Verily I say unto thee, that chrisv spake thusly:
> Homer wrote:

>> I do always try to have fish on a Friday but it's only now and then
>> that I'll eat battered Fish 'n Chips. I prefer stuff like Cod
>> Mornay; halibut steaks; and pretty much any fish in a savoury white
>> sauce.
>
> Mmmm... I don't suppose that you have a good white sauce recipe that
> you'd like to share? 8)

Nearly all white sauces (certainly of the savoury variety) start with a
basic béchamel (be-sha-mel), which is just a roux (roo) combined with
milk and seasoning.

A roux is made by melting butter in a saucepan, adding flour until you
get a thick paste, and then stirring rapidly over the heat until it
changes to the required colour (this varies depending on the final sauce).

For something like a Mornay, you'll want a light coloured roux, to which
you'll add warm milk (warming it first helps the roux dissolve) seasoned
with salt and pepper to taste. That's your béchamel. To make this sauce
into a Mornay, you basically just add grated cheese (Gruyère, Parmesan,
or whatever you like). I personally like Stilton and Wensleydale.

If you don't like cheesy sauces, try using fish stock instead of cheese
and half the milk, or just cheat by using a fish stock cube. Even cubes
produce quite palatable sauces, if you're in a rush, and don't have the
time to make your own stock.

If you want a really nice flavour, then you need to think about making
your own stock from scratch ... it's not that hard. Any roast you cook
always produces fats and juices that you can drain off, and combined
with any leftovers like bones, you boil it for a few hours in a stock
pot (any huge pot, to allow for evaporation), with a touch of some well
chosen herbs (basil, bay leaf, tarragon and parsley), and whatever
vegetables you have left over (leeks, onions, carrots, etc.). Fish;
chicken and game stocks make a good base for savoury white sauces, but
really you should experiment to discover what you like best.

So in summary:

Melted butter + flour = roux.
Roux + milk + seasoning = béchamel.
Béchamel + stock = savoury white sauce.

The stock you use depends on your tastes, but you'll probably want fish;
parsley or cheese for a fish dish.

Tune in for tomorrow's recipe: Peach and Champagne Russe in a Wild
Raspberry and Muscat Compote.

--
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
| the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
| weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
22:36:11 up 6:19, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.07, 0.07

After takin' a swig o' grog, Homer belched out
this bit o' wisdom:

> So in summary:
>
> Melted butter + flour = roux.
> Roux + milk + seasoning = béchamel.
> Béchamel + stock = savoury white sauce.
>
> The stock you use depends on your tastes, but you'll probably want fish;
> parsley or cheese for a fish dish.
>
> Tune in for tomorrow's recipe: Peach and Champagne Russe in a Wild
> Raspberry and Muscat Compote.

Totally off-topic.

Droooool.

I feel like I'm reading one of Marcel Gagne's columns in Linux Journal.

Un votre sant! Bon appetit!

--
No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Homer belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> So in summary:
>>
>> Melted butter + flour = roux.
>> Roux + milk + seasoning = béchamel.
>> Béchamel + stock = savoury white sauce.
>>
>> The stock you use depends on your tastes, but you'll probably want fish;
>> parsley or cheese for a fish dish.
>>
>> Tune in for tomorrow's recipe: Peach and Champagne Russe in a Wild
>> Raspberry and Muscat Compote.
>
> Totally off-topic.

And good

> Droooool.
>
> I feel like I'm reading one of Marcel Gagne's columns in Linux Journal.
>
> Un votre sant!

Should be: A votre santé

> Bon appetit!
>

--
The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.

After takin' a swig o' grog, Peter Köhlmann belched out
this bit o' wisdom:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> I feel like I'm reading one of Marcel Gagne's columns in Linux Journal.
>>
>> Un votre sant!
>
> Should be: A votre santé

Mare sea bo coo!

--
Change is the essential process of all existence.
-- Spock, "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", stardate 5730.2

Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Homer belched out this bit o' wisdom:

>> So in summary:
>>
>> Melted butter + flour = roux. Roux + milk + seasoning = béchamel.
>> Béchamel + stock = savoury white sauce.
>>
>> The stock you use depends on your tastes, but you'll probably want
>> fish; parsley or cheese for a fish dish.
>>
>> Tune in for tomorrow's recipe: Peach and Champagne Russe in a Wild
>> Raspberry and Muscat Compote.
>
> Totally off-topic.

Hey, it's Open Sauce!

[groan]

Talking of sauces, you haven't lived until you've tried my Clootie
Dumpling and Whisky Sauce, made with an 18 year-old Glenmorangie (ach,
such sacrilege).

Yes, I'm a total foodie.

> Droooool.
>
> I feel like I'm reading one of Marcel Gagne's columns in Linux
> Journal.
>
> Un votre sant! Bon appetit!

