My employer completed migration of apps to Linux - Linux

This is a discussion on My employer completed migration of apps to Linux - Linux ; Gregory Shearman wrote: > On 2008-11-03, none of your buisiness wrote: >> Gregory Shearman wrote: >> >>> Oh that's right, you're dennis-"MD5"-at-home. >> >> otherwise known as "Hadron Quark" >> >>> >>> You'll paint yourself into a corner on this ...

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Thread: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

  1. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Gregory Shearman wrote:

    > On 2008-11-03, none of your buisiness wrote:
    >> Gregory Shearman wrote:
    >>
    >>> Oh that's right, you're dennis-"MD5"-at-home.

    >>
    >> otherwise known as "Hadron Quark"
    >>
    >>>
    >>> You'll paint yourself into a corner on this one, as usual.

    >>
    >> just as Hadron Quark does.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> There's a new windows virus|worm|trojan|malware attack every week.
    >>> Windows systems are bogged down by their virus checkers, yet where are
    >>> these linux threats? In your own mind, dennis@lights-on-no-one-home.
    >>>

    >> you do realize that you are just arguing with the Hadron Quack asshole
    >> who is posting under another nym, don't you?

    >
    > I'd like to see your reasoning on this. The styles are rather different.


    HAdron Quark is dumb. He is an asshole of gigantic proportions.
    But he isn't as utterly clueless as MD5-dennis

    > Any corroborating headers?
    >


    none
    --
    "The Microsoft Game" rules are very simple:
    1. If you play Microsoft's game, Microsoft wins.
    2. If you refuse to play Microsoft's game, Microsoft wins.
    3. Anytime you win, Microsoft gets to change the rules.


  2. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:56:30 -0600, snipe wrote:

    > No, it's like saying that there are so many people in the world that I
    > could afford to exclude all Californians and I'd still have more
    > customers than I know what to do with.


    And people who might go to california once in a while...

    And that is Free Software's major problem. They see nothing wrong with
    ignoring a large percentage of the market, and then wonder why people
    ignore them.

    Linux has the same sort of problem as electric and hydrogen cars. They may
    work fine so long as you stay within the range of your house where you can
    plug-in at night, or a hydrogen fuel station, but if you want to go on a
    cross country trip, you're screwed.

    Sure, most people don't need to drive more than 300 miles from their home
    on a regular basis, but every now and then they do.. and they can't have a
    car that limits them to that.

  3. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:57:57 +0000, Homer wrote:

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Erik Funkenbusch spake thusly:
    >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:38:29 +0000, Homer wrote:
    >>> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:

    >
    >>>>> Blows the doors off of any other scripting environment out
    >>>>> there? Sounds like you're drooling again. It's a Windows-only
    >>>>> tool.
    >>>
    >>> Well Fuddie is the same guy who drooled all over Windows Home
    >>> Server (File Corruption Edition) when it first came out, like
    >>> Microsoft had just Innovatedģ the concept of backup, so what did
    >>> you expect?

    >>
    >> Bull****. What I like about WHS is the *WAY* it backs up. It
    >> coalesces duplicate files from multiple backups and multiple hosts,
    >> only requiring one physical file. It also provides complete
    >> image-like restore, where you boot from a CD and restore the entire
    >> computer back to it's state at any point in time. It also provides
    >> file-based recover, with differential backups.
    >>
    >> This is a complete system that i haven't seen anything comparable on
    >> for any platform.

    >
    > You mean like this?:
    >
    > http://backuppc.sourceforge.net


    No, that doesn't do all that. Show me the boot CD to restore a complete
    image from any point in time? It's not there.

    Not only that, but it's a pain to install and configure. There's no agent
    that runs on the client PC's to automate the tasks. Everything is web
    based.

    Having said that, Backuppc is about as close to WHS Backup as i've seen,
    but it requires a serious and knowledgable administrator to setup, WHS
    doesn't.

    Here's a prime example. The web interface has no "browse" functionality.
    You can't browse for a PC to configure, you have to type stuff in knowing
    the paths. For example:

    http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/Back...reOptions.html

    Notice how there is no way to pick the restore path, you have to type it
    in. That's just ridiculous in this day and age.

    >>> PowerShell CommandLets and Home Server ... how sad. The Vole should
    >>> leave real computing to the adults, and stop embarrassing
    >>> themselves.

    >>
    >> The only embarrassment is your ignorance. What's worse, is that
    >> you're ignorant of your ignorance, and you actually think you know
    >> what you're talking about.

