My employer completed migration of apps to Linux - Linux

This is a discussion on My employer completed migration of apps to Linux - Linux ; "snipe" stated in post 4sqdndYTAf6I_5LUnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@supernews.com on 11/3/08 1:41 PM: > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:10:32 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote: > >> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0600, snipe wrote: >> >>>> The truth is that Linux is a ...

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Thread: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

  1. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    "snipe" stated in post
    4sqdndYTAf6I_5LUnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@supernews.com on 11/3/08 1:41 PM:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:10:32 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>
    >>>> The truth is that Linux is a great server, but struggles as a dektop
    >>>> due to lack of apps.
    >>>
    >>> What applications would that be? The only thing I can think of is
    >>> games, but none of the computer-owning adults I know are into computer
    >>> games.

    >>
    >> There are literally Millions of third party, vertical apps. Stuff
    >> that's been written in-house in VB or stuff designed for a specific
    >> market (Soil conservation, Agriculture, Water Treatment, Healthcare,
    >> Business Intelligence, etc..).

    >
    > None of which are relevant to the majority of users, and the few who
    > can't live without an application could just run it in a virtual
    > machine. Chances are they had to pay for a Windows licence when they
    > bought their computer anyway, so they might as well get a little use out
    > of it.


    Apps I have used in the last 24 hours which have, as far as I know, no equal
    on Linux:

    * Dreamweaver
    * Photoshop
    * iWeb
    * Automator
    * even Mail, with its "QuickLook" feature - use it all the time
    * FileMaker Pro

    I also used programs where there are Linux programs that would work just
    fine for what I have done:
    * Web browsing - with both Firefox and a Webkit browser
    * RSS client - though what on Linux is as good as NetNewsWire?
    I assume their must be something.
    * iChat / Adium
    * iTunes. Nothing I have done with it could not be done in Linux
    just as well
    * TextWrangler
    * TextEdit
    * MS Word
    * Pages
    * Chicken of the VNC
    * Entourage
    * Preview

    But, of course, to get such a group of software you would inevitably end up
    with a mish-mash of UIs... and thus as a system it would not work as well as
    what I am using now (nor would it for most people with anything beyond
    simple needs).

    Linux is getting better on the desktop, but let us not pretend it is fully
    "ready" for the general desktop... not compared to the competition, anyway.



    --
    It usually takes me more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu
    speech. -- Mark Twain


  2. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:46:45 -0600, Stephan Rose wrote:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:29:38 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >
    >
    >> And many other Linux developers are of the opinion that we should have
    >> nothing to do with Windows apps because accommodating them will blunt
    >> efforts to create open-source alternatives. Many developers and users
    >> are even openly hostile towards WINE.
    >>
    >> Personally, I don't care either way because I don't need any Windows
    >> apps and if I did I'd just run them in a virtual machine. Autocad?
    >> Photoshop? No problem at all.

    >
    > Great for you. Now go try to run Solidworks in a virtual machine and get
    > back to me when you completely and utterly fail.


    I don't need Solidworks, or any of the other niche applications that
    most people have never heard of and don't care about. But for what it's
    worth, we're only about a year from VM software that uses the host's
    video graphics acceleration from inside the guest. I don't remember for
    sure, but I think it was the KVM guys who were working on that.

  3. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:47:42 -0600, Stephan Rose wrote:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:41:57 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:10:32 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> The truth is that Linux is a great server, but struggles as a dektop
    >>>>> due to lack of apps.
    >>>>
    >>>> What applications would that be? The only thing I can think of is
    >>>> games, but none of the computer-owning adults I know are into
    >>>> computer games.
    >>>
    >>> There are literally Millions of third party, vertical apps. Stuff
    >>> that's been written in-house in VB or stuff designed for a specific
    >>> market (Soil conservation, Agriculture, Water Treatment, Healthcare,
    >>> Business Intelligence, etc..).

    >>
    >> None of which are relevant to the majority of users, and the few who
    >> can't live without an application could just run it in a virtual
    >> machine (as long as it doesn't require 3D Acceleration). Chances are
    >> they had to pay for a Windows licence when they bought their computer
    >> anyway, so they might as well get a little use out of it.

    >
    > Fixed the above paragraph for you (and I'm sorry for being a moron)


    Thank you. I fixed yours, too.


