Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help - Mandrake

This is a discussion on Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help - Mandrake ; Hey Whiskers. With regard to this post... ------------------------------------------- The easiest arrangement, in my opinion, is to have an independent 'boot manager' in the MBR and put the 'boot loader' for each operating system into the relevent / or /boot partition. ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

  1. Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    Hey Whiskers. With regard to this post...

    -------------------------------------------

    The easiest arrangement, in my opinion, is to have an independent 'boot
    manager' in the MBR and put the 'boot loader' for each operating system
    into the relevent / or /boot partition. I currently use "GAG"
    ; "Smart Boot Manager" is another
    good one . Both those are free.

    ----------------------------------------

    BTW, I couldn't agree more with both you and Robert Riches.

    Currently I'm adding W2K Pro. Problem is I'd like to keep both W98SE and
    DOS 6.0 on too.

    As you know all of these have to be in a primary partition. I was using
    OS/2 bootmanager to assign the C drive and hide the other primary.

    Problem is Boot Manager uses a primary itself and now I need that.

    So I tired Gag and although it supposed to be able to do this I can't
    get it to work properly. It turns out I had tried Gag previously but
    didn't remember until I saw the interface.

    Smart Boot manager likewise fails.

    They both fail on the M$ stuff which need C drive assignment and hiding
    of the other primaries.

    Before I go any further I'd like to use one of those. Any idea why it's
    not working for me? I mean I've tried it on a floppy, set the active,
    hide the other two but it won't find the partition and boot it. It will
    boot my Linux on an extended with no problem.

    Now if that won't work out I'm considering using the W2K NT boot
    selector OR simply set up lilo on my Linux root to handle this.

    Using Lilo like that would work like so (I've done this before to boot
    a second drive and remapping them with the 0x81, etc stuff)

    Vpart Boots =======> Linux Root Lilo which boots ======>

    Either Linux and by using Master Boot option in lilo.conf I could then
    select:

    W2K
    W98SE
    DOS

    As you know these bootloaders are very fast so we are only talking a 2
    second delay.

    So what do you guys think? I just started studying the NT loader so
    it's not out of the picture but I have a gut feeling doing it with Lilo
    would be better.


  2. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On 2006-11-13, Ron Gibson wrote:
    > Hey Whiskers. With regard to this post...
    >
    > -------------------------------------------
    >
    > The easiest arrangement, in my opinion, is to have an independent 'boot
    > manager' in the MBR and put the 'boot loader' for each operating system
    > into the relevent / or /boot partition. I currently use "GAG"
    > ; "Smart Boot Manager" is another
    > good one . Both those are free.
    >
    > ----------------------------------------
    >
    > BTW, I couldn't agree more with both you and Robert Riches.
    >
    > Currently I'm adding W2K Pro. Problem is I'd like to keep both W98SE and
    > DOS 6.0 on too.


    Isn't MS-DOS 6.* an intrinsic part of Win9* anyway?

    > As you know all of these have to be in a primary partition. I was using
    > OS/2 bootmanager to assign the C drive and hide the other primary.
    >
    > Problem is Boot Manager uses a primary itself and now I need that.
    >
    > So I tired Gag and although it supposed to be able to do this I can't
    > get it to work properly. It turns out I had tried Gag previously but
    > didn't remember until I saw the interface.


    Does the 'hide primary partitions' setting not have the desired effect?
    I've never used GAG with any MS OS other than XP, so I'm not the best
    person to ask about this. You may have to set-up the booting of your
    DOS or whatever /before/ you 'hide the primary partitions', if the 'hide'
    setting makes them invisible even from the GAG set-up interface ....

    > Smart Boot manager likewise fails.
    >
    > They both fail on the M$ stuff which need C drive assignment and hiding
    > of the other primaries.


    snip

    As your questions seem to relate to MS OSs, perhaps a Linux group isn't
    the best place to be asking )

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  3. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:39:15 -0500, Whiskers wrote:

    > On 2006-11-13, Ron Gibson wrote:
    >> Hey Whiskers. With regard to this post...
    >> Currently I'm adding W2K Pro. Problem is I'd like to keep both W98SE and
    >> DOS 6.0 on too.

    > Isn't MS-DOS 6.* an intrinsic part of Win9* anyway?


    I don't know about 2k, but with xp, when you install it (either on
    a second primary partition, or on an extended partition), it modifies
    the boot loader of the first primary partition (i.e. the w98/dos6 partition).
    Adds ntldr, boot.ini, etc, to C:.

