New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva - Mandrake

This is a discussion on New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva - Mandrake ; On 7 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article , Blinky the Shark wrote: >Moe Trin wrote: >> "used to have"... how long ago? "This" installation? >I think so, yes. I think one day it just didn't happen. ...

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Thread: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

  1. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    On 7 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    , Blinky the Shark wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> "used to have"... how long ago? "This" installation?


    >I think so, yes. I think one day it just didn't happen.


    Well, that might be what happens when you're flailing around in a blood
    frenzy^W^W^W^while snacking on a surf-boarder or stupid swimmer

    >> rpm -qa | grep vim find out what vim packages are installed

    >
    >[blinky@thurston downloads]$ rpm -qa | grep vim


    OK

    >> rpm -qd vim-common find documentation for "this" package

    >
    >blinky@thurston downloads]$ rpm -qd vim-common


    Geez, Blinky - I didn't expect you to post all that.

    >> rpm -V `rpm -qa | grep vim` WATCH THOSE QUOTES!!!
    >>
    >> to run a package verification on those packages with the string 'vim' in
    >> the package name. Anything turn up?

    >
    >[blinky@thurston downloads]$ rpm -V `rpm -qa | grep vim`
    >.......T /usr/share/vim/gvimrc
    >S.5....T c /etc/vim/gvimrc
    >S.5....T c /etc/vim/vimrc
    >.......T /usr/share/vim/gvimrc


    AHAH!!! If you look at the man page for rpm under the section
    "VERIFICATION", you should see the explanation of those flags. The 'T'
    says the file timestamp has changed. That '/usr/share/vim/gvimrc' is
    listed twice suggests that two packages own the file/directory but
    both believe that (other than the timestamps) it's OK. But those
    other two are configuration files (the separate 'c' flag), and both
    the Size and md5 checksums have changed - which is a pretty strong
    indication that the contents of the files have changed from what the
    package author provided. So let's see who owns those files;

    rpm -qf /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc

    Next step - do you have 'mc' (midnight commander) installed? If so,
    find this package (perhaps vim-common-6.3-21mdk as a guess) on your
    distribution media. Use 'mc' to look inside this package and use the
    'copy' function ( on my version of mc) to copy the specific files
    in question to a safe place like /tmp and then compare these files.
    What's different? If you don't have 'mc' you can use rpm2cpio
    (as non-root - as I'm a lot less familiar with the command). I think
    you would want (this is all one line, and you probably should be in
    /tmp/ when you run it)

    rpm2cpio /path/to/vim-common-6.3-21mdk.i586.rpm | cpio -i -E gvimrc
    --no-absolute-filenames

    READ THE MAN PAGES BEFORE TRYING THIS. The result is that it should
    copy the rpm package, convert it to a CPIO archive on 'stdout', then
    extract the desired file to the current working directory (which is
    why you want to be non-root and in a directory you can write to without
    scaring the bejezus out of yourself. Repeat for the second strange file.
    Then compare the extracted files with the files on the system as above.

    The reason I'm doing it this way rather than just using the shotgun
    directly is that there may be other things in the package that you
    have changed, but that rpm -V doesn't look for. A classic example of
    this is /etc/passwd

    [compton ~]$ rpm -Vf /etc/passwd
    S.5....T c /etc/hosts.allow
    S.5....T c /etc/hosts.deny
    S.5....T c /etc/profile
    ...?..... c /etc/securetty
    S.5....T c /etc/services
    [compton ~]$

    Again - look at the man page. I told rpm to verify the package that
    owns /etc/passwd. That file didn't show up as an error, so either the
    file hasn't changed from the file created initially by the package
    author (fat freakin' chance, don't you think), or the package author
    knew that the file would change and there's no use in crying "Wolf"
    all the time. Your guess. Oh, and the ? flag on /etc/securetty is
    because I'm not running this as root, and thus don't have permission
    to view the contents of the file.

    Old guy

  2. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > On 7 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    >, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >>Moe Trin wrote:

    >
    >>> "used to have"... how long ago? "This" installation?

    >
    >>I think so, yes. I think one day it just didn't happen.

    >
    > Well, that might be what happens when you're flailing around in a blood
    > frenzy^W^W^W^while snacking on a surf-boarder or stupid swimmer


    Do I diss *your* lifestyle?

    >>> rpm -qa | grep vim find out what vim packages are installed

    >>
    >>[blinky@thurston downloads]$ rpm -qa | grep vim

    >
    > OK
    >
    >>> rpm -qd vim-common find documentation for "this" package

    >>
    >>blinky@thurston downloads]$ rpm -qd vim-common

    >
    > Geez, Blinky - I didn't expect you to post all that.


    Life is full of fun surprises. Did it tell you anything about the
    problem?

    >>> rpm -V `rpm -qa | grep vim` WATCH THOSE QUOTES!!!
    >>>
    >>> to run a package verification on those packages with the string 'vim' in
    >>> the package name. Anything turn up?

    >>
    >>[blinky@thurston downloads]$ rpm -V `rpm -qa | grep vim`
    >>.......T /usr/share/vim/gvimrc
    >>S.5....T c /etc/vim/gvimrc
    >>S.5....T c /etc/vim/vimrc
    >>.......T /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    >
    > AHAH!!! If you look at the man page for rpm under the section
    > "VERIFICATION", you should see the explanation of those flags. The 'T'
    > says the file timestamp has changed. That '/usr/share/vim/gvimrc' is
    > listed twice suggests that two packages own the file/directory but
    > both believe that (other than the timestamps) it's OK. But those
    > other two are configuration files (the separate 'c' flag), and both
    > the Size and md5 checksums have changed - which is a pretty strong
    > indication that the contents of the files have changed from what the
    > package author provided. So let's see who owns those files;
    >
    > rpm -qf /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc


    [blinky@thurston ~]$ rpm -qf /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc
    vim-common-6.3-21mdk
    vim-common-6.3-21mdk

    > Next step - do you have 'mc' (midnight commander) installed? If so,


    Yes. It keeps me from getting nostalgaic for Xtree.

    > find this package (perhaps vim-common-6.3-21mdk as a guess) on your


    Okay. BRB.

    > distribution media. Use 'mc' to look inside this package and use the
    > 'copy' function ( on my version of mc) to copy the specific files
    > in question to a safe place like /tmp and then compare these files.


