Linux PDA - Linux

This is a discussion on Linux PDA - Linux ; On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:48:52 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote: > On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:30:05 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote: > >> On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:04:48 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 ...

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Thread: Linux PDA

  1. Re: Linux PDA

    On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:48:52 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:30:05 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:04:48 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:07:08 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Any recommendations on a Linux-based PDA?
    >>>>
    >>>> Preferences:
    >>>>
    >>>> 1) Quasi-real keyboard
    >>>> 2) Can actually edit documents (OpenOffice?) etc 3) Is
    >>>> user-updatable (i.e. can add packages, etc)
    >>>>
    >>>> Price is less of a concern than functionality - to a point. As in
    >>>> $1000 is getting a tad ridiculous for a PDA.
    >>>
    >>> Why not go with a T-Mobile G1? Best of both worlds.

    >>
    >> Really? Somehow I just can't see entering more than a few lines of
    >> text on that piddly-ass little keyboard.

    >
    > It's larger than any other mobile keyboard i've seen. You want a PDA
    > but you want a full size keyboard?


    Maybe the images I saw were misleading; it looked about the size of a
    Blackberry. I.e. a glorified phone, rather than something intended to be
    used primarily as a keyboard-operated device.

    If it is, in fact, designed to be primarily a keyboard-driven device and
    has keyboard appropriate to that, fine, but it certainly didn't appear
    that way when I checked it out online.


  2. Re: Linux PDA

    On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:41:30 -0600, Terry Porter wrote:

    > On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:30:29 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:36:34 -0600, Terry Porter wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 11:07:08 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Any recommendations on a Linux-based PDA?
    >>>>
    >>>> Preferences:
    >>>>
    >>>> 1) Quasi-real keyboard
    >>>> 2) Can actually edit documents (OpenOffice?) etc 3) Is
    >>>> user-updatable (i.e. can add packages, etc)
    >>>>
    >>>> Price is less of a concern than functionality - to a point. As in
    >>>> $1000 is getting a tad ridiculous for a PDA.
    >>>
    >>> After buying a Nokia N770, a EeePC900 and a Acer Aspire one, I'd have
    >>> to go with the Acer because :
    >>>
    >>> * the keyboard is nice and usable
    >>> * small size of the unit. you really cant make something like that
    >>> much smaller!
    >>> * beautiful touchpad
    >>> * 1024x600 briteview screen
    >>> * good battery life
    >>> * wifi
    >>> * affordable
    >>> * two SD card slots for extra memory
    >>>
    >>> Downside:
    >>> Linpus Linux may drive a Linux expert like yourself nuts, especially
    >>> trying to alter it ?
    >>> Acer cashback is like pulling fingernails, here in OZ anyway

    >>
    >> How's the battery and keyboard compare to the Eee? 7's review on the
    >> Eee suggested it might be a good consideration.

    >
    > My EeePC900 has a really small keyboard, it's useless for touch typing.
    > This is not a problem for me, as I don't touch type. I'm a 20WPM two
    > finger typer.
    >
    > The 10" EeePC has a much better keyboard as the whole thing is a lot
    > bigger than mine. Mine is almost exactly the same size as the original
    > 700 series EeePC, but my screen is larger wit a res of 1024x600.
    >
    > The batteries are quite different, both small, but the Acer battery is
    > *** tiny ***. About the size of a medium size round texta and half as
    > long again, and weighs only 6 Oz!. It's a really nice design I think.
    >
    > My EeePC is slightly smaller than the Acer, but the Acer just feels
    > small and doesn't have the EeePC 'toy' look to it.
    >
    > The Acer is a beautiful unit, and Acer have done a good styling job,
    > many would say above average for Acer.
    >
    > The EeePC900 is well designed, I think it's more solid than the Acer,
    > but it just looks like a toy, even tho nothing could be further from the
    > truth. I use it with an aftermarket 10.4AH battery, it's very large and
    > heavy, compared to the standard 4AH EeePC900 battery.
    >
    > You can see in this pic :-
    > http://wifi.homelinux.com/docuwiki/lib/exe/detail.php?
    >

    id=eeepc900_external_rear_antenna_connector_mod&cache=cache&media=eeepc_and_sstenna.jpg
    >
    > I recommend that you actually check out the real world units, and play
    > with the keyboards etc, before buying, if at all possible.


