My employer completed migration of apps to Linux - Linux

This is a discussion on My employer completed migration of apps to Linux - Linux ; Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly: > After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out >> And you're going to pretend that Linux has all the apps anyone >> wants? > > Your talking ...

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Thread: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

  1. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Erik Funkenbusch belched out


    >> And you're going to pretend that Linux has all the apps anyone
    >> wants?

    >
    > Your talking titles. We're talking tasks.


    And therein lies the key to Fuddie's (and all Windows fanboys) arguments
    .... what "people want" is a brand name not functionality, and the reason
    they "want" that brand name is because companies like Microsoft convince
    impressionable people that's what they "want", with marketing horse-****
    and planted shills like Erik. The actual integrity and worthiness of the
    software is not even a consideration ("make the sale").

    IOW, the mere fact of Erik claiming what "people want", *is* part of the
    propaganda that makes certain feeble-minded types actually think that is
    what they want. It's little more than advertising and is the main reason
    I consider any post that endorses Microsoft or their products to be spam
    (and thus filtered like any other spam, from my local feed).

    In a level playing field, people would be exposed to all the choices, as
    easily and automatically as they currently are with Windows which is pre
    -installed on nearly every PC due to Microsoft's monopoly. However, that
    would then enlighten people to the true merit of those alternatives, and
    most would then realise that the "brand name" is meaningless and some of
    those alternatives are actually better. Microsoft depends on shills like
    Erik (and the continuous "deals" with OEMs) to ensure those people never
    become so enlightened, or whenever they are then the shills come rushing
    to Microsoft's defence.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
    | the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
    | weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
    04:40:41 up 2 days, 12:23, 4 users, load average: 0.30, 0.12, 0.03

  2. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >
    > "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
    > news:1226092187.22001.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
    >
    >> Remember that a web server is essentially connectionless, even though
    >> it uses TCP/IP. each socket is closed at the transfer of a page.

    >
    > The browser opens and closes the connection and most modern browsers
    > will keep the connection open knowing that it is a big overhead to open
    > and close connections like they used to do in the dark ages.
    >
    >> So the web server and the underlying network layer do NOT maintain
    >> thousands of sockets for long periods: the number of open sockets is
    >> as many as the number of transfers going on.

    >
    > Define long, they certainly maintain them for longer than the page
    > transfer time.
    >


    They don't. Unless the browser at the other end is badly configured and
    aborts the transaction. Once its recieved its page it shuts the connection.


    > If you really wanted to make a fast web server then getting rid of the
    > user- kernel space separation would be the best start.
    > I have done applications running as STREAMS modules for this very
    > purpose and it really boosts the performance.


    No, I would buy one that already has done the work,. Its called Zeus.

  3. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >
    > "Larry Page" wrote in message
    > news:gf2hng$lqp$1@registered.motzarella.org...
    >> "dennis@home" writes:
    >>
    >>> "Larry Page" wrote in message
    >>> news:gf2ft7$vti$3@registered.motzarella.org...
    >>>> "dennis@home" writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
    >>>>> news:1226092187.22001.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Remember that a web server is essentially connectionless, even
    >>>>>> though it uses TCP/IP. each socket is closed at the transfer of a
    >>>>>> page.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The browser opens and closes the connection and most modern browsers
    >>>>> will keep the connection open knowing that it is a big overhead to
    >>>>> open and close connections like they used to do in the dark ages.
    >>>>
    >>>> No they don't. If they did most servers would saturate in no time at
    >>>> all.
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> So the web server and the underlying network layer do NOT maintain
    >>>>>> thousands of sockets for long periods: the number of open sockets is
    >>>>>> as many as the number of transfers going on.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Define long, they certainly maintain them for longer than the page
    >>>>> transfer time.
    >>>>
    >>>> They most certainly do not.
    >>>
    >>> Open a browser, load a page and then do a netstat.
    >>> Tell me how long it is before the browser connections are open before
    >>> they close then.

    >>
    >> http is a stateless and connectionless protocol.
    >>
    >> State is created using cookies and similar.
    >>
    >> https is a different kettle of fish.
    >>
    >> Most websites are http based. Most do not leave connections open.
    >>
    >> Sorry, but you are wrong I think.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I think you are just thinking in human time spans while I am thinking in
    > machine time spans.
    > They don't stay open for minutes at a time but they do stay open a lot
    > longer than a transfer requires.
    > They are open for about 9 seconds longer than they need to be on my
    > machine.
    >
    >

    That more likely a function of the way netstat interacts with the kernel.

  4. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    After takin' a swig o' grog, The Natural Philosopher belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > dennis@home wrote:
    >>
    >> Define long, they certainly maintain them for longer than the page
    >> transfer time.

    >
    > They don't. Unless the browser at the other end is badly configured and
    > aborts the transaction. Once its recieved its page it shuts the connection.