    What files are in question, Moe? I'm confused. Isn't it normal to have
    both a vimrc -- and a gvimrc that contains the config stuff for the
    graphical version, the gvim? Surely you're not saying I have two
    /usr/share/vim/gvimrc files. Help me a little more here, if you would.



    > What's different? If you don't have 'mc' you can use rpm2cpio
    > (as non-root - as I'm a lot less familiar with the command). I think
    > you would want (this is all one line, and you probably should be in
    > /tmp/ when you run it)
    >
    > rpm2cpio /path/to/vim-common-6.3-21mdk.i586.rpm | cpio -i -E gvimrc
    > --no-absolute-filenames
    >
    > READ THE MAN PAGES BEFORE TRYING THIS. The result is that it should
    > copy the rpm package, convert it to a CPIO archive on 'stdout', then
    > extract the desired file to the current working directory (which is
    > why you want to be non-root and in a directory you can write to without
    > scaring the bejezus out of yourself. Repeat for the second strange file.
    > Then compare the extracted files with the files on the system as above.
    >
    > The reason I'm doing it this way rather than just using the shotgun
    > directly is that there may be other things in the package that you
    > have changed, but that rpm -V doesn't look for. A classic example of
    > this is /etc/passwd
    >
    > [compton ~]$ rpm -Vf /etc/passwd
    > S.5....T c /etc/hosts.allow
    > S.5....T c /etc/hosts.deny
    > S.5....T c /etc/profile
    > ..?..... c /etc/securetty
    > S.5....T c /etc/services
    > [compton ~]$
    >
    > Again - look at the man page. I told rpm to verify the package that
    > owns /etc/passwd. That file didn't show up as an error, so either the
    > file hasn't changed from the file created initially by the package
    > author (fat freakin' chance, don't you think), or the package author
    > knew that the file would change and there's no use in crying "Wolf"
    > all the time. Your guess. Oh, and the ? flag on /etc/securetty is
    > because I'm not running this as root, and thus don't have permission
    > to view the contents of the file.
    >
    > Old guy



    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups.
    Except in Thunderbird, which can't filter that well.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

  3. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Moe Trin wrote:

    > Next step - do you have 'mc' (midnight commander) installed? If so,
    > find this package (perhaps vim-common-6.3-21mdk as a guess) on your
    > distribution media. Use 'mc' to look inside this package and use the
    > 'copy' function ( on my version of mc) to copy the specific files
    > in question to a safe place like /tmp and then compare these files.


    THIS IS SUPPLEMENTARY to the initial response I just posted to your
    instructions. PROBABY BEST TO ANSWER HERE (so I'm not snipping the stuf
    below my response).

    On my HD, the two files contain these lines:

    /usr/share/vim/vimrc says:

    "Place your systemwide modification here.
    "/usr/share/vim/ files will be overwritten on update

    source /usr/share/vim/vimrc

    /usr/share/vim/gvimrc says:


    "Place your systemwide modification here.
    "/usr/share/vim/ files will be overwritten on update

    set guioptions+=m

    source /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    The guioptions command is what I was told to add to make the
    menus-that-don't-appear appear.

    On the DISTRO CD, they are exactly the same except for that guioptions
    command I added on HD version.



    > What's different? If you don't have 'mc' you can use rpm2cpio
    > (as non-root - as I'm a lot less familiar with the command). I think
    > you would want (this is all one line, and you probably should be in
    > /tmp/ when you run it)
    >
    > rpm2cpio /path/to/vim-common-6.3-21mdk.i586.rpm | cpio -i -E gvimrc
    > --no-absolute-filenames
    >
    > READ THE MAN PAGES BEFORE TRYING THIS. The result is that it should
    > copy the rpm package, convert it to a CPIO archive on 'stdout', then
    > extract the desired file to the current working directory (which is
    > why you want to be non-root and in a directory you can write to without
    > scaring the bejezus out of yourself. Repeat for the second strange file.
    > Then compare the extracted files with the files on the system as above.
    >
    > The reason I'm doing it this way rather than just using the shotgun
    > directly is that there may be other things in the package that you
    > have changed, but that rpm -V doesn't look for. A classic example of
    > this is /etc/passwd
    >
    > [compton ~]$ rpm -Vf /etc/passwd
    > S.5....T c /etc/hosts.allow
    > S.5....T c /etc/hosts.deny
    > S.5....T c /etc/profile
    > ..?..... c /etc/securetty
    > S.5....T c /etc/services
    > [compton ~]$
    >
    > Again - look at the man page. I told rpm to verify the package that
    > owns /etc/passwd. That file didn't show up as an error, so either the
    > file hasn't changed from the file created initially by the package
    > author (fat freakin' chance, don't you think), or the package author
    > knew that the file would change and there's no use in crying "Wolf"
    > all the time. Your guess. Oh, and the ? flag on /etc/securetty is
    > because I'm not running this as root, and thus don't have permission
    > to view the contents of the file.
    >
    > Old guy



    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups.
    Except in Thunderbird, which can't filter that well.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

  4. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    On 8 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    , Blinky the Shark wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >Do I diss *your* lifestyle?


    Sorry

    >>So let's see who owns those files;
    >>
    >> rpm -qf /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc


    >[blinky@thurston ~]$ rpm -qf /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc
    >vim-common-6.3-21mdk
    >vim-common-6.3-21mdk


    OK - vim-common owns the two files.

    >> Next step - do you have 'mc' (midnight commander) installed? If so,

    >
    >Yes. It keeps me from getting nostalgaic for Xtree.


    You complain about people dissing your lifestyle, and yet "Xtree????

    >> find this package (perhaps vim-common-6.3-21mdk as a guess) on your

    >
    >Okay. BRB.


    I take you are now. How's the water? The pool here is freezing, and
    it's worse when you get out and the water evaporates right off - chills
    you down near the dew point... which is somewhere around 50F. At least
    the forecast is that it will be warming back up.

    >> distribution media. Use 'mc' to look inside this package and use the
    >> 'copy' function ( on my version of mc) to copy the specific files
    >> in question to a safe place like /tmp and then compare these files.

    >
    >What files are in question, Moe? I'm confused. Isn't it normal to have
    >both a vimrc -- and a gvimrc that contains the config stuff for the
    >graphical version, the gvim?


    Sorry - this was referring to /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc and yes it
    is normal to have both, but in this case rpm is saying both files have
    changed. The question becomes what changed, (and the un-asked extension
    of that is "is the change significant?")

