Mandriva general setup - Mandrake

This is a discussion on Mandriva general setup - Mandrake ; In review, I still suspect Mandriva will do what you say you want. However, I am not sure that Linux is the proper OS for you. A Guide to OS Selection If you want to know why it works Linux ...

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Thread: Mandriva general setup

  1. Re: Mandriva general setup


    In review, I still suspect Mandriva will do what you say
    you want. However, I am not sure that Linux is the proper
    OS for you.

    A Guide to OS Selection

    If you want to know why it works Linux
    If you don't care why it works iMAC
    If you want to know why it doesn't work DOS
    If you don't care why it doesn't work Windows

    Perhaps an iMAC would be a good investment for you...

    Cheers!

    jim b.

    --
    UNIX is not user-unfriendly; it merely
    expects users to be computer-friendly.

  2. Re: Mandriva general setup

    foo writes:

    >Unruh wrote:
    >>> Compiling a Linux kernel (and then using it) is quite trivial.
    >>> What have you tried exactly ? Let me guess, nothing.

    >>
    >>
    >> I am sorry but this is bull****. You have never compiled a kernel from
    >> scratch. YOu are asked about 3000 questions about various and sundry
    >> modules that no newbie knows what they are about, or what the "right"
    >> answer is. And if you get it wrong your system will NOT work. Oh, you mean
    >> you have never gone through setting up a config and simplyuse someone
    >> elses? Why are you compiling your kernel then?
    >>


    >That's correct, when I have needed (not for several years) to modify
    >a distribution kernel, I start with the distribution .config and
    >adjust to suit my needs. I have never directly downloaded from
    >kernel.org, but have used/modified/patched the src linux kernels from cooker.


    >When I'm happy with the result I would build a new rpm using
    >the distributions spec file.


    >Do you understand that you can pick between several kernels via
    >your boot loader ? So your system will still work if you get
    >it wrong.


    No your system will not work. You can reboot and use a different kernel
    yes. But it is like telling someone that if their car works even if the
    engine falls out, since they can always jump into another car.


    >If you answer the 3000 questions your not doing it the easy way.
    >Anyone who has built custom kernels knows that it's trivial.
    >Anyone who thinks it hard, is doing it the hard way.
    >Perhaps you think it's non trivial because you need to think about it.


    To recompile a kernel someone else has set up for you is easy. Yes. But it
    is even easier to just use their compiled kernel. Sometimes you have to
    recompile. Sometimes you have to go to the hospital and have a leg cut off.
    But both are rare. Anyone who advises someone to recompile their kernel for
    almost anything, except the rarest of circumstances does not know how Linux
    works.



    >>
    >>>> Well, thank you, it is not that obviousn and yes I had looked into it.
    >>>> I think bull**** is too far away to hear.

    >>
    >>> If you had looked into it, you would have found the solution
    >>> to your problem, nobody else has this problem because they
    >>> actually tried and succeeded in setting up a LaserJet 2605dn.

    >>
    >>> Your problem does not exist in the real world.

    >>
    >> His problem does exist, and since he exists in the real world, so does the
    >> problem His problem is "How do you set up Mandriva to use Printer XXXXXX"
    >>


    >In case you missed it, this is exactly what was posted :


    > For instance I use a HP colour laserjet 2605dn which
    > is not supported by any version of linux.


    >You forgot to include that in your reply.
    >I wonder if you'll now state that Linux is a kernel, not a distribution
    >or a printing system or ...


    Yes, and it is clear to anyone who reads it that this means "HOw do I get
    my colour HP laserjet 2605dn to print in Mandriva"?
    While his phrasing is somewhat belligerent, the question is clear, and
    answering with a guide as to how to make it work far more usefull to all
    than answering with words like "bull****". The latter is helpful to noone,
    and makes you look a mean spirited, obtuse, guttersnipe.

    Linux is usually used to mean the whole distribution.


    >>
    >>
    >>>> Whatever that means.
    >>>>

    >>
    >>> In Australia, "I call bull****" means I'm saying your full
    >>> of ****, bull**** to be precise.

    >>
    >> Unfortuantely your answers are even more useless than his questions.
    >>
    >>> You post things saying hardware doesn't work with Linux, your
    >>> only example is complete rubbish, you are full of ****.

    >>
    >> He asks for help and you respond like this? Go away.
    >>


    >Sure. Before I go, why don't you advise GT to ensure the "hplip"
    >packages are installed before running printerdrake.