    Yeah, I plan to - but asking around up front to eliminate much dross or
    highlight a few notables is not a bad idea either.


  3. Re: Linux PDA

    On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 11:07:08 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:

    > Any recommendations on a Linux-based PDA?



    Thanks, all, for the input. Looks like the Eee or the Acer are the most
    likely culprits. Will check them out.


  4. Re: Linux PDA

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Peter Köhlmann belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >>> Windows is a poor option for a mobile companion intended for use far away
    >>> from the protection of the corporate network.

    >>
    >> And yet more than 99% of laptops out there do just that.
    >>
    >> Strange eh?

    >
    > Wrong. When subtracting the Mac laptops, we are already below the 90% mark.
    > And strangely enough for a wintroll like Hadron Quark, lots of laptops run
    > just fine with linux. Lets be generous and give wintendo laptops a 86% mark
    > here.
    >
    > As usual, Hadron Quark, the "true linux advocate" and "kernel hacker" is
    > vastly exaggerating windows importance. It is far less then his "more than
    > 99%" figure, and diminishing. When we now take the new netbooks into
    > account where the linux figures are at around 30%, one can clearly see that
    > this astroturfing shill is off his meds again


    Hadron sure confabulates and exaggerates a lot, doesn't he? And /always/
    against Linux, Free Software, and anyone who recommends them.

    --
    Your worship is your furnaces
    which, like old idols, lost obscenes,
    have molten bowels; your vision is
    machines for making more machines.
    -- Gordon Bottomley, 1874

  5. Re: Linux PDA

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:25:20 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:

    > On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:48:52 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:30:05 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:04:48 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:07:08 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Any recommendations on a Linux-based PDA?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Preferences:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> 1) Quasi-real keyboard
    >>>>> 2) Can actually edit documents (OpenOffice?) etc 3) Is
    >>>>> user-updatable (i.e. can add packages, etc)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Price is less of a concern than functionality - to a point. As in
    >>>>> $1000 is getting a tad ridiculous for a PDA.
    >>>>
    >>>> Why not go with a T-Mobile G1? Best of both worlds.
    >>>
    >>> Really? Somehow I just can't see entering more than a few lines of
    >>> text on that piddly-ass little keyboard.

    >>
    >> It's larger than any other mobile keyboard i've seen. You want a PDA
    >> but you want a full size keyboard?

    >
    > Maybe the images I saw were misleading; it looked about the size of a
    > Blackberry. I.e. a glorified phone, rather than something intended to be
    > used primarily as a keyboard-operated device.
    >
    > If it is, in fact, designed to be primarily a keyboard-driven device and
    > has keyboard appropriate to that, fine, but it certainly didn't appear
    > that way when I checked it out online.


    It's a dual-purpose device, both phone and pda. It's intended to be used
    by keyboard for things like email and what not. The keyboard is certainly
    no worse than the Nokia N810's, althought the "bump" on the right might be
    annoying to some.

    It's certainly larger than a blackberry's. Here's a good picture. Still a
    "thumb" keyboard. If you want a full-size keyboard, then you should
    consider a netbook.

    http://phandroid.com/wp-content/uplo...rchresults.jpg

  6. Re: Linux PDA

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:12:05 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:25:20 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:48:52 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:30:05 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:04:48 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:07:08 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Any recommendations on a Linux-based PDA?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Preferences:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> 1) Quasi-real keyboard
    >>>>>> 2) Can actually edit documents (OpenOffice?) etc 3) Is
    >>>>>> user-updatable (i.e. can add packages, etc)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Price is less of a concern than functionality - to a point. As in
    >>>>>> $1000 is getting a tad ridiculous for a PDA.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Why not go with a T-Mobile G1? Best of both worlds.
    >>>>
    >>>> Really? Somehow I just can't see entering more than a few lines of
    >>>> text on that piddly-ass little keyboard.
    >>>
    >>> It's larger than any other mobile keyboard i've seen. You want a PDA
    >>> but you want a full size keyboard?

    >>
    >> Maybe the images I saw were misleading; it looked about the size of a
    >> Blackberry. I.e. a glorified phone, rather than something intended to
    >> be used primarily as a keyboard-operated device.
    >>
    >> If it is, in fact, designed to be primarily a keyboard-driven device
    >> and has keyboard appropriate to that, fine, but it certainly didn't
    >> appear that way when I checked it out online.