    >Surely you're not saying I have two /usr/share/vim/gvimrc files. Help me
    >a little more here, if you would.


    rpm -qf /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    If I'm reading this correctly, there is one file or directory (not having
    the package installed, I can't say which) but two packages "own" the
    file/directory.

    You continued in a followup:

    >THIS IS SUPPLEMENTARY to the initial response I just posted to your
    >instructions. PROBABY BEST TO ANSWER HERE (so I'm not snipping the stuf
    >below my response).


    Fine - I think I'm following OK

    >On my HD, the two files contain these lines:
    >
    >/usr/share/vim/vimrc says:
    >
    > "Place your systemwide modification here.
    > "/usr/share/vim/ files will be overwritten on update


    This is fairly common - they want your changes out of the way when you
    update the package.

    > source /usr/share/vim/vimrc


    NOT ACCEPTED - this has to be a typ0 as otherwise you have a circular
    reference - "in /usr/share/vim/vimrc", source "/usr/share/vim/vimrc" but
    that says to source "/usr/share/vim/vimrc" - you'll get dizzy doing that.

    >/usr/share/vim/gvimrc says:
    >
    > "Place your systemwide modification here.
    > "/usr/share/vim/ files will be overwritten on update
    >
    > set guioptions+=m
    >
    > source /usr/share/vim/gvimrc
    >
    >The guioptions command is what I was told to add to make the
    >menus-that-don't-appear appear.


    Something wrong here to - same error of a circular reference.

    >On the DISTRO CD, they are exactly the same except for that guioptions
    >command I added on HD version.


    Except that I only see a line with the string 'guioptions' in the
    /usr/share/vim/gvimrc file. Did I miss something in /usr/share/vim/vimrc?
    Note that the files that we want to be looking at _seem to be_
    /etc/vim/gvimrc and /etc/vim/vimrc - they're the ones that rpm is
    bitching about.

    If the only change is the 'set guioptions+=m' presumably added to both
    vimrc and gvimrc, then this is leading up a blind canyon. The documentation
    I was looking at had a /usr/share/doc/vim-common-6.3/gvimrc_example.vim
    that defines a lot of menus and menu options - that's what I was hoping
    to see as the problem.

    Old guy

  5. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > On 8 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    >, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >>Moe Trin wrote:

    >
    >>Do I diss *your* lifestyle?

    >
    > Sorry
    >
    >>>So let's see who owns those files;
    >>>
    >>> rpm -qf /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc

    >
    >>[blinky@thurston ~]$ rpm -qf /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc
    >>vim-common-6.3-21mdk
    >>vim-common-6.3-21mdk

    >
    > OK - vim-common owns the two files.
    >
    >>> Next step - do you have 'mc' (midnight commander) installed? If so,

    >>
    >>Yes. It keeps me from getting nostalgaic for Xtree.

    >
    > You complain about people dissing your lifestyle, and yet "Xtree????


    You missed the winkie up there in my lifestyle comment?

    Xtree was where it was at, back in the day. And Qedit.

    >>> find this package (perhaps vim-common-6.3-21mdk as a guess) on your

    >>
    >>Okay. BRB.

    >
    > I take you are now. How's the water? The pool here is freezing, and
    > it's worse when you get out and the water evaporates right off - chills
    > you down near the dew point... which is somewhere around 50F. At least
    > the forecast is that it will be warming back up.


    I'm used to ocean water. No problem.

    >>> distribution media. Use 'mc' to look inside this package and use the
    >>> 'copy' function ( on my version of mc) to copy the specific files
    >>> in question to a safe place like /tmp and then compare these files.

    >>
    >>What files are in question, Moe? I'm confused. Isn't it normal to have
    >>both a vimrc -- and a gvimrc that contains the config stuff for the
    >>graphical version, the gvim?

    >
    > Sorry - this was referring to /etc/vim/gvimrc /etc/vim/vimrc and yes it
    > is normal to have both, but in this case rpm is saying both files have
    > changed. The question becomes what changed, (and the un-asked extension
    > of that is "is the change significant?")
    >
    >>Surely you're not saying I have two /usr/share/vim/gvimrc files. Help me
    >>a little more here, if you would.

    >
    > rpm -qf /usr/share/vim/gvimrc


    [blinky@thurston ~]$ rpm -qf /usr/share/vim/gvimrc
    vim-common-6.3-21mdk
    vim-X11-6.3-21mdk

    Note that I just uninstalled those and reinstalled them.

    No change.

    > If I'm reading this correctly, there is one file or directory (not having
    > the package installed, I can't say which) but two packages "own" the
    > file/directory.
    >
    > You continued in a followup:
    >
    >>THIS IS SUPPLEMENTARY to the initial response I just posted to your
    >>instructions. PROBABY BEST TO ANSWER HERE (so I'm not snipping the stuf
    >>below my response).

    >
    > Fine - I think I'm following OK
    >
    >>On my HD, the two files contain these lines:
    >>
    >>/usr/share/vim/vimrc says:
    >>
    >> "Place your systemwide modification here.
    >> "/usr/share/vim/ files will be overwritten on update

    >
    > This is fairly common - they want your changes out of the way when you
    > update the package.
    >
    >> source /usr/share/vim/vimrc

    >
    > NOT ACCEPTED - this has to be a typ0 as otherwise you have a circular
    > reference - "in /usr/share/vim/vimrc", source "/usr/share/vim/vimrc" but
    > that says to source "/usr/share/vim/vimrc" - you'll get dizzy doing that.


    I wouldn't have hand-edited in (and thus typoed) a source command.

    >>/usr/share/vim/gvimrc says:
    >>
    >> "Place your systemwide modification here.
    >> "/usr/share/vim/ files will be overwritten on update
    >>
    >> set guioptions+=m
    >>
    >> source /usr/share/vim/gvimrc
    >>
    >>The guioptions command is what I was told to add to make the
    >>menus-that-don't-appear appear.

    >
    > Something wrong here to - same error of a circular reference.
    >
    >>On the DISTRO CD, they are exactly the same except for that guioptions
    >>command I added on HD version.

    >
    > Except that I only see a line with the string 'guioptions' in the
    > /usr/share/vim/gvimrc file. Did I miss something in /usr/share/vim/vimrc?
    > Note that the files that we want to be looking at _seem to be_
    > /etc/vim/gvimrc and /etc/vim/vimrc - they're the ones that rpm is
    > bitching about.


