A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped. - Mandrake

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  1. A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million
    pounds has flopped.

    Birmingham City Council began the project - one of the largest
    public-sector Linux projects in the UK - in May 2005 to evaluate the
    potential of open-source software. The council, the largest local
    authority in the UK, intended to deploy open-source software on 1,500
    PCs in libraries across the city.

    But the project has fallen vastly short of expectations, with just 200
    Linux PCs being deployed. Even some of those have been migrated back to
    Windows, council executives have told ZDNet UK.

    "We have deployed open source in some libraries. We have worked on the
    basis of 200 PCs. In some cases, we have migrated back to Windows,"
    said Les Timms, project manager at the city council. "1,500 was the
    original plan. It was a figure plucked from the air at the time," Timms
    told ZDNet UK.

    Timms said the council had compared the cost of the Linux desktop
    migration with an upgrade to Windows XP, and had found that a Microsoft
    upgrade would be cheaper. Most of the difference was made up of costs
    attributed to "decision making" and "project management", largely
    brought about because of a shortage of skills in open-source networking
    and the changes to IT processes that would result.

    The Linux project cost 534,710, while the equivalent XP upgrade would
    have cost the council 429,960. There were a range of problems with
    the open-source implementation, Timms said, including desktop
    interfaces and lack of support for removeable drives.

    In the light of the findings, the council has taken the decision to
    mothball the project.

    Timms has now moved jobs to work for Service Birmingham, a joint
    venture between Birmingham City Council and Capita, which is focusing
    on increasing business efficiency. Responsibility for the day-to-day
    running of the council's IT now rests with transformation chief Glyn
    Evans. Evans told ZDNet UK: "We will continue with a mixed economy
    [Microsoft and open source]." But he warned, "I'm not an open-source
    fanatic."

    Birmingham's project was funded through the 1.3m central
    government-backed Open Source Academy (OSA), which has itself faced
    mixed fortunes.

    Although the OSA has supported successful projects such as a
    5,500-desktop PC project run by Bristol City Council, it has also been
    blighted by criticism. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister withdrew
    its support from the OSA in March after accusations of poor management
    and after its dissemination programme flopped spectacularly.


    _______
    .-"" '.' ""-.
    ." .'. ".
    /| Q |
    / | :|: |\
    / / . . \"\
    / / ,/: :\, \ "\
    / / / (_i_) \ \ "\
    / / /" | | "\ \ |
    | / /" '-' "\ \."
    || / |/ \ \ \ \
    || ,'-./ \ |--. |
    | \ \ / |
    |\ \ | | /
    \_^-\ \ | /
    \ \ / /
    \ \ / /
    __\ \", / /__
    /- | | \ / / ( -\
    `~-._` ) / | -' _.-'****SuSE KDE poor man's Windows
    always ****ed by Microsoft.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________

    1980s
    There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.


    The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    to kill you.



    Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    the **** up.

    http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    ____________________________
    ID signature
    Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    Philip Davidson,
    10 Ronald Avenue
    West Ham
    E15 3AH
    East London
    Mobile phone 07906821566
    http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/


  2. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.


  3. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-millionpounds has flopped.

    home.home1@virgin.net wrote:

    Removed newgroups that was irrelevant to the topic and ignored those part of
    the original post that had nothing to do with the topic.


    > The Linux project cost 534,710, while the equivalent XP upgrade would
    > have cost the council 429,960. There were a range of problems with
    > the open-source implementation, Timms said, including desktop
    > interfaces and lack of support for removeable drives.


    Oh, thats what happens when using a outdated distro based on an early 2.0
    kernel, damn my RH6.2 did handle that fine.



  4. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    home.home1@virgin.net wrote:


    > Timms has now moved jobs to work for Service Birmingham, a joint
    > venture between Birmingham City Council and Capita, which is focusing
    > on increasing business efficiency. Responsibility for the day-to-day
    > running of the council's IT now rests with transformation chief Glyn
    > Evans. Evans told ZDNet UK: "We will continue with a mixed economy
    > [Microsoft and open source]." But he warned, "I'm not an open-source
    > fanatic."


    /Crapita/ has always been a Microsoft shill - I'm almost sure it's part
    owned by them! They are also just about the most inept company at doing
    _anything_ - look at all the public projects they've screwed up in London
    (Lambeth Housing immediately springs to mind - read the /Private/ /Eye/
    articles).