    When booting 98, you need all other primary partitions hidden.
    When booting xp, you must not hide the w98/dos6 partition.
    Don't know about 2k.
    Linux doesn't care.

    Regards, Dave Hodgins

    --
    Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
    (nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
    use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

  4. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On Tuesday 14 November 2006 17:39, Whiskers stood up and addressed the
    masses in /alt.os.linux.mandrake/ as follows...:

    > Isn't MS-DOS 6.* an intrinsic part of Win9* anyway?


    No, Windows 95, 98 and ME used a built-in and welded-solid[1] version of DOS
    which during the Win95 beta stages was labeled MS-DOS 7.00. They later on
    changed the version info in /COMMAND.COM/ to report Windows 4.x.

    __
    [1] Just so you wouldn't or couldn't use DR-DOS, IBM PC-DOS, FreeDOS or
    whatever other version... ;-)

    --
    With kind regards,

    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  5. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help


    "Whiskers" wrote in message
    news:j28p24-mq7.ln1@ID-107770.user.individual.net...
    > On 2006-11-13, Ron Gibson wrote:
    > > Hey Whiskers. With regard to this post...
    > >
    > > -------------------------------------------
    > >
    > > The easiest arrangement, in my opinion, is to have an independent 'boot
    > > manager' in the MBR and put the 'boot loader' for each operating system
    > > into the relevent / or /boot partition. I currently use "GAG"
    > > ; "Smart Boot Manager" is another
    > > good one . Both those are

    free.
    > >
    > > ----------------------------------------
    > >
    > > BTW, I couldn't agree more with both you and Robert Riches.
    > >
    > > Currently I'm adding W2K Pro. Problem is I'd like to keep both W98SE and
    > > DOS 6.0 on too.

    >
    > Isn't MS-DOS 6.* an intrinsic part of Win9* anyway?



    Msdos.sys on Windows 98 might look like this.

    [Paths]
    WinDir=C:\MSDOS7
    WinBootDir=C:\MSDOS7
    [Options]
    LOGO=0
    BootGUI=0

    You can by editing the file make it come up with the menu that allows you to
    choose safe mode, command prompt, previous operating system etc. There by if
    you have a menu in Lilo to boot The Windows it can then be set to give you
    more options straight away, rather than having to keep hitting the F8 key
    like crazy. Win 9x needs a primary partition to boot from I'm not sure NT
    and it's derivatives do. There is a difference between 'boot' partition and
    'system partition' check out boot.ini files.

    Even in Linux boot and system partitions can be the same or be seperate
    entities.




    >
    > > As you know all of these have to be in a primary partition. I was using
    > > OS/2 bootmanager to assign the C drive and hide the other primary.
    > >
    > > Problem is Boot Manager uses a primary itself and now I need that.
    > >
    > > So I tired Gag and although it supposed to be able to do this I can't
    > > get it to work properly. It turns out I had tried Gag previously but
    > > didn't remember until I saw the interface.

    >
    > Does the 'hide primary partitions' setting not have the desired effect?
    > I've never used GAG with any MS OS other than XP, so I'm not the best
    > person to ask about this. You may have to set-up the booting of your
    > DOS or whatever /before/ you 'hide the primary partitions', if the 'hide'
    > setting makes them invisible even from the GAG set-up interface ....
    >
    > > Smart Boot manager likewise fails.
    > >
    > > They both fail on the M$ stuff which need C drive assignment and hiding
    > > of the other primaries.

    >
    > snip
    >
    > As your questions seem to relate to MS OSs, perhaps a Linux group isn't
    > the best place to be asking )
    >
    > --
    > -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    > -- Whiskers
    > -- ~~~~~~~~~~


    Lilo doesn't care what other boot loaders are actuated after it has
    correctly initialised itself.

    Andrew Ed



  6. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:39:15 +0000, Whiskers wrote:

    >> So I tired Gag and although it supposed to be able to do this I can't
    >> get it to work properly. It turns out I had tried Gag previously but
    >> didn't remember until I saw the interface.


    > Does the 'hide primary partitions' setting not have the desired effect?
    > I've never used GAG with any MS OS other than XP, so I'm not the best
    > person to ask about this. You may have to set-up the booting of your
    > DOS or whatever /before/ you 'hide the primary partitions', if the 'hide'
    > setting makes them invisible even from the GAG set-up interface ....


    >> Smart Boot manager likewise fails.


    >> They both fail on the M$ stuff which need C drive assignment and hiding
    >> of the other primaries.


    > As your questions seem to relate to MS OSs, perhaps a Linux group
    > isn't the best place to be asking )


    I'm not sure where the best place to ask is as I'm getting a real
    conflicting mix of answers some of which don't make sense.