    And even that is not needed. It is a network printer. It expects to
    receive postscript files and print them. That is what you need to send.



    >Keep up the good work.


  3. Re: Mandriva general setup

    Unruh wrote:
    > foo writes:
    >
    >> Do you understand that you can pick between several kernels via
    >> your boot loader ? So your system will still work if you get
    >> it wrong.

    >
    > No your system will not work. You can reboot and use a different kernel
    > yes. But it is like telling someone that if their car works even if the
    > engine falls out, since they can always jump into another car.
    >


    Your system will work when you use a working kernel.
    It's quite trivial. Your car analogy doesn't fit, nothing
    has fallen out. Try and stay focused.

    >
    >> If you answer the 3000 questions your not doing it the easy way.
    >> Anyone who has built custom kernels knows that it's trivial.
    >> Anyone who thinks it hard, is doing it the hard way.
    >> Perhaps you think it's non trivial because you need to think about it.

    >
    > To recompile a kernel someone else has set up for you is easy. Yes. But it
    > is even easier to just use their compiled kernel. Sometimes you have to
    > recompile. Sometimes you have to go to the hospital and have a leg cut off.
    > But both are rare. Anyone who advises someone to recompile their kernel for
    > almost anything, except the rarest of circumstances does not know how Linux
    > works.
    >


    Your loosing sight of your goal, you just answered the kernel re-compile
    question with the same answer I gave, so should I still go away ?

    You said "your answers are even more useless than his questions" but my
    answer is the same as yours, does that make my answer useful, or your
    answer also useless, I can't keep up when change your mind so often.

    >
    >
    >>>>> Well, thank you, it is not that obviousn and yes I had looked into it.
    >>>>> I think bull**** is too far away to hear.
    >>>> If you had looked into it, you would have found the solution
    >>>> to your problem, nobody else has this problem because they
    >>>> actually tried and succeeded in setting up a LaserJet 2605dn.
    >>>> Your problem does not exist in the real world.
    >>> His problem does exist, and since he exists in the real world, so does the
    >>> problem His problem is "How do you set up Mandriva to use Printer XXXXXX"
    >>>

    >
    >> In case you missed it, this is exactly what was posted :

    >
    >> For instance I use a HP colour laserjet 2605dn which
    >> is not supported by any version of linux.

    >
    >> You forgot to include that in your reply.
    >> I wonder if you'll now state that Linux is a kernel, not a distribution
    >> or a printing system or ...

    >
    > Yes, and it is clear to anyone who reads it that this means "HOw do I get
    > my colour HP laserjet 2605dn to print in Mandriva"?
    > While his phrasing is somewhat belligerent, the question is clear, and
    > answering with a guide as to how to make it work far more usefull to all
    > than answering with words like "bull****". The latter is helpful to noone,
    > and makes you look a mean spirited, obtuse, guttersnipe.


    Guttersnipe, wow, I haven't heard that for I don't many years.

    Anyone who read the original post would see the statement, no
    question was asked regarding if or how to get the printer working,
    but I offered a 100% correct solution anyway (as did others).

    >
    > Linux is usually used to mean the whole distribution.
    >


    That's how I use the term also.

    >
    >>>
    >>>>> Whatever that means.
    >>>>>
    >>>> In Australia, "I call bull****" means I'm saying your full
    >>>> of ****, bull**** to be precise.
    >>> Unfortuantely your answers are even more useless than his questions.


    This is getting weird, you copy my answer about the kernel compile,
    not an exact copy, you got the capitalization wrong, but the answer
    is the same (not the above answer, your direct reply to GT).

    I pointed out the "HPLIP" drivers, and even the minimum version number
    required, but you see two 100% correct answers as useless. Weird.

    >>>
    >>>> You post things saying hardware doesn't work with Linux, your
    >>>> only example is complete rubbish, you are full of ****.
    >>> He asks for help and you respond like this? Go away.
    >>>

    >
    >> Sure. Before I go, why don't you advise GT to ensure the "hplip"
    >> packages are installed before running printerdrake.

    >
    > And even that is not needed. It is a network printer. It expects to
    > receive postscript files and print them. That is what you need to send.
    >


    I don't have one of these printers, but I'm sure your correct. If
    you don't want to use any features of the printer, use it as a
    network (or whatever) attached generic postscript printer.

    But, if you do want to use the features, use the correct driver.