    I'll repaste what I copied out of both of those files; I put the content
    of all six files:

    /home/blinky/.gvimrc
    /home/blinky/.vimrc
    /etc/vim/gvimrc
    /etc/vim/vimrc
    /usr/share/vim/gvimrc
    /usr/share/vim/vimrc

    in a file and saved it so I would have absolutely
    virgin-before-any-changes-we-might-make copies.

    Here are the contents of all six of them, from that composite file,
    identified by the less command that preceeds each section of contents:



    less /home/blinky/.vimrc

    " formatting for news composition from slrn
    :nmap gg/^$V/^-- ${gq'^
    au BufNewFile,BufRead ~/.article,~/.followup :nmap gg/^$V/^-- ${gq`^

    ========================
    less /etc/vim/gvimr

    "Place your systemwide modification here.
    "/usr/share/vim/ files will be overwritten on update

    set guioptions+=m

    source /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    ========================
    less /etc/vim/vimrc

    "Place your systemwide modification here.
    "/usr/share/vim/ files will be overwritten on update

    source /usr/share/vim/vimrc

    abbr teh the
    abbr bnet http://blinkynet.net/

    ========================
    less /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    set guifontset=-*-fixed-medium-r-normal--14-*-*-*-c-*-*-*,-*-*-medium-r-normal--14-*-*-*-c-*-*-*,-*-*-medium-r-normal--14-*-*-*-m-*-*-*,*

    ========================
    less /usr/share/vim/vimrc


    " An example for a vimrc file.
    "
    " Maintainer: Bram Moolenaar
    " Last change: 2002 Sep 19
    "
    " To use it, copy it to
    " for Unix and OS/2: ~/.vimrc
    " for Amiga: s:.vimrc
    " for MS-DOS and Win32: $VIM\_vimrc
    " for OpenVMS: sys$login:.vimrc

    " When started as "evim", evim.vim will already have done these settings.
    if vrogname =~? "evim"
    finish
    endif

    " Use Vim settings, rather then Vi settings (much better!).
    " This must be first, because it changes other options as a side effect.
    set nocompatible


    " Make shift-insert work like in Xterm
    map
    map!


    " allow backspacing over everything in insert mode
    set backspace=indent,eol,start

    if has("vms")
    set nobackup " do not keep a backup file, use versions instead
    else
    set backup " keep a backup file
    endif
    set history=50 " keep 50 lines of command line history
    set ruler " show the cursor position all the time
    set noshowcmd " display incomplete commands
    set incsearch " do incremental searching

    " For Win32 GUI: remove 't' flag from 'guioptions': no tearoff menu entries
    " let &guioptions = substitute(&guioptions, "t", "", "g")

    " Don't use Ex mode, use Q for formatting
    map Q gq

    " This is an alternative that also works in block mode, but the deleted
    " text is lost and it only works for putting the current register.
    "vnoremap p "_dp

    " Switch syntax highlighting on, when the terminal has colors
    " Also switch on highlighting the last used search pattern.
    if &t_Co > 2 || has("gui_running")
    syntax on
    set hlsearch
    endif

    " Only do this part when compiled with support for autocommands.
    if has("autocmd")

    " Enable file type detection.
    " Use the default filetype settings, so that mail gets 'tw' set to 72,
    " 'cindent' is on in C files, etc.
    " Also load indent files, to automatically do language-dependent indenting.
    filetype plugin indent on

    " Put these in an autocmd group, so that we can delete them easily.
    augroup vimrcEx
    au!

    " For all text files set 'textwidth' to 78 characters.
    autocmd FileType text setlocal textwidth=78

    " When editing a file, always jump to the last known cursor position.
    " Don't do it when the position is invalid or when inside an event handler
    " (happens when dropping a file on gvim).
    autocmd BufReadPost *
    \ if line("'\"") > 0 && line("'\"") <= line("$") |
    \ exe "normal g`\"" |
    \ endif

    augroup END

    else

    set autoindent " always set autoindenting on

    endif " has("autocmd")



    > If the only change is the 'set guioptions+=m' presumably added to both
    > vimrc and gvimrc, then this is leading up a blind canyon. The documentation
    > I was looking at had a /usr/share/doc/vim-common-6.3/gvimrc_example.vim
    > that defines a lot of menus and menu options - that's what I was hoping
    > to see as the problem.


    I added that line (or found that it was already there) from the one or two
    responses I got in comp.editors. That's all they had to offer. Well,
    other than asking if the 'menu' feature was compiled in, which it was.


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups.
    Except in Thunderbird, which can't filter that well.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

  6. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    On 8 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    , Blinky the Shark wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> You complain about people dissing your lifestyle, and yet "Xtree????

    >
    >You missed the winkie up there in my lifestyle comment?
    >
    >Xtree was where it was at, back in the day. And Qedit.


    I had access to a couple of systems that were running Xtree Gold, and
    was ever so happy to see them carted out the door. I've never really
    been a fan of GUIs as they tend to limit what I can do.

    >> I take you are now. How's the water? The pool here is freezing, and
    >> it's worse when you get out and the water evaporates right off - chills
    >> you down near the dew point... which is somewhere around 50F. At least
    >> the forecast is that it will be warming back up.

    >
    >I'm used to ocean water. No problem.


    We've had a cold spell the last few weeks, and the pool is downright
    chilly - it was around 86F last night.

    >>>Surely you're not saying I have two /usr/share/vim/gvimrc files. Help me
    >>>a little more here, if you would.

    >>
    >> rpm -qf /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    >
    >[blinky@thurston ~]$ rpm -qf /usr/share/vim/gvimrc
    >vim-common-6.3-21mdk
    >vim-X11-6.3-21mdk


    Two packages are claiming ownership of this file. That's not unreasonable,
    but it tends to get confusing if one package gets updated, while the other
    doesn't. Such can happen in a security/bug-fix/improvement unless the
    package author[s] are really very tricky.

    >Note that I just uninstalled those and reinstalled them.
    >
    >No change.


    Then any menu change has to have been a individual thing in your home
    directory which wouldn't be covered by the package manager.

    >>>On my HD, the two files contain these lines:
    >>>
    >>>/usr/share/vim/vimrc says:

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>> source /usr/share/vim/vimrc

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >> NOT ACCEPTED - this has to be a typ0 as otherwise you have a circular
    >> reference - "in /usr/share/vim/vimrc", source "/usr/share/vim/vimrc" but
    >> that says to source "/usr/share/vim/vimrc" - you'll get dizzy doing that.

    >
    >I wouldn't have hand-edited in (and thus typoed) a source command.


