"Clogwog" schreef in bericht
news:gf1res$v8n$1@news.albasani.net...
> Despite the linux liars like us to believe, Vista is doing very well!
> http://vista.blorge.com/2008/10/21/b...istas-success/
> "Microsoft boss Steve Ballmer says Vista could be one of the company's
> all-time most successful products. While his explanation of the claim
> makes sense, it's another case of a Ballmer statement which won't strike a
> chord with many analysts or computer users.
> The comments came in a recent speech in Brazil. Asked about the impact of
> Vista's poor reception on company morale, he replied:
> Vista is our best selling product ever. So, if that takes too much getting
> over - we're not going to have products that are much more successful than
> Vista has been. We sold over 180 million copies in the first 18 months,
> quite successful."

On 2008-11-07, Clogwog was urged to write the following:

> Vista is our best selling product ever. So, if that takes too much getting
> over - we're not going to have products that are much more successful than
> Vista has been. We sold over 180 million copies in the first 18 months,
> quite successful."

Doesn't surprise me. There are being more computers sold than ever,
and almost all of them come with Vista pre-installed.

~ Tommy
--
Lisa, vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos.
~ Homer J. Simpson

On Nov 7, 12:15 pm, TomB wrote:
> On 2008-11-07, Clogwog was urged to write the following:

> > Vista is our best selling product ever. So, if that takes too much getting
> > over - we're not going to have products that are much more successful than
> > Vista has been. We sold over 180 million copies in the first 18 months,
> > quite successful."

> Doesn't surprise me. There are being more computers sold than ever,
> and almost all of them come with Vista pre-installed.

Keep in mind that Microsoft permitted the OEMs to "Downgrade" to XP -
but they still purchased a Vista License, so all of the XP machines
sold during the first 18 months were reported to Microsoft as "Vista
sales".

Today, Microsoft requires that the OEMs ship the machine with Vista
installed, but for $20 the OEMs will give you XP "Downgrade Media".
Corporate customers are purchasing the machines with Vista licenses
but then using their Corporate XP images to "Downgrade" the machines
to XP. About 80% of the "Vista" machines sold to corporate customers
have been downgraded to XP. Nobody knows how many consumer vista
machines have been downgraded to XP in the last 12 months (since they
couldn't be ordered that way).

In addition, many of these downgrades are being done by using Linux
and virtualization to eliminate hardware incompatibility problems.
Many newer machines can't run with XP in native mode, so rather than
trying to dig up drivers, users are using Linux and VMWare or Xen to
provide an XP friendly hardware image.

The other bit of Bad news for Microsoft, is that PC sales have been
slowing, while Mac and sub-notebook sales are climbing.

The big question is "How long before OEMs start insisting on complete
configuration control so they can install their own combinations of
Linux and XP". The OEMs don't want Vista, they want the same deal
that Apple got, where they can put their own OS on the PC, and have XP
as a virtual client.

Unfortunately, this may require that an OEM like ACER or ASUS simply
refuses to license one of their lines for Windows and sells the
machines with a pre-installed version of Linux with no windows, and
puts it on retail shelves. With a new administration - it's likely
that any attempt by Microsoft to prevent the display of these new
Linux machines would result in government sanctions.

Rex Ballard espoused:
>
>
> On Nov 7, 12:15 pm, TomB wrote:
>> On 2008-11-07, Clogwog was urged to write the following:
>
>> > Vista is our best selling product ever. So, if that takes too much getting
>> > over - we're not going to have products that are much more successful than
>> > Vista has been. We sold over 180 million copies in the first 18 months,
>> > quite successful."
>
>> Doesn't surprise me. There are being more computers sold than ever,
>> and almost all of them come with Vista pre-installed.
>
> Keep in mind that Microsoft permitted the OEMs to "Downgrade" to XP -
> but they still purchased a Vista License, so all of the XP machines
> sold during the first 18 months were reported to Microsoft as "Vista
> sales".
>
> Today, Microsoft requires that the OEMs ship the machine with Vista
> installed, but for $20 the OEMs will give you XP "Downgrade Media".
> Corporate customers are purchasing the machines with Vista licenses
> but then using their Corporate XP images to "Downgrade" the machines
> to XP. About 80% of the "Vista" machines sold to corporate customers
> have been downgraded to XP. Nobody knows how many consumer vista
> machines have been downgraded to XP in the last 12 months (since they
> couldn't be ordered that way).
>



