Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer. - Linux

This is a discussion on Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer. - Linux ; I had this old AMD Duron 900 MHz with 256 MB of RAM sitting in the garage, so I decided too see if I could revive it for my kids to use in their bedroom. As the machine has pretty ...

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Thread: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

  1. Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

    I had this old AMD Duron 900 MHz with 256 MB of RAM sitting in the
    garage, so I decided too see if I could revive it for my kids to use
    in their bedroom. As the machine has pretty low specs I needed a
    lightweight environment, yet easy enough for kids to use.

    I ended up installing a base system from a Debian Etch netinstall
    image, and then manually added xorg, alsa, mpd, sonata, gqview,
    mplayer and some other stuff, and decided to go for fluxbox as the
    window manager and midnight commander as the file browser.

    After some configuration by yours truely I ended up with a system that
    was pretty easy to use for myself, but how would my kids deal with it?

    Well, they can use the system without a problem. I was particularly
    amazed by the fact they had absolutely no problem using midnight
    commander as a file browser. I spent about 5 minutes explaining the
    basics, and off they went.

    I configured mc to open the files they use most commonly - such as
    pictures, audio and video - with very simple and straightforward
    applications. Enter on a video/audio file launches mplayer without
    gui, as they already knew the basic mplayer keybindings ( for
    toggling fullscreen mode, to quit, arrow keys to scan...).
    Enter on an image file fires up gqview, which they also already knew
    the basic keystrokes. Pdf files come up with xpdf. Text files open
    with gedit. Etc.

    I also configured mpd to team up nicely with the sonata GUI. They love
    it. Such a simple GUI, yet it does support stuff such as fetching
    album art and lyrics. Kids love that.

    Then there's iceweasel, of course with the Flash plugin so they can
    play their favorite online games. Email is done with gmail, another
    thing they already knew. They also use google docs to "type stuff", as
    they call it, so iceweasel takes a central part in their computing
    environment. Gmail and docs are very smooth on this lightweight setup
    by the way.

    Plus of course their favorite FOSS games such as TuxPaint, Frozen
    Bubble, LBreakout, LTris...

    I made all this stuff accessible through a customized fluxmenu that
    looks like this:

    Computer # launches mc in the home dir
    Google # launches iw @ google
    Gmail # launches iw @ gmail
    Docs # launches iw @ google docs
    Music # launches sonata
    Games # submenu with all the games...

    Not a single complaint yet... :-)

    My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p

    --
    It's the dwarves that go swimmin' with big hairy women.
    ~ Gimli, son of Gloin

  2. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

    After takin' a swig o' grog, TomB belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > I had this old AMD Duron 900 MHz with 256 MB of RAM sitting in the
    > garage, so I decided too see if I could revive it for my kids to use
    > in their bedroom. As the machine has pretty low specs I needed a
    > lightweight environment, yet easy enough for kids to use.
    >
    > I ended up installing a base system from a Debian Etch netinstall
    > image, and then manually added xorg, alsa, mpd, sonata, gqview,
    > mplayer and some other stuff, and decided to go for fluxbox as the
    > window manager and midnight commander as the file browser.
    >
    > After some configuration by yours truely I ended up with a system that
    > was pretty easy to use for myself, but how would my kids deal with it?
    >
    > Well, they can use the system without a problem. I was particularly
    > amazed by the fact they had absolutely no problem using midnight
    > commander as a file browser. I spent about 5 minutes explaining the
    > basics, and off they went.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p


    That's the ticket right there.

    With my daughter's problems with XP blowing up periodically due to malware,
    my wife is making small Linux noises. She wants me to show my daughter
    Linux again.

    "But not the desktop the way you have it set up." (That would be fluxbox
    with autoraise, which drives her batty).

    So, sometime before she comes home, I'll work up a few live CDs.

    I've also suggested the Mac, but they say it is too expensive. However, if
    the Macbook is very durable, that would be a key point in my mind, since my
    daughter is rough on laptops.

    --
    We don't know one millionth of one percent about anything.

  3. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.