    Forget windoze NG's. I've been lurking there and there isn't the kind
    of technical posters needed. Google searches turn up with trivial
    answers also. One NG that used to have some experts on these type of
    issues I've yet to try, a hd.storage newsgroup.

    I also tried adding the two to a lilo install on /dev/hde13 to points
    back /dev/hde1 and /dev/hde2 for W2K and DOS. I get the same results.
    I've tried hiding and unhiding both partitions and even changing the
    logical extended volume ID.

    The only thing I've yet to try is some voodoo answer for using the NT
    loader that says install OS's in the order...

    DOS, W98, W2K "physically" on the partition, as in /dev/hde1, dev/hde2.
    /dev/hde3

    Which doesn't make a bit of sense to me the way I'm doing it. I simply
    select the primary I want to boot as active and hide the other two.

    I've been doing this for years, I mean that's only worked with every
    other OS imaginable for over 10 years.

    So yeah, in partially answering your question I'm grasping at straws
    here.

  7. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:07:23 +0000, Andrew Ed wrote:

    >> Isn't MS-DOS 6.* an intrinsic part of Win9* anyway?


    > Msdos.sys on Windows 98 might look like this.
    >
    > [Paths]
    > WinDir=C:\MSDOS7
    > WinBootDir=C:\MSDOS7
    > [Options]
    > LOGO=0
    > BootGUI=0


    Peering real hard...

    Thanx Ed.

    > like crazy. Win 9x needs a primary partition to boot from I'm not sure
    > NT and it's derivatives do. There is a difference between 'boot'
    > partition and 'system partition' check out boot.ini files.


    Yeah see what happens is that NT derivatives have a lot of flexibility
    however it's not in M$'s interest to document it all. Likewise most M$
    only users never have occasion to do anything "adventursome".

    Forget the so called help.

    So I'm stumbling around like a blind man here.

    I have a few radical approaches to try yet but don't feel safe unless I
    do a complete system backup. It's gonna take at least until tomorrow
    before I can add anything or announce problem solved.

    BTW, the easiest solution would be just to add it to lilo on /dev/hde13
    in terms of keystrokes.

  8. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:20:22 -0500, David W. Hodgins wrote:

    > I don't know about 2k, but with xp, when you install it (either on
    > a second primary partition, or on an extended partition), it modifies
    > the boot loader of the first primary partition (i.e. the w98/dos6 partition).
    > Adds ntldr, boot.ini, etc, to C:.


    > When booting 98, you need all other primary partitions hidden.
    > When booting xp, you must not hide the w98/dos6 partition.
    > Don't know about 2k.
    > Linux doesn't care.


    Oh great. I needed this clarified. I saw it hinted to but never fully
    explained like this.

    Well I've got some additional things to try now.

    Odd thing that's really bugging me is that nothing I do stops W2K (or
    linux) from booting. It's just ol' DOS that won't boot.

    What I'm really trying to do is get W98 and W2K side by side but
    figured I'd work with just DOS for now as it's so small and easy to
    manipulate.

    If all else fails I'll just leave my second machine with W98 on it. But
    right now I'm like a dog with a new bone and don't want to give it up
    until I'm satisfied.

    There are certain utilities, etc, that need the system files from these
    other OS's that come across my little work bench.

    I could also burn boot images and entire directory structures to CD or
    DVD.

    But I just hate to get whipped by a problem like this. So I'm not giving
    up just yet.

  9. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    > The only thing I've yet to try is some voodoo answer for using the NT
    > loader that says install OS's in the order...


    If you install DOS, as in V6.22 or earlier, you can then install Win 9x
    (certainly upgrade edition even of 95 to upgrade editions of 98SE) and tell
    it to keep your original operating system, you get a menu to choose which
    one you want! You then install W2K and again tell it you want to keep your
    existing OS's and it then creates a 'NT' bootloader menu to do exactly the
    same thing.

    You then install Linux which installs Lilo or Grub and guess what it will
    enable a menu to boot between Linux and Windows. That may be the easiest
    way to achieve it on a blank system, tho' not the tidiest. However, I guess
    you have some OS's already installed so you can start the process again or
    look in to ways to change boot.ini and msdos.sys files to do what you want.
    Getting MDK to run afterwards will probably be the easiest bit. It's 10
    years since I did msdos.sys on a courseand i can't find my old file from
    then, if you haven't already here is a useful URL for the DOS side of
    things.

    http://www.computerhope.com/msdossys.htm

    There are similar items about for boot.ini, MS's site isn't the best on the
    subject.