    >
    > You seem to know a Hell of a lot less about Linux/FOSS than I know about
    > Windows, that's for sure. You prove that every time you start drooling
    > over the Vole's latest Innovationģ that other platforms have been doing
    > for years.


    Yet you somehow totally missed the fact that Backuppc doesn't do half of
    what WHS Backup does.

    Why is that?

  4. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:56:30 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >
    >> No, it's like saying that there are so many people in the world that I
    >> could afford to exclude all Californians and I'd still have more
    >> customers than I know what to do with.

    >
    > And people who might go to california once in a while...
    >
    > And that is Free Software's major problem. They see nothing wrong with
    > ignoring a large percentage of the market, and then wonder why people
    > ignore them.


    What "large percentage of the market", Erik?
    The vast majority of PC users don't need anything that isn't to be found in
    any linux distro by default

    > Linux has the same sort of problem as electric and hydrogen cars.


    No, it does not. For starters: Linux is not a car. Stop these idiotic car
    analogies. They are just plain dumb and miss the point 99 out of hundred

    < snip Erik F bull**** >
    --
    Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.


  5. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:43:16 +0100, Peter KŲhlmann wrote:

    >> Linux has the same sort of problem as electric and hydrogen cars.

    >
    > No, it does not. For starters: Linux is not a car. Stop these idiotic car
    > analogies. They are just plain dumb and miss the point 99 out of hundred


    You really have a hard time understanding things, don't you peter?

    Hint: I didn't say it was a car, and it's not an analogy.

    I said, it has the same sort of problem as those cars. That problem is
    that while the product may suit the users needs 95% of the time, it's the
    5% of the time it doesn't that causes Linux to continue to be overlooked.

    And the Linux community doesn't seem to be in any hurry to solve that "last
    5%" problem.

    An analogy would be if I said "linux is like a..." or "Windows is like
    a...", which i did not do. I said that Linux and alternative power cars
    face the same kind of problem, and while that's a comparison, it's not an
    analogy.

  6. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:43:16 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >>> Linux has the same sort of problem as electric and hydrogen cars.

    >>
    >> No, it does not. For starters: Linux is not a car. Stop these idiotic car
    >> analogies. They are just plain dumb and miss the point 99 out of hundred

    >
    > You really have a hard time understanding things, don't you peter?
    >
    > Hint: I didn't say it was a car, and it's not an analogy.
    >
    > I said, it has the same sort of problem as those cars. That problem is
    > that while the product may suit the users needs 95% of the time, it's the
    > 5% of the time it doesn't that causes Linux to continue to be overlooked.
    >
    > And the Linux community doesn't seem to be in any hurry to solve that
    > "last 5%" problem.


    So what are these "last 5%", Erik?
    The vast majority of users don't need anything outside of a default linux
    install. Why don't you explain what is missing, Erik?

    After all, you seem to imply that for most users linux would present
    problems. Naturally without ever stating what those problems could be

    > An analogy would be if I said "linux is like a..." or "Windows is like
    > a...", which i did not do. I said that Linux and alternative power cars
    > face the same kind of problem, and while that's a comparison, it's not an
    > analogy.


    You keep on making moronic car analogies. And they are nearly always totally
    off the mark
    And I simply don't care if you name your analogy a "comparison". It is still
    silly
    --
    Another name for a Windows tutorial is crash course


  7. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux



    "Ignoramus7766" wrote in message
    news:noqdnS-zWpcnMpLUnZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@giganews.com...
    > On 2008-11-03, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:06:05 -0600, Ignoramus22113 wrote:
    >>
    >>>> I think i understand your problem. You chose to use portable code to
    >>>> write
    >>>> your apps, which is fine, but not very performant on Windows. If
    >>>> you're
    >>>> doing heavy duty network and file I/O you're much better off using
    >>>> threading and async I/O rather than standard C functions.
    >>>
    >>> We do use threading and async I/O (using select() on both reads and
    >>> writes).

    >>
    >> That's not async I/O. That's multi-threaded I/O.

    >
    > Let me rephrase what I said.
    >
    > We use threading. (for things such as paralleling computations).
    >
    > We use async I/O, for both network reads and writes, so that reads and
    > writes are done on a "as soon as possible" basis.


    Async does it on a "as late as possible basis".
    Synchronous IO does it on a as soon as possible basis.