    I don't know - the two lines above are certainly talking about the same
    file. But your post below is different.

    >>>/usr/share/vim/gvimrc says:

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>> source /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Again, we're talking the same file. See my confusion?

    >less /home/blinky/.vimrc


    OK I think -

    >less /etc/vim/gvimr


    1. missing 'c' at the end.
    2. this is not what you showed above - different file

    >less /etc/vim/vimrc


    Again - a different file from what you showed above.

    >


    What we're not seeing is the menu stuff. I found an older installation
    at work, using vim*5.7, and that has a file named
    '/usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim' which seems to be how your tool bars
    would get set up. I didn't see the file 'menu.vim' in your list of
    documentation on 7 Aug 2007 02:54:10 GMT. It's a fairly substantial
    file of ~740 lines/22.8kb.

    --------------
    " These menu commands create the default Vim menus.
    " You can also use this as a start for your own set of menus.
    " Note that ":amenu" is often used to make a menu work in all modes.
    "
    " Maintainer: Bram Moolenaar
    " Last change: 2000 Jun 16
    --------------

    Dinking around with this old system, I find

    [ruble /]$ rpm -ql `rpm -qa | grep vim` | grep menu.vim
    /usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/vim57/macros/shellmenu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/vim57/menu.vim
    [ruble /]$

    The two 'menu.vim' files are identical. Hmmm...

    [ruble /]$ strings /usr/X11R6/bin/gvim | grep menu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/vim57/menu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/vim57/menu.vim
    [ruble /]$

    so to me, that appears to be a hard coded file location.

    So - does 'strings `which gvim` | grep menu' (Watch the quotes!)
    return anything _useful_? (Here grep -c menu returns 80 lines, while the
    grep -c menu.vim only returns two items.) If so, does that file exist,
    and have various menu items in it?

    >I added that line (or found that it was already there) from the one or two
    >responses I got in comp.editors. That's all they had to offer. Well,
    >other than asking if the 'menu' feature was compiled in, which it was.


    I'm about out if ideas too. I do notice on the old system that the string
    'guioptions' is in a number of files - the the command

    grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/* 2>/dev/null
    grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/*/* 2>/dev/null

    and this may (or may not) provide some additional clues.

    Old guy

  7. VIM Menus: (was Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva)

    This exchange piqued my curiousity, so I looked around
    a bit. I shall ramble across findings to this point,
    and then leave it for Blinky to follow up on.

    1. Here may be a file .vimrc or .gvimrc in the home
    directory, for personal touches. There may also be
    a directory .vim or .gvim possibly containing a
    directory plugin.

    2. There may be files gvimrc and vimrc in /etc/vim.
    These should contain configuration settings that are
    intended to be system-wide. They also will contain
    a line such as
    source /usr/source/vim/gvimrc
    source /usr/source/vim/vimrc
    that will invoke configuration settings system-wide,
    that will be overwritten the next time you update to
    a new version of vim.

    $HOME/.[g]vimrc for personal stuff
    /etc/vim/[g]vimrc for permananent system stuff
    /usr/share/vim/[g]vimrc for system stuff that
    will change with every new version of vim.

    3. Files /usr/share/vim/*menu.vim are the menu
    files. Copies of these may exist elsewhere. The
    problem is, how to get them picked up by vim?

    In a *vimrc file, you can put a line such as
    source /usr/source/vim/menu.vim
    and I think that will pick up the menus in that
    file.

    Somewhere I ran across the notion that any file
    ending in .vim is a vim script that can be placed
    in a plugin directory. What are plugin directgories?
    I think they may be things like $HOME/.[g]vimrc/plugin
    /usr/share/vim/plugin and maybe some other places.
    One might be able to put the *menu.vim files in
    a plugin directory, and get them loaded that way.
    NOT tested.

    4. The gui/menus option have to be compiled into
    the version of vim running for menus to work. My
    version of vim does not have this stuff compiled in,
    so I have not tested anything.

    5. Blinky,
    In vim, enter :help or hit F1 or maybe invoke :tutor
    or start off with vimtutor at the command line, learn
    to navigate around in the user manual [hjkl keys,
    -] when the curson is beween |.....| bars, find
    the user guide and reference manual (they were
    somewhere in there), and read up on menus.

    Tuning Vim
    |usr_40.txt| Make new commands
    |usr_41.txt| Write a Vim script
    |usr_42.txt| Add new menus
    |usr_43.txt| Using filetypes

    cd to /usr/share/vim and /usr/share/vim/tutor and
    nose around a bit in that area when you have time.
    Interesting stuff.

    Cheers!

    jim b.


    --
    UNIX is not user-unfriendly; it merely
    expects users to be computer-friendly.

  8. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > On 8 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    >, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >>Moe Trin wrote:

    >
    >>> You complain about people dissing your lifestyle, and yet "Xtree????

    >>
    >>You missed the winkie up there in my lifestyle comment?
    >>
    >>Xtree was where it was at, back in the day. And Qedit.

    >
    > I had access to a couple of systems that were running Xtree Gold, and
    > was ever so happy to see them carted out the door. I've never really
    > been a fan of GUIs as they tend to limit what I can do.


    I remember Xtree Gold and Pro Gold (and Xtree) as being console apps.

    >>> I take you are now. How's the water? The pool here is freezing, and
    >>> it's worse when you get out and the water evaporates right off - chills
    >>> you down near the dew point... which is somewhere around 50F. At least
    >>> the forecast is that it will be warming back up.

    >>
    >>I'm used to ocean water. No problem.

    >
    > We've had a cold spell the last few weeks, and the pool is downright
    > chilly - it was around 86F last night.


    I live where the Alaska current from the north keeps the water cool.

    http://blinkynet.net/sharks/blinkysat.html

    The gray blot is the Los Angeles sprawl.

    Look here:

    http://www.stormsurf.com/buoy/mht/scal.html

    Click the Tanner Banks buoy (#46047).

    The water is 63F where I am now.

    >>>>Surely you're not saying I have two /usr/share/vim/gvimrc files. Help me
    >>>>a little more here, if you would.
    >>>
    >>> rpm -qf /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    >>
    >>[blinky@thurston ~]$ rpm -qf /usr/share/vim/gvimrc
    >>vim-common-6.3-21mdk
    >>vim-X11-6.3-21mdk

    >
    > Two packages are claiming ownership of this file. That's not unreasonable,
    > but it tends to get confusing if one package gets updated, while the other
    > doesn't. Such can happen in a security/bug-fix/improvement unless the
    > package author[s] are really very tricky.
    >
    >>Note that I just uninstalled those and reinstalled them.
    >>
    >>No change.