    "TomB" wrote in message
    newsY0Qk.169431$0t2.145739@newsfe29.ams2...
    >I had this old AMD Duron 900 MHz with 256 MB of RAM sitting in the
    > garage, so I decided too see if I could revive it for my kids to use
    > in their bedroom. As the machine has pretty low specs I needed a
    > lightweight environment, yet easy enough for kids to use.
    >
    > I ended up installing a base system from a Debian Etch netinstall
    > image, and then manually added xorg, alsa, mpd, sonata, gqview,
    > mplayer and some other stuff, and decided to go for fluxbox as the
    > window manager and midnight commander as the file browser.
    >
    > After some configuration by yours truely I ended up with a system that
    > was pretty easy to use for myself, but how would my kids deal with it?
    >

    (snip)
    >
    > Not a single complaint yet... :-)
    >
    > My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p
    >


    An interesting experiment but certainly not a "ultimate test" of anything.
    But the same kids behind a Mac or a PC and see if they can figure it out. My
    guess is that they would like the Mac even better.



  4. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > "TomB" wrote in message
    > newsY0Qk.169431$0t2.145739@newsfe29.ams2...
    >>I had this old AMD Duron 900 MHz with 256 MB of RAM sitting in the
    >> garage, so I decided too see if I could revive it for my kids to use
    >> in their bedroom. As the machine has pretty low specs I needed a
    >> lightweight environment, yet easy enough for kids to use.
    >>
    >> I ended up installing a base system from a Debian Etch netinstall
    >> image, and then manually added xorg, alsa, mpd, sonata, gqview,
    >> mplayer and some other stuff, and decided to go for fluxbox as the
    >> window manager and midnight commander as the file browser.
    >>
    >> After some configuration by yours truely I ended up with a system that
    >> was pretty easy to use for myself, but how would my kids deal with it?
    >>

    > (snip)
    >>
    >> Not a single complaint yet... :-)
    >>
    >> My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p

    >
    > An interesting experiment but certainly not a "ultimate test" of anything.
    > But the same kids behind a Mac or a PC and see if they can figure it out. My
    > guess is that they would like the Mac even better.


    So what? They handle the system they already have just fine.

    --
    Alimony is a system by which, when two people make a mistake, one of them
    continues to pay for it.
    -- Peggy Joyce

  5. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind acomputer.

    On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:29:49 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:

    > "TomB" wrote in message




    >> Not a single complaint yet... :-)
    >>
    >> My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p
    >>
    >>

    > An interesting experiment but certainly not a "ultimate test" of
    > anything. But the same kids behind a Mac or a PC and see if they can
    > figure it out. My guess is that they would like the Mac even better.


    Your kids may be morons Flatfish, but I know 9 year olds that can install
    and run Linux all by themselves, and don't have to sell crack at school
    to afford it like they would a MAC.

    Mac advocacy is next door on the left.







    --
    Linux full time, on the desktop, since August 1997

  6. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind acomputer.

    On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:36:38 -0600, Terry Porter wrote:

    > On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:29:49 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
    >
    >> "TomB" wrote in message

    >
    >
    >
    >>> Not a single complaint yet... :-)
    >>>
    >>> My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p
    >>>
    >>>

    >> An interesting experiment but certainly not a "ultimate test" of
    >> anything. But the same kids behind a Mac or a PC and see if they can
    >> figure it out. My guess is that they would like the Mac even better.

    >
    > Your kids may be morons Flatfish, but I know 9 year olds that can
    > install and run Linux all by themselves, and don't have to sell crack at
    > school to afford it like they would a MAC.
    >
    > Mac advocacy is next door on the left.


    I'm put in mind of Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie...

    After Dad's call to tech support nearly causes the support guy to eat his
    phone, he asks if there are any kids in the house. Yes, there's a 9-year-
    old daughter. She comes on. Tech walks her through fixing the problem
    in about 30 seconds, then...

    "Is it all working now? Good. And tell your Daddy he should get a Mac.
    Hmm? What? Macs? They're computers for moro... er... mommies and
    daddies."

    Less true these days, I gather, but any company so fanatically focussed
    on "pretty" makes me wonder just a tad.


  7. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

    Verily I say unto thee, that TomB spake thusly:

    > Not a single complaint yet... :-)
    >
    > My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p


    My Sister's household used to be "Windows only", mainly due to my Sister
    who was rather less than open minded about anything not "mainstream" (it
    was the old catch 22 of "if most people use it then it must be the best"
    .... so more people start using it, so the fallacy expands further, right
    along with its ubiquity). IOW, my sister was exactly the kind of narrow-
    minded consumer the Vole loves to exploit.