It's quite funny to consider how many sales there have, apparently, been
of Vista, but I've only ever found one person who had it. He didn't
like it at all, incidentally, although it was a work machine, so he
hadn't chosen it anyway.

It's perhaps even more interesting to consider that Microsoft are
slashing their growth predictions for their "most successful product
ever".

Real growth is in the netbook/appliance/mobility space. Vista has zero
presence in that space.

--
| mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
| Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |

"Clogwog" wrote in message
news:gf1res$v8n$1@news.albasani.net...
> Despite the linux liars like us to believe, Vista is doing very well!
> http://vista.blorge.com/2008/10/21/b...istas-success/
> "Microsoft boss Steve Ballmer says Vista could be one of the company's
> all-time most successful products. While his explanation of the claim
> makes sense, it's another case of a Ballmer statement which won't strike a
> chord with many analysts or computer users.
> The comments came in a recent speech in Brazil. Asked about the impact of
> Vista's poor reception on company morale, he replied:
> Vista is our best selling product ever. So, if that takes too much getting
> over - we're not going to have products that are much more successful than
> Vista has been. We sold over 180 million copies in the first 18 months,
> quite successful."
> --
In these days of meganumerology, it is easy to lose perspective here. An
example might help.

This sales volume of the often disrespected Vista is some billion dollars a
month. At that rate of revenue, one could buy all the shares of Red Hat and
Novell, representing the entirety of the successful(?) Linux business, in
less than 4 months. From another point of view, the combined Linux related
sales of Red Hat and Novell, including all service and support, would take
well in excess of 100 years just to match the Vista sales volume to-date.

"Rex Ballard" wrote in message
news:fd313031-39b4-4b1d-b245-75853d4ba330@b31g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
> .... With a new administration - it's likely
> that any attempt by Microsoft to prevent the display of these new
> Linux machines would result in government sanctions.
>
>
Well, Linux certainly needs to be protected and perhaps put on some life
support as well. Like the whooping crane and Hawaiian crow, it would soon
perish if left alone.

amicus_curious wrote:
> "Rex Ballard" wrote...
>
>> .... With a new administration - it's likely that any
>> attempt by Microsoft to prevent the display of these new
>> Linux machines would result in government sanctions.
>
> Well, Linux certainly needs to be protected and perhaps put on
> some life support as well. Like the whooping crane and
> Hawaiian crow, it would soon perish if left alone.

No, rather it is the other way around:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/1...y-the-numbers/

October 24, 2008, 5:29 pm
Microsoft’s Vista Problem, by the Numbers
By Steve Lohr

Microsoft reported a reassuringly solid quarter in tough times on
Thursday, but its Windows business looked weak.

The big Windows unit reported a 2 percent rise in revenue and 4
percent decline in operating income. That is well below the norm
for Microsoft’s lucrative personal operating system business [...]

The Windows problem? It is not selling enough of its Windows
Vista software, the operating system introduced in January 2007.
[...]

The netbook challenge to Microsoft is two-fold.

First, if they run Windows, the machines run a slimmed-down
version of Windows XP. Charles Di Bona of Sanford Bernstein
estimates that Microsoft pockets $30 to $35 on a netbook. By
contrast, he figures that the operating system license fee on a
standard consumer PC, running Vista, is about $70.

The second netbook issue for Microsoft is that many of those
machines run the Linux operating system. (Mr. Di Bona’s Bernstein
colleague, A.M. Sacconaghi, estimates netbooks accounted for that
4.5 to 5 percent of the 10 to 12 percent unit growth of PC sales
in the September quarter.)

