does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS? - Linux

This is a discussion on does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS? - Linux ; On 2006-12-20, CBFalconer wrote: > I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu > 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get > network access because I can't find out how to ...

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Thread: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

  1. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

    On 2006-12-20, CBFalconer wrote:

    > I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    > 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    > network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    > modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up. My primary
    > machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can the USB
    > system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the purpose,
    > although the T30 can. I can't use a null modem cable because I
    > can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    > terminal).


    it can be done... linux hs serial support, you just need to
    convert the packages to an ascii format
    if you have uuencode that would be a good way...

    Bye.
    Jasen

  2. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and howtoprogram BBS?

    Bill Marcum wrote:
    > On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:34:03 -0500, CBFalconer
    > wrote:
    >>
    >> Result (typed, can't paste across machines):
    >>
    >> Reading package lists... Done
    >> Building dpendency tree... Done
    >> E: Couldn't find package minicom
    >>
    >> Now what?

    >
    > If it is on the CD, the .deb file would be under pool/main/m.
    > I don't have a dapper CD, but I have breezy and I see it isn't on
    > that CD. Perhaps you could download from packages.ubuntu.com
    > using the machine from which you are posting. Oh, but you still
    > have the chicken-egg problem of getting the file to the crippled
    > laptop with no floppy or network. Do you have a cd burner or a
    > USB flash drive?
    >
    > ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.development.apps.]


    Cross-post restored. I don't inhabit c.o.l.d.a.

    As I pointed out in the original, no cd burner on the other
    machine, and the USB flash only works on the laptop, not the
    networked machine (which runs W98FE). Been there.

    Eventual possible solutions include installing W98SE on this
    machine, which would be very awkward and not guaranteed to bring
    the flash to life, and getting another machine with a CD writer.
    Since I have spent most of the summer and a good portion of the
    fall in the hospital, I am not enthusiastic about either.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.



  3. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

    "CBFalconer" wrote in message
    news:4588F09C.9049866F@yahoo.com...

    > I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    > 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    > network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    > modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up. My primary
    > machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can the USB
    > system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the purpose,
    > although the T30 can. I can't use a null modem cable because I
    > can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    > terminal).


    Could you boot your primary machine using an Ubuntu (or any other Linux)
    Live Disk, copy 'whatever' down onto a, hopefully now working, USB then load
    the 'whatever' onto your laptop?

    --
    Stuart



  4. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and howtoprogram BBS?

    On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 05:49:38 -0500
    CBFalconer wrote:

    > As I pointed out in the original, no cd burner on the other
    > machine, and the USB flash only works on the laptop, not the
    > networked machine (which runs W98FE). Been there.


    Hmm I'd be inclined to try SLIP or PPP over the serial line direct
    linked between the Win98 and the laptop.

    --
    C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
    The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
    You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
    | http://www.sohara.org/

  5. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

    In comp.os.linux.misc CBFalconer wrote:
    : I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    : 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    : network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    : modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up. My primary
    : machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can the USB
    : system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the purpose,
    : although the T30 can. I can't use a null modem cable because I
    : can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    : terminal).

    The T30 has onboard LAN, so why not just hook an ethernet cable
    between the two machines and be done with it? Depending uopn
    your NIC's you might need a crossover cable but that's readily available.

    Use the Windows machine as a gateway if you need live network
    access on the Linux machine.

    : The laptop can't use windows because I blew it away for insisting
    : on assent to the impossible EULA, and it has no recovery CD.

    Perhaps not the most brilliant move.
    In any case you can most likely get a recovery CD from the manufacturer.

    Stan

    --
    Stan Bischof ("stan" at the below domain)
    www.worldbadminton.com

  6. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and howtoprogram BBS?

    Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:
    > CBFalconer wrote:
    >
    >> As I pointed out in the original, no cd burner on the other
    >> machine, and the USB flash only works on the laptop, not the
    >> networked machine (which runs W98FE). Been there.

    >
    > Hmm I'd be inclined to try SLIP or PPP over the serial line
    > direct linked between the Win98 and the laptop.