    Then came Vista, and naturally my sister "upgraded", because "everybody"
    does it.

    Long story short - I'd like to sincerely thank Microsoft for converting
    my sister's entire household to Linux.

    The slightly longer story is ... all three machines were "running slow",
    her laptop was overheating, the eldest kid's machine was having network
    issues (shares and the Internet disappearing), the youngest kid had some
    problems playing games (too slow, crashes, compatibility issues, etc.).
    None of the machines had a Vista "score" above 1, despite them all being
    2GHz or faster. Basically it was a never-ending nightmare, and my sister
    was not exactly in a good financial position to spend thousands on a new
    set of computers, so she asked for my help.

    I decided to take the less confrontational route of "dual boot", rather
    than Linux only, so I restored all three machines to the factory default
    (XP) using the recovery discs. I wasn't going to waste any time with
    updates or reinstalling anything, since I knew from experience that all
    three of the "users" would screw up their Windows installations again
    eventually anyway, so why bother? I just left them to it.

    Then I repartitioned using a Fedora LiveCD, and installed Fedora 9. All
    three machines completed the install quickly and without problems, and
    even WiFi worked straight away. I maintain a local mirror of the updates
    on my server (which I'd brought with me - it's only a MiniITX system),
    so I just edited the yum repo configs to point to that, and all three
    machines were updated in a matter of a few minutes, despite there being
    some quite hefty updates like OpenOffice.

    Beyond that, I did nothing. I didn't even try to encourage them to use
    the Linux partition at all, and in fact I set the default boot (in GRUB)
    to "Windows XP".

    Four weeks later ... they're all using Linux ... by /default/.

    Neither of the two kids even boot into XP any more, and my sister only
    does so to listen to her DRM-ed music on iTuna (meanwhile I've convinced
    her to stop buying DRM-ed music, and just buy and rip CDs instead).

    As for games, the youngest kid is using WINE with about a 50% success
    rate, which is about 40% better than when he tried to play those same
    games under Vista, so he's happy. I'm sure if I had a look I could
    improve that even further (no, I had nothing to do with it initially -
    he found WINE and figured it all out by himself). You should have seen
    the look on his face when I showed him all the *Free* Linux games in the
    repo, including the Quake series (engines only, with demo data files).
    Something tells me he won't need to use WINE very often.

    For the most part, none of them have noticed much difference in terms of
    what they actually need to do on their PCs, except for the lack of
    issues like crashes and slowness of course. I don't think they fully
    understand the "Free as in Freedom" angle yet, since it's inherent
    Windows mentality to think of "free" being equivocal to "piracy", but
    they are star-stuck with the Compiz effects; the vast array of available
    packages; and the overall stability. They browse the Web; read Email;
    use Pidgin for messaging; and play music and videos ... just like they
    did under Windows ... only with far; far fewer problems.

    And as for those "few problems" ... so far I've encountered only one:
    the eldest kid's iPod Nano (3rd generation) was not automatically
    detected by Amarok (technically libgpod), I had to configure it
    manually. Apparently there's already an upstream update that fixes the
    issue, but it hasn't hit the repo yet.

    That's it.

    The thing I find most encouraging, is how excited they all are with
    Linux - they're like kids in a candy shop (well two of them /are/ kids,
    but you get my point). They are utterly fascinated by Linux, and eager
    to find out more. I was even embarrassed by the youngest kid who showed
    /me/ how to do something under Linux that /I/ couldn't figure out ...
    and he'd only been using it for /one day/ at that point (something to do
    with editing your messenger "alias" in Pidgin). I've appointed him the
    house "admin" as a "reward". Hehe. I may well laugh ... he might
    actually turn out to be better at it than me. Seriously.