    Chris

  5. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    On 2006-11-13, J.O. Aho wrote:
    > home.home1@virgin.net wrote:
    >
    > Removed newgroups that was irrelevant to the topic and ignored those part of
    > the original post that had nothing to do with the topic.
    >
    >
    >> The Linux project cost 534,710, while the equivalent XP upgrade would
    >> have cost the council 429,960. There were a range of problems with
    >> the open-source implementation, Timms said, including desktop
    >> interfaces and lack of support for removeable drives.

    >
    > Oh, thats what happens when using a outdated distro based on an early 2.0
    > kernel, damn my RH6.2 did handle that fine.


    For the sake of others who didn't see the over-cross-posted original,
    Windows-using Googler "home.home1@virgin.net" did mention in the second article
    he posted, that the report he wants to troll is
    .

    Notable extracts from that report:

    ..-----
    | [...]
    |
    | The council, the largest local authority in the UK, intended to deploy
    | open-source software on 1,500 PCs in libraries across the city.
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | "1,500 was the original plan. It was a figure plucked from the air at the
    | time," Timms told ZDNet UK.
    '-----

    That certainly sounds like a well-planned project, then.

    ..-----
    | [...]
    |
    | Timms has now moved jobs to work for Service Birmingham, a joint venture
    | between Birmingham City Council and Capita, which is focusing on
    | increasing business efficiency. Responsibility for the day-to-day running
    | of the council's IT now rests with transformation chief Glyn Evans. Evans
    | told ZDNet UK: "We will continue with a mixed economy [Microsoft and open
    | source]." But he warned, "I'm not an open-source fanatic."
    '----

    So there's a certain amount of open-mindedness in the project's future ...

    ..-----
    | Birmingham's project was funded through the 1.3m central government-backed
    | Open Source Academy (OSA), which has itself faced mixed fortunes.
    |
    | Although the OSA has supported successful projects such as a 5,500-desktop
    | PC project run by Bristol City Council, it has also been blighted by
    | criticism. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister withdrew its support
    | from the OSA in March after accusations of poor management and after its
    | dissemination programme flopped spectacularly.
    '-----

    In other ZDNet news:

    ..-----
    | National open source centre comes to Birmingham
    |
    | Tim Ferguson silicon.com
    |
    | Published: 25 Oct 2006 16:00 BST
    |
    | An institute that aims to promote the use of open source software in the
    | UK is being set up in Birmingham.
    |
    | The National Open Centre (NOC) will aim to help set national policy on use
    | of open source software.
    |
    | Founding partners of the NOC include the National Computing Centre,
    | Birmingham City Council and the council-led Digital Birmingham initiative,
    | which aims to build an IT future for a city with an industrial past. Open
    | source project partners include OpenAdvantage, which works with the
    | University of Central England, and Midland Open Source Technologies.
    |
    | [...]
    '-----

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  6. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.


    home.home1@virgin.net writes:

    > A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million
    > pounds has flopped.


    Roy forgot to report this to comp.os.linux.advocacy so that other Linux
    migrations might learn from their mistakes,

