[News] Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales - Linux ; Small laptops are becoming a big problem for Microsoft Corp.'s Windows business.... Acer Inc. and Asustek Computer...are using the rival Linux software on about 30 percent of their low-cost notebooks. Windows sales fell short of forecasts last quarter and the ...

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  1. [News] Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales


    Small laptops are becoming a big problem for Microsoft Corp.'s Windows
    business.... Acer Inc. and Asustek Computer...are using the rival
    Linux software on about 30 percent of their low-cost notebooks.

    Windows sales fell short of forecasts last quarter and the company cut
    growth projections for the year, citing the lower revenue it gets from
    netbooks. When makers of the computers do use Windows, they typically
    opt for older and cheaper versions of the software.

    ``It's a real threat to Microsoft,'' said Dickie Chang, an analyst at
    research firm IDC in Taipei. ``It gives users a chance to see and try
    something new, showing them there is an alternative.''...

    Linux, equipped in 30 percent to 40 percent of Eee PCs sold, will
    probably sustain a market share of about 30 percent, said Samson Hu, a
    general manager at Asustek. The company estimates it will ship at
    least 5 million Eee PCs in 2008 after selling about 4 million since
    the product's debut....

    Microsoft cut projection for Windows growth for the rest of the year
    to as little as 2 percent, below a previous forecast of 9 percent to
    10 percent, after sales from PC versions of Windows grew less than the
    company had estimated last quarter....

    Equipping Linux on a computer costs about $5, compared with $40 to $50
    for XP and about $100 for Vista, according to estimates by Jenny Lai,
    a Taipei-based analyst at CLSA Ltd.

    To cut costs, computer makers such as Acer and Asustek opted for
    slower processors and less memory. On these systems, Linux can boot up
    twice as fast as XP, according to Acer's Web Site.

    ``The engineers designing computers understand that if they want to
    cut costs, the only way to do so is to get rid of Microsoft,'' IDC's
    Chang said.


    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...wwE&refer=news

  2. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    On Nov 6, 11:02 am, "ness...@wigner.berkeley.edu"
    wrote:
    >
    > Small laptops are becoming a big problem for Microsoft Corp.'s Windows
    > business.... Acer Inc. and Asustek Computer...are using the rival
    > Linux software on about 30 percent of their low-cost notebooks.


    Acer has been shipping about 30% Linux and 70% XP machines - but the
    XP machines have hard drives and a cellular modem card that can be
    used with any SIM. The XP machines are also priced about 20-30%
    higher.

    ASUS reports sales of more like 60% Linux to 40% XP because Retailers
    can charge almost the same for both machines, but the cost on the XP
    versions is substantially higher (more RAM, more storage, software)
    which means far less profit on the XP machines.

    > Windows sales fell short of forecasts last quarter and the company cut
    > growth projections for the year, citing the lower revenue it gets from
    > netbooks. When makers of the computers do use Windows, they typically
    > opt for older and cheaper versions of the software.


    > ``It's a real threat to Microsoft,'' said Dickie Chang, an analyst at
    > research firm IDC in Taipei. ``It gives users a chance to see and try
    > something new, showing them there is an alternative.''...


    In countries where the Linux sub-notebooks are doing best, and are
    widely used, there has been a trend toward more retailers carrying
    machines with "No OS", which easily allows the installation of any
    popular version of Linux in about 20-30 minutes. Vista laptops are
    typically 3-5 times more expensive than the "No OS" machines which are
    often sold with 1 gigabyte of RAM and a smaller hard drive..

    > Linux, equipped in 30 percent to 40 percent of Eee PCs sold, will
    > probably sustain a market share of about 30 percent, said Samson Hu, a
    > general manager at Asustek. The company estimates it will ship at
    > least 5 million Eee PCs in 2008 after selling about 4 million since
    > the product's debut....


    There is the possibility that, eventually, the laptop market could
    grow to 30% Linux (sold as No OS).

    > Microsoft cut projection for Windows growth for the rest of the year
    > to as little as 2 percent, below a previous forecast of 9 percent to
    > 10 percent, after sales from PC versions of Windows grew less than the
    > company had estimated last quarter....


    Microsoft seems to have a negative cash flow. Even though they claim
    that their revenues and profits are up, their balance sheet shows a
    decrease in assets and an increase in liabilities. Microsoft may be
    funding their own channels.