    Ah, kids.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
    | the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
    | weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
    03:52:06 up 5 days, 11:34, 4 users, load average: 0.03, 0.05, 0.00

  8. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

    Homer wrote:
    > Verily I say unto thee, that TomB spake thusly:
    >
    >> Not a single complaint yet... :-)
    >>
    >> My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p

    >
    > My Sister's household used to be "Windows only", mainly due to my
    > Sister who was rather less than open minded about anything not
    > "mainstream" (it was the old catch 22 of "if most people use it then
    > it must be the best" ... so more people start using it, so the
    > fallacy expands further, right along with its ubiquity). IOW, my
    > sister was exactly the kind of narrow- minded consumer the Vole loves
    > to exploit.
    >
    > Then came Vista, and naturally my sister "upgraded", because
    > "everybody" does it.
    >
    > Long story short - I'd like to sincerely thank Microsoft for
    > converting my sister's entire household to Linux.
    >
    > The slightly longer story is ... all three machines were "running
    > slow", her laptop was overheating, the eldest kid's machine was
    > having network issues (shares and the Internet disappearing), the
    > youngest kid had some problems playing games (too slow, crashes,
    > compatibility issues, etc.). None of the machines had a Vista "score"
    > above 1, despite them all being 2GHz or faster. Basically it was a
    > never-ending nightmare, and my sister was not exactly in a good
    > financial position to spend thousands on a new set of computers, so
    > she asked for my help.
    >
    > I decided to take the less confrontational route of "dual boot",
    > rather than Linux only, so I restored all three machines to the
    > factory default (XP) using the recovery discs. I wasn't going to
    > waste any time with updates or reinstalling anything, since I knew
    > from experience that all three of the "users" would screw up their
    > Windows installations again eventually anyway, so why bother? I just
    > left them to it.
    >
    > Then I repartitioned using a Fedora LiveCD, and installed Fedora 9.
    > All three machines completed the install quickly and without
    > problems, and even WiFi worked straight away. I maintain a local
    > mirror of the updates on my server (which I'd brought with me - it's
    > only a MiniITX system), so I just edited the yum repo configs to
    > point to that, and all three machines were updated in a matter of a
    > few minutes, despite there being some quite hefty updates like
    > OpenOffice.
    >
    > Beyond that, I did nothing. I didn't even try to encourage them to use
    > the Linux partition at all, and in fact I set the default boot (in
    > GRUB) to "Windows XP".
    >
    > Four weeks later ... they're all using Linux ... by /default/.
    >
    > Neither of the two kids even boot into XP any more, and my sister only
    > does so to listen to her DRM-ed music on iTuna (meanwhile I've
    > convinced her to stop buying DRM-ed music, and just buy and rip CDs
    > instead).
    >
    > As for games, the youngest kid is using WINE with about a 50% success
    > rate, which is about 40% better than when he tried to play those same
    > games under Vista, so he's happy. I'm sure if I had a look I could
    > improve that even further (no, I had nothing to do with it initially -
    > he found WINE and figured it all out by himself). You should have seen
    > the look on his face when I showed him all the *Free* Linux games in
    > the repo, including the Quake series (engines only, with demo data
    > files). Something tells me he won't need to use WINE very often.
    >
    > For the most part, none of them have noticed much difference in terms
    > of what they actually need to do on their PCs, except for the lack of
    > issues like crashes and slowness of course. I don't think they fully
    > understand the "Free as in Freedom" angle yet, since it's inherent
    > Windows mentality to think of "free" being equivocal to "piracy", but
    > they are star-stuck with the Compiz effects; the vast array of
    > available packages; and the overall stability. They browse the Web;
    > read Email; use Pidgin for messaging; and play music and videos ...
    > just like they did under Windows ... only with far; far fewer
    > problems.
    >
    > And as for those "few problems" ... so far I've encountered only one:
    > the eldest kid's iPod Nano (3rd generation) was not automatically
    > detected by Amarok (technically libgpod), I had to configure it
    > manually. Apparently there's already an upstream update that fixes the
    > issue, but it hasn't hit the repo yet.
    >
    > That's it.
    >
    > The thing I find most encouraging, is how excited they all are with
    > Linux - they're like kids in a candy shop (well two of them /are/
    > kids, but you get my point). They are utterly fascinated by Linux,
    > and eager to find out more. I was even embarrassed by the youngest
    > kid who showed /me/ how to do something under Linux that /I/ couldn't
    > figure out ... and he'd only been using it for /one day/ at that
    > point (something to do with editing your messenger "alias" in
    > Pidgin). I've appointed him the house "admin" as a "reward". Hehe. I
    > may well laugh ... he might actually turn out to be better at it than
    > me. Seriously.
    >
    > Ah, kids.