    >
    > Birmingham City Council began the project - one of the largest
    > public-sector Linux projects in the UK - in May 2005 to evaluate the
    > potential of open-source software. The council, the largest local
    > authority in the UK, intended to deploy open-source software on 1,500
    > PCs in libraries across the city.
    >
    > But the project has fallen vastly short of expectations, with just 200
    > Linux PCs being deployed. Even some of those have been migrated back to
    > Windows, council executives have told ZDNet UK.
    >
    > "We have deployed open source in some libraries. We have worked on the
    > basis of 200 PCs. In some cases, we have migrated back to Windows,"
    > said Les Timms, project manager at the city council. "1,500 was the
    > original plan. It was a figure plucked from the air at the time," Timms
    > told ZDNet UK.
    >
    > Timms said the council had compared the cost of the Linux desktop
    > migration with an upgrade to Windows XP, and had found that a Microsoft
    > upgrade would be cheaper. Most of the difference was made up of costs
    > attributed to "decision making" and "project management", largely
    > brought about because of a shortage of skills in open-source networking
    > and the changes to IT processes that would result.
    >
    > The Linux project cost £534,710, while the equivalent XP upgrade would
    > have cost the council £429,960. There were a range of problems with
    > the open-source implementation, Timms said, including desktop
    > interfaces and lack of support for removeable drives.
    >
    > In the light of the findings, the council has taken the decision to
    > mothball the project.
    >
    > Timms has now moved jobs to work for Service Birmingham, a joint
    > venture between Birmingham City Council and Capita, which is focusing
    > on increasing business efficiency. Responsibility for the day-to-day
    > running of the council's IT now rests with transformation chief Glyn
    > Evans. Evans told ZDNet UK: "We will continue with a mixed economy
    > [Microsoft and open source]." But he warned, "I'm not an open-source
    > fanatic."
    >
    > Birmingham's project was funded through the £1.3m central
    > government-backed Open Source Academy (OSA), which has itself faced
    > mixed fortunes.
    >
    > Although the OSA has supported successful projects such as a
    > 5,500-desktop PC project run by Bristol City Council, it has also been
    > blighted by criticism. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister withdrew
    > its support from the OSA in March after accusations of poor management
    > and after its dissemination programme flopped spectacularly.
    >
    >
    > _______
    > .-"" '.' ""-.
    > ." .'. ".
    > /| Q |
    > / | :|: |\
    > / / . . \"\
    > / / ,/: :\, \ "\
    > / / / (_i_) \ \ "\
    > / / /" | | "\ \ |
    > | / /" '-' "\ \."
    > || / |/ \ \ \ \
    > || ,'-./ \ |--. |
    > | \ \ / |
    > |\ \ | | /
    > \_^-\ \ | /
    > \ \ / /
    > \ \ / /
    > __\ \", / /__
    > /- | | \ / / ( -\
    > `~-._` ) / | -' _.-'****SuSE KDE poor man's Windows
    > always ****ed by Microsoft.
    > __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    >
    > 1980s
    > There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    > days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    > U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.
    >
    >
    > The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    > One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    > to kill you.
    >
    >
    >
    > Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    > the **** up.
    >
    > http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    > It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    > ____________________________
    > ID signature
    > Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    > Philip Davidson,
    > 10 Ronald Avenue
    > West Ham
    > E15 3AH
    > East London
    > Mobile phone 07906821566
    > http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/
    >


    --

  7. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.


    Whiskers wrote:

    > On 2006-11-13, J.O. Aho wrote:
    > > home.home1@virgin.net wrote:
    > >
    > > Removed newgroups that was irrelevant to the topic and ignored those part of
    > > the original post that had nothing to do with the topic.
    > >


    You: "30958 postings Posts in -- 30958 messages
    alt.support.depression.
    http://news.individual.net/ "


    Shouldn't you be killing yourself you filthy smelly fat ugly bastard.
    I suppose you were desperate for me to answer you. My name and address
    is on this posting where is yours? Spineless ugly fat depressive filthy
    smelly bastard kill yourself you ****er.
    You useless fat smelly bastard. You know what to do don't you. Kill
    yourself do the world a favour put yourself out of your misery.

    __________________________________________________ ___________________________

    1980s
    There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.


    The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    to kill you.



    Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    the **** up.

    http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    ____________________________
    ID signature
    Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    Philip Davidson,
    10 Ronald Avenue
    West Ham
    E15 3AH
    East London
    Mobile phone 07906821566
    http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/


  8. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    J.O. Aho wrote:

    > home.home1@virgin.net wrote:
    >
    > Removed newgroups that was irrelevant to the topic and ignored those partof
    > the original post that had nothing to do with the topic.



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    Another cunt.

    One day they might actually get off the keyboard and go to work
    useless ****ing bastards. They bore me. They are not children
    they are adults but they are not men.

    _______
    .-"" '.' ""-.
    ." .'. ".
    /| Q |
    / | :|: |\
    / / . . \"\
    / / ,/: :\, \ "\
    / / / (_i_) \ \ "\
    / / /" | | "\ \ |
    | / /" '-' "\ \."
    || / |/ \ \ \ \
    || ,'-./ \ |--. |
    | \ \ / |
    |\ \ | | /
    \_^-\ \ | /
    \ \ / /
    \ \ / /
    __\ \", / /__
    /- | | \ / / ( -\
    `~-._` ) / | -' _.-' ****SuSE KDE poor man's Windows
    always ****ed by Microsoft.

    http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare.php
    __________________________________________________ __________________________



    980s
    There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.


    The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    to kill you.



    Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    the **** up.

    http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    ____________________________
    ID signature
    Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    Philip Davidson,
    10 Ronald Avenue
    West Ham
    E15 3AH
    East London
    Mobile phone 07906821566
    http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/


  9. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-millionpounds has flopped.

    home.home1@virgin.net schrieb:
    > A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million
    > pounds has flopped.
    >
    > Birmingham City Council began the project - one of the largest
    > public-sector Linux projects in the UK - in May 2005 to evaluate the
    > potential of open-source software. The council, the largest local
    > authority in the UK, intended to deploy open-source software on 1,500
    > PCs in libraries across the city.
    >


    The guys here, who are able to read german, may have a kind look at:

    http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/aktue...52043/001.html

    There's no english version, sorry.
    If you are interested I could summarize the article.

    Regards, Martin

  10. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-millionpounds has flopped.

    Martin Klar wrote:
    > home.home1@virgin.net schrieb:


    None Linux related newsgroups removed.

    >> A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million
    >> pounds has flopped.
    >>
    >> Birmingham City Council began the project - one of the largest
    >> public-sector Linux projects in the UK - in May 2005 to evaluate the
    >> potential of open-source software. The council, the largest local
    >> authority in the UK, intended to deploy open-source software on 1,500
    >> PCs in libraries across the city.
    >>

    >
    > The guys here, who are able to read german, may have a kind look at:
    >
    > http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/aktue...52043/001.html
    >
    > There's no english version, sorry.
    > If you are interested I could summarize the article.


    Here is an English article about the same thing:
    http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/80071


    //Aho

  11. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    Martin Klar wrote:

    > home.home1@virgin.net schrieb:
    > > A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million
    > > pounds has flopped.
    > >
    > > Birmingham City Council began the project - one of the largest
    > > public-sector Linux projects in the UK - in May 2005 to evaluate the
    > > potential of open-source software. The council, the largest local
    > > authority in the UK, intended to deploy open-source software on 1,500
    > > PCs in libraries across the city.
    > >

    >
    > The guys here, who are able to read german, may have a kind look at:
    >
    > http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/aktue...52043/001.html
    >
    > There's no english version, sorry.
    > If you are interested I could summarize the article.


    He says they might have 200 computers converted to Linux, by the year
    2008 in Munich.
    the computer systems are so old they run windows NT.

    The City of Munich has finally started to migrate to Linux on the
    desktop, a year later than planned.

    The local government in the German city has transferred 100 users in
    the Lord Mayor's department to a Debian configuration, and it intends
    to migrate 80 percent of its PCs by mid-2009.

    It has not been an easy transition for the government, which first
    announced its intention to move to Linux in 2003 and which had
    scheduled the first rollout to occur in 2005.

    But the 30m project, dubbed LiMux, hit numerous delays after a
    dispute over software patents, extended contractual negotiations and a
    12-month extension to the project pilot phase.

    "The tests are over. We have fixed the bugs and solved some of the
    problems," Florian Schiessl, deputy chief of the Linux client team,
    told ZDNet UK on Monday. "Everything we wanted done for the first
    release is working at the moment."

    Schiessl said it would be impossible to migrate all users to open
    source, but that 80 percent would move across by between late-2008 and
    mid-2009.

    "I don't think that we can [achieve 100 percent migration] because of
    interdependencies. There are business applications which run on Windows
    and hardware interfaces that need Windows operating systems."

    Schiessl plans to migrate another 200 PCs by the end of the year.

    The migration will happen in either one or two stages, with some of the
    14,000 PCs running OpenOffice on Windows as an interim stage.

    The decision over the use of the interim stage would be taken at a
    departmental level, Schiessl said.

    Debian was chosen after a recommendation from the government's external
    consultants, which made a proposal based on that particular
    configuration.

    Microsoft had fought hard to retain the government's business, with
    chief executive Steve Ballmer interrupting a skiing holiday to pay a
    personal visit to the City's mayor. The software giant also tried to
    tempt the government with a range of deals and discounts.

    Munich was first tempted to open source after an evaluation by IBM and
    Suse - the latter eventually losing out in the tender process.

    But costs for the project appear to be rising. Total internal and
    external costs are now expected to be 35m, up from a figure of
    30m quoted by the government three years ago.

    Schiessl refused to make a comparison. "We do not have a goal to
    compare total cost of ownership. Microsoft stopped supporting NT 4.0,
    so we must migrate."

    Suse is headquartered in Germany, and many German organisations have
    been looking enthusiastically towards open source software.

    The city government of Mannheim is deploying Linux to the desktop and
    on its servers.

    In the UK, Birmingham City Council is trialling open source desktops,
    while Bristol Council is deploying StarOffice.

    But executives at the local authority in Bergen, Norway, have recently
    delayed their Linux desktop plans for a further two years.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________
    1980s
    There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.