    That sounds interesting. Now how do I do that, step by step, on
    both machines. My ignorance of networking is impressive. It may
    suffice to set up the TCP/IP link with slip on the laptop, since I
    use an external modem anyhow. A long time ago I did it with
    Mandrake 8.0, but I forget how, and I suspect things are different
    anyhow. The laptop (at present) is running Ubuntu. The point of
    having a suitable terminal is that I can check the system is
    talking to the modem by typing AT commands.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.




  7. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how toprogram BBS?

    Stuart wrote:
    >
    > "CBFalconer" wrote in message
    > news:4588F09C.9049866F@yahoo.com...
    >
    > > I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    > > 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    > > network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    > > modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up. My primary
    > > machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can the USB
    > > system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the purpose,
    > > although the T30 can. I can't use a null modem cable because I
    > > can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    > > terminal).

    >
    > Could you boot your primary machine using an Ubuntu (or any other
    > Linux) Live Disk, copy 'whatever' down onto a, hopefully now working,
    > USB then load the 'whatever' onto your laptop?


    That too is a reasonable idea. In fact I could simply boot it into
    the existing Mandrake 8.0 system, which already talks to the
    modem. If that will talk to the flash I should have it made.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.




  8. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how toprogram BBS?

    stan@worldbadminton.com wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.misc CBFalconer wrote:
    >

    .... snip ...
    >
    >> The laptop can't use windows because I blew it away for insisting
    >> on assent to the impossible EULA, and it has no recovery CD.

    >
    > Perhaps not the most brilliant move. In any case you can most
    > likely get a recovery CD from the manufacturer.


    True. They won't supply a recover CD, but they did send me a
    replacement HD with the original installation. The problem there
    is that I can't get the old HD out by following instructions
    without undue violence. I don't want to crack the plastic into
    small insignificant shards. I don't know where to call the
    co-operative man who sent me the replacement, and am hoping he will
    call to ask why I haven't returned a drive.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.



  9. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

    On 2006-12-20, Bill Marcum wrote:
    > ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.development.apps.]
    > On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 03:13:16 -0500, CBFalconer
    > wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    >> 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    >> network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    >> modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up. My primary
    >> machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can the USB
    >> system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the purpose,
    >> although the T30 can. I can't use a null modem cable because I
    >> can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    >> terminal).

    >
    > Minicom can do zmodem.


    not unassisted. if lszrz is on the ubuntu cd that's all that's needed,
    (just run getty on the serial port and connect with a windows terminal
    program, and upload files)

    without lszrz file transfers become more difficult,
    is uudecode available? it's not a show stopper if not,

    But I don't know of any windows progs that can escape binary files
    correctly for bash, but if you can program in qbasic...

    > You can also do ppp with a null modem cable (not sure how you would
    > set up the Windows end).


    There's a howto, (it involves the windows direct cable connection thing,
    ppp, and chat) I had it working once, but now it's gone south and I can't
    get it going again.

    Bye.
    Jasen

  10. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and howtoprogram BBS?

    On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:15:37 -0500
    CBFalconer wrote:

    > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:
    > > CBFalconer wrote:
    > >
    > >> As I pointed out in the original, no cd burner on the other
    > >> machine, and the USB flash only works on the laptop, not the
    > >> networked machine (which runs W98FE). Been there.

    > >
    > > Hmm I'd be inclined to try SLIP or PPP over the serial line
    > > direct linked between the Win98 and the laptop.

    >
    > That sounds interesting. Now how do I do that, step by step, on
    > both machines.


    Ah now you've got me I could almost certainly get it up and
    running if I were sitting at the boxes but I've never run Ubuntu.

    I suggest looking for docs on setting Ubuntu up to serve PPP
    connections on the serial port (like an ISP), connect the serial ports and
    set Win98 up for a dial up connection with no phone number (I think that
    suffices to stop it fiddling with AT commands). Assign fixed IP addresses to
    both ends.