Corporations, Mr. Di Bona said, have not upgraded to Vista as
widely or as quickly as they have tended to with past Windows
operating systems. Now, with the economy troubled and corporate
technology budgets squeezed, Vista’s successor stands in the
wings. Microsoft has said that Windows 7 will ship by late next year.

In comparison to Vista, Linux through netbooks is doing very well.

--
HPT

"amicus_curious" schreef in bericht
news:4914910d$0$31525$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster. com...
>
> "Clogwog" wrote in message
> news:gf1res$v8n$1@news.albasani.net...
>> Despite the linux liars like us to believe, Vista is doing very well!
>> http://vista.blorge.com/2008/10/21/b...istas-success/
>> "Microsoft boss Steve Ballmer says Vista could be one of the company's
>> all-time most successful products. While his explanation of the claim
>> makes sense, it's another case of a Ballmer statement which won't strike
>> a chord with many analysts or computer users.
>> The comments came in a recent speech in Brazil. Asked about the impact of
>> Vista's poor reception on company morale, he replied:
>> Vista is our best selling product ever. So, if that takes too much
>> getting over - we're not going to have products that are much more
>> successful than Vista has been. We sold over 180 million copies in the
>> first 18 months, quite successful."
>> --
> In these days of meganumerology, it is easy to lose perspective here. An
> example might help.
>
> This sales volume of the often disrespected Vista is some billion dollars
> a month. At that rate of revenue, one could buy all the shares of Red Hat
> and Novell, representing the entirety of the successful(?) Linux business,
> in less than 4 months. From another point of view, the combined Linux
> related sales of Red Hat and Novell, including all service and support,
> would take well in excess of 100 years just to match the Vista sales
> volume to-date.
>

Ha, ha, of course your right, despite all efforts of linux advocates to make
us believe that linux is on the edge of a "major breakthrough" in the
desktop market.
Since august Linux is going down again!
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

Micoshaft asstroturfing fraudster pounding the sock Clogwog
wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Department of Marketing:


> D

All the PISTA software were licensed not sold you *STUPID* ****!

And Doh! And the micoshaft fan boyee is posting net abuse in a Linux
newsgroups for what? To get paid by micoshaft?

The micoshaft fan boyees need to take more drugs - it juar ain't workin
for them.

In the mean time, all the Linux enthusiasts
bought 1.5 billion+ embedded Linux gadets.
And downloaded more free software than micoshaft had ever created.

http://www.livecdlist.com
http://www.distrowatch.com
http://www.ubuntu.com

"7" schreef in bericht
news:3Z1Rk.23916$vm.11028@newsfe08.ams2...
> Micoshaft asstroturfing fraudster pounding the sock Clogwog
> wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Department of Marketing:
>
>
>> D
>
> All the PISTA..............


zzzzzzz SNORE | FART zzzzzzz

Vista: 18 months, 180 million copies sold ... to retailers and OEMs.

Currently available in a dusty overstuffed warehouse near you.

Windows: Where Would You Like Us To Stuff It Today?

--
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
| the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
| weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
21:13:31 up 2 days, 4:56, 4 users, load average: 0.11, 0.24, 0.18

"High Plains Thumper" wrote in message
news:4914a693$0$17066$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org...

>No, rather it is the other way around:

Well you take the piddly amounts of revenue from the 20 to 30% of netbook
sales in exchange for the $12B of Vista sales and smile. Keep telling
yourself how you are winning the struggle. It will keep you sane.

"Blessed are the chumps,..."

> Rat wrote:
>>
>> "Rex Ballard" wrote...
>>>
>>> .... With a new administration - it's likely that any
>>> attempt by Microsoft to prevent the display of these new
>>> Linux machines would result in government sanctions.
>>
>> Well, Linux certainly needs to be protected and perhaps put on
>> some life support as well. Like the whooping crane and
>> Hawaiian crow, it would soon perish if left alone.