    Could you explain what you are trying to achieve and we will see if you have
    done it correctly.


  8. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:09:32 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

    > Async does it on a "as late as possible basis".
    > Synchronous IO does it on a as soon as possible basis.


    By that i take it you mean that Async notifies the app when a request has
    been filled, while sync unblocks as soon as it receives the first data (or
    rather as soon as the next time-slice starts after the first data has been
    received)

  9. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:43:16 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Linux has the same sort of problem as electric and hydrogen cars.
    >>> No, it does not. For starters: Linux is not a car. Stop these idiotic car
    >>> analogies. They are just plain dumb and miss the point 99 out of hundred

    >> You really have a hard time understanding things, don't you peter?
    >>
    >> Hint: I didn't say it was a car, and it's not an analogy.
    >>
    >> I said, it has the same sort of problem as those cars. That problem is
    >> that while the product may suit the users needs 95% of the time, it's the
    >> 5% of the time it doesn't that causes Linux to continue to be overlooked.
    >>
    >> And the Linux community doesn't seem to be in any hurry to solve that
    >> "last 5%" problem.

    >
    > So what are these "last 5%", Erik?
    > The vast majority of users don't need anything outside of a default linux
    > install. Why don't you explain what is missing, Erik?
    >


    Well the same goes for Macintosh really.

    But we have already identified plenty of graphics/CAD programs that are
    class leaders and don't run on Linux.

    Then there are the simulators and games.

    Plus, as my computer supplier said to me 'I've ot a ton of macros in
    those excel applications and visual basic, that wont run on Open Office
    will it?'

    etc.

    Once you step off the standard multimedia/word
    processing/spreadsheet/internet apps you step off what either a Mac or
    Linux does 'out of the box' and into ver hard territory indeed.

    No disrespect to the Gimp, but photoshop it aint.



    > After all, you seem to imply that for most users linux would present
    > problems. Naturally without ever stating what those problems could be
    >


    They have been stated over and over. You dnt ant to listen, that's all.

    The key to getting linux to work would be a Windows API or shim like
    Wine that truly duplicates ALL the windows functionality.



    >> An analogy would be if I said "linux is like a..." or "Windows is like
    >> a...", which i did not do. I said that Linux and alternative power cars
    >> face the same kind of problem, and while that's a comparison, it's not an
    >> analogy.

    >
    > You keep on making moronic car analogies. And they are nearly always totally
    > off the mark
    > And I simply don't care if you name your analogy a "comparison". It is still
    > silly


    Why cant you accept that Windows, whilst being utter crap, has about 100
    times more software that will run on it than on any other platform.

    Ubiquity.

    That's its real selling point.

  10. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:09:32 -0000, dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >> Async does it on a "as late as possible basis".
    >> Synchronous IO does it on a as soon as possible basis.

    >
    > By that i take it you mean that Async notifies the app when a request has
    > been filled, while sync unblocks as soon as it receives the first data (or
    > rather as soon as the next time-slice starts after the first data has been
    > received)


    Surely the point is that select, set to block, simply suspends the
    thread till data is received? Using no CPU while in suspense, beyond the
    normal scheduler checking for whether the thread is ready to resume?

    You don't need to do special stuff like with Windows, to ensure its not
    stuck in a polling loop.





  11. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:43:16 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> Linux has the same sort of problem as electric and hydrogen cars.
    >>>> No, it does not. For starters: Linux is not a car. Stop these idiotic
    >>>> car analogies. They are just plain dumb and miss the point 99 out of
    >>>> hundred
    >>> You really have a hard time understanding things, don't you peter?
    >>>
    >>> Hint: I didn't say it was a car, and it's not an analogy.
    >>>
    >>> I said, it has the same sort of problem as those cars. That problem is
    >>> that while the product may suit the users needs 95% of the time, it's
    >>> the 5% of the time it doesn't that causes Linux to continue to be
    >>> overlooked.
    >>>
    >>> And the Linux community doesn't seem to be in any hurry to solve that
    >>> "last 5%" problem.

    >>
    >> So what are these "last 5%", Erik?
    >> The vast majority of users don't need anything outside of a default linux
    >> install. Why don't you explain what is missing, Erik?
    >>

    >
    > Well the same goes for Macintosh really.
    >
    > But we have already identified plenty of graphics/CAD programs that are
    > class leaders and don't run on Linux.


    And are used by a small minority. We talk about "most users" here

    > Then there are the simulators and games.