    --
    C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
    The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
    You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
    | http://www.sohara.org/

  11. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

    CBFalconer wrote
    (in article <4588F09C.9049866F@yahoo.com>):

    > I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    > 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    > network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    > modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up.


    By this, you mean there is no built-in ethernet port or wireless
    at all? Or, that you just want to get on the internet via modem
    for some reason?

    > My primary machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can the
    > USB system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the purpose,
    > although the T30 can.


    Does it even recognize the presence of the USB device /at all/,
    or just not the file system on it? Have you tried reformatting
    it under Win98? I've used USB keys on a boatload of systems
    without difficulty. The only variation in behavior seems to be
    some (broken) platforms don't like it when you try to boot from
    USB.

    > I can't use a null modem cable because I
    > can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    > terminal).


    I looked through this thread trying to figure out what you're
    actually trying to do, but couldn't find it spelled out, so I'm
    going to guess from the above that you are trying to migrate
    data to this Ubuntu system from your Win/98 box?


    --
    Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
    "The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those
    who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw






  12. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how toprogram BBS?

    Randy Howard wrote:
    > CBFalconer wrote
    >
    >> I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    >> 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    >> network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    >> modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up.

    >
    > By this, you mean there is no built-in ethernet port or wireless
    > at all? Or, that you just want to get on the internet via modem
    > for some reason?
    >
    >> My primary machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can
    >> the USB system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the
    >> purpose, although the T30 can.

    >
    > Does it even recognize the presence of the USB device /at all/,
    > or just not the file system on it? Have you tried reformatting
    > it under Win98? I've used USB keys on a boatload of systems
    > without difficulty. The only variation in behavior seems to be
    > some (broken) platforms don't like it when you try to boot from
    > USB.
    >
    >> I can't use a null modem cable because I
    >> can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    >> terminal).

    >
    > I looked through this thread trying to figure out what you're
    > actually trying to do, but couldn't find it spelled out, so I'm
    > going to guess from the above that you are trying to migrate
    > data to this Ubuntu system from your Win/98 box?


    Precisely. I have gotten a couple of suggestions that need
    trying. One of which amounts to use the Mandrake 8.0 that I have
    mounted on the Windows box, and I had forgotten about. It may
    recognize and use the flash drive. I know it can access the
    Internet and the Windows files.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.




  13. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

    CBFalconer wrote
    (in article <458C79C9.D2AFF3BF@yahoo.com>):

    > Randy Howard wrote:
    >> CBFalconer wrote
    >>
    >>> I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    >>> 6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    >>> network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    >>> modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up.

    >>
    >> By this, you mean there is no built-in ethernet port or wireless
    >> at all? Or, that you just want to get on the internet via modem
    >> for some reason?
    >>
    >>> My primary machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can
    >>> the USB system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the
    >>> purpose, although the T30 can.

    >>
    >> Does it even recognize the presence of the USB device /at all/,
    >> or just not the file system on it? Have you tried reformatting
    >> it under Win98? I've used USB keys on a boatload of systems
    >> without difficulty. The only variation in behavior seems to be
    >> some (broken) platforms don't like it when you try to boot from
    >> USB.
    >>
    >>> I can't use a null modem cable because I
    >>> can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    >>> terminal).

    >>
    >> I looked through this thread trying to figure out what you're
    >> actually trying to do, but couldn't find it spelled out, so I'm
    >> going to guess from the above that you are trying to migrate
    >> data to this Ubuntu system from your Win/98 box?

    >
    > Precisely. I have gotten a couple of suggestions that need
    > trying. One of which amounts to use the Mandrake 8.0 that I have
    > mounted on the Windows box, and I had forgotten about. It may
    > recognize and use the flash drive. I know it can access the
    > Internet and the Windows files.


    Simplest might be to just get one of the el cheapo drive
    enclosures that take a standard IDE drive (assuming that's what
    is in your desktop) and connect via USB or firewire. Take the
    drive out of your 98 box temporarily, put it in the enclosure,
    and connect it to the Linux box and mount it directly. Copy all
    of the data over, then put it back in the original chassis.