  4. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:12:53 -0600, snipe wrote:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:46:45 -0600, Stephan Rose wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:29:38 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> And many other Linux developers are of the opinion that we should have
    >>> nothing to do with Windows apps because accommodating them will blunt
    >>> efforts to create open-source alternatives. Many developers and users
    >>> are even openly hostile towards WINE.
    >>>
    >>> Personally, I don't care either way because I don't need any Windows
    >>> apps and if I did I'd just run them in a virtual machine. Autocad?
    >>> Photoshop? No problem at all.

    >>
    >> Great for you. Now go try to run Solidworks in a virtual machine and
    >> get back to me when you completely and utterly fail.

    >
    > I don't need Solidworks, or any of the other niche applications that
    > most people have never heard of and don't care about. But for what it's
    > worth, we're only about a year from VM software that uses the host's
    > video graphics acceleration from inside the guest. I don't remember for
    > sure, but I think it was the KVM guys who were working on that.


    As if Autocad isn't a niche application that most people have never heard
    of and don't care about. While the chances of someone at least knowing
    the name Autocad might be higher than them knowing the name Solidworks,
    the chances of most people caring about either one are somewhere below
    none.

    That said, I hope you're right about the video graphics acceleration. If
    that really works out like that, I can stop wasting a whole drive for
    windows.

    --
    Stephan
    1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

  5. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:18:43 -0600, snipe wrote:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:47:42 -0600, Stephan Rose wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:41:57 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:10:32 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> The truth is that Linux is a great server, but struggles as a
    >>>>>> dektop due to lack of apps.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What applications would that be? The only thing I can think of is
    >>>>> games, but none of the computer-owning adults I know are into
    >>>>> computer games.
    >>>>
    >>>> There are literally Millions of third party, vertical apps. Stuff
    >>>> that's been written in-house in VB or stuff designed for a specific
    >>>> market (Soil conservation, Agriculture, Water Treatment, Healthcare,
    >>>> Business Intelligence, etc..).
    >>>
    >>> None of which are relevant to the majority of users, and the few who
    >>> can't live without an application could just run it in a virtual
    >>> machine (as long as it doesn't require 3D Acceleration). Chances are
    >>> they had to pay for a Windows licence when they bought their computer
    >>> anyway, so they might as well get a little use out of it.

    >>
    >> Fixed the above paragraph for you (and I'm sorry for being a moron)

    >
    > Thank you. I fixed yours, too.


    Your statement was only correct under the assumption that the app doesn't
    use any 3D acceleration. A lot of apps that do any kind of 3D
    visualization that go beyond a 3D bar char these days are very likely to
    use 3D acceleration.

    --
    Stephan
    1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

    君の事思い出す日なんてないのは
    君の事忘れたときがないから

  6. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:01:04 -0700, Snit wrote:

    The usual snit snot.

  7. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:41:57 -0600, snipe wrote:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:10:32 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>
    >>>> The truth is that Linux is a great server, but struggles as a dektop
    >>>> due to lack of apps.
    >>>
    >>> What applications would that be? The only thing I can think of is
    >>> games, but none of the computer-owning adults I know are into computer
    >>> games.

    >>
    >> There are literally Millions of third party, vertical apps. Stuff
    >> that's been written in-house in VB or stuff designed for a specific
    >> market (Soil conservation, Agriculture, Water Treatment, Healthcare,
    >> Business Intelligence, etc..).

    >
    > None of which are relevant to the majority of users


    Yes, they are. The part you don't get is that the majority of users are a
    member of *SOME* niche. You can't look at one niche and say "Oh, that's
    only 1% of the users", because if you add up all the niches, you end up
    with a vast majority of users.

    > and the few who can't live without an application could just run it in a
    > virtual machine.


    Why run two OS's when you can do everything you need in one?

  8. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Gregory Shearman wrote:

    > Oh that's right, you're dennis-"MD5"-at-home.


    otherwise known as "Hadron Quark"

    >
    > You'll paint yourself into a corner on this one, as usual.


    just as Hadron Quark does.

    >
    > There's a new windows virus|worm|trojan|malware attack every week.
    > Windows systems are bogged down by their virus checkers, yet where are
    > these linux threats? In your own mind, dennis@lights-on-no-one-home.
    >

    you do realize that you are just arguing with the Hadron Quack asshole who
    is posting under another nym, don't you?