    >
    > It's a dual-purpose device, both phone and pda. It's intended to be
    > used by keyboard for things like email and what not. The keyboard is
    > certainly no worse than the Nokia N810's, althought the "bump" on the
    > right might be annoying to some.
    >
    > It's certainly larger than a blackberry's. Here's a good picture.
    > Still a "thumb" keyboard. If you want a full-size keyboard, then you
    > should consider a netbook.
    >
    > http://phandroid.com/wp-content/uplo...8/09/t-mobile-

    g1_wht_searchresults.jpg

    Hard to tell from that. Is it 2" long and close up, or 16" long using a
    large font?

    I'm guessing it's about 6" or so, meaning the keyboard is somewhere
    between microscopic and maddening.

    So yeah, if a glorified phone is the only other choice, I'll get her a
    netbook.


  7. Re: Linux PDA

    Hadron wrote:

    > Ian Hilliard writes:
    >
    >> DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ian Hilliard wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I'm running Ubuntu on an MSI Wind U100 and it is a close to the
    >>>> perfect travel computer that I have come across to date. In the
    >>>> office, I hook it up to a 22" screen/keyboard/mouse. It is more than
    >>>> powerful enough to do word process, spread sheets, presentations,
    >>>> planning (freemind), project planning (planner) and programming (Sun
    >>>> Studio 12). The inbuilt camera is good for conferencing and calling
    >>>> home to talk to the family.
    >>>>
    >>>> The existing wireless card didn't like some networks so I have
    >>>> replaced it with an Intel PCIe wireless card.
    >>>>
    >>>> I've put a bigger hard drive (320GB) more memory into it as I also
    >>>> use it for graphic processing (camera --> Gimp --> presentation). It
    >>>> is a little slow, but quite usable.
    >>>
    >>> Your post is incomplete; it's missing the requisite stupid cola lie
    >>> about Windows\Vista on the U100.

    >>
    >> How about the prerequisite warning that Windows should never be used on
    >> an unprotected network? Even with a virus scanner, firewall and spyware
    >> scanner, Windows boxes still end up getting some nasty piece of malware,
    >> which requires a total reinstallation.
    >>
    >> Windows is a poor option for a mobile companion intended for use far away
    >> from the protection of the corporate network.
    >>
    >> Ian

    >
    > And yet more than 99% of laptops out there do just that.
    >
    > Strange eh?


    People do all sorts of dangerous things like driving under the influence or
    having unprotected casual sex.

    As for the 99% that is rather exaggerated. Firstly, there are more and more
    Macs and Linux netbooks. Next, many corporations try to extend the
    protection of the corporate network by only permitting networking through a
    VPN back to the protected network. This may not be perfect, but it is
    better than the alternative, which is the equivalent to having unprotected
    sex with a local in central Africa.

    Keeping the mobile staff safe and secure is costing corporations an ever
    increasing amount of money. Some have already moved their mobile staff onto
    Macs.

    It is only a matter of time before other alternatives such as Linux are
    investigated. Microsoft has the FUD machine running at full revs to delay
    that day as long as possible, but it will happen.

    Ian

  8. Re: Linux PDA

    Ian Hilliard writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Ian Hilliard writes:
    >>
    >>> DFS wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ian Hilliard wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I'm running Ubuntu on an MSI Wind U100 and it is a close to the
    >>>>> perfect travel computer that I have come across to date. In the
    >>>>> office, I hook it up to a 22" screen/keyboard/mouse. It is more than
    >>>>> powerful enough to do word process, spread sheets, presentations,
    >>>>> planning (freemind), project planning (planner) and programming (Sun
    >>>>> Studio 12). The inbuilt camera is good for conferencing and calling
    >>>>> home to talk to the family.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The existing wireless card didn't like some networks so I have
    >>>>> replaced it with an Intel PCIe wireless card.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I've put a bigger hard drive (320GB) more memory into it as I also
    >>>>> use it for graphic processing (camera --> Gimp --> presentation). It
    >>>>> is a little slow, but quite usable.
    >>>>
    >>>> Your post is incomplete; it's missing the requisite stupid cola lie
    >>>> about Windows\Vista on the U100.
    >>>
    >>> How about the prerequisite warning that Windows should never be used on
    >>> an unprotected network? Even with a virus scanner, firewall and spyware
    >>> scanner, Windows boxes still end up getting some nasty piece of malware,
    >>> which requires a total reinstallation.
    >>>
    >>> Windows is a poor option for a mobile companion intended for use far away
    >>> from the protection of the corporate network.
    >>>
    >>> Ian

    >>
    >> And yet more than 99% of laptops out there do just that.
    >>
    >> Strange eh?