    --
    Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
    "The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those
    who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw






  14. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how toprogram BBS?

    Randy Howard wrote:
    > CBFalconer wrote
    >> Randy Howard wrote:
    >>

    .... snip ...
    >>>
    >>> I looked through this thread trying to figure out what you're
    >>> actually trying to do, but couldn't find it spelled out, so I'm
    >>> going to guess from the above that you are trying to migrate
    >>> data to this Ubuntu system from your Win/98 box?

    >>
    >> Precisely. I have gotten a couple of suggestions that need
    >> trying. One of which amounts to use the Mandrake 8.0 that I have
    >> mounted on the Windows box, and I had forgotten about. It may
    >> recognize and use the flash drive. I know it can access the
    >> Internet and the Windows files.

    >
    > Simplest might be to just get one of the el cheapo drive
    > enclosures that take a standard IDE drive (assuming that's what
    > is in your desktop) and connect via USB or firewire. Take the
    > drive out of your 98 box temporarily, put it in the enclosure,
    > and connect it to the Linux box and mount it directly. Copy all
    > of the data over, then put it back in the original chassis.


    That's another viable suggestion. It has the disadvantage of
    needing new hardware. I think the first thing I will try is the
    Mandrake. These things will wait till after Christmas.

    --
    Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.



  15. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

    CBFalconer burped up warm pablum in
    news:45895283.6B5CE249@yahoo.com:

    >> Minicom can do zmodem. You can also do ppp with a null modem cable
    >> (not sure how you would set up the Windows end).

    >
    > No such item as minicom on the Ubuntu CD. Thus I can't use it :-(


    Is the rzsz package on your Ubuntu CDs? Rz and sz can receive and send
    files by x, y and zmodem.

    --
    Tris Orendorff
    [Q: What kind of modem did Jimi Hendrix use?
    A: A purple Hayes.]



  16. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and howtoprogram BBS?

    CBFalconer wrote:
    > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:
    >> CBFalconer wrote:
    >>
    >>> As I pointed out in the original, no cd burner on the other
    >>> machine, and the USB flash only works on the laptop, not the
    >>> networked machine (which runs W98FE). Been there.

    >> Hmm I'd be inclined to try SLIP or PPP over the serial line
    >> direct linked between the Win98 and the laptop.

    >
    > That sounds interesting. Now how do I do that, step by step, on
    > both machines. My ignorance of networking is impressive. It may
    > suffice to set up the TCP/IP link with slip on the laptop, since I
    > use an external modem anyhow.


    If all you're trying to do is transfer a few files to the Linux
    machine (I haven't been following this thread), it seems like
    overkill though. Just use uuencode and uudecode. Create a
    uuencoded version of the file, send it over the serial port to
    the Linux machine, then use some program ("cat" if you have to,
    but probably "tip" or "cu") to capture the data coming over the
    serial port. Then hand-edit the captured data with a text editor,
    fix line endings if necessary, remove everything before the "begin"
    line and after the "end" line, and run "uudecode" on the result.

    Your serial line doesn't have to "8-bit clean", you don't need a
    fancy modem file transfer protocol like z-modem, and you should
    have all the tools to do this already available on a Linux install,
    that is unless Linux ships without uudecode or something silly
    like that.

    - Logan

  17. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to

    Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
    CBFalconer spake unto us, saying:

    >I've got a chicken/egg situation here. I have a laptop with Ubuntu
    >6.06 mounted, and no floppy drive, nor network access. I can't get
    >network access because I can't find out how to use the internal
    >modem (a Thinkpad T30) and network here means dial-up. My primary
    >machine is running W98FE, and can't write CDs. Nor can the USB
    >system on it access a Gizmo I bought from Crucial for the purpose,
    >although the T30 can. I can't use a null modem cable because I
    >can't find a zmodem capable terminal for the T30 (nor even any
    >terminal).