  9. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    "snipe" stated in post
    T-2dneima5tB8ZLUnZ2dnUVZ_rHinZ2d@supernews.com on 11/3/08 2:27 PM:

    >>> None of which are relevant to the majority of users, and the few who
    >>> can't live without an application could just run it in a virtual
    >>> machine. Chances are they had to pay for a Windows licence when they
    >>> bought their computer anyway, so they might as well get a little use out
    >>> of it.

    >>
    >> Apps I have used in the last 24 hours which have, as far as I know, no equal
    >> on Linux:
    >>
    >> * Dreamweaver
    >> * Photoshop
    >> * iWeb
    >> * Automator
    >> * even Mail, with its "QuickLook" feature - use it all the time
    >> * FileMaker Pro
    >>
    >> I also used programs where there are Linux programs that would work just fine
    >> for what I have done:
    >> * Web browsing - with both Firefox and a Webkit browser
    >> * RSS client - though what on Linux is as good as NetNewsWire?
    >> I assume their must be something.
    >> * iChat / Adium
    >> * iTunes. Nothing I have done with it could not be done in Linux
    >> just as well
    >> * TextWrangler
    >> * TextEdit
    >> * MS Word
    >> * Pages
    >> * Chicken of the VNC
    >> * Entourage
    >> * Preview
    >>
    >> But, of course, to get such a group of software you would inevitably end up
    >> with a mish-mash of UIs... and thus as a system it would not work as well as
    >> what I am using now (nor would it for most people with anything beyond simple
    >> needs).
    >>
    >> Linux is getting better on the desktop, but let us not pretend it is fully
    >> "ready" for the general desktop... not compared to the competition, anyway.


    > The usual snit snot.


    Am I to assume you disagree? Disagree: but you are not able to say where
    you think I am wrong or why. OK. No harm done.


    --
    If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
    Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)






  10. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    "snipe" stated in post
    44idnQdKZO7I9JLUnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@supernews.com on 11/3/08 2:12 PM:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:46:45 -0600, Stephan Rose wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:29:38 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> And many other Linux developers are of the opinion that we should have
    >>> nothing to do with Windows apps because accommodating them will blunt
    >>> efforts to create open-source alternatives. Many developers and users
    >>> are even openly hostile towards WINE.
    >>>
    >>> Personally, I don't care either way because I don't need any Windows
    >>> apps and if I did I'd just run them in a virtual machine. Autocad?
    >>> Photoshop? No problem at all.

    >>
    >> Great for you. Now go try to run Solidworks in a virtual machine and get
    >> back to me when you completely and utterly fail.

    >
    > I don't need Solidworks, or any of the other niche applications that
    > most people have never heard of and don't care about. But for what it's
    > worth, we're only about a year from VM software that uses the host's
    > video graphics acceleration from inside the guest. I don't remember for
    > sure, but I think it was the KVM guys who were working on that.


    I would love that - I use both VMware and Parallels, and neither has
    excellent video performance. For Windows it is OK... for Linux it is poor.
    I hope that improves.


    --
    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
    conscientious stupidity. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.


  11. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Stephan Rose wrote:
    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:29:38 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >
    >
    >> And many other Linux developers are of the opinion that we should have
    >> nothing to do with Windows apps because accommodating them will blunt
    >> efforts to create open-source alternatives. Many developers and users
    >> are even openly hostile towards WINE.
    >>
    >> Personally, I don't care either way because I don't need any Windows
    >> apps and if I did I'd just run them in a virtual machine. Autocad?
    >> Photoshop? No problem at all.

    >
    > Great for you. Now go try to run Solidworks in a virtual machine and get
    > back to me when you completely and utterly fail.
    >

    Yep. Thats one I need to get going too.


  12. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:06:58 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:41:57 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:10:32 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> The truth is that Linux is a great server, but struggles as a dektop
    >>>>> due to lack of apps.
    >>>>
    >>>> What applications would that be? The only thing I can think of is
    >>>> games, but none of the computer-owning adults I know are into
    >>>> computer games.
    >>>
    >>> There are literally Millions of third party, vertical apps. Stuff
    >>> that's been written in-house in VB or stuff designed for a specific
    >>> market (Soil conservation, Agriculture, Water Treatment, Healthcare,
    >>> Business Intelligence, etc..).

    >>
    >> None of which are relevant to the majority of users

    >
    > Yes, they are.


    No, they aren't.

    >> and the few who can't live without an application could just run it in
    >> a virtual machine.

    >
    > Why run two OS's when you can do everything you need in one?


    Because Windows doesn't do everything they need.