    > Equipping Linux on a computer costs about $5, compared with $40 to $50
    > for XP and about $100 for Vista, according to estimates by Jenny Lai,
    > a Taipei-based analyst at CLSA Ltd.


    Actually, the XP version typically requires about $100 worth of
    additional hardware, specifically RAM and hard drive. This tends to
    either increase prices to the consumer or decrease profit to the
    retailer.

    > To cut costs, computer makers such as Acer and Asustek opted for
    > slower processors and less memory. On these systems, Linux can boot up
    > twice as fast as XP, according to Acer's Web Site.


    Actually, it's even faster that that. The Linux versions boot from
    flash ram, which means that it takes about 30 second to go from no
    power to a fully functional system. The XP version will bring up a
    "desktop" in about 90 seconds, but it can take 3-5 minutes before the
    system is fully functional.

    > ``The engineers designing computers understand that if they want to
    > cut costs, the only way to do so is to get rid of Microsoft,'' IDC's
    > Chang said.
    >


    One of the key factors in the OLPC/Sub-Notebook design is the
    assumption that Linux would be the primary operating system rather
    than Windows. This lowered the hardware requirements and made it
    possible to cut costs as much as 70% compared to a fully functional
    Windows XP Professional laptop running a full version of Microsoft
    Office Professional.

    In order to capture a piece of the OLPC market, Microsoft offered the
    OEMs a stripped down version of XP home edition and a stripped down
    version of Microsoft Works. Even then, it was usually necessary to
    add a hard drive to handle the storage requirements of the larger
    system, and an extra 1/2 gig of RAM to get performance comparable to
    the Linux version.

    ASUS set the MSRP of the Linux versions much higher, so that retailers
    could get more profit from the Linux versions of the machine which
    retails for about %50-80 less than the Windows version. As a result,
    retailers are taking the time to study the ASUS Linux environment and
    can present it effectively to retail customers. As a result, ASUS
    Linux machinse now make up about 60% of their sub-notebook market.

    Acer has simply put a $100-$150 price difference between the Linux
    version and the Windows XP versien. The larger display and keyboard
    make it attractive compared to the ASUS, but the Linux version is a
    bit more of a challenge to configure if you want to add features like
    a USB cellular modem. On the other hand, the Linux version appears to
    have many more applications and more robust applications.

    > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...yE_ofSwwE&refe...



  3. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    Rex Ballard wrote:
    > nessuno wrote:
    >
    >> Small laptops are becoming a big problem for
    >> Microsoft Corp.'s Windows business.... Acer Inc. and Asustek
    >> Computer...are using the rival Linux software on about 30
    >> percent of their low-cost notebooks.

    >
    > Acer has been shipping about 30% Linux and 70% XP machines -
    > but the XP machines have hard drives and a cellular modem card
    > that can be used with any SIM. The XP machines are also
    > priced about 20-30% higher.
    >
    > ASUS reports sales of more like 60% Linux to 40% XP because
    > Retailers can charge almost the same for both machines, but
    > the cost on the XP versions is substantially higher (more RAM,
    > more storage, software) which means far less profit on the XP
    > machines.
    >
    >> Windows sales fell short of forecasts last quarter and the
    >> company cut growth projections for the year, citing the
    >> lower revenue it gets from netbooks. When makers of the
    >> computers do use Windows, they typically opt for older and
    >> cheaper versions of the software.
    >>
    >> ``It's a real threat to Microsoft,'' said Dickie Chang, an
    >> analyst at research firm IDC in Taipei. ``It gives users a
    >> chance to see and try something new, showing them there is
    >> an alternative.''...

    >
    > In countries where the Linux sub-notebooks are doing best, and
    > are widely used, there has been a trend toward more retailers
    > carrying machines with "No OS", which easily allows the
    > installation of any popular version of Linux in about 20-30
    > minutes. Vista laptops are typically 3-5 times more expensive
    > than the "No OS" machines which are often sold with 1 gigabyte
    > of RAM and a smaller hard drive..
    >
    >> Linux, equipped in 30 percent to 40 percent of Eee PCs sold,
    >> will probably sustain a market share of about 30 percent,
    >> said Samson Hu, a general manager at Asustek. The company
    >> estimates it will ship at least 5 million Eee PCs in 2008
    >> after selling about 4 million since the product's debut....