    Of which lots are running under Wine. Additionally, lots of people are not
    into gaming.

    > Plus, as my computer supplier said to me 'I've ot a ton of macros in
    > those excel applications and visual basic, that wont run on Open Office
    > will it?'


    Why do you introduce that? If a user never ran Excel, he has no need to
    convert those Macros to OO Macros. He will directly create OO Macros and
    never ever see any difference. He can work just as well

    > etc.
    >
    > Once you step off the standard multimedia/word
    > processing/spreadsheet/internet apps you step off what either a Mac or
    > Linux does 'out of the box' and into ver hard territory indeed.


    Actually, no, you don't. Except for programming windows apps, I *never* run
    windows. For absolutely nothing. There is no need

    > No disrespect to the Gimp, but photoshop it aint.
    >


    And 99.99% of users don't need Photoshop.
    Actually, of 99.9% of users Gimp is already overkill

    >
    >> After all, you seem to imply that for most users linux would present
    >> problems. Naturally without ever stating what those problems could be
    >>

    >
    > They have been stated over and over. You dnt ant to listen, that's all.


    Actually, *you* don't.
    What part of "most users" needs more explanation? "Most users" don't run
    CAD. Or PhotoShop. "Most users" do email. Browse the net. Write a letter.
    You keep introducing irrelevant uses for "most users"

    > The key to getting linux to work would be a Windows API or shim like
    > Wine that truly duplicates ALL the windows functionality.
    >


    Bull****.
    >
    >>> An analogy would be if I said "linux is like a..." or "Windows is like
    >>> a...", which i did not do. I said that Linux and alternative power cars
    >>> face the same kind of problem, and while that's a comparison, it's not
    >>> an analogy.

    >>
    >> You keep on making moronic car analogies. And they are nearly always
    >> totally off the mark
    >> And I simply don't care if you name your analogy a "comparison". It is
    >> still silly

    >
    > Why cant you accept that Windows, whilst being utter crap, has about 100
    > times more software that will run on it than on any other platform.


    Because it doesn't

    > Ubiquity.
    >
    > That's its real selling point.


    And it is of no relevance whatsoever to Eriks "last 5%" claim
    --
    "Last I checked, it wasn't the power cord for the Clue Generator that
    was sticking up your ass." - John Novak, rasfwrj


  12. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On 2008-11-04, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:09:32 -0000, dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >> Async does it on a "as late as possible basis".
    >> Synchronous IO does it on a as soon as possible basis.

    >
    > By that i take it you mean that Async notifies the app when a request has
    > been filled, while sync unblocks as soon as it receives the first data (or
    > rather as soon as the next time-slice starts after the first data has been
    > received)


    In Linux, the notification of arriving data does not wait until the
    next time slice, it is all initiated by the network card and goes up
    the stack from there on. select() is interrupted when

    1) some data arrives on one of the sockets
    2) some write socket becomes available for writing
    3) timeout period expired

    I believe that the same applies to Windows and the select call blocks
    until the app can do something. The high windows kernel CPU usage that
    we saw was a result of the kernel being inefficient at moving data.

    --
    Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
    to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
    from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
    more readers you will need to find a different means of
    posting on Usenet.
    http://improve-usenet.org/

  13. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:43:16 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Linux has the same sort of problem as electric and hydrogen cars.
    >>>>> No, it does not. For starters: Linux is not a car. Stop these idiotic
    >>>>> car analogies. They are just plain dumb and miss the point 99 out of
    >>>>> hundred
    >>>> You really have a hard time understanding things, don't you peter?
    >>>>
    >>>> Hint: I didn't say it was a car, and it's not an analogy.
    >>>>
    >>>> I said, it has the same sort of problem as those cars. That problem is
    >>>> that while the product may suit the users needs 95% of the time, it's
    >>>> the 5% of the time it doesn't that causes Linux to continue to be
    >>>> overlooked.
    >>>>
    >>>> And the Linux community doesn't seem to be in any hurry to solve that
    >>>> "last 5%" problem.
    >>> So what are these "last 5%", Erik?
    >>> The vast majority of users don't need anything outside of a default linux
    >>> install. Why don't you explain what is missing, Erik?
    >>>

    >> Well the same goes for Macintosh really.
    >>
    >> But we have already identified plenty of graphics/CAD programs that are
    >> class leaders and don't run on Linux.

    >
    > And are used by a small minority. We talk about "most users" here
    >


    Most Linux users? or most users of PC's?