    >
    > Then any menu change has to have been a individual thing in your home
    > directory which wouldn't be covered by the package manager.


    The guioptions=+menu commands in the rc files in ~/ are still in place.

    >>>>On my HD, the two files contain these lines:
    >>>>
    >>>>/usr/share/vim/vimrc says:

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> source /usr/share/vim/vimrc

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>> NOT ACCEPTED - this has to be a typ0 as otherwise you have a circular
    >>> reference - "in /usr/share/vim/vimrc", source "/usr/share/vim/vimrc" but
    >>> that says to source "/usr/share/vim/vimrc" - you'll get dizzy doing that.

    >>
    >>I wouldn't have hand-edited in (and thus typoed) a source command.

    >
    > I don't know - the two lines above are certainly talking about the same
    > file. But your post below is different.
    >
    >>>>/usr/share/vim/gvimrc says:

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>>> source /usr/share/vim/gvimrc

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > Again, we're talking the same file. See my confusion?
    >
    >>less /home/blinky/.vimrc

    >
    > OK I think -
    >
    >>less /etc/vim/gvimrc

    >
    > 1. missing 'c' at the end.


    Paste-o.

    > 2. this is not what you showed above - different file
    >
    >>less /etc/vim/vimrc

    >
    > Again - a different file from what you showed above.


    What. I've always had both a vimrc and a gvimrc in /etc/vim/

    >>

    >
    > What we're not seeing is the menu stuff. I found an older installation
    > at work, using vim*5.7, and that has a file named
    > '/usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim' which seems to be how your tool bars
    > would get set up. I didn't see the file 'menu.vim' in your list of
    > documentation on 7 Aug 2007 02:54:10 GMT. It's a fairly substantial
    > file of ~740 lines/22.8kb.


    [blinky@thurston ~]$ less /usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim
    /usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim: No such file or directory

    > --------------
    > " These menu commands create the default Vim menus.
    > " You can also use this as a start for your own set of menus.
    > " Note that ":amenu" is often used to make a menu work in all modes.
    > "
    > " Maintainer: Bram Moolenaar
    > " Last change: 2000 Jun 16
    > --------------
    >
    > Dinking around with this old system, I find
    >
    > [ruble /]$ rpm -ql `rpm -qa | grep vim` | grep menu.vim
    > /usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim
    > /usr/share/vim/vim57/macros/shellmenu.vim
    > /usr/share/vim/vim57/menu.vim
    > [ruble /]$
    >
    > The two 'menu.vim' files are identical. Hmmm...
    >
    > [ruble /]$ strings /usr/X11R6/bin/gvim | grep menu.vim
    > /usr/share/vim/vim57/menu.vim
    > /usr/share/vim/vim57/menu.vim
    > [ruble /]$
    >
    > so to me, that appears to be a hard coded file location.
    >
    > So - does 'strings `which gvim` | grep menu' (Watch the quotes!)
    > return anything _useful_? (Here grep -c menu returns 80 lines, while the
    > grep -c menu.vim only returns two items.) If so, does that file exist,
    > and have various menu items in it?


    Not useful to *me*, but here it is:



    [blinky@thurston ~]$ strings `which gvim` | grep menu
    gtk_menu_get_type
    gtk_separator_menu_item_new
    gtk_menu_shell_insert
    gtk_menu_shell_append
    gtk_menu_item_new
    gtk_menu_item_get_type
    gtk_menu_set_accel_group
    gtk_menu_popup
    gtk_menu_shell_get_type
    gtk_menu_bar_new
    gtk_menu_new
    gtk_menu_item_new_with_mnemonic
    gtk_menu_shell_prepend
    gtk_tearoff_menu_item_new
    gtk_menu_bar_get_type
    gtk_im_multicontext_append_menuitems
    gtk_menu_item_set_submenu
    gnome_app_set_menus
    force_menu_update
    get_menu_index
    gui_mch_destroy_menu
    gui_mch_menu_hidden
    menu_is_menubar
    gui_update_menus
    gui_position_menu
    menu_is_toolbar
    gui_menu_cb
    ex_emenu
    gui_is_menu_shortcut
    ex_menutranslate
    current_menu
    get_menu_names
    gui_mch_draw_menubar
    menu_is_separator
    menu_is_popup
    gui_mch_menu_grey
    gui_mch_menu_set_tip
    gui_show_popupmenu
    wild_menu_showing
    sys_menu
    set_context_in_menu_cmd
    gui_find_menu
    gui_mch_add_menu_item
    ex_menu
    menu_name_skip
    gui_mch_show_popupmenu
    gui_create_initial_menus
    gui_mch_add_menu
    root_menu
    del_menutrans_vars
    get_menu_name
    gui_mch_enable_menu
    menutrans_
    amenu
    anoremenu
    aunmenu
    cmenu
    cnoremenu
    cunmenu
    imenu
    inoremenu
    iunmenu
    menutranslate
    nnoremenu
    nunmenu
    omenu
    onoremenu
    ounmenu
    tmenu
    tunmenu
    vmenu
    vnoremenu
    vunmenu
    E330: Menu path must not lead to a sub-menu
    E331: Must not add menu items directly to menu bar
    E332: Separator cannot be part of a menu path
    E333: Menu path must lead to a menu item
    E336: Menu path must lead to a sub-menu
    E337: Menu not found - check menu names
    langmenu
    menuitems
    $VIMRUNTIME/menu.vim
    vim-has-im-menu
    emenu ToolBar.FindHelp
    -menufont
    vim-menubar
    menu Help->Orphans for information
    menu Edit->Global Settings->Toggle Insert Mode
    menu Edit->Global Settings->Toggle Vi Compatible
    menu Help->Sponsor/Register for information
    +menu
    +wildmenu
    system menu file: "
    E327: Part of menu-item path is not sub-menu
    E329: No menu of that name
    get_menu_position
    [blinky@thurston ~]$



    >>I added that line (or found that it was already there) from the one or two
    >>responses I got in comp.editors. That's all they had to offer. Well,
    >>other than asking if the 'menu' feature was compiled in, which it was.

    >
    > I'm about out if ideas too. I do notice on the old system that the string
    > 'guioptions' is in a number of files - the the command
    >
    > grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/* 2>/dev/null
    > grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/*/* 2>/dev/null
    >
    > and this may (or may not) provide some additional clues.