Oh, is that why it has grown, and continues to grow, in the face of
government apathy and corporate bribery, Rat? Much to your chagrin,
it seems to be quite resilient against **** like you and your masters.

After takin' a swig o' grog, chrisv belched out
this bit o' wisdom:

>> Rat wrote:
>>>
>>> "Rex Ballard" wrote...
>>>>
>>>> .... With a new administration - it's likely that any
>>>> attempt by Microsoft to prevent the display of these new
>>>> Linux machines would result in government sanctions.
>>>
>>> Well, Linux certainly needs to be protected and perhaps put on
>>> some life support as well. Like the whooping crane and
>>> Hawaiian crow, it would soon perish if left alone.
>
> Oh, is that why it has grown, and continues to grow, in the face of
> government apathy and corporate bribery, Rat? Much to your chagrin,
> it seems to be quite resilient against **** like you and your masters.

Resilient. A good word for Linux. GNU/Linux.

--
Life only demands from you the strength you possess.
Only one feat is possible -- not to have run away.
-- Dag Hammarskjold

Clogwog (Rick Mathers) wrote:

> Ha, ha, of course your right, despite all efforts of linux
> advocates to make us believe that linux is on the edge of a
> "major breakthrough" in the desktop market. Since august Linux
> is going down again!
>
> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

Interesting, US (42% hits) and 1st world countries interests in
Linux are up.

Oct-2008 - 3.8%
Nov-2003 - 2.6%
Net Gain - 1.2%

Where is Flatfish's 0.6%?

However, tallying all Windows in the chart:

Oct-2008 - 90.7%
Nov-2003 - 93.7%
Net Loss - 3.0%

Bummer, Windows.

--
HPT

High Plains Thumper wrote:
> Clogwog (Rick Mathers) wrote:
>
>> Ha, ha, of course your right, despite all efforts of linux
>> advocates to make us believe that linux is on the edge of a
>> "major breakthrough" in the desktop market. Since august Linux
>> is going down again!
>>
>> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
>
> Interesting, US (42% hits) and 1st world countries interests in
> Linux are up.
>
> Oct-2008 - 3.8%
> Nov-2003 - 2.6%
> Net Gain - 1.2%

Only in your wildest DREAMS do 4 of 100 people run Linux.



> Where is Flatfish's 0.6%?
>
> However, tallying all Windows in the chart:
>
> Oct-2008 - 90.7%
> Nov-2003 - 93.7%
> Net Loss - 3.0%
>
> Bummer, Windows.

Where else do you go from 94% market share?

7 wrote:
> Micoshaft asstroturfing fraudster pounding the sock Clogwog
> wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Department of Marketing:
>
>
>> D
>
> All the PISTA software were licensed not sold you *STUPID* ****!

Indeed. How many of those so-called "buyers" ASKED for Vista after
trying it? Shall we take a guess? Four. Just four. They're in here
making money from it.

amicus_curious wrote:
> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>> amicus_curious wrote:
>>> "Rex Ballard" wrote...
>>>
>>>> .... With a new administration - it's likely that any
>>>> attempt by Microsoft to prevent the display of these new
>>>> Linux machines would result in government sanctions.
>>>
>>> Well, Linux certainly needs to be protected and perhaps
>>> put on some life support as well. Like the whooping crane
>>> and Hawaiian crow, it would soon perish if left alone.
>>
>> No, rather it is the other way around:
>>
>> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/1...y-the-numbers/
>>
>>