    Sorry, but your opinion is just an opinion. All the people I *know* who
    actually USE computers in business, need things that aren't available on
    linux.



    >> Then there are the simulators and games.

    >
    > Of which lots are running under Wine. Additionally, lots of people are not
    > into gaming.


    But lots are.
    For many its the prime reason to buy one.

    >
    >> Plus, as my computer supplier said to me 'I've ot a ton of macros in
    >> those excel applications and visual basic, that wont run on Open Office
    >> will it?'

    >
    > Why do you introduce that? If a user never ran Excel,


    Ah, but we are talking about migration costs of legacy apps.
    Thats what this whole issue is about. The fact that there are about 100
    windows programs out there for every Linux one.



    > he has no need to
    > convert those Macros to OO Macros. He will directly create OO Macros and
    > never ever see any difference. He can work just as well
    >


    He would since that was the platform all the development was done on.

    >> etc.
    >>
    >> Once you step off the standard multimedia/word
    >> processing/spreadsheet/internet apps you step off what either a Mac or
    >> Linux does 'out of the box' and into ver hard territory indeed.

    >
    > Actually, no, you don't. Except for programming windows apps, I *never* run
    > windows. For absolutely nothing. There is no need
    >


    You are a programmer. You don't need to run some specialised bit of
    hardware that ONLY has a windows driver. You don't need to swap data
    from some obscure application with customers who only have PC's.


    >> No disrespect to the Gimp, but photoshop it aint.
    >>

    >
    > And 99.99% of users don't need Photoshop.
    > Actually, of 99.9% of users Gimp is already overkill
    >


    Thats your *opinion*: in terms of any semi professional image
    manipulation, photoshop is the de facto standard, and really works.
    So you have just basically crashed teh whole media industry by requiring
    them to rrun Linux. Hardly a 'small' industry.


    You wont get Indesign or Quark express to run on Linux either. So that
    is one VAST industry that depends on computers that cannot use Linux.
    Thyey CAN use Mac's fortunately,which is better than a PC on windows.



    >>> After all, you seem to imply that for most users linux would present
    >>> problems. Naturally without ever stating what those problems could be
    >>>

    >> They have been stated over and over. You dnt ant to listen, that's all.

    >
    > Actually, *you* don't.
    > What part of "most users" needs more explanation? "Most users" don't run
    > CAD. Or PhotoShop. "Most users" do email. Browse the net. Write a letter.
    > You keep introducing irrelevant uses for "most users"
    >


    Most usres ALSO want to do something more.

    You have your head stuck up your arse if you think that that is *all*
    the majority of users want.Most want SOMETHING more. It might be
    graphics manipulation - CAD or artwork.., it might be gaming, it might
    be driving some special hardware, or a simulator. It might be using some
    particular math package the only works on Windows..it might be a music
    processing package. The list is endless.


    And if that is ALL a user wants, why choose Linux anyway? Mac OSX does
    all that, and it has implied support and very easy installation. Only
    the cost lets it down. But thats the price you pay for 'plug'n'play'



    >> The key to getting linux to work would be a Windows API or shim like
    >> Wine that truly duplicates ALL the windows functionality.
    >>

    >
    > Bull****.


    Same top you.

    Linux will never succeed as a mainstream desktop until everyone writes
    programs that run on it. Right now desktops are about 95% Windows, 5%
    Macs, and almost zero Linux. Its not worth porting commercial apps to it.




    >>>> An analogy would be if I said "linux is like a..." or "Windows is like
    >>>> a...", which i did not do. I said that Linux and alternative power cars
    >>>> face the same kind of problem, and while that's a comparison, it's not
    >>>> an analogy.
    >>> You keep on making moronic car analogies. And they are nearly always
    >>> totally off the mark
    >>> And I simply don't care if you name your analogy a "comparison". It is
    >>> still silly

    >> Why cant you accept that Windows, whilst being utter crap, has about 100
    >> times more software that will run on it than on any other platform.

    >
    > Because it doesn't
    >


    Well just go and do some googling on any amount of software packages
    that are available for sale, and see how many actually run on linux.


    >> Ubiquity.
    >>
    >> That's its real selling point.

    >
    > And it is of no relevance whatsoever to Eriks "last 5%" claim


    Well believe what you must. I prefer to stick to what I know is facts. I
    must have installed systems in over 100 different companies in my time.
    WINPC's predominate largely because its the one platform they know that
    if they cant get a particular bit of software to run on, it probably
    doesn't exist. its a safe choice.