    >
    > People do all sorts of dangerous things like driving under the influence or
    > having unprotected casual sex.
    >
    > As for the 99% that is rather exaggerated. Firstly, there are more and
    > more


    It was meant to be a statement of "majority" not an accurate number.


    > Macs and Linux netbooks. Next, many corporations try to extend the


    More and more yes. And more and more Windows ones. Windows dominates the
    netbook sales.

    > protection of the corporate network by only permitting networking through a
    > VPN back to the protected network. This may not be perfect, but it is
    > better than the alternative, which is the equivalent to having unprotected
    > sex with a local in central Africa.


    You seem to forget ssh and the like exist for Windows too.

    >
    > Keeping the mobile staff safe and secure is costing corporations an ever
    > increasing amount of money. Some have already moved their mobile staff onto
    > Macs.


    Good for them. Most stick with Windows and it works for them. I used to
    carry a DELL latitude running Db/2 oracle and SQL Server all running
    flawlessly on XP. It was docked back in the office and had a modem for
    dial up (late 90s). Worked flawlessly and I never had a compromised
    system. The lies told in COLA are generally FUD as anyone knows. A FAR
    bigger issue is people not encrypting their HDs or losing their removal
    media.

    Linux would be much better for security, yes. But dont delude yourself
    or others. Linux has made little inroads into corporation laptops which
    are used to run MS Office and demonstrate proprietary closed source
    SW. There is little, if any, market for that in the Linux world.

    >
    > It is only a matter of time before other alternatives such as Linux are
    > investigated. Microsoft has the FUD machine running at full revs to delay
    > that day as long as possible, but it will happen.
    >
    > Ian


    This year? When? I think it's missed the boat. I have seen one Linux
    equipped EEE out there and zero full laptops running Linux other than my
    Debian Thinkpad. I have seen many, many Macs. And them's the facts. No
    one can convince me that Linux has made anything more than a tiny tiny
    inroad into the laptop world.


  9. Re: Linux PDA

    On Nov 10, 10:46 am, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    > Hadron wrote:
    > > Ian Hilliard writes:


    > >> Windows is a poor option for a mobile companion intended for use far away
    > >> from the protection of the corporate network.


    > >> Ian


    > > And yet more than 99% of laptops out there do just that.


    Probably more like about 25% of the laptops. Most laptops have a
    number of protection layers and are normally used behind a protected
    firewall - even WiFi hubs contain their own firewalls to prevent
    inbound connections to the laptops.

    > > Strange eh?


    > Wrong. When subtracting the Mac laptops, we are already below the 90% mark.
    > And strangely enough for a wintroll like Hadron Quark, lots of laptops run
    > just fine with linux. Lets be generous and give wintendo laptops a 86% mark
    > here.


    Figure that about 1/2 are corporate configuration laptops. As a
    result, many "features" such as running certain types of ActiveX
    controls, are disabled. Most also have 3rd party firewall and
    antivirus software which MUST be updated automatically on a regular
    basis.

    Many of these laptops also route ALL traffic through the corporate
    VPN, so that they can track and audit activity that results in
    successful malware attacks.

    Even most home computers are connected via an ISP that has firewalls,
    and often through a router or WiFi router - which adds even more
    protection. This is often at least 1 layer of NAT routing.

    More and more e-mail providers are running antivirus on both the
    server and the client, as well as spam filters.

    > As usual, Hadron Quark, the "true linux advocate" and "kernel hacker" is
    > vastly exaggerating windows importance.


    Hadrian is one of the better informed advocates, and tends to argue
    for standards such as LSB 3.1 desktop standards, which is a legitimate
    argument.