    The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    to kill you.



    Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    the **** up.

    http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    ____________________________
    ID signature
    Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    Philip Davidson,
    10 Ronald Avenue
    West Ham
    E15 3AH
    East London
    Mobile phone 07906821566
    http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/


  12. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.


    Martin Klar wrote:

    > home.home1@virgin.net schrieb:
    > > A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million
    > > pounds has flopped.
    > >
    > > Birmingham City Council began the project - one of the largest
    > > public-sector Linux projects in the UK - in May 2005 to evaluate the
    > > potential of open-source software. The council, the largest local
    > > authority in the UK, intended to deploy open-source software on 1,500
    > > PCs in libraries across the city.
    > >

    >
    > The guys here, who are able to read german, may have a kind look at:
    >
    > http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/aktue...52043/001.html


    "Regards, Martin"

    Regards Martin, what about Martin?
    To consider or have an opinion about something or someone:
    Local people regard this idea of a motorway through their village with
    horror.
    Her parents always regarded her as the cleverest of their children.
    To look carefully at something or someone: The bird regarded me with
    suspicion as I walked up to its nest.

    And finally:
    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...9282685,00.htm
    Ambitious plans by Bergen to move to an open source desktop environment
    have been suspended.

    Ole-Bjorn Tuftedal, special advisor on contracts and technology at
    Bergen, said on Monday that the desktop Linux migration would not
    happen for at least the next two years. Tuftedal, though, is still
    confident that the migration will happen eventually.

    The City of Bergen announced plans in 2004 to migrate its
    administration and educational servers to Linux - which Tuftedal says
    has now been successfully completed.

    The next stage of the project was to be a Linux migration on the
    desktop.The suspension of this project has been reported by analysts as
    evidence that open source software isn't ready for mass deployment on
    the desktop

    But Tuftedal claims that the Bergen administration had recently decided
    to concentrate its resources on an ongoing e-government portal which
    would give the citizens better access to key civic services. Over the
    next two years, 50 to 80 services will be made available to the
    citizens through this portal, which will run on Linux servers. But
    Tuftedal admitted the migration has proved to be more complicated than
    originally assumed.

    "We are quite a lean organisation, so consequently we cannot easily
    manage to do major changes to the desktop systems of our employees and
    do other large projects at the same time," Tuftedal told ZDNet UK. "The
    services for citizens have to be the priority."

    A further complication is that Bergen did not receive government
    funding to finance an evaluation project for the Linux desktop
    migration project. One challenge with this migration is that changing
    the desktop software would involve corresponding changes in the
    backoffice systems as well.

    At present, Bergen's desktop PCs are running Windows 2000 and Office
    2000, and may be upgraded to the 2003 versions of the Microsoft
    software, as the city already own the licences as part of a former
    enterprise agreement with the software maker.

    The city recently conducted a successful but limited trial of the open
    source OpenOffice, but there are advantages in sticking with the status
    quo until the e-government portal is built.

    "We have not got high licence costs now. Only if we bought new software
    would we incur new costs," said Tuftedal.

    Over the last few years, several cities have announced plans to test or
    deploy open source software. Recently, though, some of these plans have
    hit problems. Munich was forced to push back its desktop Linux rollout
    by a year, and the London borough of Newham stuck with Microsoft after
    trialling open source software.

    __________________________________________________ ____________________________


    1980s
    There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.


    The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    to kill you.



    Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    the **** up.

    http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    ____________________________
    ID signature
    Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    Philip Davidson,
    10 Ronald Avenue
    West Ham
    E15 3AH
    East London
    Mobile phone 07906821566
    http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/


  13. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:58:08 -0800, home.home1 wrote:

    > A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million
    > pounds has flopped.

    ....

    This reminds of the creationists attempts at discrediting evolution. I
    teach biology and I see this similar ploy all the time.
    [Literal] creationists (catch the analogy here of the reports of linux
    failures) attempt to disprove evolution (accepted by fact by 99% of
    biological scientists and the Catholic Church, etc) by poking holes at the
    occasional abberations (later shown to be explained by poor data
    collection and interpretation, incorrect interpretation by creationists,
    etc).

    Yes, certainly there are and will be incidents where linux projects do not
    work out as planned, i.e. fail. Same with Microsoft projects, or Mac OS
    projects. One has to look at the overall picture. There are many
    successful linux projects showing linux works.