Hmm, I think I may be on to something. Tempt potential switchers with
haute cuisine. "Free as in Lunch!"

Slaandjivaa.

--
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
| the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
| weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
00:39:00 up 8:21, 3 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.14

On 2008-11-05, chrisv wrote:
> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>
> I fry my own fish at home. When I do it, it's a chunk of MEAT, with
> only a thin crispy coating, and not too much oil.

Hmmm... I don't usually fry fish. I coat mullet cutlets with a spice and yoghurt
mixture, leave for a few hours then shove it under a grill.... Tandoori
Fish. The yogurt/spice mixture seals in the moisture of the
fish...superb!

Or, for little Garfish (small fish around 6cm long - thin with a horn on
their bottom lip) I dust them in seasoned flour and shallow fry them on
a frypan.

Squid is great just sliced, scored, marinated in lemongrass, fish sauce,
ginger, garlic, sesame oil, chillies and honey...then wok-fried with
chinese greens, shallots and ramen.

--
Regards,

Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

On 2008-11-05, chrisv wrote:
> Homer wrote:
>
>>I do always try to have fish on a Friday but it's only now and then that
>>I'll eat battered Fish 'n Chips. I prefer stuff like Cod Mornay; halibut
>>steaks; and pretty much any fish in a savoury white sauce.
>
> Mmmm... I don't suppose that you have a good white sauce recipe that
> you'd like to share? 8)
>

Hmmm... melt butter, add flour to form a roux, fry until fragrant, add
very hot milk and then stir under a low-medium heat until thickened.
Flavour with Romano cheese, grated lemon rind and a teaspoon of hot
english mustard.

--
Regards,

Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

After takin' a swig o' grog, Gregory Shearman belched out
this bit o' wisdom:

> On 2008-11-05, chrisv wrote:
>> Homer wrote:
>>
>>>I do always try to have fish on a Friday but it's only now and then that
>>>I'll eat battered Fish 'n Chips. I prefer stuff like Cod Mornay; halibut
>>>steaks; and pretty much any fish in a savoury white sauce.
>>
>> Mmmm... I don't suppose that you have a good white sauce recipe that
>> you'd like to share? 8)
>
> Hmmm... melt butter, add flour to form a roux, fry until fragrant, add
> very hot milk and then stir under a low-medium heat until thickened.
> Flavour with Romano cheese, grated lemon rind and a teaspoon of hot
> english mustard.

Will you guys stop with the food descriptions!!!!!

Or at least send me a CARE package!

--
You can make it illegal, but you can't make it unpopular.

Gregory Shearman wrote:

>Squid

*gag*

Homer wrote:

>(snipped and archived)
>
>So in summary:
>
>Melted butter + flour = roux.
>Roux + milk + seasoning = béchamel.
>Béchamel + stock = savoury white sauce.

I'm going to have to give that a go. Thanks.

Can leftover sauce be frozen and later warmed, with good results? (I
suppose that I've just blasphemed. 8)

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Gregory Shearman belched:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> Mmmm... I don't suppose that you have a good white sauce recipe that
>>> you'd like to share? 8)
>>
>> Hmmm... melt butter, add flour to form a roux, fry until fragrant, add
>> very hot milk and then stir under a low-medium heat until thickened.
>> Flavour with Romano cheese, grated lemon rind and a teaspoon of hot
>> english mustard.
>
>Will you guys stop with the food descriptions!!!!!
>
>Or at least send me a CARE package!

Yeah, I can't wait for the weekend when I'll have time to try making
some "white sauce".

I suppose I'll need to come-up with a way to steam the fish something,
instead of frying... Yes, I'm a novice.

chrisv wrote:

> Homer wrote:
>
>>(snipped and archived)
>>
>>So in summary:
>>
>>Melted butter + flour = roux.
>>Roux + milk + seasoning = béchamel.
>>Béchamel + stock = savoury white sauce.
>
> I'm going to have to give that a go. Thanks.
>
> Can leftover sauce be frozen and later warmed, with good results?

Not with good results. It is acceptable, but nothing more. Take the time to
make it fresh

> (I suppose that I've just blasphemed. 8)

On the verge of it
--
Windows isn't unstable. It's spontaneous.

chrisv wrote:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Gregory Shearman belched:
>>
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mmmm... I don't suppose that you have a good white sauce recipe that
>>>> you'd like to share? 8)
>>>
>>> Hmmm... melt butter, add flour to form a roux, fry until fragrant, add
>>> very hot milk and then stir under a low-medium heat until thickened.
>>> Flavour with Romano cheese, grated lemon rind and a teaspoon of hot
>>> english mustard.
>>
>>Will you guys stop with the food descriptions!!!!!
>>
>>Or at least send me a CARE package!
>
> Yeah, I can't wait for the weekend when I'll have time to try making
> some "white sauce".
>
> I suppose I'll need to come-up with a way to steam the fish something,
> instead of frying... Yes, I'm a novice.