    Does that mean my (and others) answer would change GT's bull**** from
    "not supported by any version" to "works perfectly", and your answer
    would change GT's bull**** from "not supported by any version" to
    "it prints, but doesn't use any features of the device" ?

    I find your incomplete answers and wrong analogies quite amusing,
    please keep this going. I have got to say it again, guttersnipe
    was a ripper, well done.

    >
    >
    >> Keep up the good work.


  4. Mandriva general setup : END

    Hi again,
    I understand your comments, I thank you for your replies.
    As far as judgment goes, I believe things are pretty much binary
    around these parts.
    ------------
    Anyway, not to be rude, let me address some of the comments in this
    thread, and I think we can call it quits.
    -----------
    Mandrake and mandriva : the latter is the continuation of the former. I
    do not think the software has changed so much that the questions be out
    of place. So why not the former ng ? Because nowadays this linux distro
    IS the current one.
    At any rate I do not see this as being enough of an issue to actually
    write about it.
    ------------
    No, I do not wish to write this, again, anywhere. I find people here
    give an OS like linux a bad reputation, but then again you do not seem
    to give a damn.

    Before getting cremated for this, let me try and explain this last
    comment : A lot of people are coming to linux for various reasons,
    mainly to try and escape windows. I did so a long time ago because linux
    offered a number of properties windows did not. I did not like linux
    because I could tweak around the engine, but because I could do things
    as a user level (and somewhat admin level) that windows could not do.
    I find that setting an "acceptance" level based on knowledge of a system
    that found its roots in the DoD is pretty pointless. And for someone who
    is wishing to go to linux, well think back when you were a newbie.
    So, yes, not knowing "system" stuff does exist, and were I you, I might
    think about how such newbies would take your comments.
    People do not go to linux because it has a reputation of being hard.
    That is not the case, but teaching people how to approach it is more
    useful than telling and showing them how dumb they are. I go to many
    ngs, mostly scientific, and none even reach the level of arrogance found
    in OS-related ngs.

    As an example, if someone cannot save a file and is confused and
    desperate, you might say : see if your permissions are set correctly for
    this file :
    ls -lsa filename
    if you find something like
    rwxrwxr-- to the left of the filename then you are not allowed to write
    or run the file.
    I can tell you how to change it but if you are asking these questions I
    guess you are not familiar with permission flags?
    If so, I recommend a quick look at
    (http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/php/2003...undations.html)
    which deal with that.
    You can then change your permissions as you like.


    This is in general.
    ---------------
    I read all posts before replying.
    -------------
    Smart questions : how do you know how smart a question is until you have
    a point of reference ?
    "State your problem"
    "Printer does not work"
    "Right, (attitude, etc...) what printer, driver, OS, machine, Ip, IRQ,..."
    "Errrrr, printer XYZ, driver (what's that), Linux, Inspiron 34ER, no
    idea, no idea,..."
    blah
    blah
    blah
    "Well pal, if you can't even supply these info you have no right using
    Linux." (see your list below)
    Which basically translated means piss off. (see your list below)

    You do not know what a smart question is, because you do not know what
    people do and do not understand, andthey have to figure that out. So
    THEY are asking YOU to help THEM figure out what to ask.
    I know, tough job. It's called : explaining.

    And the hlink supplied does not help unless you already have a fairly
    good idea of what's what. "Smart" is a very relative concept. Forget
    putting your assumption of my iq here, this is below you.
    -----------
    How have I acted so far : I asked a very basic question. It is true I do
    not react too well when treated like an idiot. And if things go in that
    direction, I think it is good to take a step back. I apologise if I said
    something to offend, it was not my intentions, but it goes both ways and
    I do believe I thanked everyone.
    IT is called common courtesy.
    -----------
    "It was not obvious from your Original Post that you are NOT running
    Mandrake."
    Never said I was/was not. That's beside the point : and if it is not,
    point it out, politely.
    ----------
    "I can see how some people would *jump to the conclusion* that you are
    running Mandrake, you posted in a Mandrake group, and have been having
    fun configuring it with your setup and now your new printer is giving
    you grief. Now you are wondering if you should install Mandriva."

    No one gave any info about this. If you have to jump to conclusions, you
    do not have all the info. And jumping to conclusions usually means
    getting it wrong.
    I said I was considering Mandriva and was wondering if I might expect
    trouble with a printer.
    Where do you see any of your quote?
    ---------
    "They would assume you tried to use the new printer and it failed.
    They then want you to provide failure information.
    Pretty straight forward response, based on their assumption."