    Most Wintrolls assume that just because 99.5% of all standard PCs are
    sold with Windows, that this is the ONLY operating system they could
    EVER run. There seems to be some pretty positive indicators that
    millions of PCs are "enhanced" by adding Linux to them, in many cases
    the machines are capable of running both Linux and Windows at the same
    time. There are also indicators that millions of machines are being
    converted to Linux when they become too old and obsolete to run
    current versions of Windows. Vista has not generated as much of a
    market for the old machines, because most users dislike Vista so much
    that they install XP on it if they can, and Virtualization software
    based on Linux is making it possible for many of these new machines to
    run XP more easily. All of these choices require a legitimate
    Microsoft OS License (Vista or XP Professional), which is helping
    Microsoft sell more "Vista" machines. In fact, Microsoft has even
    gotten premiums by selling upgrades to Vista Business - to legally
    support the downgrade to XP professional.

    > It is far less then his "more than
    > 99%" figure, and diminishing. When we now take the new netbooks into
    > account where the linux figures are at around 30%, one can clearly see that
    > this astroturfing shill is off his meds again


    ASUS reports that Linux is now 60% of the models where customers can
    choose between Linux with fully functional Open Office and a "bare
    bones" version of XP with Works.

    > The Day Microsoft makes something that does not suck is probably
    > the day they start making vacuum cleaners.


    LOL

    Actually, Windows 2000 was actually pretty good. Probably Microsoft's
    best OS ever. Unfortunately, it wasn't profitable because most
    corporate customers had been promised free upgrades and had been
    promised that NT 5.0/Windows 2000 would NOT require expensive hardware
    upgrades.

    It took Microsoft 3 years to deliver Windows 2000 and just a few
    months later, Microsoft was trying to force-feed these same companies
    Windows XP upgrades - with a significant increase in their maintenance
    contract prices.

    We're already seeing the Microsoft "VaporWare" campaign, with "leaked"
    copies of "Windows 7" which are supposedly pretty functional.
    Microsoft expects to get it out sometime in 2010 which means it will
    probably be GA in 2011 or 2012, and won't be "Stable" enough for
    corporate use until 2013 or later.

    Rumors are that the new administration may opt to implement new OPEN
    standards, including standards based on Open Source software. This
    could break the "applications barrier" much lower, allowing more
    government and corporate workstations to run on Linux alone.


  10. Re: Linux PDA

    Rex Ballard writes:

    > On Nov 10, 10:46 am, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >> > Ian Hilliard writes:

    >
    >> >> Windows is a poor option for a mobile companion intended for use far away
    >> >> from the protection of the corporate network.

    >
    >> >> Ian

    >
    >> > And yet more than 99% of laptops out there do just that.

    >
    > Probably more like about 25% of the laptops. Most laptops have a
    > number of protection layers and are normally used behind a protected
    > firewall - even WiFi hubs contain their own firewalls to prevent
    > inbound connections to the laptops.


    What total and utter nonsense. "Out there". Mobile laptops are used the
    world over via wireless and wireless networks.

    >
    >> > Strange eh?

    >
    >> Wrong. When subtracting the Mac laptops, we are already below the 90% mark.
    >> And strangely enough for a wintroll like Hadron Quark, lots of laptops run
    >> just fine with linux. Lets be generous and give wintendo laptops a 86% mark
    >> here.

    >
    > Figure that about 1/2 are corporate configuration laptops. As a
    > result, many "features" such as running certain types of ActiveX
    > controls, are disabled. Most also have 3rd party firewall and
    > antivirus software which MUST be updated automatically on a regular
    > basis.


    And the problem with that? Of COURSE I am not saying you can run an
    unprotected laptop.

    *snip more Peter drivel and Rexx fantasy*

    You see the problem is that our eyes do not lie. We know the majority
    out there are Windows.

    I even acknowledged that Linux would be more secure BUT it doesnt
    provide the platform that the majority of business travellers use. And
    that, my dear COLA fibbers, is Windows as you very well know.

    So, rather than tell lies and live in cuckoo land ADVOCATE WHY Linux
    WOULD be better but be honest and acknowledge that Windows is the clear
    market leader. Linux most certainly is not - not even in netbook land.

  11. Re: Linux PDA

    Hadron wrote:
    > Rex Ballard writes:
    >
    >> Figure that about 1/2 are corporate configuration laptops.
    >> As a result, many "features" such as running certain types
    >> of ActiveX controls, are disabled. Most also have 3rd party
    >> firewall and antivirus software which MUST be updated
    >> automatically on a regular basis.