  14. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    >Whatever, Erik. The chart certainly "blows the doors off" of your claim
    >that Powershell "blows the doors off" of the open-source alternatives.


    Maybe the world's largest software company *can* actually design
    something that's worth a ****, once in a while. Late to the party, of
    course...

    --
    "The great majority of Windows application SW is eons better than it's
    OSS copy or alternative." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

  15. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    dumbass@home wrote:

    >It has already been shown that it is possible to hide stuff in OSS by
    >modifying the compiler so I hope you disassemble your compiler and check it
    >isn't hiding backdoors in everything you compile.


    Sheesh, first your MD5 idiocy and now this.

    Dumbass, do you buy insurance against an asteroid falling on your
    house, but eschew fire and theft insurance?


  16. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On 2008-11-04, chrisv claimed:
    > Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    >
    >>Whatever, Erik. The chart certainly "blows the doors off" of your claim
    >>that Powershell "blows the doors off" of the open-source alternatives.

    >
    > Maybe the world's largest software company *can* actually design
    > something that's worth a ****, once in a while. Late to the party, of
    > course...


    I doubt they designed it. Probably got it from one of the companies
    they absorbed, or stole it from one of the multitudes of companies they
    [will eventually] bankrupt[ed].

    --
    Exxon sponsored ecology videos, Kraft sponsored nutrition videos...
    I'd be surprised if Microsoft isn't sponsoring technology classes.

  17. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux



    "Ignoramus14339" wrote in message
    news:y7Cdnd6Dia_0zY3UnZ2dnUVZ_qvinZ2d@giganews.com ...
    > On 2008-11-04, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:09:32 -0000, dennis@home wrote:
    >>
    >>> Async does it on a "as late as possible basis".
    >>> Synchronous IO does it on a as soon as possible basis.

    >>
    >> By that i take it you mean that Async notifies the app when a request has
    >> been filled, while sync unblocks as soon as it receives the first data
    >> (or
    >> rather as soon as the next time-slice starts after the first data has
    >> been
    >> received)

    >
    > In Linux, the notification of arriving data does not wait until the
    > next time slice, it is all initiated by the network card and goes up
    > the stack from there on. select() is interrupted when
    >
    > 1) some data arrives on one of the sockets
    > 2) some write socket becomes available for writing
    > 3) timeout period expired
    >
    > I believe that the same applies to Windows and the select call blocks
    > until the app can do something. The high windows kernel CPU usage that
    > we saw was a result of the kernel being inefficient at moving data.


    If an application does mainly IO I would expect it to have high kernel cpu
    figures, it is the kernel that should be doing most of the work.




  18. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux



    "chrisv" wrote in message
    news:dqm0h416267o4ijij71ennv45ia7femc70@4ax.com...
    > dumbass@home wrote:
    >
    >>It has already been shown that it is possible to hide stuff in OSS by
    >>modifying the compiler so I hope you disassemble your compiler and check
    >>it
    >>isn't hiding backdoors in everything you compile.

    >
    > Sheesh, first your MD5 idiocy and now this.
    >
    > Dumbass, do you buy insurance against an asteroid falling on your
    > house, but eschew fire and theft insurance?
    >


    I see the morons are waking up.



  19. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    dennis@home wrote:
    >
    > If an application does mainly IO I would expect it to have high kernel
    > cpu figures, it is the kernel that should be doing most of the work.
    >

    With modern (post 1965) hardware, neither the application nor the kernel
    should have high cpu figures. The data device controller handles the
    transfer of data and the kernel is busy only to set up the device transfer,
    and to post the result when it gets an interrupt from the device.

    In a single application situation such as you offer, the cpu should
    primarily be in a wait state.