    Never said I tried installing it.
    Again : assumption. I merely asked if I might find problems.
    One does try to get info before getting a company to buy software.
    Since linux is not an OS one finds drivers easily for, one tries
    ng,google etc, to see what kind of replies one gets.
    That's it, that's all, nothing to it.
    All the rest is assumptions based on not asking questions.
    I know linux provides a list of drivers, but this one is not there.
    Not on their web list, not on HP's either.
    So, next step : ng query.
    --------------------
    "You were asked, more than once, about what "pro use" and have provided
    no information about that either."

    Fortran dev, and printing, and latex. That's pretty much it.
    Where does that come into play? And being pro or personal, where does
    THAT come into play ?

    A printer is not going to install easier in the office or at home, doing
    fortran or c++.
    Not even in the windows world, where everything is tamed, does this kind
    of question arise.
    ---------------------
    "That starts to make you look like a troll."

    And you like not really trying to figure out what I am trying to get across.
    It might be irritating to you, then maybe the same for me, you think ?
    If you start making a troll out of me , why would I not think of you as
    an arrogant a$$?

    That's when things get complicated and wise people back off and try
    again, on a lighter approach.
    --------------
    "Another statement making you look like a troll, trying to start a flame
    fest,
    by not providing requested informtion, more complaints about linux,
    continued complaints about replies, rude linux news groups, ...."

    Sincerest apologies : a flame fest ????? I am dealing with a problem I
    need to solve, do you really think I feel like wasting time?
    As for the rest of you comment, I trully have not idea what you are on
    about. I would not use linux if I did not like it, but as far as ngs are
    concerned, I have often seen "**** off - learn - come back later' - answers.
    I might not seem like that to you, but to people of lesser (much lesser)
    expertise, it does. Again, I am comparing to other ngs.

    ---------------
    "The fact that you went ahead and replied with mime AND vcard still set,
    indicated to me, you were a real a$$h013
    and I figured this thread was going to drag on and on and on..."

    I think it indicates that I either have simply not understood, or maybe
    that I had thought I had set it off but did not.
    At any rate, what would I gain in annoying anyone, when all I am trying
    to get is info I NEED!
    You don't piss where you eat. Well, I don't.

    And you went on with your assumptions ....
    --------------------
    "Petty point first: Get rid of the V-card rubbish when posting
    >> to a USENET Linux group or you will see no further reply from me."

    That "tone" was in your head, the poster was stating a fact."

    No, he was stating a command. No asking, not please, just do it.
    The only fact was that he was going to stop replying.
    Well reading it, you might find it inviting. I don't. Personal taste I
    guess.

    ----------------
    Please, read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

    This is good.
    -----------------
    "That is a cop out statement. I already posted information about test
    groups to
    your Test post. That is what test groups are for. Testing your posts.
    With all your years of dual boot, I am impressed clicking/delete was
    beyond your means."

    This is called sarcasm. What you are reading is a much lighter dose of
    it. I don't think you are enjoying it.
    -----------------
    "Hmmm, Now we see you with "years of linux for work" experience.
    It is getting harder and harder to believe you are not a troll.
    What part of pacakge did you not understand with all your years of
    work on linux microsoft experience. "

    Hey... I asked a one liner, that's it.
    "linux microsoft" that's cute. Not bright but cute.
    The rest of twister's post being more of the same and boring, I'll stop
    there.


    > In review, I still suspect Mandriva will do what you say
    > you want. However, I am not sure that Linux is the proper
    > OS for you.


    How do you *know* that for a fact?
    I never said I wanted to know why it worked, I merely asked a question
    concerning kernels compilation.
    This simple question, which should have been answered in three lines
    yielded 30odd answers. A good part of which is unproductive.
    If you need useful info, be specific.
    (don't like that? Read your posts)

    So far I have gathered that kernel compilation does not set things up
    unless the modules concerned are present.
    Some useful info too.

    For this I thank you all.

    Oh, and BTW : it works because if it did not it would not be here.

    >
    > A Guide to OS Selection
    >
    > If you want to know why it works Linux
    > If you don't care why it works iMAC
    > If you want to know why it doesn't work DOS
    > If you don't care why it doesn't work Windows
    >
    > Perhaps an iMAC would be a good investment for you...
    >
    > Cheers!
    >
    > jim b.
    >

    Hopefully we all learned something from this.
    I know I did.
    Cheers.