    >
    > There is the possibility that, eventually, the laptop market
    > could grow to 30% Linux (sold as No OS).
    >
    >> Microsoft cut projection for Windows growth for the rest of
    >> the year to as little as 2 percent, below a previous
    >> forecast of 9 percent to 10 percent, after sales from PCe
    >> versions of Windows grew less than the company had estimated
    >> last quarter....

    >
    > Microsoft seems to have a negative cash flow. Even though
    > they claim that their revenues and profits are up, their
    > balance sheet shows a decrease in assets and an increase in
    > liabilities. Microsoft may be funding their own channels.


    Vista has tanked, not the profit maker they originally thought
    of. With the downturn in the worldwide economic situation, going
    to faster, premium equipped PC's with a more expensive operating
    system goes against the economic times.

    Even XP requires a resource rich environment, which performs not
    as sparkling as Linux on these upper end netbooks. It is
    definitely not suitable on the lower end netbooks, where a
    stripped down version of Linux such as GOS or Linpus shine.

    >> Equipping Linux on a computer costs about $5, compared with
    >> $40 to $50 for XP and about $100 for Vista, according to
    >> estimates by Jenny Lai, a Taipei-based analyst at CLSA Ltd.

    >
    > Actually, the XP version typically requires about $100 worth
    > of additional hardware, specifically RAM and hard drive. This
    > tends to either increase prices to the consumer or decrease
    > profit to the retailer.


    Not to mention also about $50 worth in personal firewall and
    antivirus. Yes, one can opt for a free one, but because of its
    susceptibility to virii and root kits, it is best one not take
    chances with but the best solutions. Even with those,
    functionality is reduced so one ends up with a subscription.

    >> To cut costs, computer makers such as Acer and Asustek opted
    >> for slower processors and less memory. On these systems,
    >> Linux can boot up twice as fast as XP, according to Acer's
    >> Web Site.

    >
    > Actually, it's even faster that that. The Linux versions
    > boot from flash ram, which means that it takes about 30 second
    > to go from no power to a fully functional system. The XP
    > version will bring up a "desktop" in about 90 seconds, but it
    > can take 3-5 minutes before the system is fully functional.


    Actually, the lite versions of Linux off hard disk are quick
    also. Thicker versions such as Ubuntu on my older Dell C600, 850
    Mhz 512 MB laptop boot up quicker than Windows 2000, that it came
    bundled with.

    --
    HPT

  4. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    In article
    <351c9ab8-5483-4cbc-ba35-b905bf3f5b38@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
    Rex Ballard wrote:
    >
    > ASUS reports sales of more like 60% Linux to 40% XP because Retailers


    ASUS reports 70% XP to 30% Linux:




    --
    --Tim Smith

  5. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    Tim Smith wrote:

    >


    "Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our paid
    subscribers."

    **** off!

    Imagine having to pay to receive positive news about Windows? LOLzoids!

  6. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Cork Soaker on Friday 07 November 2008 09:09 : \____

    >
    >
    > Tim Smith wrote:
    >
    >>

    >
    > "Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our paid
    > subscribers."
    >
    > **** off!
    >
    > Imagine having to pay to receive positive news about Windows? LOLzoids!


    Yes, it needs paying for because it's hard to find such news these days
    (positive news about Windows).

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Microsoft loves competition.
    "I’d be glad to help tilt lotus into into the death spiral. I could do it
    Friday afternoon but not Saturday. I could do it pretty much any time the
    following week."
    --Brad Silverberg, Microsoft
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    =6Okr
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  7. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > In article
    > <351c9ab8-5483-4cbc-ba35-b905bf3f5b38@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
    > Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>
    >> ASUS reports sales of more like 60% Linux to 40% XP because Retailers

    >
    > ASUS reports 70% XP to 30% Linux:
    >
    >


    Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our paid
    subscribers.

    --
    italic, adj:
    Slanted to the right to emphasize key phrases. Unique to
    Western alphabets; in Eastern languages, the same phrases
    are often slanted to the left.

  8. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > ____/ Cork Soaker on Friday 07 November 2008 09:09 : \____
    >
    >> Tim Smith wrote:
    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >> "Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our paid
    >> subscribers."
    >>
    >> **** off!
    >>
    >> Imagine having to pay to receive positive news about Windows? LOLzoids!

