ;-) )

    >Yes, some of Tom Lehrer's stuff holds up well today, but some
    >(especially the album TWTYTW) dates badly.


    That's to be expected - TW3 was _meant_ to be contemporary comment.

    >Actually the students there did an excellent and very creative job with
    >the material (otherwise presented pretty much as written), although I
    >suspect that some of the jokes had to be explained to the student cast.


    The one I was thinking of would be 'Alma' - but "Opedius Rex" is likely
    to make people say "huh???"

    Old guy

  17. Re: [OT] Dropped Dialup Connection

    Moe Trin wrote:
    >> but I got episodes 1-7 of [Freberg's] 1957 radio show


    And it's not as good as I expected it to be, although it does have its
    moments ("Elderly Man River").

    [Artie Shaw]
    > Certainly he was a SOB (I think his 8 wives would attest to that)


    Number seven is one of my favorites, Doris Dowling, possibly best known
    as "Gloria the hooker" in the movie "The Lost Weekend."

    ["Tomfoolery"]
    >> Actually the students there did an excellent and very creative job with
    >> the material (otherwise presented pretty much as written), although I
    >> suspect that some of the jokes had to be explained to the student cast.

    >
    > The one I was thinking of would be 'Alma' - but "Oedipus Rex" is likely
    > to make people say "huh???"


    The college production that I saw (I don't remember Off-Broadway) got
    "Oedipus Rex" all right. One performer sang it, while two others
    portrayed a modern-day mother and son going slightly beyond the
    boundaries of socially acceptable mother-son behavior.

    And of course there's "Hullaballou at Thebes" from the Broadway musical
    "New Faces of 1968," with that wonderful line about Oedipus: "He used to
    have eyes for Mama / But now he just used to have eyes."

    Adam

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