    >
    > And the problem with that? Of COURSE I am not saying you can
    > run an unprotected laptop.
    >
    > *snip more Peter drivel and Rexx fantasy*
    >
    > You see the problem is that our eyes do not lie. We know the
    > majority out there are Windows.
    >
    > I even acknowledged that Linux would be more secure BUT it
    > doesnt provide the platform that the majority of business
    > travellers use. And that, my dear COLA fibbers, is Windows as
    > you very well know.
    >
    > So, rather than tell lies and live in cuckoo land ADVOCATE WHY
    > Linux WOULD be better but be honest and acknowledge that
    > Windows is the clear market leader. Linux most certainly is
    > not - not even in netbook land.


    Hadron confirms once again, that he is nothing more than a Wintroll.

    This is another example of an ad hominem attack against the
    posters, rather than address the issues the posters brings forth.

    http://tantek.pbwiki.com/TrollTaxonomy

    Ad hominem troll

    Ad hominem troll at its simplest, will attack people personally,
    rather than the merits of their statements or methodologies.

    The ad hominem troll often has already lost a rational argument
    about a topic, and thus its goal is to change the argument from
    being about a topic, to being about the people opposed to the
    troll (which could mean any/all rational person(s) in the
    discussion), in the hopes of both discrediting people's ideas
    indirectly by discrediting the people, and engendering an
    emotional reaction from the people by attacking their egos /
    self-image. The "getting a reaction out of" goal is common to
    most troll types.

    The simple ad hominem troll is easily detected and dealt with by
    calling them on their ad hominem attacks.

    However, often ad hominem troll will start its discourse with
    seemingly reasonable commentary, perhaps an analogy etc. Using
    rational tone, they may lull you into thinking that they are
    rational in general and thus their entire message should be
    considered rational. Once they have established such an
    impression, then they will then descend into personal attacks
    which may even sound reasonably worded, until you recognize them
    for what they are, nothing more than personal attacks.

    Example: thacker. thacker starts by ignoring the previous comment
    (which itself was a rational challenge to thacker's earlier
    statements), repeating himself (see the section below on
    Repeating themselves), then moves onto an analogy. Afterwards he
    continues with personal attacks, starting subtly worded, then
    increasingly harsh:

    * "some here, yourself included, will not see nor understand
    the parallels"
    * "Your noses are simply buried too deeply into the
    proverbial bark."
    * "Or you lack the courage, will, ability to step away and
    ask the truly difficult questions. That is a shame."
    --
    HPT
    Quando omni flunkus moritati
    (If all else fails, play dead)
    - "Red" Green

  12. Re: Linux PDA

    Hadron wrote:

    > This year? When? I think it's missed the boat. I have seen one Linux
    > equipped EEE out there and zero full laptops running Linux other than my
    > Debian Thinkpad. I have seen many, many Macs. And them's the facts. No
    > one can convince me that Linux has made anything more than a tiny tiny
    > inroad into the laptop world.


    I have seen many many Macs as well. I know of some companies that are
    equipping their "Road Warriors" with Macs. This is of course the thin edge
    of the wedge. Where middle management accepts that it doesn't HAVE to be
    Windows, then it is only a small jump to using Linux.

    In the mean time, I will keep using my little Linux netbook, which gives me
    a reliable stable platform to get my work done.

    Ian

  13. Re: Linux PDA

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Rex Ballard belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > On Nov 10, 10:46 am, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >> As usual, Hadron Quark, the "true linux advocate" and "kernel hacker" is
    >> vastly exaggerating windows importance.

    >
    > Hadrian is one of the better informed advocates, and tends to argue
    > for standards such as LSB 3.1 desktop standards, which is a legitimate
    > argument.


    Now we /know/ you are crazy, Rex!

    And "Hadrian"? "Caligula" might be a better bet.