    >
    > Yes, it needs paying for because it's hard to find such news these days
    > (positive news about Windows).


    Actually, it is positive news about Linux!

    When given a real choice, people do not "resoundingly reject Linux".

    --
    Yours is not to reason why, Just to Sail Away.
    And when you find you have to throw Your Legacy away;
    Remember life as was it is, And is as it were;
    Chasing sounds across the galaxy 'Till silence is but a blur. -- QYX.

  9. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> ____/ Cork Soaker on Friday 07 November 2008 09:09 : \____
    >>
    >>> Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>> "Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our paid
    >>> subscribers."
    >>>
    >>> **** off!
    >>>
    >>> Imagine having to pay to receive positive news about Windows? LOLzoids!

    >> Yes, it needs paying for because it's hard to find such news these days
    >> (positive news about Windows).

    >
    > Actually, it is positive news about Linux!
    >
    > When given a real choice, people do not "resoundingly reject Linux".
    >


    Still not paying, there's enough free good news out there.

  10. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Friday 07 November 2008 12:12 : \____

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> In article
    >> <351c9ab8-5483-4cbc-ba35-b905bf3f5b38@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
    >> Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>>
    >>> ASUS reports sales of more like 60% Linux to 40% XP because Retailers

    >>
    >> ASUS reports 70% XP to 30% Linux:
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our paid
    > subscribers.


    Linux Carried Along on Netbooks Wave

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Morvay revealed to Linux Magazine Online that there were no specific figures
    | for Linux netbook sales, but that it lay somewhere in the 40th percentile.
    | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    | Even though this figure seems a little high, it is known that many of the
    | world's netbooks have Linux on board since their first inception 18 months
    | ago.
    |
    | For example, notebooks with Linux make up about 5.5% of the notebook market
    | in Germany...
    `----

    http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/onli..._netbooks_wave

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Windows is 'intuitive': go to 'Start' to finish
    session
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 140 total, 1 running, 139 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
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  11. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    "Tim Smith" schreef in bericht
    news:reply_in_group-9EBC44.18443706112008@news.supernews.com...
    > In article
    > <351c9ab8-5483-4cbc-ba35-b905bf3f5b38@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
    > Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>
    >> ASUS reports sales of more like 60% Linux to 40% XP because Retailers

    >
    > ASUS reports 70% XP to 30% Linux:
    >
    >
    >

    And the questions about how to install Windows on a linux EEEPC are
    overwhelming, nobody wants Linux crapware!
    http://archive.atomicmpc.com.au/foru...=2&c=21&t=1979


  12. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales


    "Rex Ballard" wrote in message
    news:351c9ab8-5483-4cbc-ba35-b905bf3f5b38@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

    Why do you so disrespect the intelligence of the readers here, Rex Ballard?
    You selectively cite and then pull numbers out of your ass that are directly
    disputed by your own citation. Do you not bother to read what you quote or
    do you think that we are so stupid as to not be able to check on your
    fantasies? Either way it is a sloppy and useless endavor on your part. You
    should be ashamed.


  13. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales


    "Chris Ahlstrom" wrote in message
    news:ubWQk.58970$bx1.49873@bignews1.bellsouth.net. ..
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> In article
    >> <351c9ab8-5483-4cbc-ba35-b905bf3f5b38@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
    >> Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>>
    >>> ASUS reports sales of more like 60% Linux to 40% XP because Retailers

    >>
    >> ASUS reports 70% XP to 30% Linux:
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our paid
    > subscribers.
    >

    "Linux, equipped in 30 percent to 40 percent of Eee PCs sold, will probably
    sustain a market share of about 30 percent, said Samson Hu, a general
    manager at Asustek. The company estimates it will ship at least 5 million
    Eee PCs in 2008 after selling about 4 million since the product's debut.

    Acer, which is aiming to sell 5 million to 6 million AspireOne laptops this
    year, estimates that Linux-equipped models account for about 20 percent of
    its shipments, spokesman Henry Wang said. "

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...yE_ofSwwE&refe


  14. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales


    "Chris Ahlstrom" wrote in message
    news:JcWQk.58972$bx1.33189@bignews1.bellsouth.net. ..
    >
    > Actually, it is positive news about Linux!
    >
    > When given a real choice, people do not "resoundingly reject Linux".
    >

    70 vs 30, 80 vs 20, take your pick.