    *Spanish school system switched to linux and open source
    *Chinese goverment had adopted linux and tossed out Windows
    *Brazil is going linux
    *One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) project using linux as the OS has been
    praised by Koffe Anan, Secretary General of the United Nations
    *The library at a large university in my town uses thin client linux
    terminals, successfully (for several years now) throughout the library
    *A school in my city uses linux for all its PCs, not MS-Windows
    *The list is long, but I think I have made a point...



  14. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.


    Beowulf wrote:

    > On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:58:08 -0800, home.home1 wrote:
    >
    > > A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million
    > > pounds has flopped.

    > ...
    >
    > This reminds of the creationists attempts at discrediting evolution. I
    > teach biology and I see this similar ploy all the time.
    > [Literal] creationists (catch the analogy here of the reports of linux
    > failures) attempt to disprove evolution (accepted by fact by 99% of
    > biological scientists and the Catholic Church, etc) by poking holes at the
    > occasional abberations (later shown to be explained by poor data
    > collection and interpretation, incorrect interpretation by creationists,
    > etc).
    >
    > Yes, certainly there are and will be incidents where linux projects do not
    > work out as planned, i.e. fail. Same with Microsoft projects, or Mac OS
    > projects. One has to look at the overall picture. There are many
    > successful linux projects showing linux works.
    >
    > *Spanish school system switched to linux and open source
    > *Chinese goverment had adopted linux and tossed out Windows
    > *Brazil is going linux
    > *One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) project using linux as the OS has been
    > praised by Koffe Anan, Secretary General of the United Nations
    > *The library at a large university in my town uses thin client linux
    > terminals, successfully (for several years now) throughout the library
    > *A school in my city uses linux for all its PCs, not MS-Windows
    > *The list is long, but I think I have made a point...


    http://www.gov.cn/
    National security and also tit-for-tat U.S saying it wouldn't use
    computers made in China,
    because of security reasons implying that somehow China, would have
    access to these computers through a backdoor. In return China, says it
    will not use Windows because of the U.S secret intelligence having
    backdoor access to Windows systems.

    A well-known saying among people who write software for Linux "Linux is
    like teenage sex, everybody is pretending to be having sex. the same as
    everybody pretends to be using Linux".


    Linux, and KDE are primitive they promote that primitive system to
    people who don't know any better. You will always find a silly message
    at the bottom of a KDE/Linux, users message copying somebody else's
    message
    promoting something that they have no idea about monkey see monkey
    does. They are easily led people..

    Linux/KDE/gnome are free because nobody will buy it.. It is not a
    desktop system
    it is a network system. And everybody knows that the poor countries
    are deleting Linux,
    immediately and replacing it with a pirate copy of Windows. The crack
    for Windows XP is widely
    available.

    All this pointless pretending to be using Linux, is ridiculous.

    "One Laptop Per Child. Hey people you cannot afford a Windows system so
    here is a poor man's Windows". It's not going to work.

    __________________________________________________ ___________________________


    1980s
    There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.


    The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    to kill you.



    Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    the **** up.

    http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    ____________________________
    ID signature
    Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    Philip Davidson,
    10 Ronald Avenue
    West Ham
    E15 3AH
    East London
    Mobile phone 07906821566
    http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/


  15. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    home.home1@virgin.net wrote:

    //massive snip//

    You /really/ don't understand what's going on, do you? The British
    "government" (in the form of Blair and his pals) has been thoroughly
    "bought" by Bill Gates and /his/ cronies. Blair got a very nice house out
    of the deal. There are efforts afoot to discredit, slander, denigrate and
    otherwise abuse free an open source software.

    *You* are probably part of the disinformation campaign.

    FOSS software /has/ been ready for business users for some time, and with
    the improved installation and configuration routines in the current
    distributions, /anyone/ can easily install Linux.

    This /isn't/ true of Windows - the average user gets his computer with
    pre-loaded Windows and all the hardware drivers, and just has to turn it on
    and click the box to resign all personal rights to ownership of software
    and data (you can only ever /lease/ Windows - you can't buy it). The
    computer will (sort of) work, but won't have any software loaded - he has
    to pay lots extra for that.

    As soon as he connects it to the 'net, he'll pick up something malicious
    that will impact his computers' already flaky performance, and compromise
    any marginal security he had. Within weeks his computer "won't work" and
    he'll try to get it fixed under warranty. He'll be told that the warranty
    is invalid because he "didn't take the right precautions against viruses"
    and that he has to shell out for a new copy of Windows because the
    pre-installed one on his hard drive is so fscked, and the manufacturers
    don't ship a proper install disk....