  5. Re: Mandriva general setup : END


    GT wrote:
    > Hi again,
    > I understand your comments, I thank you for your replies.
    > As far as judgment goes, I believe things are pretty much binary
    > around these parts.
    > ------------
    > Anyway, not to be rude, let me address some of the comments in this
    > thread, and I think we can call it quits.
    > -----------
    > Mandrake and mandriva : the latter is the continuation of the former. I
    > do not think the software has changed so much that the questions be out
    > of place. So why not the former ng ? Because nowadays this linux distro
    > IS the current one.
    > At any rate I do not see this as being enough of an issue to actually
    > write about it.
    > ------------
    > No, I do not wish to write this, again, anywhere. I find people here
    > give an OS like linux a bad reputation, but then again you do not seem
    > to give a damn.
    >
    > Before getting cremated for this, let me try and explain this last
    > comment : A lot of people are coming to linux for various reasons,
    > mainly to try and escape windows. I did so a long time ago because linux
    > offered a number of properties windows did not. I did not like linux
    > because I could tweak around the engine, but because I could do things
    > as a user level (and somewhat admin level) that windows could not do.
    > I find that setting an "acceptance" level based on knowledge of a system
    > that found its roots in the DoD is pretty pointless. And for someone who
    > is wishing to go to linux, well think back when you were a newbie.
    > So, yes, not knowing "system" stuff does exist, and were I you, I might
    > think about how such newbies would take your comments.
    > People do not go to linux because it has a reputation of being hard.
    > That is not the case, but teaching people how to approach it is more
    > useful than telling and showing them how dumb they are. I go to many
    > ngs, mostly scientific, and none even reach the level of arrogance found
    > in OS-related ngs.
    >
    > As an example, if someone cannot save a file and is confused and
    > desperate, you might say : see if your permissions are set correctly for
    > this file :
    > ls -lsa filename
    > if you find something like
    > rwxrwxr-- to the left of the filename then you are not allowed to write
    > or run the file.
    > I can tell you how to change it but if you are asking these questions I
    > guess you are not familiar with permission flags?
    > If so, I recommend a quick look at
    > (http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/php/2003...undations.html)
    > which deal with that.
    > You can then change your permissions as you like.
    >
    >
    > This is in general.
    > ---------------
    > I read all posts before replying.
    > -------------
    > Smart questions : how do you know how smart a question is until you have
    > a point of reference ?
    > "State your problem"
    > "Printer does not work"
    > "Right, (attitude, etc...) what printer, driver, OS, machine, Ip, IRQ,..."
    > "Errrrr, printer XYZ, driver (what's that), Linux, Inspiron 34ER, no
    > idea, no idea,..."
    > blah
    > blah
    > blah
    > "Well pal, if you can't even supply these info you have no right using
    > Linux." (see your list below)
    > Which basically translated means piss off. (see your list below)
    >
    > You do not know what a smart question is, because you do not know what
    > people do and do not understand, andthey have to figure that out. So
    > THEY are asking YOU to help THEM figure out what to ask.
    > I know, tough job. It's called : explaining.
    >
    > And the hlink supplied does not help unless you already have a fairly
    > good idea of what's what. "Smart" is a very relative concept. Forget
    > putting your assumption of my iq here, this is below you.
    > -----------
    > How have I acted so far : I asked a very basic question. It is true I do
    > not react too well when treated like an idiot. And if things go in that
    > direction, I think it is good to take a step back. I apologise if I said
    > something to offend, it was not my intentions, but it goes both ways and
    > I do believe I thanked everyone.
    > IT is called common courtesy.
    > -----------
    > "It was not obvious from your Original Post that you are NOT running
    > Mandrake."
    > Never said I was/was not. That's beside the point : and if it is not,
    > point it out, politely.
    > ----------
    > "I can see how some people would *jump to the conclusion* that you are
    > running Mandrake, you posted in a Mandrake group, and have been having
    > fun configuring it with your setup and now your new printer is giving
    > you grief. Now you are wondering if you should install Mandriva."
    >
    > No one gave any info about this. If you have to jump to conclusions, you
    > do not have all the info. And jumping to conclusions usually means
    > getting it wrong.
    > I said I was considering Mandriva and was wondering if I might expect
    > trouble with a printer.
    > Where do you see any of your quote?
    > ---------
    > "They would assume you tried to use the new printer and it failed.
    > They then want you to provide failure information.
    > Pretty straight forward response, based on their assumption."
    >
    > Never said I tried installing it.
    > Again : assumption. I merely asked if I might find problems.
    > One does try to get info before getting a company to buy software.
    > Since linux is not an OS one finds drivers easily for, one tries
    > ng,google etc, to see what kind of replies one gets.
    > That's it, that's all, nothing to it.
    > All the rest is assumptions based on not asking questions.
    > I know linux provides a list of drivers, but this one is not there.
    > Not on their web list, not on HP's either.
    > So, next step : ng query.
    > --------------------
    > "You were asked, more than once, about what "pro use" and have provided
    > no information about that either."
    >
    > Fortran dev, and printing, and latex. That's pretty much it.
    > Where does that come into play? And being pro or personal, where does
    > THAT come into play ?
    >
    > A printer is not going to install easier in the office or at home, doing
    > fortran or c++.
    > Not even in the windows world, where everything is tamed, does this kind
    > of question arise.
    > ---------------------
    > "That starts to make you look like a troll."
    >
    > And you like not really trying to figure out what I am trying to get
    > across.
    > It might be irritating to you, then maybe the same for me, you think ?
    > If you start making a troll out of me , why would I not think of you as
    > an arrogant a$$?
    >
    > That's when things get complicated and wise people back off and try
    > again, on a lighter approach.
    > --------------
    > "Another statement making you look like a troll, trying to start a flame
    > fest,
    > by not providing requested informtion, more complaints about linux,
    > continued complaints about replies, rude linux news groups, ...."
    >
    > Sincerest apologies : a flame fest ????? I am dealing with a problem I
    > need to solve, do you really think I feel like wasting time?
    > As for the rest of you comment, I trully have not idea what you are on
    > about. I would not use linux if I did not like it, but as far as ngs are
    > concerned, I have often seen "**** off - learn - come back later' -
    > answers.
    > I might not seem like that to you, but to people of lesser (much lesser)
    > expertise, it does. Again, I am comparing to other ngs.
    >
    > ---------------
    > "The fact that you went ahead and replied with mime AND vcard still set,
    > indicated to me, you were a real a$$h013
    > and I figured this thread was going to drag on and on and on..."
    >
    > I think it indicates that I either have simply not understood, or maybe
    > that I had thought I had set it off but did not.
    > At any rate, what would I gain in annoying anyone, when all I am trying
    > to get is info I NEED!
    > You don't piss where you eat. Well, I don't.
    >
    > And you went on with your assumptions ....
    > --------------------
    > "Petty point first: Get rid of the V-card rubbish when posting
    > >> to a USENET Linux group or you will see no further reply from me."