    How heartwarming. And how false, of course.

    It's so pathetic how "advocates*" tales of Linux are just one stellar
    success after another, no crashes ever, nothing but net...but you log onto
    the Linux forums and it's endless wave after endless wave of bull**** Linux
    crapware problems. Didja ever notice that, [H]ypocrite? huh? I did.

    My c2004 P4, 2.0ghz Vista system with a $50 graphics card had a 3.x rating,
    but somehow her faster machines got lower scores? uh huh. You'll be sure
    to provide screenshots of the Vista Experience Rating, won't you?

    Exactly which Windows games and versions ran flawlessly under WINE but not
    Vista?

    "he found WINE and figured it all out by himself"... ha! Sure he did,
    Homer.

    Hey, ask him to take a screenshot of his Gnome-based system with the menus
    expanded. Let us know if he curses you out for wasting his time.

    And did you tell them you're a raging lunatic Linux luser who wishes various
    Windows people would burn in Hell?

    Here's the reality of Linux, you slimy, lying [H]ypocrite:


    RELIABLE AND STABLE AND "JUST WORKS!"
    ==================================================
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...eeeeyyyyy.jpeg
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...e_retrieve.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/..._exception.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...ptic_error.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...hmbox_slop.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...rimination.jpg
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...op_example.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...first_boot.PNG
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/Slax_slop.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/Slax_slop2.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...op_failure.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/Syncraptic.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfslinux/sloppy_sort.png




    OPEN SOURCE "INN-O-VAY-SHUN":
    ==================================================
    "Vista is introducing alot of new features and I'm pretty sure we can (or
    will very shortly) replicate most of those features in Ubuntu."
    http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-161670.html



    TESTIMONIALS:
    ===========================================
    "I think it's just a crapshoot."
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...freeze&page=63

    "...it just freezes when i'm doing nothing."
    #36 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=4

    "it's never truly stable."
    #110 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=11

    NOT GOOD!"
    #94 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=10

    "It's really irritating."
    #11 at
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...=412125&page=2

    "this is absolute insanity!!!"
    #112 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=12

    "WHAT A NIGHTMARE !!!
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...freeze&page=60





    FREEZING COMPLAINTS:
    ========================================

    RedHat: "I have a PC with RedHat Linux installed...at regular times, weekly
    exactly the same time!, the PC 'freezes'? ... There's nothing I can do at
    that moment besides a hardware reboot."
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...reezes-601972/

    Debian Etch: "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same
    freezing problem."
    #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    Suse 10.3: "Last few days I have been confronted with a weird behavior of my
    SUSE 10.3 system. Several time a day all of the sudden it freezes. Then I
    have to reboot ... "
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...hlight=freezes

    Slackware 12.0: "Bit worrisome this. I have had two system freezes today on
    my new Slackware 12 installation."
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...hlight=freezes

    Mint 4.0: "So I switched [from Gentoo] to Linux Mint 4.0 and in the last 3
    days I have had 2 system freezes."
    http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic...freezes#p67069

    PCLinuxOS: "About 4 times each day, the whole system freezes up."
    1st post at http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=35878.0

    DreamLinux: "...I clicked on PLAY for one of the sounds and the entire
    system froze."
    http://dreamlinuxforums.org/index.php/topic,1217.0.html

    Mandriva 2008: "...did a clean install of Mandriva 2008 and it has been
    freezing a lot, regardless of what i am doing."
    http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic....3a9dc185854a5a

    Sabayon: "...took 27hrs to install.....till I try to do anything......next
    thing my task bar disappears...my program selector disappears...I do
    anything....it freezes up solid.."
    http://www.sabayonlinux.org/forum/vi...freezes#p67138

    ArchLinux: "I have Asus A6M Q0050 and last three weeks I experience random
    freezes."
    http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=44765

    CentOS 5.1: "It just simply freezes."
    http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/...forumpost37948

    Ubuntu 8.04: "Hardy is BY FAR the worst Ubuntu version yet. LOCKUP
    WARNING!!! Some users, myself included, are experiencing random total
    lockups."
    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ux/+bug/204996

    Fedora 8: "I've been having frequent lock-ups with Fedora 8 for some days."
    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forum/...hlight=freezes

    Puppy: "The whole system freezes after a short time."
    http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/vie...323145&t=27550