    He will lose all his data, will have to reload all his drivers and software
    - not that he'll be able to do that, because he won't have the slightest
    clue about computer administration, so he'll pay PC World or some other
    bunch of charlatans to do it for him....

    A month or two down the road, the same thing will happen, and this time
    he'll be told that he /needs/ "Vista"....

    Rinse and repeat.

    /Windows/ is not "fit for purpose" by any definition of the term, and
    is /certainly/ not suitable for the home user!

    So - go back to your Gatesware and leave the rest of us to get on with
    operating systems that are faster, more secure, more reliable, cheaper and
    5 to 7 years ahead of /anything/ from Microsoft!

    C



  16. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:28:02 -0800, home.home1 wrote:

    > A well-known saying among people who write software for Linux "Linux is
    > like teenage sex, everybody is pretending to be having sex. the same as
    > everybody pretends to be using Linux".


    [follow-ups set]

    How about you just bugger the **** on out of here, Win-droid. You're just
    the latest in the long line of ignorant stooges who wander around in here
    for a while spouting off in their Win-troll manner. No Linux user here
    gives a **** what you think, or say.

    Get out, now.

    --
    "Ubuntu" - an African word meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  17. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    On Tuesday 14 November 2006 05:28, home.home1@virgin.net stood up and
    addressed the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandrake/ as follows...:

    > Whiskers wrote:
    >
    >> On 2006-11-13, J.O. Aho wrote:

    >
    >> > home.home1@virgin.net wrote:
    >> >
    >> > Removed newgroups that was irrelevant to the topic and ignored those
    >> > part of the original post that had nothing to do with the topic.

    >
    > You: "30958 postings Posts in -- 30958 messages
    > alt.support.depression.
    > http://news.individual.net/ "
    >
    >
    > Shouldn't you be killing yourself you filthy smelly fat ugly bastard.
    > I suppose you were desperate for me to answer you. My name and address
    > is on this posting where is yours? Spineless ugly fat depressive filthy
    > smelly bastard kill yourself you ****er.
    > You useless fat smelly bastard. You know what to do don't you. Kill
    > yourself do the world a favour put yourself out of your misery.


    This fine piece of poetry in which you address a respectable poster and show
    yourself to lack all human dignity has earned you the Prize of the Month.

    Welcome to my /killfile,/ troll...

    **

    --
    With kind regards,

    *Aragorn*
    (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

  18. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    home.home1@virgin.net wrote:

    ......
    > http://www.gov.cn/
    > National security and also tit-for-tat U.S saying it wouldn't use
    > computers made in China,
    > because of security reasons implying that somehow China, would have
    > access to these computers through a backdoor. In return China, says it
    > will not use Windows because of the U.S secret intelligence having
    > backdoor access to Windows systems.
    >

    Sounds silly after all. But what else to expect of that kind of politics
    and politicians.

    > A well-known saying among people who write software for Linux "Linux is
    > like teenage sex, everybody is pretending to be having sex. the same as
    > everybody pretends to be using Linux".
    >

    Some will try to use linux and fail, because linux isn't for everyone ...
    though, like windows, everyone can use it once prepared.
    >
    > Linux, and KDE are primitive they promote that primitive system to
    > people who don't know any better. You will always find a silly message
    > at the bottom of a KDE/Linux, users message copying somebody else's
    > message
    > promoting something that they have no idea about monkey see monkey
    > does. They are easily led people..
    >

    *Smile*. Now I have that shiny Vista look, rotating cube, and much more, and
    it's flawlessly running on a box barely "vista-ready". I can use shares
    from different servers and credentials together at the same time, without
    need to trick out the operating system. I do not need a separate program to
    connect to *nix servers, it's just "out of the shell". I can even run some
    windows programs like lotus notes, without installing windows (oh well the
    lotus for linux doesn't work yet here ... but wait). I can open a lot of
    office documents that ms office simply rejects with weird error messages,
    and repair them simply by saving back in msoffice format.
    I can and do run a simple wireless network card as accesspoint, have various
    services (fileserver, squid, virus scanner for windows) running while at
    the same time watch a dvd movie. All that with a box barely adequate for
    vista.

    > Linux/KDE/gnome are free because nobody will buy it.. It is not a
    > desktop system
    > it is a network system.


    It is client-server based, but works without a network just the same.
    The benefit is, you can have a "headless" server with the gui elsewhere.