    So let's check it out for Firefox (Iceweasel

    URL: about:config

    Whoa! Never saw this before:

    This might void your warranty!
    Changing these advanced setting can be harmful to the stability,
    security, and performance of this application...
    [ ] Sow this warning next time
    Button: I'll be careful, I promise!

    Anyway:

    network.http-keep-alive is set to true, with a timeout of 300 (seconds, I
    assume).

    network.http.request.max-start-delay is set to 10 (seconds)

    The latter is about the amount of time iceweasel keeps a connection to
    Google ESTABLISHED. But changing it doesn't change the connection time.

    However, if I falsify network.http-keep-alive, the connection immediately
    goes into TIME_WAIT.

    --
    Nasrudin returned to his village from the imperial capital, and the villagers
    gathered around to hear what had passed. "At this time," said Nasrudin, "I
    only want to say that the King spoke to me." All the villagers but the
    stupidest ran off to spread the wonderful news. The remaining villager
    asked, "What did the King say to you?" "What he said -- and quite distinctly,
    for everyone to hear -- was 'Get out of my way!'" The simpleton was overjoyed;
    he had heard words actually spoken by the King, and seen the very man they
    were spoken to.

  5. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    After takin' a swig o' grog, The Natural Philosopher belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >> They are open for about 9 seconds longer than they need to be on my
    >> machine.
    >>

    > That more likely a function of the way netstat interacts with the kernel.


    After a little bit of monkeying around with Firefox settings, that seems
    plausible to me.

    It's interesting running netstat while connecting to att.com; yeesh!

    I remember there was a reasonable Linux GUI equivalent to TcpView, but I
    can't recall its name. Do you know?

    --
    Don't hit the keys so hard, it hurts.

  6. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux



    "Chris Ahlstrom" wrote in message
    news:uj7Rk.57892$kh2.15335@bignews3.bellsouth.net. ..


    > Sure he's wrong. HTTP connections are normally transitory. He claimed
    > they
    > were all permanent.


    No he did not which makes you wrong.




  7. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    After takin' a swig o' grog, dennis@home belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > "Chris Ahlstrom" wrote in message
    > news:uj7Rk.57892$kh2.15335@bignews3.bellsouth.net. ..
    >
    >> Sure he's wrong. HTTP connections are normally transitory. He claimed
    >> they were all permanent.

    >
    > No he did not which makes you wrong.


    I thought you did originally.

    My bad.

    --
    I'll say it again for the logic impaired.
    -- Larry Wall

  8. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:55:20 -0500, TJ in comp.os.linux.misc wrote:
    > dennis@home wrote:
    >> I bet snipe uses Java too, OpenOffice uses Java.
    >>
    >>

    > Ya know, I was going to bring that up, but it's been a looong time since
    > I looked into it and I didn't know for sure if it was still true.


    Geez have none of you guys heard of trimming attributions ? 8-D

    Anyway it's was my understanding that OOo doesn't require JAVA to run. I
    have in the past installed it without JAVA being required -- Of course some
    functionality was lost.

  9. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    After takin' a swig o' grog, S.D.Allen belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:55:20 -0500, TJ in comp.os.linux.misc wrote:
    >> dennis@home wrote:
    >>> I bet snipe uses Java too, OpenOffice uses Java.
    >>>

    >> Ya know, I was going to bring that up, but it's been a looong time since
    >> I looked into it and I didn't know for sure if it was still true.

    >
    > Geez have none of you guys heard of trimming attributions ? 8-D
    >
    > Anyway it's was my understanding that OOo doesn't require JAVA to run. I
    > have in the past installed it without JAVA being required -- Of course some
    > functionality was lost.


    OOo seems to use Python a fair bit, too.

    --
    There is an order of things in this universe.
    -- Apollo, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" stardate 3468.1

  10. Re: My employer completed migration of apps to Linux

    Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Larry Page belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> "dennis@home" writes:
    >>
    >>> "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
    >>> news:1226092187.22001.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
    >>>
    >>>> Remember that a web server is essentially connectionless, even
    >>>> though it uses TCP/IP. each socket is closed at the transfer of a
    >>>> page.
    >>>
    >>> The browser opens and closes the connection and most modern browsers
    >>> will keep the connection open knowing that it is a big overhead to
    >>> open and close connections like they used to do in the dark ages.

    >>
    >> No they don't. If they did most servers would saturate in no time at
    >> all.
    >>
    >>>
    >>>> So the web server and the underlying network layer do NOT maintain
    >>>> thousands of sockets for long periods: the number of open sockets is
    >>>> as many as the number of transfers going on.
    >>>
    >>> Define long, they certainly maintain them for longer than the page
    >>> transfer time.

    >>
    >> They most certainly do not.

    >
    > Don't confuse MD5 Dennis (aka "dumbass@home") with facts.


    ;-)



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