    But if it were Obama vs McCain and either of those numbers came in, you
    would look kind of stupid claiming that it was not a resounding rejection.

    Of course if you are used to 99 to 1 maybe it looks a lot better to you.


  15. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    amicus_curious wrote:
    > Rex Ballard wrote:
    >> nessuno wrote:
    >>
    >>> Small laptops are becoming a big problem for
    >>> Microsoft Corp.'s Windows business.... Acer Inc. and
    >>> Asustek Computer...are using the rival Linux software on
    >>> about 30 percent of their low-cost notebooks. [...]

    >>
    >> One of the key factors in the OLPC/Sub-Notebook design is
    >> the assumption that Linux would be the primary operating
    >> system rather than Windows. This lowered the hardware
    >> requirements and made it possible to cut costs as much as
    >> 70% compared to a fully functional Windows XP Professional
    >> laptop running a full version of Microsoft Office
    >> Professional.
    >>
    >> In order to capture a piece of the OLPC market, Microsoft
    >> offered the OEMs a stripped down version of XP home edition
    >> and a stripped down version of Microsoft Works. Even then,
    >> it was usually necessary to add a hard drive to handle the
    >> storage requirements of the larger system, and an extra 1/2
    >> gig of RAM to get performance comparable to the Linux
    >> version.
    >>
    >> ASUS set the MSRP of the Linux versions much higher, so that
    >> retailers could get more profit from the Linux versions of
    >> the machine which retails for about %50-80 less than the
    >> Windows version. As a result, retailers are taking the time
    >> to study the ASUS Linux environment and can present it
    >> effectively to retail customers. As a result, ASUS Linux
    >> machinse now make up about 60% of their sub-notebook market.
    >>
    >> Acer has simply put a $100-$150 price difference between the
    >> Linux version and the Windows XP versien. The larger
    >> display and keyboard make it attractive compared to the
    >> ASUS, but the Linux version is a bit more of a challenge to
    >> configure if you want to add features like a USB cellular
    >> modem. On the other hand, the Linux version appears to have
    >> many more applications and more robust applications.
    >>
    >>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...wwE&refer=news

    >
    > Why do you so disrespect the intelligence of the readers here,
    > Rex Ballard? You selectively cite and then pull numbers out of
    > your ass that are directly disputed by your own citation. Do
    > you not bother to read what you quote or do you think that we
    > are so stupid as to not be able to check on your fantasies?
    > Either way it is a sloppy and useless endavor on your part.
    > You should be ashamed.


    This is an example of an ad hominem attack:

    http://tantek.pbwiki.com/TrollTaxonomy

    Ad hominem troll

    Ad hominem troll at its simplest, will attack people personally,
    rather than the merits of their statements or methodologies.

    The ad hominem troll often has already lost a rational argument
    about a topic, and thus its goal is to change the argument from
    being about a topic, to being about the people opposed to the
    troll (which could mean any/all rational person(s) in the
    discussion), in the hopes of both discrediting people's ideas
    indirectly by discrediting the people, and engendering an
    emotional reaction from the people by attacking their egos /
    self-image. The "getting a reaction out of" goal is common to
    most troll types.

    The simple ad hominem troll is easily detected and dealt with by
    calling them on their ad hominem attacks.

    However, often ad hominem troll will start its discourse with
    seemingly reasonable commentary, perhaps an analogy etc. Using
    rational tone, they may lull you into thinking that they are
    rational in general and thus their entire message should be
    considered rational. Once they have established such an
    impression, then they will then descend into personal attacks
    which may even sound reasonably worded, until you recognize them
    for what they are, nothing more than personal attacks.