    Are we directing output to /dev/null, there?


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups.
    Except in Thunderbird, which can't filter that well.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

  9. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > I remember Xtree Gold and Pro Gold (and Xtree) as being console apps.


    Check out http://www.xtreefanpage.org/ for a history, and links to
    currently available Xtree clones for both Windows and Linux.

    Adam

  10. Re: VIM Menus: (was Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva)

    Jim Beard wrote:
    > This exchange piqued my curiousity, so I looked around
    > a bit. I shall ramble across findings to this point,
    > and then leave it for Blinky to follow up on.
    >
    > 1. Here may be a file .vimrc or .gvimrc in the home
    > directory, for personal touches. There may also be
    > a directory .vim or .gvim possibly containing a
    > directory plugin.
    >
    > 2. There may be files gvimrc and vimrc in /etc/vim.
    > These should contain configuration settings that are
    > intended to be system-wide. They also will contain
    > a line such as
    > source /usr/source/vim/gvimrc
    > source /usr/source/vim/vimrc
    > that will invoke configuration settings system-wide,
    > that will be overwritten the next time you update to
    > a new version of vim.
    >
    > $HOME/.[g]vimrc for personal stuff
    > /etc/vim/[g]vimrc for permananent system stuff
    > /usr/share/vim/[g]vimrc for system stuff that
    > will change with every new version of vim.
    >
    > 3. Files /usr/share/vim/*menu.vim are the menu
    > files. Copies of these may exist elsewhere. The
    > problem is, how to get them picked up by vim?
    >
    > In a *vimrc file, you can put a line such as
    > source /usr/source/vim/menu.vim
    > and I think that will pick up the menus in that
    > file.
    >
    > Somewhere I ran across the notion that any file
    > ending in .vim is a vim script that can be placed
    > in a plugin directory. What are plugin directgories?
    > I think they may be things like $HOME/.[g]vimrc/plugin
    > /usr/share/vim/plugin and maybe some other places.
    > One might be able to put the *menu.vim files in
    > a plugin directory, and get them loaded that way.
    > NOT tested.
    >
    > 4. The gui/menus option have to be compiled into
    > the version of vim running for menus to work. My
    > version of vim does not have this stuff compiled in,
    > so I have not tested anything.
    >
    > 5. Blinky,
    > In vim, enter :help or hit F1 or maybe invoke :tutor
    > or start off with vimtutor at the command line, learn
    > to navigate around in the user manual [hjkl keys,
    >-] when the curson is beween |.....| bars, find
    > the user guide and reference manual (they were
    > somewhere in there), and read up on menus.


    Been there, done that, complied.

    I'll take this opportunity to thank you for the leg work and ideas, and
    will revisit the rc files and will look for *menu files.

    > Tuning Vim
    >|usr_40.txt| Make new commands
    >|usr_41.txt| Write a Vim script
    >|usr_42.txt| Add new menus
    >|usr_43.txt| Using filetypes
    >
    > cd to /usr/share/vim and /usr/share/vim/tutor and
    > nose around a bit in that area when you have time.
    > Interesting stuff.


    Thanks again.


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups.
    Except in Thunderbird, which can't filter that well.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

  11. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Adam wrote:
    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >> I remember Xtree Gold and Pro Gold (and Xtree) as being console apps.

    >
    > Check out http://www.xtreefanpage.org/ for a history, and links to
    > currently available Xtree clones for both Windows and Linux.


    Sounds like fun. Thanks!

    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups.
    Except in Thunderbird, which can't filter that well.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

  12. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Adam wrote:
    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >> I remember Xtree Gold and Pro Gold (and Xtree) as being console apps.

    >
    > Check out http://www.xtreefanpage.org/ for a history, and links to
    > currently available Xtree clones for both Windows and Linux.


    Just read through their history. Brought back a lot of memories,
    fershure fershure. I have Gold 2.5 on 3.5" floppies. I might have
    more elsewhere, including if I still have any 5.25"ers anywhere. It's
    fun that their default page looks like an Xnews display.

    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups.
    Except in Thunderbird, which can't filter that well.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

  13. Re: VIM Menus: (was Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva)

    On Thu, 09 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    , Jim Beard wrote:

    >This exchange piqued my curiousity, so I looked around
    >a bit. I shall ramble across findings to this point,
    >and then leave it for Blinky to follow up on.


    Appreciate it - I don't use gvim, and am running out of ideas.

    >1. Here may be a file .vimrc or .gvimrc in the home
    >directory, for personal touches. There may also be
    >a directory .vim or .gvim possibly containing a
    >directory plugin.


    Given that Blinky has reinstalled the main packages, I've a gut feeling
    you're onto it here.

    >2. There may be files gvimrc and vimrc in /etc/vim.
    >These should contain configuration settings that are
    >intended to be system-wide.


    In theory, these should be back to "stock" as he removed/installed the
    packages.

    >3. Files /usr/share/vim/*menu.vim are the menu
    >files. Copies of these may exist elsewhere. The
    >problem is, how to get them picked up by vim?


    I suspect they're hard coded in the binary. I noted

    [ruble /]$ strings /usr/X11R6/bin/gvim | grep menu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/vim57/menu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/vim57/menu.vim
    [ruble /]$

    but that is an ancient version from 1999. Blinky seems to have found
    a reference to "$VIMRUNTIME/menu.vim" which may point to them.

    Old guy

  14. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    On 9 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    , Blinky the Shark wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> We've had a cold spell the last few weeks, and the pool is downright
    >> chilly - it was around 86F last night.

    >
    >I live where the Alaska current from the north keeps the water cool.


    Yeah, I once tried the water at "Ocean Beach" on the West edge of San
    Francisco.

    >The water is 63F where I am now.


    Like I said - below freezing

    >> I found an older installation at work, using vim*5.7, and that has a
    >> file named '/usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim' which seems to be how
    >> your tool bars would get set up.


    >[blinky@thurston ~]$ less /usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim
    >/usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim: No such file or directory


    Not surprising - you are using version 6.3, not 5.7 (from 1999).

    >> So - does 'strings `which gvim` | grep menu' (Watch the quotes!)
    >> return anything _useful_?


    >Not useful to *me*, but here it is:


    >$VIMRUNTIME/menu.vim


    Where is that file - ('locate menu.vim' should return something).
    Obviously "$VIMRUNTIME" is an environmental variable within the binary
    and is not likely to be valid outside the binary ('echo $VIMRUNTIME'
    will likely return nothing).