    > We're already seeing the Microsoft "VaporWare" campaign, with "leaked"
    > copies of "Windows 7" which are supposedly pretty functional.
    > Microsoft expects to get it out sometime in 2010 which means it will
    > probably be GA in 2011 or 2012, and won't be "Stable" enough for
    > corporate use until 2013 or later.
    >
    > Rumors are that the new administration may opt to implement new OPEN
    > standards, including standards based on Open Source software. This
    > could break the "applications barrier" much lower, allowing more
    > government and corporate workstations to run on Linux alone.


    http://www.change.gov

    Searches on "linux" and "open-source" yield 0 results.

    "open standards" yielded 1 bogus result.

    Still, the site is young.

    It also slows down searching tremendously:

    The following errors were encountered

    * You are only allowed to search every 15 seconds.


    --
    Fear is the greatest salesman.
    -- Robert Klein

  14. Re: Linux PDA

    After takin' a swig o' grog, High Plains Thumper belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> Rex Ballard writes:
    >>
    >>> Figure that about 1/2 are corporate configuration laptops.
    >>> As a result, many "features" such as running certain types
    >>> of ActiveX controls, are disabled. Most also have 3rd party
    >>> firewall and antivirus software which MUST be updated
    >>> automatically on a regular basis.

    >>
    >> And the problem with that? Of COURSE I am not saying you can
    >> run an unprotected laptop.
    >>
    >> *snip more Peter drivel and Rexx fantasy*
    >>
    >> You see the problem is that our eyes do not lie. We know the
    >> majority out there are Windows.
    >>
    >> I even acknowledged that Linux would be more secure BUT it
    >> doesnt provide the platform that the majority of business
    >> travellers use. And that, my dear COLA fibbers, is Windows as
    >> you very well know.
    >>
    >> So, rather than tell lies and live in cuckoo land ADVOCATE WHY
    >> Linux WOULD be better but be honest and acknowledge that
    >> Windows is the clear market leader. Linux most certainly is
    >> not - not even in netbook land.

    >
    > Hadron confirms once again, that he is nothing more than a Wintroll.


    He's the cuckoo one, with the 99% number pulled from his posterior orifice.

    "COLA fibbers." What an arrogant asshole.

    > This is another example of an ad hominem attack against the
    > posters, rather than address the issues the posters brings forth.
    >
    > http://tantek.pbwiki.com/TrollTaxonomy
    >
    >
    > Ad hominem troll
    >
    > * "some here, yourself included, will not see nor understand
    > the parallels"
    > * "Your noses are simply buried too deeply into the
    > proverbial bark."
    > * "Or you lack the courage, will, ability to step away and
    > ask the truly difficult questions. That is a shame."
    >


    At least he appears to have dropped the "Steve Townsend" charade.

    --
    Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to
    time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught.
    -- Oscar Wilde, "The Critic as Artist"

  15. Re: Linux PDA

    Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    > High Plains Thumper belched:
    >
    >> Hadron snotted:
    >>>
    >>> Windows is the clear market leader. Linux most certainly is
    >>> not - not even in netbook land.


    Quack, you snotty asshole, you're changing your story.

    You're much worse than a "fibber", Quack, you're a lying POS.

    >> Hadron confirms once again, that he is nothing more than a Wintroll.

    >
    >He's the cuckoo one, with the 99% number pulled from his posterior orifice.
    >
    >"COLA fibbers." What an arrogant asshole.


    >At least he appears to have dropped the "Steve Townsend" charade.


    What a ridiculous cretin, he is.

    --
    Question: Are you actually claiming that because linux supports NTFS
    and VFAT it should also defrag them?

    Hadron Quark's answer: Yes.

  16. Re: Linux PDA

    [snips]

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:24:04 -0800, Rex Ballard wrote:

    >> The Day Microsoft makes something that does not suck is probably the
    >> day they start making vacuum cleaners.

    >
    > LOL
    >
    > Actually, Windows 2000 was actually pretty good.


    You and I obviously have different notions of "good". Yes, Win2K was
    arguably the best version of Windows, but that makes it merely the best
    of the bad, it doesn't make it good.

    Drop a Win2K box - that's *Win2K*, not Win2K plus firewall, plus AV, etc,
    etc, etc, onto Joe Sixpack's machine and give him a public IP. See how
    long the box lasts before being compromised. Now do the same with, oh,
    Ubuntu or OSX. See if you can spot exactly why Win2K simply can't
    qualify as "good".

    What's the current lag time? Last I heard, an unprotected Windows box
    had a life expectancy on the net of about a minute before being
    compromised.


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