    Example: thacker. thacker starts by ignoring the previous comment
    (which itself was a rational challenge to thacker's earlier
    statements), repeating himself (see the section below on
    Repeating themselves), then moves onto an analogy. Afterwards he
    continues with personal attacks, starting subtly worded, then
    increasingly harsh:

    * "some here, yourself included, will not see nor understand
    the parallels"
    * "Your noses are simply buried too deeply into the
    proverbial bark."
    * "Or you lack the courage, will, ability to step away and
    ask the truly difficult questions. That is a shame."
    --
    HPT

  16. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales


    "High Plains Thumper" wrote in message
    news:4914a927$0$17066$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org...
    >
    > This is an example of an ad hominem attack:
    >

    That comment seems to show a lack of understanding on your part. I wasn't
    at all attacking the ideas posted by Ballard. They are transparently false
    by his own cite. I was attacking Ballards disrespect for the rest of us who
    he presumably tried to fool with his clumsy citations.


  17. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    On 2008-11-07, amicus_curious wrote:
    >
    > "Chris Ahlstrom" wrote in message
    > news:JcWQk.58972$bx1.33189@bignews1.bellsouth.net. ..
    >>
    >> Actually, it is positive news about Linux!
    >>
    >> When given a real choice, people do not "resoundingly reject Linux".
    >>

    > 70 vs 30, 80 vs 20, take your pick.
    >
    > But if it were Obama vs McCain and either of those numbers came in, you
    > would look kind of stupid claiming that it was not a resounding rejection.


    Except this isn't Obama versus McCain.

    This is NADER versus McCain.

    In reality, Linux is more like one of those 3rd parties that
    everyone tells you not to vote for. They tell you not to bother
    because you're just "wasting your fote".

    >
    > Of course if you are used to 99 to 1 maybe it looks a lot better to you.
    >


    Progress is progress.

    Apple has survived and thrived on less.

    This is a consumer product. World domination simply isn't necessary.

    --
    |||
    In a free market, the herd should be irrelevant. / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  18. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales

    amicus_curious wrote:
    > High Plains Thumper wrote:
    >> amicus_curious wrote:
    >>> Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> One of the key factors in the OLPC/Sub-Notebook design
    >>>> is the assumption that Linux would be the primary
    >>>> operating system rather than Windows. This lowered the
    >>>> hardware requirements and made it possible to cut costs
    >>>> as much as 70% compared to a fully functional Windows XP
    >>>> Professional laptop running a full version of Microsoft
    >>>> Office Professional.
    >>>>
    >>>> In order to capture a piece of the OLPC market,
    >>>> Microsoft offered the OEMs a stripped down version of XP
    >>>> home edition and a stripped down version of Microsoft
    >>>> Works. Even then, it was usually necessary to add a
    >>>> hard drive to handle the storage requirements of the
    >>>> larger system, and an extra 1/2 gig of RAM to get
    >>>> performance comparable to the Linux version.
    >>>>
    >>>> ASUS set the MSRP of the Linux versions much higher, so
    >>>> that retailers could get more profit from the Linux
    >>>> versions of the machine which retails for about %50-80
    >>>> less than the Windows version. As a result, retailers
    >>>> are taking the time to study the ASUS Linux environment
    >>>> and can present it effectively to retail customers. As
    >>>> a result, ASUS Linux machinse now make up about 60% of
    >>>> their sub-notebook market.
    >>>>
    >>>> Acer has simply put a $100-$150 price difference between
    >>>> the Linux version and the Windows XP versien. The
    >>>> larger display and keyboard make it attractive compared
    >>>> to the ASUS, but the Linux version is a bit more of a
    >>>> challenge to configure if you want to add features like
    >>>> a USB cellular modem. On the other hand, the Linux
    >>>> version appears to have many more applications and more
    >>>> robust applications.
    >>>>
    >>>> [snip]
    >>>
    >>> Why do you so disrespect the intelligence of the readers
    >>> here, Rex Ballard? You selectively cite and then pull
    >>> numbers out of your ass that are directly disputed by your
    >>> own citation. Do you not bother to read what you quote or
    >>> do you think that we are so stupid as to not be able to
    >>> check on your fantasies? Either way it is a sloppy and
    >>> useless endavor on your part. You should be ashamed.