October 24, 2008, 5:29 pm
>> Microsoft’s Vista Problem, by the Numbers
>> By Steve Lohr
>>
>> Microsoft reported a reassuringly solid quarter in tough
>> times on Thursday, but its Windows business looked weak.
>>
>> The big Windows unit reported a 2 percent rise in revenue
>> and 4 percent decline in operating income. That is well
>> below the norm for Microsoft’s lucrative personal operating
>> system business [...]
>>
>> The Windows problem? It is not selling enough of its Windows
>> Vista software, the operating system introduced in January
>> 2007. [...]
>>
>> The netbook challenge to Microsoft is two-fold.
>>
>> First, if they run Windows, the machines run a slimmed-down
>> version of Windows XP. Charles Di Bona of Sanford Bernstein
>> estimates that Microsoft pockets $30 to $35 on a netbook. By
>> contrast, he figures that the operating system license fee
>> on a standard consumer PC, running Vista, is about $70.
>>
>> The second netbook issue for Microsoft is that many of those
>> machines run the Linux operating system. (Mr. Di Bona’s
>> Bernstein colleague, A.M. Sacconaghi, estimates netbooks
>> accounted for that 4.5 to 5 percent of the 10 to 12 percent
>> unit growth of PC sales in the September quarter.)
>>
>> Corporations, Mr. Di Bona said, have not upgraded to Vista
>> as widely or as quickly as they have tended to with past
>> Windows operating systems. Now, with the economy troubled
>> and corporate technology budgets squeezed, Vista’s successor
>> stands in the wings. Microsoft has said that Windows 7 will
>> ship by late next year.

>>
>> In comparison to Vista, Linux through netbooks is doing very
>> well.
>
> Well you take the piddly amounts of revenue from the 20 to 30%
> of netbook sales in exchange for the $12B of Vista sales and
> smile. Keep telling yourself how you are winning the
> struggle. It will keep you sane.
>
> "Blessed are the chumps,..."

Rather sad conclusion that must end with an insult. This is an
example of:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

[quote]
7.6 Trespasser Disinformation Tactics

This is a list of the disinformation tactics that the that
the anti-Linux propagandists who post in COLA have been using.
All of these tactics have been used in COLA by the anti-Linux
propagandists against the Linux advocates and the rest of the
COLA readership to further the cause of the anti-Linux
propagandists. This list has been worded as though you are one of
them, so that you can better see through their eyes how they
think. [...]

[3.] Put your opponent off guard by insulting him. The
liberal use of profanity and vulgarisms can be very effective,
particularly when used against you more dignified opponents.
Your experience as a school yard bully can be handy here.

Insinuations regarding saneness is an example of:

http://tantek.pbwiki.com/TrollTaxonomy

Ad hominem troll

Ad hominem troll at its simplest, will attack people personally,
rather than the merits of their statements or methodologies.

The ad hominem troll often has already lost a rational argument
about a topic, and thus its goal is to change the argument from
being about a topic, to being about the people opposed to the
troll (which could mean any/all rational person(s) in the
discussion), in the hopes of both discrediting people's ideas
indirectly by discrediting the people, and engendering an
emotional reaction from the people by attacking their egos /
self-image. The "getting a reaction out of" goal is common to
most troll types.

The simple ad hominem troll is easily detected and dealt with by
calling them on their ad hominem attacks.

However, often ad hominem troll will start its discourse with
seemingly reasonable commentary, perhaps an analogy etc. Using
rational tone, they may lull you into thinking that they are
rational in general and thus their entire message should be
considered rational. Once they have established such an
impression, then they will then descend into personal attacks
which may even sound reasonably worded, until you recognize them
for what they are, nothing more than personal attacks.

Example: thacker. thacker starts by ignoring the previous comment
(which itself was a rational challenge to thacker's earlier
statements), repeating himself (see the section below on
Repeating themselves), then moves onto an analogy. Afterwards he
continues with personal attacks, starting subtly worded, then
increasingly harsh:

* "some here, yourself included, will not see nor understand
the parallels"
* "Your noses are simply buried too deeply into the
proverbial bark."
* "Or you lack the courage, will, ability to step away and
ask the truly difficult questions. That is a shame."

--
HPT

"High Plains Thumper" wrote in message
news:4914da17$0$17069$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org...

>
> However, tallying all Windows in the chart:
>
> Oct-2008 - 90.7%
> Nov-2003 - 93.7%
> Net Loss - 3.0%
>
Yet Windows client platform revenues have more than doubled in that period.