    I used to have a firewall box set up even back in the dial-up days to
    solve problems like this. I would use the external USR HST/DS modem on
    my firewall to connect to my ISP, I'd use IP Masqerading on that box to
    allow access to the other boxes in my LAN, and I'd use ethernet+TCP/IP
    on all of the other boxes to access the internet.

    That would allow any box to get access to the net as long as I could
    get its network card to work -- very helpful for laptops with strange
    modem hardware. It also provides an additional level of protection for
    boxes running Windows variants (no direct exposure to the net).

    That might be overkill in your situation unless you have an old box
    with a working modem lying around...

    >If I could find and install such things as Ztelnet or mTelnet I
    >might be able to break the impasse. Even xxmodem.


    mTelnet only has Windows and OS/2 versions that I'm aware of. Ztelnet
    has a Linux version, but it's something I haven't used for a while, and
    I don't remember if it used to be on the installation CDs of any of the
    distros I used.

    --
    -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA
    Mainframe/Unix bit twiddler by day, OS/2+Linux+DOS hobbyist by night.
    WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

  18. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to program BBS?

    On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:15:29 -0600, CBFalconer wrote
    (in article <458CAD61.F9FBE129@yahoo.com>):

    > Randy Howard wrote:
    >> CBFalconer wrote
    >>> Randy Howard wrote:
    >>>

    > ... snip ...
    >>>>
    >>>> I looked through this thread trying to figure out what you're
    >>>> actually trying to do, but couldn't find it spelled out, so I'm
    >>>> going to guess from the above that you are trying to migrate
    >>>> data to this Ubuntu system from your Win/98 box?
    >>>
    >>> Precisely. I have gotten a couple of suggestions that need
    >>> trying. One of which amounts to use the Mandrake 8.0 that I have
    >>> mounted on the Windows box, and I had forgotten about. It may
    >>> recognize and use the flash drive. I know it can access the
    >>> Internet and the Windows files.

    >>
    >> Simplest might be to just get one of the el cheapo drive
    >> enclosures that take a standard IDE drive (assuming that's what
    >> is in your desktop) and connect via USB or firewire. Take the
    >> drive out of your 98 box temporarily, put it in the enclosure,
    >> and connect it to the Linux box and mount it directly. Copy all
    >> of the data over, then put it back in the original chassis.

    >
    > That's another viable suggestion. It has the disadvantage of
    > needing new hardware.


    Given that you are using a notebook which apparently is one of
    the last in the universe without a network adapter of any kind,
    new hardware might not be such a bad thing. :-)


    --
    Lefty
    All of God's creatures have a place..........
    ..........right next to the potatoes and gravy.
    See also: http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif


  19. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to

    On 2006-12-23, Richard Steiner wrote:

    >>If I could find and install such things as Ztelnet or mTelnet I
    >>might be able to break the impasse. Even xxmodem.


    > mTelnet only has Windows and OS/2 versions that I'm aware of. Ztelnet
    > has a Linux version, but it's something I haven't used for a while, and
    > I don't remember if it used to be on the installation CDs of any of the
    > distros I used.


    modemu+minicom may be another option.

    Bye.
    Jasen

  20. Re: does anybody know an very old technology called BBS and how to

    Here in comp.os.linux.misc, jasen
    spake unto us, saying:

    >On 2006-12-23, Richard Steiner wrote:
    >
    >> mTelnet only has Windows and OS/2 versions that I'm aware of. Ztelnet
    >> has a Linux version, but it's something I haven't used for a while, and
    >> I don't remember if it used to be on the installation CDs of any of the
    >> distros I used.

    >
    >modemu+minicom may be another option.


    Ah... A Linux answer to SIO's Vmodem virtual modem driver for OS/2
    (which provides a Hayes-compatible virtual modem interface to telnet
    for serial-port-based comm programs, etc.).

    Excellent!

    Can modemu be used in conjunction with DOSEMU to allow DOS comm progs
    like Telemate or Telix to be used as a telnet client? That would be
    awesome! :-)

    --
    -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA
    Mainframe/Unix bit twiddler by day, OS/2+Linux+DOS hobbyist by night.
    WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

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