    > DOS, W98, W2K "physically" on the partition, as in /dev/hde1, dev/hde2.
    > /dev/hde3
    >
    > Which doesn't make a bit of sense to me the way I'm doing it. I simply
    > select the primary I want to boot as active and hide the other two.


    If you set it up in the right manner they will all be able to see the FAT16
    partition/s, Everything except DOS the FAT32 ( beyond C, Win 98 no NTFS or
    Linux, W2K all except Linux.
    Linux = Everything!
    No particular need to hide any partitions, just be careful not to format
    drives from DOS that it assigns drive letters to but appear unformatted.


    Have you considered using VMware server under MDK and running them
    virtualized instead?

    Andrew Ed



  10. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On 2006-11-15, Ron Gibson wrote:
    > On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:39:15 +0000, Whiskers wrote:


    snip

    > I'm not sure where the best place to ask is as I'm getting a real
    > conflicting mix of answers some of which don't make sense.
    >
    > Forget windoze NG's. I've been lurking there and there isn't the kind
    > of technical posters needed. Google searches turn up with trivial
    > answers also. One NG that used to have some experts on these type of
    > issues I've yet to try, a hd.storage newsgroup.


    snip

    I'd have thought that there would be something in the 'Microsoft Knowledge
    Base' about dual-booting two or more MS OSs on one machine. Once they are
    working hoppily together, then you an start adding Linux(es) to the mix.

    Another approach, is to run at least some of the OSs on 'virtual machines'
    inside your favoured 'host system'. DOS and older versions of Windows
    should run quite adequately installed as 'guest systems' in VMWare or some
    such, within Linux, on modern hardware.

    If you're really interested in running particular applications, rather
    than various OSs for their own sakes, then 'Wine', 'Cedega', 'Crossover
    Office', 'ReactOS', 'dosemu', and so on, may be worth considering.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  11. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:50:17 +0000, Andrew Ed wrote:

    --------------------------------------------
    Google Keywords: multiboot, DOS, W2K, Windows 2000, Linux, Boot order,
    multios
    -------------------------------------------

    > There are similar items about for boot.ini, MS's site isn't the best
    > on the subject.


    Boy is that an understatement.

    >> DOS, W98, W2K "physically" on the partition, as in /dev/hde1, dev/hde2.
    >> /dev/hde3


    >> Which doesn't make a bit of sense to me the way I'm doing it. I simply
    >> select the primary I want to boot as active and hide the other two.


    > If you set it up in the right manner they will all be able to see the FAT16
    > partition/s, Everything except DOS the FAT32 ( beyond C, Win 98 no NTFS or
    > Linux, W2K all except Linux.
    > Linux = Everything!


    Well it turns out the crazy thing was what the problem was. I may have
    confused some people with /dev/hde as that's my first HD as I use an
    offboard controller. From now own I'll use /dev/hda so anyone googling
    will more easily understand the problem and solution.

    Also note this was a problem with two parts. Here is the solution to
    part one, getting DOS to boot...

    Before I just made the change I had...

    OS/2 Boot Manager
    W2K
    DOS 6.2

    This will not work on my system. I got a hint from the suggestion to use
    the order DOS, W98, W2K but wasn't real optimistic as DOS never has
    occupied cylinder 1 (or 2??) or so I thought. In fact it must have but
    since I never had a problem I just didn't pay close enough attention.

    I did a system backup and used Partiton Magic and Drive Image to
    rearrange the hard drive so that I now have...

    OS/2 Boot Manager
    DOS
    W2K

    as the physical layout - IOW, I move W2K up and DOS down. However Linux
    fdisk reports...

    /dev/hda1 471 9729 74372917+ f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
    /dev/hda2 * 34 470 3510202+ b W95 FAT32
    /dev/hda3 2 33 257040 16 Hidden FAT16
    /dev/hda4 1 1 8001 a OS/2 Boot Manager

    So you see DOS does not physically start in cylinder 1, and is assigned
    a higher partition but yet starts on cylinder 2. Boot manager starts on
    cylinder 1 (where cylinder 1 is the first physical cylinder - Some
    conventions call that cylinder 0).

    Also the traditional wisdom has that an M$ OS has to be installed on the
    first *visible* partition on the first physical drive so I didn't have a
    lot of confidence in that solution mentioned BUT the damnit it worked!

    It should not have made a difference if other primaries were hidden.

    But I'm not gonna complain.