    >> grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/* 2>/dev/null
    >> grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/*/* 2>/dev/null
    >>
    >> and this may (or may not) provide some additional clues.

    >
    >Are we directing output to /dev/null, there?


    man bash and look for REDIRECTION. The '2' is 'stderr' and in this
    case would hide a bunch of lines that "/usr/share/vim/FOO is a
    directory". Try the command with and without the '2>/dev/null' and
    see the difference.

    Old guy


  15. Re: [OT] New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >> Check out http://www.xtreefanpage.org/ for a history, and links to
    >> currently available Xtree clones for both Windows and Linux.

    >
    > Just read through their history. Brought back a lot of memories,
    > fershure fershure. I have Gold 2.5 on 3.5" floppies. I might have
    > more elsewhere, including if I still have any 5.25"ers anywhere. It's
    > fun that their default page looks like an Xnews display.


    I gave the page's author XTree v2.02Eq, which came on a 5.25" floppy
    bundled with MS DOS 3.1 on the Epson Equity II and III (XT clones ca.
    1986). It was "customized" for that computer by checking the BIOS for
    "EPSON" and aborting if not found. (Zapping one byte, "RET conditional"
    (if "EPSON" found) to "RET always" took care of that!)

    If you ever have to do anything on a Windows box, check out ZTree, which
    I find invaluable. Of the Linux clones listed there, unixtree is the
    most functional but I wish it had the power of ZTree.

    I only have a few 5.25" floppies. I have a dozen or two 8" floppies,
    though, most with CP/M programs.

    Another Adam

  16. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Moe Trin wrote:
    > On 9 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    >, Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >>Moe Trin wrote:

    >
    >>> We've had a cold spell the last few weeks, and the pool is downright
    >>> chilly - it was around 86F last night.

    >>
    >>I live where the Alaska current from the north keeps the water cool.

    >
    > Yeah, I once tried the water at "Ocean Beach" on the West edge of San
    > Francisco.
    >
    >>The water is 63F where I am now.

    >
    > Like I said - below freezing
    >
    >>> I found an older installation at work, using vim*5.7, and that has a
    >>> file named '/usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim' which seems to be how
    >>> your tool bars would get set up.

    >
    >>[blinky@thurston ~]$ less /usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim
    >>/usr/doc/vim-common-5.7/menu.vim: No such file or directory

    >
    > Not surprising - you are using version 6.3, not 5.7 (from 1999).
    >
    >>> So - does 'strings `which gvim` | grep menu' (Watch the quotes!)
    >>> return anything _useful_?

    >
    >>Not useful to *me*, but here it is:

    >
    >>$VIMRUNTIME/menu.vim

    >
    > Where is that file - ('locate menu.vim' should return something).


    [blinky@thurston macros]$ locate menu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/delmenu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/macros/shellmenu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/menu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/syntax/icemenu.vim
    /usr/share/vim/synmenu.vim

    > Obviously "$VIMRUNTIME" is an environmental variable within the binary
    > and is not likely to be valid outside the binary ('echo $VIMRUNTIME'
    > will likely return nothing).
    >
    >>> grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/* 2>/dev/null
    >>> grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/*/* 2>/dev/null
    >>>
    >>> and this may (or may not) provide some additional clues.

    >>
    >>Are we directing output to /dev/null, there?

    >
    > man bash and look for REDIRECTION. The '2' is 'stderr' and in this
    > case would hide a bunch of lines that "/usr/share/vim/FOO is a
    > directory". Try the command with and without the '2>/dev/null' and
    > see the difference.


    [blinky@thurston macros]$ grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/* 2>/dev/null
    /usr/share/vim/doc/debugger.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/eval.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/gui.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/gui.txt.doc
    /usr/share/vim/doc/gui_x11.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/options.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/quickref.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/starting.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/tags
    /usr/share/vim/doc/todo.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/usr_09.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/usr_25.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/usr_42.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/version5.txt
    /usr/share/vim/doc/version5.txt.doc
    /usr/share/vim/doc/version6.txt
    /usr/share/vim/syntax/vim.vim

    [blinky@thurston macros]$ grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/*/* 2>/dev/null
    [blinky@thurston macros]$


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups.
    Except in Thunderbird, which can't filter that well.
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

  17. Re: [OT] New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    Here in alt.os.linux.mandrake,
    Adam spake unto us, saying:

    >If you ever have to do anything on a Windows box, check out ZTree, which
    >I find invaluable. Of the Linux clones listed there, unixtree is the
    >most functional but I wish it had the power of ZTree.


    I used an XTree clone called utree on Linux a long long time ago.

    But I got better. :-)

    Seriously, though, ZTree is a *very* nice XTree clone. I use it under
    Windows and OS/2 here, and it's not too bad (though I'm using Midnight
    Commander more and more on the OS/2 side of life).

    On Linux and Solaris, I've gone with Midnight Commander (a nice Norton
    Commander clone), mainly because it also does ftp, it handles tarballs
    very gracefully, and it comes with a nifty text editor which I prefer
    to vim and NEdit for simple edits.

    --
    -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA
    Mainframe/Unix bit twiddler by day, OS/2+Linux+DOS hobbyist by night.
    WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

  18. Re: New Readers: Posting FAQ for a.o.l.mandrake/mandriva

    On 12 Aug 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake, in article
    , Blinky the Shark wrote:

    >Moe Trin wrote:


    >> Where is that file - ('locate menu.vim' should return something).

    >
    >[blinky@thurston macros]$ locate menu.vim
    >/usr/share/vim/delmenu.vim
    >/usr/share/vim/macros/shellmenu.vim
    >/usr/share/vim/menu.vim
    >/usr/share/vim/syntax/icemenu.vim
    >/usr/share/vim/synmenu.vim


    I'd be looking in those files - the '/usr/share/vim/menu.vim' is
    _probably_ what you are looking for, but I really can't say one way or
    the other as I don't use gvim (or menus), and the only box I have with
    gvim even installed is ancient.

    >>>> grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/* 2>/dev/null
    >>>> grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/*/* 2>/dev/null
    >>>>
    >>>> and this may (or may not) provide some additional clues.


    >[blinky@thurston macros]$ grep -l guioptions /usr/share/vim/*/* 2>/dev/null


    You'd have to look in each of those files to see what 'guioptions' is
    being (ab)used for.

    Old guy

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