    --
    .~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
    /V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
    /( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
    ^^-^^ 10:50:02 up 1:08, 4 users, load average: 4.11, 4.12, 4.04

  20. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:22:26 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:43:16 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Linux has the same sort of problem as electric and hydrogen cars.
    >>>>> No, it does not. For starters: Linux is not a car. Stop these
    >>>>> idiotic car analogies. They are just plain dumb and miss the point
    >>>>> 99 out of hundred
    >>>> You really have a hard time understanding things, don't you peter?
    >>>>
    >>>> Hint: I didn't say it was a car, and it's not an analogy.
    >>>>
    >>>> I said, it has the same sort of problem as those cars. That problem
    >>>> is that while the product may suit the users needs 95% of the time,
    >>>> it's the 5% of the time it doesn't that causes Linux to continue to
    >>>> be overlooked.
    >>>>
    >>>> And the Linux community doesn't seem to be in any hurry to solve that
    >>>> "last 5%" problem.
    >>>
    >>> So what are these "last 5%", Erik?
    >>> The vast majority of users don't need anything outside of a default
    >>> linux install. Why don't you explain what is missing, Erik?
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Well the same goes for Macintosh really.
    >>
    >> But we have already identified plenty of graphics/CAD programs that are
    >> class leaders and don't run on Linux.

    >
    > And are used by a small minority. We talk about "most users" here


    Thanks for carrying on the good fight, Peter. Just got back from voting
    and I've got to hit the road in about 10 minutes and won't be back for
    somewhere between 1 and 6 weeks.

    (You'd think a country this size could come up with a better choice than
    Laural/Hardy or Abbott/Costello. )

    >> Then there are the simulators and games.

    >
    > Of which lots are running under Wine. Additionally, lots of people are
    > not into gaming.


    See my earlier post. 350,000,000 Internet users, if we can satisfy one out
    of 10 that gives a user base of 35,000,000. But based on the many people
    I've moved to Linux I think we're doing a whole lot better than 1 out of
    10. And despite all the FUD and nay-saying in this thread, the fact is
    that Linux *is* being eagerly embraced by corporations, governments,
    home users, etc., because it *is* serving their needs.

    Perhaps the best evidence that Erik and his trolling pals are full of it
    is Microsoft's response to Linux. Linux is the *only* OS competitor to
    *ever* force Microsoft to deeply discount Windows licenses by the
    millions, or even give them away for free, in order to keep its current
    users from defecting and new customers from choosing the competitor.

    >> Plus, as my computer supplier said to me 'I've ot a ton of macros in
    >> those excel applications and visual basic, that wont run on Open Office
    >> will it?'

    >
    > Why do you introduce that? If a user never ran Excel, he has no need to
    > convert those Macros to OO Macros. He will directly create OO Macros and
    > never ever see any difference. He can work just as well
    >
    >> etc.
    >>
    >> Once you step off the standard multimedia/word
    >> processing/spreadsheet/internet apps you step off what either a Mac or
    >> Linux does 'out of the box' and into ver hard territory indeed.

    >
    > Actually, no, you don't. Except for programming windows apps, I *never*
    > run windows. For absolutely nothing. There is no need


    The one and only time I've needed Windows for anything in recent years
    was to run GPS software in a VM. That was soon replaced with a
    standalone unit that sits conveniently on my visor. My mother's using
    nothing but Linux, my sister is using nothing but Linux, my cousin's
    using nothing but Linux, many of my friends and neighbors are now using
    nothing but Linux, and they all continue to use Linux because it fills
    their needs and desires better than Windows.

    As long as I'm getting in parting shots: Despite the statistics someone
    else quoted from a biased gaming-related site, none of the
    computer-owning adults *I* know play graphics-intensive computer games,
    though they do enjoy card games and strategy games like Sokoban. Grown
    adults tend to be more into games that challenge and develop thinking
    skills, rather than one's ability to slaughter human beings and frag
    ridiculous monsters. Just look in on any shopping-mall gaming arcade,
    and at least 95% (and probably 100%) of the people you'll see at the
    games are kids.

    >> No disrespect to the Gimp, but photoshop it aint.
    >>
    >>

    > And 99.99% of users don't need Photoshop. Actually, of 99.9% of users
    > Gimp is already overkill


    The average home user needs Photoshop about as much as they need a $3500
    Nikon.

    >> Why cant you accept that Windows, whilst being utter crap, has about
    >> 100 times more software that will run on it than on any other platform.

    >
    > Because it doesn't


    We're at a disadvantage here because we can't point to very many Linux
    applications and say that Windows doesn't have them. But that's because
    Linux developers freely share, whereas virtually all Windows
    applications *except* for the 30,000 or so freely given to them by the
    Linux crowd, are tightly held, non-portable, closed-source, Windows-only
    applications. Even most Windows freeware is closed source and thus can't
    be ported by others.

    I've really got to get going now, but that begs a parting question: If
    Linux and OSS developers were as ungenerous with their code as Windows
    developers, what applications and features would Linux users now have
    that Windows users would lack?



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