    >>
    >> This is an example of an ad hominem attack:
    >>
    >> http://tantek.pbwiki.com/TrollTaxonomy
    >>
    >>
    Ad hominem troll
    >>
    >> Ad hominem troll at its simplest, will attack people
    >> personally, rather than the merits of their statements or
    >> methodologies.
    >>
    >> The ad hominem troll often has already lost a rational
    >> argument about a topic, and thus its goal is to change the
    >> argument from being about a topic, to being about the people
    >> opposed to the troll (which could mean any/all rational
    >> person(s) in the discussion), in the hopes of both
    >> discrediting people's ideas indirectly by discrediting the
    >> people, and engendering an emotional reaction from the
    >> people by attacking their egos / self-image. The "getting a
    >> reaction out of" goal is common to most troll types.
    >>
    >> The simple ad hominem troll is easily detected and dealt
    >> with by calling them on their ad hominem attacks.
    >>
    >> However, often ad hominem troll will start its discourse
    >> with seemingly reasonable commentary, perhaps an analogy
    >> etc. Using rational tone, they may lull you into thinking
    >> that they are rational in general and thus their entire
    >> message should be considered rational. Once they have
    >> established such an impression, then they will then descend
    >> into personal attacks which may even sound reasonably
    >> worded, until you recognize them for what they are, nothing
    >> more than personal attacks.
    >>
    >> Example: thacker. thacker starts by ignoring the previous
    >> comment (which itself was a rational challenge to thacker's
    >> earlier statements), repeating himself (see the section
    >> below on Repeating themselves), then moves onto an analogy.
    >> Afterwards he continues with personal attacks, starting
    >> subtly worded, then increasingly harsh:
    >>
    >> * "some here, yourself included, will not see nor
    >> understand the parallels"
    >> * "Your noses are simply buried too deeply into the
    >> proverbial bark."
    >> * "Or you lack the courage, will, ability to step away
    >> and ask the truly difficult questions.
    >> That is a shame."

    >
    > That comment seems to show a lack of understanding on your
    > part. I wasn't at all attacking the ideas posted by Ballard.
    > They are transparently false by his own cite. I was attacking
    > Ballards disrespect for the rest of us who he presumably tried
    > to fool with his clumsy citations.


    Rather sad that this troll must resort to continued personal
    attacks, "lack of understand on your part" rather than
    participate in the discussion, and it admits attacking Mr.
    Ballard, calling his statements a disrespect, clumsy. This is
    attacking the poster rather than addressing the poster's statements.

    Its reply to my message and insinuation of naiveness is a
    continued example of an ad hominem attack, a rather sad failed
    attempt at trolling.

    --
    HPT

  19. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales


    "JEDIDIAH" wrote in message
    news:slrngh9feq.u9s.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
    > On 2008-11-07, amicus_curious wrote:
    >>
    >> "Chris Ahlstrom" wrote in message
    >> news:JcWQk.58972$bx1.33189@bignews1.bellsouth.net. ..
    >>>
    >>> Actually, it is positive news about Linux!
    >>>
    >>> When given a real choice, people do not "resoundingly reject Linux".
    >>>

    >> 70 vs 30, 80 vs 20, take your pick.
    >>
    >> But if it were Obama vs McCain and either of those numbers came in, you
    >> would look kind of stupid claiming that it was not a resounding
    >> rejection.

    >
    > Except this isn't Obama versus McCain.
    >
    > This is NADER versus McCain.
    >

    Are you saying that Linux is the analog of a historic loser? I would have
    to agree, but that seems like a sad admission on your part. Have you lost
    the faith?

    > In reality, Linux is more like one of those 3rd parties that
    > everyone tells you not to vote for. They tell you not to bother
    > because you're just "wasting your fote".
    >

    Apparently you have.



  20. Re: Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales


    "High Plains Thumper" wrote in message
    news:49156bfa$0$17069$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org...
    >
    > Rather sad that this troll must resort to continued personal attacks,
    > "lack of understand on your part" rather than participate in the
    > discussion, and it admits attacking Mr. Ballard, calling his statements a
    > disrespect, clumsy. This is attacking the poster rather than addressing
    > the poster's statements.
    >

    Let's see here: Calling the statement clumsy is not an attack on the
    statement. Hmmm. You seem to have trouble with ideas. And yes, my
    original post was directed at Ballard, but it was to illustrate his
    continued disrespect for us all due to his continued misstatements of facts
    contained in his own cites. An adhominem attack would be using that to
    discredit the idea itself.

    > Its reply to my message and insinuation of naiveness is a continued
    > example of an ad hominem attack, a rather sad failed attempt at trolling.
    >

    I don't think I insinuated naivete on your part, rather ignorance and/or
    stupidity was the intended insinuation.


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