    MORE FREEZING COMPLAINTS:
    ========================================
    86 pages of complaints about Feisty 7.04 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125

    65 pages of complaints about Gutsy 7.10 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=freeze

    15 pages of complaints about Hardy 8.04 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=freeze



    CRAPWARE QUITS WORKING FOR NO REASON
    ==========================================
    ml2mst: "I've been working with SUSE since 1998, but for some mysterious
    reason, it simply stopped working a couple of months ago."
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....78b83a1137b1f5

    kernel developers just quit working: "Then I quit forever."
    http://apcmag.com/interview_with_con...he_desktop.htm

    Samba just quits working: "Then some of this suddenly stopped working."
    http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-49548.html

    Samba just quits working: "My computer just stopped sharing its folder
    (which had worked perfectly) one day"
    http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-49548.html

    keyboard just quits working: "While entering data in Krecipes package
    keyboard quit inputing characters"
    http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6617_102...sageID=2615582

    keyboard just quits working: "..the keyboard would work for awhile and then
    just quit."
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/..._this_notebook

    yum just quits working: "this has worked for about four months and today it
    has stopped working."
    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archiv.../t-119325.html

    network just quits working: "I noticed some times my network will just quit
    working and won't reconnect even if i plug it into a cable nothing works and
    I have to reboot."
    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ux/+bug/152456

    wireless just quits working: "Wireless connection just quits working.
    Windows will connect just fine."
    http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/lo...hp/t33604.html

    DNS just quits working: "...DNS has just quit working."
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=243482

    printing just quits working: "...printnig would just quit working for all
    apps..."
    http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/deb...underbird.html

    audio player just quits working: "... the Audio Player program just quit
    working one day and hasn't worked since."
    http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=14453

    PCMCIA card just quits working: "...one day, the connection simply quit
    working."..."The card works fine in win98se, and I have no problems
    connecting to our router, which is a USR8054."
    http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26032

    graphics just quit working: "When the WU restarted the graphics window did
    not come back."
    http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_thread.php?id=468

    sound just quits working: "I was watching a movie in movie player and the
    right sound channel cut out. Then about 10 seconds later, the left cut out.
    I rebooted and still no sound. My sound is turned up all the way too. I'm
    not sure what I will do. Reinstall something I guess."
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=342041

    Linuxconf just quits working: "Does Linuxconf actually work? When I use it,
    it tends to mess up my config files (at least for Apache) and always tell me
    some process is taking too long. Sometimes it seems to just quit on me."
    http://rasterweb.net/raster/computers/linux.html

    Mandriva 2006 just quits working: "My Mandriva2006 just quit working !"
    http://dunedin.lug.net.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=42838





    LEAN AND MEAN
    ================================================
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...us_install.png
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/Debian_abakus.png
    11 new packages (15 total) and 65mb of disk space for a piece of junk.


    Ain't Linux grand?!




  9. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

    Homer writes:

    > Verily I say unto thee, that TomB spake thusly:
    >
    >> Not a single complaint yet... :-)
    >>
    >> My kids are 6, 8 and 10. Unspoiled by Windows :-p