    > That "tone" was in your head, the poster was stating a fact."
    >
    > No, he was stating a command. No asking, not please, just do it.
    > The only fact was that he was going to stop replying.
    > Well reading it, you might find it inviting. I don't. Personal taste I
    > guess.
    >
    > ----------------
    > Please, read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
    >
    > This is good.
    > -----------------
    > "That is a cop out statement. I already posted information about test
    > groups to
    > your Test post. That is what test groups are for. Testing your posts.
    > With all your years of dual boot, I am impressed clicking/delete was
    > beyond your means."
    >
    > This is called sarcasm. What you are reading is a much lighter dose of
    > it. I don't think you are enjoying it.
    > -----------------
    > "Hmmm, Now we see you with "years of linux for work" experience.
    > It is getting harder and harder to believe you are not a troll.
    > What part of pacakge did you not understand with all your years of
    > work on linux microsoft experience. "
    >
    > Hey... I asked a one liner, that's it.
    > "linux microsoft" that's cute. Not bright but cute.
    > The rest of twister's post being more of the same and boring, I'll stop
    > there.



    And your reason for including all the above in a reply to
    my post is .... ?
    >
    >
    >> In review, I still suspect Mandriva will do what you say
    >> you want. However, I am not sure that Linux is the proper
    >> OS for you.

    >
    > How do you *know* that for a fact?


    Please not use of the word "suspect" in my first sentence. Linux in
    general and Mandriva specifically is very capable these days, and
    likely can do most things someone considering Linux would want. I
    am aware some users are having problems with tv cards, and proprietary
    software may contain wrinkles not yet reverse engineered (or that
    cannot legally be incorporated in open source software), so there are a few
    things Mandriva will not do. Hence, use of the word "suspect."
    FWIW, "suspect" and "know" are not synonyms.

    I "know" that I am not sure that Linux is the proper OS for you simply
    because I "know" what I am not sure about in this specific context.