  13. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    > If you want to e.g. set up a dentists surgery, everything you need is on
    > windows. Some of it may exist on Linux, but you may have to spend a lot
    > of time finding it.


    Funnily enough, my brother-in-law is a dentist, and migrated away from Windows
    brokenware about two years ago. He has a very effective on-line booking
    system, and handles all his accounts using entirely FOSS. He's no Linux
    advocate, but just wants to get his job done.

    > The same for just about any business that does more than send the odd
    > email and write the odd letter.


    Nope. My business uses some /very/ unusual software and /all/ of it is FOSS
    based. We have no place whatsoever for proprietary software.

    C.


  14. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On 2008-11-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    > snipe wrote:
    >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 11:09:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >>
    >>> snipe wrote:
    >>>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 21:26:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Jim Moss wrote:
    >>>>>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:59:21 +0000, dennis@home wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:8SiPk.56808$bx1.52267@bignews1.bellsouth.net. ..
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Yeah, but why bother running OSS on Windows?
    >>>>>>> Why not?
    >>>>>>> There is a lot of OSS out there and most of it runs fine on vista.
    >>>>>> So do viruses, trojans, DRM, WGA, and probably more than a few
    >>>>>> Microsoft and US government back doors.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> The truth is that Linux is a great server, but struggles as a dektop
    >>>>> due to lack of apps.
    >>>> What applications would that be? The only thing I can think of is
    >>>> games, but none of the computer-owning adults I know are into computer
    >>>> games.
    >>> Show me Corel Draw for Linux, and i am yours darling. Or the Adobe
    >>> graphics suite..
    >>>
    >>> Or in fact any one of a zillion specialist programs that people meed for
    >>> arcane functions to do their particular niche job, or hobby.
    >>>
    >>> Don't tell me there are drawing programs for Linux. They don't work as
    >>> well, or as productively.

    >>
    >> Niches are, by definition, only required by a very small percentage of
    >> users.

    >
    > Bollocks.
    >
    > Thats like saying that because very few people need 2.75 diopter
    > astigmatic corrected lenses in their left eye, very few people need
    > glasses at all.
    >
    > Almost everyone has one or more apps they 'couldn't do without'
    >
    > Once you wander off 'WP/spreadsheet/browser/mail/play music/watch
    > videos/' there are millions of of little things computers are useful for.


    Yup. A number of them are the sorts where the users in those niches
    are just as likely to be contributors to the state of the art as they are
    consumers of it. So the inheritor of MS-DOS may or many not necessarily
    be dominant or be in the best position.

    >
    >
    >
    > The world's a very big place, an OS can be quite successful by
    >> avoiding the manpower-intensive niches and concentrating only on the
    >> needs of the majority of users. There was a time when Window
    >> applications didn't even begin to fill in all the niches, yet Windows
    >> still found a worldwide market.
    >>

    >
    > Windows helped *create* most of the niches actually.


    Not quite. If anything has been responsible for niche
    computing it has been the non-PC platforms that were trying
    to push the envelope and be more than just a platoform for
    spreadsheets and accounting software.

    Although there were plenty of verticals that latched onto
    MS-DOS as the standard platform. "Windows" as such didn't
    "create" anything and if anything merely inherited the idea
    that MS-DOS was the platform blessed by the previous monopoly.

    [deletia]

    --
    Linux: because everyone should get to drink the beer of their |||
    choice and not merely be limited to pretensious imports or hard cider. / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  15. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    snipe writes:

    >> You lead a sheltered life then.
    >> One of the biggest uses for PCs is to play games.

    >
    > Not around here it isn't. But then, I only hang out with adults.



    "The CEA study found that 65 percent of women in the 25-34 age bracket
    play video games, while only 35 percent of men in that group said that
    they play video games. Apparently, the key factor involved with these
    findings is the increasing popularity of casual games, especially
    among women."

    http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/fe...p/68821/?biz=1


  16. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Verily I say unto thee, that Erik Funkenbusch spake thusly:
    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:38:29 +0000, Homer wrote:
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:


    >>>> Blows the doors off of any other scripting environment out
    >>>> there? Sounds like you're drooling again. It's a Windows-only
    >>>> tool.

    >>
    >> Well Fuddie is the same guy who drooled all over Windows Home
    >> Server (File Corruption Edition) when it first came out, like
    >> Microsoft had just Innovated® the concept of backup, so what did
    >> you expect?