    But I'm not done yet as I'm thinking about a long term solution of
    adding W98 and removing BootManager. But I will wait in order to see
    which arrangement serves me best. But solving this first was getting by a
    MAJOR roadblock.

    > No particular need to hide any partitions, just be careful not to
    > format drives from DOS that it assigns drive letters to but appear
    > unformatted.


    > Have you considered using VMware server under MDK and running them
    > virtualized instead?


    Naw, I'd rather "trick out" the HD :-)

    But this time the joke was on me I guess :-(

    PS: Thanx for all the input folks. I sure needed more info on handling
    boot.ini as the information is difficult to find, especially for a
    complex setup like this. It *will* be put to good use.

  12. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:15:56 +0000, Whiskers wrote:

    >> Forget windoze NG's. I've been lurking there and there isn't the kind
    >> of technical posters needed. Google searches turn up with trivial
    >> answers also. One NG that used to have some experts on these type of
    >> issues I've yet to try, a hd.storage newsgroup.


    > I'd have thought that there would be something in the 'Microsoft Knowledge
    > Base' about dual-booting two or more MS OSs on one machine. Once they are
    > working happily together, then you an start adding Linux(es) to the

    mix.

    I explained a solution in another NG so I won't repeat that.

    Now that I got it going W2K exists happily along aside DOS and puts
    that partition at the end of everything, so need to even hide it.

    Also both my little MBR bootloader (similar to Gag) and lilo on
    /dev/hda13 both happily handle the boot process.

    I always give myself at least two ways in, in case something goes wrong.

    Now about the only decision I have is whether to replace that DOS with
    W98 but right now I'm thinking I won't as what I really need on occasion
    is a DOS 6 boot disk and a few other things good ol' DOS does. I can make
    a W98 bootdisk with W2K as it retained those files needed when I did an
    upgrade. I think I'll also look into FreeDOS or whatever. I Caldera has
    a FAT32 driver for it's DOS. That would be nice.

    But you know I'm a little sentimental and it will take me a while to
    decide. I can always leave W98 on the other machine.

    It took me a year after I stopped using OS/2 to bite the bullet and
    finally remove it :-)

    Right now Bootmanager has also become expendable freeing a primary
    partition.

    So I guess it was a good day at the office :-)

  13. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    > Now about the only decision I have is whether to replace that DOS with
    > W98 but right now I'm thinking I won't as what I really need on occasion
    > is a DOS 6 boot disk and a few other things good ol' DOS does. I can make
    > a W98 bootdisk with W2K as it retained those files needed when I did an
    > upgrade.


    A quick search for boot disks on google will find you a place to obtain
    images for boot floppies for many OS's

    A search for:-
    boot disk floppy image

    Results 1 - 10 of about 1,370,000 for boot disk floppy image. (0.30
    seconds)
    ..
    If you end up removing your floppy drive then burn it to a CD using the
    image and select create bootable CD in your writing software.


    > But you know I'm a little sentimental and it will take me a while to
    > decide. I can always leave W98 on the other machine.


    You should be able to install Win98 and still keep DOS, see tricks using
    msdos.sys

    > It took me a year after I stopped using OS/2 to bite the bullet and
    > finally remove it :-)


    I was reconsidering Installing OS/2 Warp 3 or Warp 4 server in a virtual
    machine so I didn't forget what it was like as I uninstalled it in 2000 and
    occassionally regret it.


    > So I guess it was a good day at the office :-)


    )

    Andrew Ed



  14. Re: Pinging Whiskers - Multiboot Help

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:05:40 +0000, Andrew Ed wrote:

    > Results 1 - 10 of about 1,370,000 for boot disk floppy image. (0.30
    > seconds)


    > If you end up removing your floppy drive then burn it to a CD using the
    > image and select create bootable CD in your writing software.


    Oh I know those are out there but I prefer to have it right on hand. As
    I said I could right now make images of every possible type of utility
    disk or make bootable CD's. Sooner or later I probably will. But for
    right now I'd rather be doing other things and I still have occasion to
    test some very old stuff that needs the installation. But this is more
    habit than need.

    I am very slow to remove some things. Maybe it's a quirk?

    >> It took me a year after I stopped using OS/2 to bite the bullet and
    >> finally remove it :-)


    > I was reconsidering Installing OS/2 Warp 3 or Warp 4 server in a virtual
    > machine so I didn't forget what it was like as I uninstalled it in 2000 and
    > occassionally regret it.


    I still have a light weight install on my HD (no multimedia, and on
    FAT). OS/2 had some very good disk management tools. I partitioned my
    drives for years with it's fdisk. I just got very good results with it.

+ Reply to Thread