    > I never said I wanted to know why it worked, I merely asked a question
    > concerning kernels compilation.
    > This simple question, which should have been answered in three lines
    > yielded 30odd answers. A good part of which is unproductive.
    > If you need useful info, be specific.
    > (don't like that? Read your posts)
    >
    > So far I have gathered that kernel compilation does not set things up
    > unless the modules concerned are present.
    > Some useful info too.
    >
    > For this I thank you all.
    >
    > Oh, and BTW : it works because if it did not it would not be here.
    >

    What is the "it" that works? And why should I believe that
    "being here" is functionally synonymous with "works."

    >> A Guide to OS Selection
    >>
    >> If you want to know why it works Linux
    >> If you don't care why it works iMAC
    >> If you want to know why it doesn't work DOS
    >> If you don't care why it doesn't work Windows
    >>
    >> Perhaps an iMAC would be a good investment for you...
    >>
    >> Cheers!
    >>
    >> jim b.
    >>

    > Hopefully we all learned something from this.
    > I know I did.
    > Cheers.


    Used as a greeting, a farewell, or an interjection,
    "Cheers!" requires an exclamation point, as a matter
    of customary usage.

    No cheers. Which, written in sadness, requires no
    exclamation mark.

    "plonk"

    jim beard


    --
    UNIX is not user-unfriendly; it merely
    expects users to be computer-friendly.

  6. Re: Mandriva general setup : END


    >
    > And your reason for including all the above in a reply to
    > my post is .... ?

    That it followed the rest and I felt it more useful for my arguments to
    be in a continuous flow since you guys are all reading the thread.
    I hope this is not going to get us into a "this is my thread, not yours"
    argument, now.

    >>
    >>
    >>> In review, I still suspect Mandriva will do what you say
    >>> you want. However, I am not sure that Linux is the proper
    >>> OS for you.

    >>
    >> How do you *know* that for a fact?

    >
    > Please not use of the word "suspect" in my first sentence. Linux in
    > general and Mandriva specifically is very capable these days, and
    > likely can do most things someone considering Linux would want. I
    > am aware some users are having problems with tv cards, and proprietary
    > software may contain wrinkles not yet reverse engineered (or that
    > cannot legally be incorporated in open source software), so there are a
    > few things Mandriva will not do. Hence, use of the word "suspect."


    RIGHT, you mean notE. Ok

    > FWIW, "suspect" and "know" are not synonyms.


    I suspect I know this, but thank you for pointing it out.
    (slight humour, no offence)

    Ok, here's what I meant : how do you *know* you can suspect Mandriva
    will do what I say I want? How do you *know* that you can be sure or not
    that linux is the proper OS for me?

    >
    > I "know" that I am not sure that Linux is the proper OS for you simply
    > because I "know" what I am not sure about in this specific context.
    >


    Wow, this is getting philosophical.
    A lot can be said about the pros and cons of all OSs.
    I feel very confortable with linux, but I do feel that some things could
    be made easier, that's all. And it is not wishing that extra care be
    put in making linux be more userfriendly that makes me "unsuitable for it".
    I believe the first thing an OS, which is the interface between a
    machine and a human, should be is user friendly. The second is efficient.
    Why in that order? Because if it is not userfriendly the user cannot
    make it work properly and it therefore cannot be efficient.
    Note that "friendly" can be thought of as "ergonomic".
    So, what is wrong with wanting friendliness out of linux ?
    What is wrong in not wanting to spend hours or days in setups? And God
    knows I have spent my share of time in installing numerous Windows and
    linuxes. Some like messing with fstabs and uids and masks and dhcps and
    winmodems, I find it very boring : I want to use the system to work.
    This does NOT mean I am not interested in knowing how it works. If that
    were the case I would NOT know how it works, and how it works, if you
    wish to go down to the nitty-gritty is like setting up printers by
    nudging the bits on the processors you had to open up with a screwdriver
    back in 1982.
    So, I want linux for various reasons, and I can't stand windows for
    various reasons. But windows has very (few) nice things too.

    >> Oh, and BTW : it works because if it did not it would not be here.
    >>

    > What is the "it" that works? And why should I believe that
    > "being here" is functionally synonymous with "works."


    It= OS= linux in this case but this sentence can be understood at a
    higher level. It's also known as the Anthropic Principle.
    And believing that "being" there is synonymous with "works" is due to
    the fact that is an OS does not work, people are not going to use it and
    hence it is not going to be around for long. Hence it won't be there
    soon. Hence "being there", in that particular case = "works."