    >
    > Bull****. What I like about WHS is the *WAY* it backs up. It
    > coalesces duplicate files from multiple backups and multiple hosts,
    > only requiring one physical file. It also provides complete
    > image-like restore, where you boot from a CD and restore the entire
    > computer back to it's state at any point in time. It also provides
    > file-based recover, with differential backups.
    >
    > This is a complete system that i haven't seen anything comparable on
    > for any platform.


    You mean like this?:

    http://backuppc.sourceforge.net

    >> PowerShell CommandLets and Home Server ... how sad. The Vole should
    >> leave real computing to the adults, and stop embarrassing
    >> themselves.

    >
    > The only embarrassment is your ignorance. What's worse, is that
    > you're ignorant of your ignorance, and you actually think you know
    > what you're talking about.


    You seem to know a Hell of a lot less about Linux/FOSS than I know about
    Windows, that's for sure. You prove that every time you start drooling
    over the Vole's latest Innovation® that other platforms have been doing
    for years.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
    | the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
    | weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
    01:57:34 up 24 days, 11:53, 3 users, load average: 0.13, 0.07, 0.05

  17. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Verily I say unto thee, that Thad Floryan spake thusly:
    > On Nov 2, 7:48 pm, Homer wrote:
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that Thad Floryan spake thusly:
    >>> On Nov 2, 1:55 pm, Erik Hahn wrote:


    >>>> [...] Name one single in-the-wild virus that runs on Linux.
    >>> Linux.RST.B
    >>>
    >>> Google "Linux.RST.B". It's still active.
    >>> [...]

    >> Show me a citation from someone who was actually infected.

    >
    > For either Linux.OSF (aka Linux.Jac.8759) or Linux.RST.B,
    > Google quickly found these interesting ones from among many
    > publicly posted:
    >
    > <http://www.shandyking.com/2006/04/20...-linuxrstb-my-
    > server-was-just-hacked/>


    It appears the hacker gained access to your server by using the ”news”
    user, and then elevated his/her privileges to root using a brute force
    password hack, or via a local kernel exploit
    That's not an "infection", it's someone hacking in to an improperly
    secured system.

    > <http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...rity-4/rh-7.3-
    > server-infected-with-linux.jac.8759-and-linux.rst.b-virus-116197/>


    Nearly all files in "/bin" and /usr/bin" have been infected.
    Again, the only way that could happen would be if root activated the
    payload by executing an infected file, so like the previous example this
    was either delivered by a hacker gaining access to an improperly secured
    system, or by the sysadmin abusing root to run software from unverified
    sources - i.e. bad practise. In any case, I still don't see how this is
    an "infection" in the sense that Linux security was actually defeated by
    the virus itself. The security was "defeated" by an ignorant sysadmin
    who could no doubt be just as easily tripped up by a bash script and
    some social engineering.

    > <http://www.derkeiler.com/pdf/Mailing...ocus/pen-test/
    > 2002-05/0010.pdf>


    This doesn't detail the attack vector exploited in the "researcher's"
    case, but again requires root access.

    > <http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/l...002-September/
    > 004222.html>


    I got the below popup when I tried to get a binary from a few Windows
    2000 boxes (by means of a dos prompt) to a RH72 box running 2.4.9-34 on
    a PowerEdge 2400.
    This proves nothing except that a Windows 2000 system was playing host
    to a Linux virus.

    > <http://groups.google.com/group/comp....ty/browse_frm/
    > thread/bcab6a78bebf6ebd/5cc9b3f2453aea73?
    > lnk=gst&q=jedsoft.org#5cc9b3f2453aea73>


    Whatever "phaslanx2" is, Google only has two hits for it, and they're
    both the same message. Again, root access required.

    > Another vulnerable vector besides "downloads from the wild" is
    > the basically unsecure Linux repository system per this report
    > from the University of Amsterdam (July 2007):
    >
    >


    Public key infrastructures The best way to secure an update session is
    to use a form of public key infrastructure (PKI). This can be a form of
    PGP (RFC 1991) (Pretty good privacy) that relies on signed public keys.
    Digital (public) certificates must be signed by a independent and trusted
    third party to ensure validity. Therefore, most organizations use a
    release-signing key to sign every release file of official packages. From
    there, an encrypted and safe update session can be performed automatically.
    You obviously failed to read the entire analysis, otherwise you'd
    realise that it does not not conclude that the repository system is
    "basically unsecure(sic)" at all. What it "concludes" is that if you run
    software from untrusted sources then you may be at risk, and that
    vendors who don't provide a secure update mechanism (signed packages)
    have no way to guarantee the integrity of those packages to their users.