    > And everybody knows that the poor countries
    > are deleting Linux,
    > immediately and replacing it with a pirate copy of Windows. The crack
    > for Windows XP is widely
    > available.
    >

    Yeah. Included the trojan downloaders, compressed with proprietary packers
    so virus scanners can't see what's inside. Have Phun and take care of your
    credit card data.

    > All this pointless pretending to be using Linux, is ridiculous.
    >
    > "One Laptop Per Child. Hey people you cannot afford a Windows system so
    > here is a poor man's Windows". It's not going to work.
    >

    They do not have the time to spend with viruses and scanners, "desktop
    firewalls" and all that junk just eating up cpu cycles. They want a
    operating system to operate their computers.
    __________________________________________________ ___________________________
    >
    >
    > 1980s
    > There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    > days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    > U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.
    >
    >
    > The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    > One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    > to kill you.
    >
    >
    >
    > Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    > the **** up.
    >
    > http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    > It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    > ____________________________
    > ID signature
    > Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    > Philip Davidson,
    > 10 Ronald Avenue
    > West Ham
    > E15 3AH
    > East London
    > Mobile phone 07906821566
    > http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/


    --
    vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse found penguin patterns
    on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    Linux 2.6.17-mm1,Xorg7.1/nvidia [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]

  19. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    On 2006-11-14, Aragorn wrote:
    > On Tuesday 14 November 2006 05:28, home.home1@virgin.net stood up and
    > addressed the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandrake/ as follows...:
    >
    >> Whiskers wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2006-11-13, J.O. Aho wrote:

    >>
    >>> > home.home1@virgin.net wrote:
    >>> >
    >>> > Removed newgroups that was irrelevant to the topic and ignored those
    >>> > part of the original post that had nothing to do with the topic.

    >>
    >> You: "30958 postings Posts in -- 30958 messages
    >> alt.support.depression.
    >> http://news.individual.net/ "
    >>
    >>
    >> Shouldn't you be killing yourself you filthy smelly fat ugly bastard.
    >> I suppose you were desperate for me to answer you. My name and address
    >> is on this posting where is yours? Spineless ugly fat depressive filthy
    >> smelly bastard kill yourself you ****er.
    >> You useless fat smelly bastard. You know what to do don't you. Kill
    >> yourself do the world a favour put yourself out of your misery.

    >
    > This fine piece of poetry


    Oh, so that's the word I was looking for

    > in which you address a respectable poster and show
    > yourself to lack all human dignity has earned you the Prize of the Month.
    >
    > Welcome to my /killfile,/ troll...
    >
    > **


    I don't think that sort of talk will have any meaning for a googler (

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~

  20. Re: A publicly funded Linux project which cost UK taxpayers half-a-million pounds has flopped.

    Walter Mautner wrote:
    > vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse found penguin patterns
    > on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    > incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    > Linux 2.6.17-mm1,Xorg7.1/nvidia [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]



    Walter, you started out ok and then you suddenly couldn't resist
    turning into a clone
    you suddenly switched into a brainwashed user and you even did the
    classic message
    at the end of your posting.


    You know Windows doesn't need defending because it is a very successful
    company.
    Linux, KDE and gnome, need defending especially from the people who
    use it.
    Take a look at the replies..

    Linux, KDE and gnome is just software and not very good software at
    that.

    The endless bull**** about Windows, is just publicising the fact that
    they cannot even use a Windows, system.

    There is simply not very much to a Windows system it is easy to manage
    if you don't know what is running on a Windows system you shouldn't
    publicise
    the fact that you do not know.. It is like saying you do not know what
    is running on.
    a Dr-DOS system.


    Linux doesn't need people to abuse it. Its users on newsgroups do that
    perfectly.

    __________________________________________________ _____________________________

    1980s
    There's been a bomb in Oxford Street! And in the
    days before Al'Qaeda, there's only one prime suspect.
    U.S.A sponsoring terrorists as always.


    The U.S.A has sponsored every terrorist organisation in the world.
    One way or another throughout history the U.S.A as attempted
    to kill you.



    Who's the Governor! You wankers. Keyboard warriors. Put up or shut
    the **** up.

    http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3
    It shows you just how backward yanks are pathetic ****ing yanks.
    ____________________________
    ID signature
    Freedom, if you don't use it you lose it.
    Philip Davidson,
    10 Ronald Avenue
    West Ham
    E15 3AH
    East London
    Mobile phone 07906821566
    http://philipdavidson.blogspot.com/


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