    >
    > My Sister's household used to be "Windows only", mainly due to my Sister
    > who was rather less than open minded about anything not "mainstream" (it
    > was the old catch 22 of "if most people use it then it must be the best"
    > ... so more people start using it, so the fallacy expands further, right
    > along with its ubiquity). IOW, my sister was exactly the kind of narrow-
    > minded consumer the Vole loves to exploit.
    >
    > Then came Vista, and naturally my sister "upgraded", because "everybody"
    > does it.
    >
    > Long story short - I'd like to sincerely thank Microsoft for converting
    > my sister's entire household to Linux.
    >
    > The slightly longer story is ... all three machines were "running slow",
    > her laptop was overheating, the eldest kid's machine was having network
    > issues (shares and the Internet disappearing), the youngest kid had some
    > problems playing games (too slow, crashes, compatibility issues, etc.).
    > None of the machines had a Vista "score" above 1, despite them all being
    > 2GHz or faster. Basically it was a never-ending nightmare, and my sister
    > was not exactly in a good financial position to spend thousands on a new
    > set of computers, so she asked for my help.
    >
    > I decided to take the less confrontational route of "dual boot", rather
    > than Linux only, so I restored all three machines to the factory default
    > (XP) using the recovery discs. I wasn't going to waste any time with
    > updates or reinstalling anything, since I knew from experience that all
    > three of the "users" would screw up their Windows installations again
    > eventually anyway, so why bother? I just left them to it.
    >
    > Then I repartitioned using a Fedora LiveCD, and installed Fedora 9. All
    > three machines completed the install quickly and without problems, and
    > even WiFi worked straight away. I maintain a local mirror of the updates
    > on my server (which I'd brought with me - it's only a MiniITX system),
    > so I just edited the yum repo configs to point to that, and all three
    > machines were updated in a matter of a few minutes, despite there being
    > some quite hefty updates like OpenOffice.
    >
    > Beyond that, I did nothing. I didn't even try to encourage them to use
    > the Linux partition at all, and in fact I set the default boot (in GRUB)
    > to "Windows XP".
    >
    > Four weeks later ... they're all using Linux ... by /default/.
    >
    > Neither of the two kids even boot into XP any more, and my sister only
    > does so to listen to her DRM-ed music on iTuna (meanwhile I've convinced
    > her to stop buying DRM-ed music, and just buy and rip CDs instead).
    >
    > As for games, the youngest kid is using WINE with about a 50% success
    > rate, which is about 40% better than when he tried to play those same
    > games under Vista, so he's happy. I'm sure if I had a look I could
    > improve that even further (no, I had nothing to do with it initially -
    > he found WINE and figured it all out by himself). You should have seen
    > the look on his face when I showed him all the *Free* Linux games in the
    > repo, including the Quake series (engines only, with demo data files).
    > Something tells me he won't need to use WINE very often.
    >
    > For the most part, none of them have noticed much difference in terms of
    > what they actually need to do on their PCs, except for the lack of
    > issues like crashes and slowness of course. I don't think they fully
    > understand the "Free as in Freedom" angle yet, since it's inherent
    > Windows mentality to think of "free" being equivocal to "piracy", but
    > they are star-stuck with the Compiz effects; the vast array of available
    > packages; and the overall stability. They browse the Web; read Email;
    > use Pidgin for messaging; and play music and videos ... just like they
    > did under Windows ... only with far; far fewer problems.
    >
    > And as for those "few problems" ... so far I've encountered only one:
    > the eldest kid's iPod Nano (3rd generation) was not automatically
    > detected by Amarok (technically libgpod), I had to configure it
    > manually. Apparently there's already an upstream update that fixes the
    > issue, but it hasn't hit the repo yet.
    >
    > That's it.
    >
    > The thing I find most encouraging, is how excited they all are with
    > Linux - they're like kids in a candy shop (well two of them /are/ kids,
    > but you get my point). They are utterly fascinated by Linux, and eager
    > to find out more. I was even embarrassed by the youngest kid who showed
    > /me/ how to do something under Linux that /I/ couldn't figure out ...
    > and he'd only been using it for /one day/ at that point (something to do
    > with editing your messenger "alias" in Pidgin). I've appointed him the
    > house "admin" as a "reward". Hehe. I may well laugh ... he might
    > actually turn out to be better at it than me. Seriously.
    >
    > Ah, kids.


    I dont believe a word of that post.

    Hell, even Google has to provide their own Wine installer for their
    stuff.

    Wine is a nightmare for anything more than Solitaire. Things like
    "PlayOnLinux" are ok if you dont mind being limited to games about 10
    years old and the occasional newer title. CEDEGA appears to have
    forgotten Linux and now concentrates on the MAC.

    Not ONE COLA "advocate" subscribed to CEDEGA. Not one has bought a game
    from Loki. Few even accepted that adults should play games. This is what
    makes COLA such a loony bin.

  10. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

    On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:38:21 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    > I dont believe a word of that post.


    Who cares what you believe, Queeg?
    --
    Regards,
    [tv]
    Owner/proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC

    ....I'll have one brain on drugs with bacon, toast and juice.

  11. Re: Ultimate user-friendlyness test: put your kids behind a computer.

    Tattoo Vampire wrote:

    >Quack snotted:
    >>
    >> I dont believe a word of that post.

    >
    >Who cares what you believe, Queeg?


    You mean what he claims to believe. He may well be lying, as he has
    no shame in doing.


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