    This essay is a rather long-winded statement of the obvious, speculating
    about something that doesn't happen. IOW it's little more than FUD.

    > and this one from the University of Arizona (2008):
    >
    >


    Ditto, only this time the "researcher" depends on hacking into
    improperly secured repos, or failing that, slowing them down with a
    DDoS. Such things do not exactly go unnoticed, and if/when something
    like the former happens then signing keys are revoked; the servers are
    taken off-line; the packages are rebuilt, resigned with the new key then
    published; the users are notified; the servers are brought back online;
    and the "hacker" is prosecuted.

    Brute force attacks like this no more make Linux somehow "insecure" than
    your house is "insecure" because someone could smash the door down with
    a sledgehammer.

    > And let's not forget the Morris Worm whose 20th anniversary is
    > today (November 2, 1988):


    Let's not forget that worms, just like viruses and rootkits, still need
    root access to actually do any real damage, and like I've already said,
    standard practise on Linux is to not run as root. Linux users also tend
    to obtain their software from a single vendor (the distro) using signed
    packages. The same things cannot be said about Windows.

    > If you'd like to test-infect your system with several Linux
    > viruses, the URLs were recently posted to comp.os.linux.security


    "Testing" is about the only things Linux viruses are useful for.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
    | the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
    | weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
    01:57:54 up 24 days, 11:53, 3 users, load average: 0.09, 0.06, 0.05

  18. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    snipe wrote:
    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:06:58 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:41:57 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:10:32 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0600, snipe wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> The truth is that Linux is a great server, but struggles as a dektop
    >>>>>> due to lack of apps.
    >>>>> What applications would that be? The only thing I can think of is
    >>>>> games, but none of the computer-owning adults I know are into
    >>>>> computer games.
    >>>> There are literally Millions of third party, vertical apps. Stuff
    >>>> that's been written in-house in VB or stuff designed for a specific
    >>>> market (Soil conservation, Agriculture, Water Treatment, Healthcare,
    >>>> Business Intelligence, etc..).
    >>> None of which are relevant to the majority of users

    >> Yes, they are.

    >
    > No, they aren't.
    >
    >>> and the few who can't live without an application could just run it in
    >>> a virtual machine.

    >> Why run two OS's when you can do everything you need in one?

    >
    > Because Windows doesn't do everything they need.


    There is only one OS that can do everything I need and its windows.

    Fortunately, because it does them remarkably badly, and old machines are
    virtually free, I can take the stuff that other platforms do BETTER and
    leave windows to run the three apps that nothing else in my setup can do.

    Instead of making judgement calls abbout what other people want, go and
    work in computing at the user support end, and see what people ACTUALLY
    use them for.



  19. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > snipe wrote:
    >
    >> None of which are relevant to the majority of users

    >
    > Yes, they are. The part you don't get is that the majority of
    > users are a member of *SOME* niche. You can't look at one
    > niche and say "Oh, that's only 1% of the users", because if
    > you add up all the niches, you end up with a vast majority of
    > users.


    Good description of Linux. Niches are harder to count than
    market shares.

    >> and the few who can't live without an application could just
    >> run it in a virtual machine.

    >
    > Why run two OS's when you can do everything you need in one?


    True, go with Lotus notes and Linux, dump M$ Office and Vista.
    I'm all for a true Blue solution.

    --
    HPT
    Quando omni flunkus moritati
    (If all else fails, play dead)
    - "Red" Green

  20. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On 2008-11-03, none of your buisiness wrote:
    > Gregory Shearman wrote:
    >
    >> Oh that's right, you're dennis-"MD5"-at-home.

    >
    > otherwise known as "Hadron Quark"
    >
    >>
    >> You'll paint yourself into a corner on this one, as usual.

    >
    > just as Hadron Quark does.
    >
    >>
    >> There's a new windows virus|worm|trojan|malware attack every week.
    >> Windows systems are bogged down by their virus checkers, yet where are
    >> these linux threats? In your own mind, dennis@lights-on-no-one-home.
    >>

    > you do realize that you are just arguing with the Hadron Quack asshole who
    > is posting under another nym, don't you?


    I'd like to see your reasoning on this. The styles are rather different.

    Any corroborating headers?

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

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