    >> Cheers.

    >
    > Used as a greeting, a farewell, or an interjection,
    > "Cheers!" requires an exclamation point, as a matter
    > of customary usage.
    >
    > No cheers. Which, written in sadness, requires no
    > exclamation mark.
    >
    > "plonk"
    >
    > jim beard


    Unbelievable. Words fail.

    >
    >


  7. Re: Mandriva general setup : END

    On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:57:06 +0100, GT wrote:

    Well, shuckey dern, and here I thought END in the Subject was just
    your swan song, and just wanted to say how you felt and wanted to part
    friends with the group.

    Looks like you want to augue some more.

    > That it followed the rest and I felt it more useful for my arguments to
    > be in a continuous flow since you guys are all reading the thread.


    So the subject is not the END and you wish to continue arguments, I guess?
    There was no good reason to start a new thread with a misleading subject.

    You could have just posted the original thread.

    > I hope this is not going to get us into a "this is my thread, not yours"
    > argument, now.


    Looking like more flame bait.

    I'll bite, What do mean by that statement?


    > Ok, here's what I meant : how do you *know* you can suspect Mandriva
    > will do what I say I want? How do you *know* that you can be sure or not
    > that linux is the proper OS for me?


    Throwing out more flame bait I see. Why, you ask;

    Your origional post has

    "Small but all important question : I feel mandriva seems the best
    solution for my needs. "

    Q3 : This is for pro use, so getting this distro is a pretty serious matter.


    More than a few times for "your pro use".
    I pointed that out in that thread, and what did you respond with in
    this thread:

    "Fortran dev, and printing, and latex. That's pretty much it.
    Where does that come into play?

    You asked "for pro use"

    We have to know your usage requirements for use to make a better guess
    if Mandriva is for you.

    > And being pro or personal, where does THAT come into play ?"


    Pro, we would need to know activity like video/animation/cad production,
    If work, Mandriva may not be meet requirements.

    Personal, gaming to mention just one activity. Mandriva 2008 driver is
    not as robust as it is on Mandriava 2007.1

    Other activities may allow you to just get by for personal use, and a
    show stopper for work.

    Hell, Mandriva may not even run on your hardware and I wonder if you
    want to have it at work and at home.

  8. Re: Mandriva general setup : END

    Bit Twister wrote:
    >
    >> Ok, here's what I meant : how do you *know* you can suspect Mandriva
    >> will do what I say I want? How do you *know* that you can be sure or not
    >> that linux is the proper OS for me?

    >
    > Throwing out more flame bait I see. Why, you ask;
    >
    > Your origional post has
    >
    > "Small but all important question : I feel mandriva seems the best
    > solution for my needs. "
    >
    > Q3 : This is for pro use, so getting this distro is a pretty serious matter.
    >
    >
    > More than a few times for "your pro use".
    > I pointed that out in that thread, and what did you respond with in
    > this thread:
    >
    > "Fortran dev, and printing, and latex. That's pretty much it.
    > Where does that come into play?


    Hey Bit Twister, GT is the light, we are moths. So here we are.

    You tried to answer, but GT is an idiot.

    What sticks out to me is that GT thinks the OS is relevant.
    Being the "pro" that GT is, GT would have asked the vendor
    of the "pro" tools what environment they support.
    eg. http://www.intel.com/support/perform.../cs-007814.htm
    But, being the "pro" GT is, he/she asked a newsgroup instead.

    Or, is GT not as "pro" as GT thinks perhaps.
    I liked these comments the most :

    "I am not a newbie" "I have gone into kernel stuff"
    "I use the printer HP color laserjet 2605dn"
    "I use windows for multimedia and linux for work mainly"

    It's all good fun (and Unruh cracked me up).

    I don't know about you, but I'm looking forward to GT's
    next post (perhaps I should get out more).

  9. Re: Mandriva general setup : END

    foo writes:

    > Bit Twister wrote:
    > Or, is GT not as "pro" as GT thinks perhaps.
    > I liked these comments the most :
    >
    > "I am not a newbie" "I have gone into kernel stuff"
    > "I use the printer HP color laserjet 2605dn"
    > "I use windows for multimedia and linux for work mainly"
    >
    > It's all good fun (and Unruh cracked me up).


    Do some google searches.
    He is not a troll.
    English is not his native tongue.
    I think he just didn't express himself well.

    Anyway, I think you should cut him a break.
    You don't know him.

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