If you absolutely want to steam it (I usually prefer it fried), season it,
add herbs and wrap it in tinfoil, then put into the oven. It will be
steamed in its own juice and lose less of its taste. Works fine with trout
--
Machine-Independent, adj.:
Does not run on any existing machine.

Peter Köhlmann wrote:

>chrisv wrote:
>>
>> I suppose I'll need to come-up with a way to steam the fish something,
>> instead of frying... Yes, I'm a novice.
>
>If you absolutely want to steam it (I usually prefer it fried), season it,
>add herbs and wrap it in tinfoil, then put into the oven. It will be
>steamed in its own juice and lose less of its taste. Works fine with trout

I will try that!

On 2008-11-06, chrisv wrote:
> Homer wrote:
>
>>(snipped and archived)
>>
>>So in summary:
>>
>>Melted butter + flour = roux.
>>Roux + milk + seasoning = béchamel.
>>Béchamel + stock = savoury white sauce.

....you might want to start recording Good Eats if you get the Food Network.

>
> I'm going to have to give that a go. Thanks.
>
> Can leftover sauce be frozen and later warmed, with good results? (I
> suppose that I've just blasphemed. 8)
>


--
Apple: because TRANS.TBL is an mp3 file. It really is! |||
/ | \

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

On 2008-11-06, chrisv wrote:
> Gregory Shearman wrote:
>
>>Squid
>
> *gag*
>

Squid is no big deal. It only looks ugly. If you didn't know what
you were eating you would probably think it's just a type of fish
you've never had.

What's nasty is sea urchin.

--
Apple: because TRANS.TBL is an mp3 file. It really is! |||
/ | \

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

JEDIDIAH wrote:

> On 2008-11-06, chrisv wrote:
>> Gregory Shearman wrote:
>>
>>>Squid
>>
>> *gag*
>>
>
> Squid is no big deal. It only looks ugly. If you didn't know what
> you were eating you would probably think it's just a type of fish
> you've never had.
>
> What's nasty is sea urchin.
>

Not really. Knife it open, apply a little lemon juice, get a small spoon and
you're done.
Don't forget the gloves when opening it
--
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend: and inside a dog,
it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx

Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:

> ...you might want to start recording Good Eats if you get the Food
> Network.

I did have Sky (UK) but I got to the point where I stopped watching TV,
mainly because 99% of it was crap, and the other 1% was reruns, so I've
cancelled it now.

--
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
| the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
| weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
21:48:24 up 1 day, 5:31, 3 users, load average: 0.02, 0.02, 0.00

Verily I say unto thee, that chrisv spake thusly:
> Homer wrote:

>> (snipped and archived)
>>
>> So in summary:
>>
>> Melted butter + flour = roux.
>> Roux + milk + seasoning = béchamel.
>> Béchamel + stock = savoury white sauce.
>
> I'm going to have to give that a go. Thanks.
>
> Can leftover sauce be frozen and later warmed, with good results? (I
> suppose that I've just blasphemed. 8)

Anything that contains dairy products tends to separate if frozen, and
the result is rather nasty. However you can freeze the /stock/, indeed
it's what you should do, so you can accumulate a good selection to use
when required. A light-coloured roux takes less than a minute to make;
the béchamel another couple of minutes; and the final sauce about five
minutes so it's not that time-consuming. The longest part of preparing
a sauce is making the stock, which takes a few hours - long enough for
the meat to fall off the bones; the marrowbone to run out; and the veg
and herbs to properly infuse.

Stock is mainly just liquid (you strain it through a colander and then
discard the "spent" solids), so it's safe to deep-freeze it for years,
although I'd recommend using it within six months, so the flavour does
not become stale.

Remember to label your frozen stock with the date and contents, or you
will end up with a freezer full of "Mystery Stock" and you'll probably
just end up throwing it away.

The results will make sauces; gravies; soups; marinades and bastes for
other roasts or barbecues, once you finish them appropriately.

If you're serious about sauces, you'll need a good saucepan. Brace for
the price ... it can run into hundreds of pounds/dollars! What to look
for is a thick copper base or all copper. The thick base helps prevent
the sauce catching (sticking and burning) and copper reacts quickly to
changes in temperature, which is exactly what you need when making the
sauce. It also conducts heat more evenly than steel or aluminium; that
makes the contents cook more evenly too, although you'll be working it
pretty fast, so that's not a big issue.

Keep all your meat bones, especially the remains of the chicken, which
most people simply discard - what a waste! Put the whole carcase in to
the stockpot, including the gizzards/offal, if supplied. Chicken stock
is probably the most useful of them all, since it is used as the basis
for so many different things (and it's a "safe" flavour, i.e. everyone
likes it).

--
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
| the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
| weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
23:03:16 up 1 day, 6:46, 3 users, load average: 0.53, 0.61, 0.53